San Francisco 49ers Discussion

mcgratheoin

adrian522 wrote: »

Yeah, but its not like the 49ers are going to look at him for half a season and then decide they are going in a different direction. They are pretty much committed to at least giving him the franchise tag or more probably a $100m+ contract.

That's true (Foxtrol has a good summary of why it wasn't done in the offseason as well). I would suggest that getting him into the building and using the rest of the season as a getting to know you period scould also lower his long term cost. I'd assume (or maybe hope) that Lynch and Shanahan will be able to show him a coherent organisation with a long term plan for moving forward with Jimmy G as the QB. If they can show him that, then there's a non financial incentive to sign a deal rather than just take whoever offers the most money. Realistically he's going to get paid in the region of €20m per year wherever he goes so he'll need to weigh up whether the extra money from another bottom feeder is worth it versus staying with the 49ers.

Worst case scenario is that he thinks the 49ers are a joke of an organisation and signs for an immediate contender in the off-season (Jags/Broncos) or forces the franchise tag.

Foxtrol

Another tough week. 2 weeks ago I really saw this as a potential win coming off the early season performance in Arizona and lack of Palmer. This changed after the injuries during the Eagles game and they have only been made worse after the this weekend.

So far this year we've had the following on IR:
— Linebacker Malcom Smith (pectoral), Aug. 7
— Defensive tackle Chris Jones (calf), Sept. 2
— Defensive back Don Jones (knee), Sept. 2
— Wide receiver Aaron Burbridge (hamstring), Sept. 2
— Safety Chanceller James (knee), Sept. 2
— Guard Joshua Garnett (knee), Sept. 2
— Running back Joe Williams (ankle), Sept. 2
— Defensive lineman Ronald Blair (thumb), Sept. 3; activated off IR Nov. 4
— Defensive lineman Tank Carradine (ankle), Sept. 25
— Cornerback Asa Jackson (hamstring), Oct. 10
— Defensive lineman Arik Armstead (hand), Oct. 17
— Safety Jimmie Ward (forearm), Nov. 1
— Wide receiver Pierre Garçon (neck), Nov. 4
— Safety Jaquiski Tartt (forearm), Monday
— Tight end Cole Hikutini (knee), Monday
— Offensive tackle Garry Gilliam (knee), expected later this week

The following are injured players currently on the 53-man roster:
— Left tackle Joe Staley (eye)
— Defensive lineman Solomon Thomas (knee)
— Defensive tackle D.J. Jones (knee)
— Defensive end Aaron Lynch (calf)
— Cornerback K’Waun Williams (quadriceps)
— Fullback Kyle Juszczyk (neck)
— Linebacker Elijah Lee (knee)
— Wide receiver Trent Taylor (ribs)
— Tight end George Kittle (knee)
— Linebacker Reuben Foster (ribs, ankle)

For a team that is low on talent these injuries, the drops, and the penalties have just been a complete killer.

This week should be another one to target to get that all important win but they'll struggle fielding a full team.

Foxtrol

fire_man wrote: »

Hi,

Going to my first NFL game in 2 weeks v Giants. Don't follow game much but would like to get into it. I know both teams are rubbish this year. What is Levi stadium like for a game ?What players should I watch out for on both sides?

Thanks

Thought I posted a response to this.

Levi's is a strange one. In some ways it is a top end new stadium but some things hold it back. The biggest issue is the location, that being it is in no way in San Francisco. If you're taking public transport give yourself plenty of time, as it is a train and then a tram, and if you're driving give yourself plenty of time, as traffic and parking can be a pain. It also has a stupid design flaw that if you're sitting on the non-corporate box side (the side shown on TV) you'll end up being baked by the sun. From an Irish perspective this might sound like a good problem to have but especially early in the season it is very uncomfortable. People end up under the stands enjoying the numerous food and drink options and watching the game on the TVs.

Both teams are struggling with injuries but there are some good players from different points in their careers You'll get the chance to see Manning for the Giants, at the tail end of his QB career. Then Hyde for 49ers, who is about to go onto his first real contract and is having a career year at RB. Then two rookies Engram for the Giants and Foster for the 49ers who are already key players on their teams. There is also a small chance that you might see the debut of Jimmy Garoppolo at QB for the 49ers which would hopefully be a big day in the future of the franchise.

fire_man

Great thanks looking forward to game.

myate

Levi's is a pain to get to for sure, but more because of the time it takes, it's actually pretty straightforward on the trains & light metro.
Good thing at the moment is tickets are cheap so you can sit very close for very little! For sure do not sit on the far side in case of sunshine!! It rained when we were there, but we also sat behind the endzone about 10 rows back.

Everybody complained about Candlestick until it was gone! The grass isn't greener & all that!! For sure when you walk around the city & see AT&T Park sitting right there in the middle of everything, you wonder how much Jed York got for bringing the niners out to Santa Clara!!

adrian522

Only ever been to Candlestick but in fairness that took ages to get out too and even longer to get back from on public transport unless you were leaving games early..

myate

adrian522 wrote: »

Only ever been to Candlestick but in fairness that took ages to get out too and even longer to get back from on public transport unless you were leaving games early..

I've heard that too!! At least Levi's is easy to get to & cheap on the trains, just takes ages! But the light rail part near Mountain View to Santa Clara is good on game day, full of fans & most watching the early games on their phones so the vibe is good.

Hoping to get to Lambeau next year for the Niners game! It's one of those stadiums that's so iconic!

Foxtrol

https://twitter.com/TheFBBible/status/932434646746349568


Looking at it more seriously I think we're building reasonably well at this point for an extremely young and injury ravaged side. Before last weekend the 49ers had more than 600 rookie snaps compared to the 2nd placed side and more than 1000 snaps more than 3rd place. These would have tightened in somewhat after the bye week but the young guys are getting a lot of experience and rarely getting blown out in the process.

This weekend could be very interesting coming off a bye, with a potential start for Jimmy G, facing an injury depleted Seahawks with a short week, and some of our injured guys coming back in. I have my doubts that this week will be an upset but I can see at least one more win this season. That will give the side a good draft spot and signs of growth to attract FAs for other than the buckets of cash we have.

phatkev

Here lads, any chance ye want to take Rashard Robinson back??
regards,
a disgruntled Jets fan

Foxtrol

phatkev wrote: »

Here lads, any chance ye want to take Rashard Robinson back??
regards,
a disgruntled Jets fan

If you give us another pick

What it even more irritating is he was probably still talking ****e the whole game too

Foxtrol

3-1 record over the last four games but I'm a bit surprised that we're bookies favorites to beat the current 5th seed in the AFC this weekend.

Aside from Garoppolo the team seems to be doing much better in all facets of the game but I think the Titans will be too much.

helimachoptor

Foxtrol wrote: »

3-1 record over the last four games but I'm a bit surprised that we're bookies favorites to beat the current 5th seed in the AFC this weekend.

Aside from Garoppolo the team seems to be doing much better in all facets of the game but I think the Titans will be too much.

Our defense has been pretty good, our offense is putrid though

adrian522

Jimmy doing his thing! (Now down to the number 5 pick.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aVp_F2k6lA

Onecoolcookie

Man Garoppolo is fun to watch, he was so poised on that final drive to get into FG range, very impressive :cool:

Definitely going to pay more attention to the niners, been a big fan of Shanahan for years and it's going to be interesting to watch Garoppolo grow in this offense over the next few seasons. I've seen a lot of the big name RB's mocked to you guys in the draft, thoughts on that? Shanahan has had great success with later round RB's over the years so wouldn't be entirely sure splashing out on the likes of Barkley would be worth it.

adrian522

I think with SF dropping down the draft order Barkley will be gone by the time they pick. Far bigger needs out there obviously for SF. I'd like to see an elite corner or pass rusher but I haven't done any research on the draft class yet.

Foxtrol

Yeah, Shanahan and Turner love their RBs in the later rounds. I think Barkley will be gone but if he managed to stay around I think they might be tempted. On pure talent he would be a steal at that point and his skill set is exactly what Shanahan likes. Hyde has improved a lot this season and I like him as a player but I think they may move on from him so they'll be picking up someone in the draft or FA. Breida has been decent but I'm sure they're hoping Williams is more of what they were expecting next season.

Ideally I think they might try to drop back again and get more picks. Though we're playing a lot better there are still loads of needs. From the limited research I've done I think if we stay where we are we'd likely take one of the Edge guys or one of the OTs. Fitzpatrick is a possible but one of our few strengths is Safety and there are questions if he's better there or at CB. That could obviously change depending on how FA goes.

boccy23

Just thought I would drop in to say that Jimmy G is my new favourite non Giants player. He was brilliant again on Sunday. You have a QB going forward now for a 2. great piece of business by John Lynch.

adrian522

So apparently, we have the most Cap space in the NFL...

What would you be doing in free agency and who would you be extending and releasing?

Assuming Garoppollo is getting a big extension or the franchise tag the following are free agents:

Eric Reid
Daniel Kilgore
Carlos Hyde
Aaron Lynch
Dontae Johnson

Full list here:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/san-francisco-49ers/

I'm not sure any of the above will be brought back to be honest.

HigginsJ

adrian522 wrote: »

So apparently, we have the most Cap space in the NFL...

What would you be doing in free agency and who would you be extending and releasing?

Assuming Garoppollo is getting a big extension or the franchise tag the following are free agents:

Eric Reid
Daniel Kilgore
Carlos Hyde
Aaron Lynch
Dontae Johnson

Full list here:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/san-francisco-49ers/

I'm not sure any of the above will be brought back to be honest.

Are Reid and Hyde not very good players?

adrian522

HigginsJ wrote: »

Are Reid and Hyde not very good players?

I think at safety SF are very happy with rookie Colbert and Tartt. Reid was moved in LB for a while and then back to safety due to injuries, could go either way but I could see him wanting to test the market at least.

Hyde has played well at times, looked pedestrian at times as well. Breida has looked at least as good as him at times this season and Shanahan has had good production elsewhere from sppedier backs picked up in the late rounds so I could see Hye going as well.

Having said that I could see them both back either.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman

adrian522 wrote: »

I think at safety SF are very happy with rookie Colbert and Tartt. Reid was moved in LB for a while and then back to safety due to injuries, could go either way but I could see him wanting to test the market at least.

Hyde has played well at times, looked pedestrian at times as well. Breida has looked at least as good as him at times this season and Shanahan has had good production elsewhere from sppedier backs picked up in the late rounds so I could see Hye going as well.

Having said that I could see them both back either.

Shanahan loves a Morris/Freeman type back as well though. I think Hyde was productive enough for you over the last two years to deserve a decent contract somewhere.

Foxtrol

adrian522 wrote: »

I think at safety SF are very happy with rookie Colbert and Tartt. Reid was moved in LB for a while and then back to safety due to injuries, could go either way but I could see him wanting to test the market at least.

Hyde has played well at times, looked pedestrian at times as well. Breida has looked at least as good as him at times this season and Shanahan has had good production elsewhere from sppedier backs picked up in the late rounds so I could see Hye going as well.

Having said that I could see them both back either.

Think they'd happily take either/both of them back but they aren't going to give them big pay days or promise them specific roles. As of now Reid is more likely to return as his lead role in the protests will put off a number of teams (see Kaep) so the market won't be as kind as it will for Hyde.

Outside of those I'd like to see Kilgore, Coyle, Marsh, and maybe Tank brought back if we can get them at a reasonable price. I would hope that none would be starters on day one but they showed this year that they are good for depth.

Foxtrol

adrian522 wrote: »

So apparently, we have the most Cap space in the NFL...

What would you be doing in free agency and who would you be extending and releasing?

Assuming Garoppollo is getting a big extension or the franchise tag the following are free agents:

Eric Reid
Daniel Kilgore
Carlos Hyde
Aaron Lynch
Dontae Johnson

Full list here:

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/free-agents/san-francisco-49ers/

I'm not sure any of the above will be brought back to be honest.

Think our biggest needs (in no particular order):

Edge - Would love to get a top guy like Ansah but doubtful any hit the market so more likely to try to grab in the draft.
OL - Current guys looked much better with Jimmy G in place but still need an upgrade at the interior. Shanahan is specific on what he likes here and has Garnett working on changing his body shape while on IR. Can see them picking cheaper options on the market that fit the scheme.
CB - Witherspoon developed impressively this year and is set as a starter (presuming he doesn't regress like Robinson) and would like to see an experienced top guy like Johnson brought in, along with some further depth.
WR - After the first few games I am surprised to write this but all that is missing now is a WR1 to have a very strong WR group. I think Watkins or Robinson are possible targets.

Bonus:
RB - Obviously if Bell hits the market they should be all over him. Could also see a move for someone like Lewis. Gore would be nice for the fans but I don't think his style at this stage fits. Still have to see what Williams brings coming back from being basically redshirted this year.
TE - Some fans won't like it due to the stench of Seahawk but I think Graham as an endzone target for Jimmy G would sort a lot of the redzone issues from this season.

Foxtrol

Not an ideal start to the off season with Foster arrested. Probably a suspension to come now. Had some red flags coming into the combine but was great this year and looked to be becoming a young leader. Always a risk when young players head back home after being in structure during the season. I don't think (very much hope) we're going down the Aldon Smith direction again.

Could see us becoming more interested in Roquan Smith if he is still available in the 1st and other top targets (likes of Barkley, Nelson, Fitzpatrick) are gone. Would be a great partner for Foster for years to come and keep some level of strength in that position during any suspension.

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/22069195/san-francisco-49ers-lb-reuben-foster-arrested-alabama-marijuana-possession

jonok28

I cannot see the 49ers staying at 9 or 10 in the draft. To me they are ideally placed to be a trade partner with a team looking for a franchise QB. If I were John Lynch I would be talking to the Cardinals, the Bills and The Steelers and trying to fleece them. Especially the Bills. If they fell in love with Baker Mayfield or Josh Allen and they fell to 9 or 10 I could see them handing over their two first round picks this year for him. The 49ers have many needs ( CB1, WR1, OLB/DE, OG, C & RB to name a few) and getting as many blue chip players as possible in  the top 100  would help them compete next year.  The 9ers are gonna spend money on quality depth in Free Agency with maybe one or two big signings ( My guess Weston Richburg C & Donte Moncrief WR) and get the quality starters in the draft.

Podge_irl

Two first round picks for a 9 or 10!??

How is 9/10 ideally placed for a franchise QB? Surely that's more 1/2 territory?

Realt Dearg Sec

Podge_irl wrote: »

Two first round picks for a 9 or 10!??

How is 9/10 ideally placed for a franchise QB? Surely that's more 1/2 territory?

It's really not a great position to bargain with some team looking for a franchise QB, let alone to fleece anyone. Of the teams selecting ahead, the Browns, Giants, Colts (maybe), Broncos and Jets are all in the market for a franchise QB. The Buccs and the Bears are also ahead of the 9ers and in a better position to trade down, with the Bears quite likely to do so if the opportunity arises, given their needs.

jonok28

The Browns, Jets and Bronco's are all on the hunt for a QB. I think the Browns take Darnold, The Jets take Rosen and the Bronco's either take Josh Allen or go after Kirk Cousins in Free Agency. That leaves Baker Mayfield as the only potential Franchise QB left on the board ( I don't rate Lamar Jackson or Luke Falk at all).

So say Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield are available, I could see the Cardinals trading up to make sure they get the guy the wanted, I could even see the Dolphins cutting Tanehill loose and taking a franchise QB. The Bills have made it very clear that Tyrod Taylor is not their guy, regarding the two number 1's, RGIII got traded for three firsts, Jared Goff got traded for two 1st, two 2nds and 2 3rds and Carson Wentz got traded for 2 1sts and other picks.

If Josh Allen and Baker Mayfield were both available and the Bills thought they had there Franchise player for just two picks in the twenties then they would be getting a good deal. I also don't think there is a chance in hell that Mayfield or Allen fall to the twenties. Plus John Lynch fleeced the Bears to move down one spot and take the guy they were already going to take. When it comes to draft night all bets are off and people panic and give up more than they should.

Foxtrol

Podge_irl wrote: »

Two first round picks for a 9 or 10!??

How is 9/10 ideally placed for a franchise QB? Surely that's more 1/2 territory?

Hardly an outrageous suggestion when last year the Chiefs traded two first round picks and a third to move up to 10th and drafted Mahomes, while the Texans traded two first round picks to move to 12th and drafted Watson.

I think it works out well for the 49ers either way. With the high number of teams eyeing up QBs, it will likely be a situation where a lot of QBs go before their pick (be it by teams already ahead of them or teams trading up) resulting in some of the top talent in other positions falling to them or a situation where the QBs don’t go and teams later in the draft will be keen to move up and using last year as an example, with less needy teams and not as heralded a QB class, that price is pretty steep.

Between fleecing the Bears last year and stealing Garoppolo I have full confidence that this 49ers office will get the best deal possible in any trade.

mcgratheoin

jonok28 wrote: »

The Browns, Jets and Bronco's are all on the hunt for a QB. I think the Browns take Darnold, The Jets take Rosen and the Bronco's either take Josh Allen or go after Kirk Cousins in Free Agency.

I think that at least one of Allen/Mayfield/Rosen/Darnold will fall to 9/10 if nobody trades into the top 10.
I would suspect that the Browns go hard after Cousins or maybe whoever gets cut from the Vikings (Bradford/Keenum). If they can convince Cousins to give them a shot then they can either trade out of the first pick or get two studs at the top of the draft to really build a team. To take a left field shot at it - what are the chances that the Browns go after AJ McCarron in FA? If they don't pick up the QB they want then they're in the mix to draft highly - they may even take McCarron plus a QB no. 1 and try to engineer an Alex Smith style trade down the line.
I don't see the Colts being in the mix Realt Dearg - I don't think there's a snowball's chance in hell that McDaniels heads to Indy without being sure that Luck will be fully recovered.
Giants may figure that they can draft and develop a little lower than 2 -depends on what they believe Eli has left in the tank.
Jets & Broncos will probably take QBs but again it depends pretty heavily on FA.

That's the main takeaway for me, I see 4 teams ahead of the 49ers that will need a QB either now or in the immediate future and there are 4 main QB prospects in the draft. I think by the time it comes around at least one (if not more) of those teams will have Cousins/McCarron/Keenum/Bradford/Foles (via trade). I'm not sure that the market will be there for a kings ransom - if there is then somebody higher will cash in - probably whoever signs Cousins - but I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the 49ers trade down.

If they trade down then the big question is do the Bills or Cardinals think that the Dolphins are going to steal their QB off the board. If so then the minimum is a 1st, 2nd & 3rd from the Bills, 1st & 3rd from the Cardinals or if they can convince the Dolphins that someone is going to trade up ahead of them then they could (my favourite) get one of Miami's 4th rd picks to swap places and still pick the guy they want.

The QB issues for me prior to the draft that may affect what Lynch does with the pick

• Where does Cousins go?
• Where does McCarron go?
• What do the Vikings do with their 3 QBs and where do the unwanted ones go?
• Do the Eagles cash in on Foles?
• What do the Jags do with Bortles?
• Will the Bills trade Taylor?
• Would the Giants listen to offers for Eli (Jags/Broncos could be contenders with a decent QB)