San Francisco 49ers Discussion

Foxtrol

Itssoeasy wrote: »

49ers fans might be able to help me on this one. About five minutes ago I saw Jed York(nice bald spot btw jed) say that he owns this team(the San Francisco 49ers). Forgive me but doesn't his mother and father own the team ? And his mother is only the owner because her brother was forced to give up the team after he made a slight boo boo.

Edit: Jeds uncle is st Eddie of Youngstown btw.

His uncle owned it but it was bought using the money from his parent's real estate business. He came into a few ethical issues and he passed the team onto his sister (who had previously owned the Pittsburgh Penguins), who is Jed's mother. Eddie could have taken the team back after his league suspension but he left it with the Yorks and they later gave the team to Jed to be his play toy.

There was rumour a few weeks ago that they had enough of his failings and were going to put someone in to oversee the football side of the business (Mike Shanahan was rumoured) but from his statements yesterday it looks like he very much deems himself to be the owner (who you dont dismiss). I'd say barring him getting bored of the team he'll be there for the foreseeable future.

His whole press conference yesterday was a complete shambles, one minute apologising then dodging all blame, saying he has nothing to do with the football side of things but then stating that he is hiring the GM and Coach, continuous use of corporate speak that means absolutely nothing.

Foxtrol

I feel a bit for Chip with this sacking as he never really had a chance with the dross roster Baalke managed to assemble and dump him with. If the Gase rumours are true (likely even if not) then Baalke should have gone last season after the disaster that was Tomsula, as to bring Chip in with a pretty much lame duck GM, with a propensity to blame everyone but himself, was a recipe for disaster.

Having said that the 49ers had to move on from Chip this off season as a head coach in place would likely make the GM role a lot less attractive to suitors, potentially picking a QB with a high draft pick that could be wasted if Chip gets fired next season and the QB doesn’t suit the new coach’s plans/system, and the massive amount of cap space that will be rolled over (allegedly) might be also wasted in similar fashion if Chip was booted a year later.

It’ll be interesting to see if they go for a GM/Coach combo with both Seahawks and Patriots pairings being lined up for interviews.

adrian522

Do you want to hear something depressing?

Have a read here:

http://www.ninersnation.com/2017/1/11/14231114/tom-gamble-jed-york-49ers-gm-rumors

It's basically about the possibility that Tom Gamble gets the GM job. That's not the depressing thing though. The depressing thing is the role of Paraag Marathe and how everything still seems to revolve around him.

Paraag is an analytics guy and it seems he has a lot of influence over actual football decisions going back to the 2012 superbowl run.

Among other things, York has become a big believer in football analytics. He believes Paraag Marathe’s algorithms and how they influence personnel choices can win Super Bowls.

There is then a link to an older piece from early on in the Tomsula reign:

Marathe active game involvement is something that has been discussed in a limited manner, but has picked up a bit of steam more recently. Play calling and other football decisions – normally reserved the coaching staff – was a point of escalating tension under Nolan, Singletary and finally Jim Harbaugh’s coaching tenure. Marathe – an analytics guru and numbers cruncher – often presented mid-game suggestions for Harbaugh to go for it on fourth down, or go for two instead of kicking an extra point. At certain points, Marathe was even given a chair in the coaches booth and put in charge of replays and determining whether or not to suggest challenging questionable calls.

In the 49ers win against the Atlanta Falcons, Marathe's more aggressive statistic-driven approach seemed to work out well for the team. In that game, Coach Tomsula made a couple of gutsy decisions to go for it on fourth down, in circumstances where statistics may support taking the risk, but where most coaches tend to punt. It's unclear what role Marathe had in those decisions. Meanwhile, Falcons coach Dan Quinn’s decision to kick a field goal on a key fourth down from one yard line instead of going for the touchdown, may have cost the team the game.

I'm sure Harbaugh would have just loved getting a call from the analaytics guys mid-game telling him to go for it on 4th down or whatever.

The fact that Marathe is conducting the GM and coach interviews does not exactly inspire confidence but may help to explain the hires of Tomsula and Kelly.

adrian522

Steve Young on a bit of an epic Radio rant encapsulating the 49ers fall from grace, rise and fall again. He was asked what he thought of the hiring of John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan and the below was his response...

Bear with me. So the 49ers from ‘81 to ’98 or however you want to say it, people always say those were the glory years, great things happened, great players and Super Bowls and everything else. But fundamentally what happened, what came out of in light, I call it the enlightenment era. For football in general, especially the 49ers, 10, 15 years ahead of everyone else, it’s not just on the field, because we know what the west coast did, we know what Bill [former 49ers head coach Bill Walsh] did, but it was also an era of enlightenment on how we treat players. How we train them. We actually have them drink water. We don’t try to put them in the heat. We travel well, watch out for them.

I’ve said this on the show before, but the first meeting Bill ever had in the fall training camp was, “We’re going to integrate this team.”

And everyone thinks, well that’s racially, I’m sure that’s what he’s talking about.

And he said, “No, I’m going to integrate in every way that keeps people apart. The little cliques that people form where there’s social-economics, geographic, language, religion, what school you went to, what position you play. Everybody hangs out in their group and if you’re not careful, you’re going to have groups of people that are the team, that don’t know each other. And I’m going to integrate you guys. I’m going to integrate you in the locker room. There’s not going to be putting people in certain places; on the buses, on the planes, or in the lunchroom.”

Long before Mark Benioff made himself famous at Salesforce.com for going to the lunchroom and shooing everybody off and going to meet others to integrate, Bill was doing it back in the late eighties. So in many ways, we were forced to get to know each other. You come in as a quarterback between two-a-days and you’re having lunch and you’re just tired, and Bill would come in and say “Look, you guys gotta…” and you knew what you had to do—you picked up your tray, go over and talk to somebody else, and go meeting them.

Now, it’s not just a number or a name on the back of a jersey. You got to know them and his feeling was, if everybody is cross fertilized, then when you’re at Lambeau Field, and it’s down by four in the 4th quarter on 3rd and 10 and you got a 1:25 left, you get in that huddle and you look at each other. Because football really is unnatural and we talk about this all the time: Why do we play? We play for each other. Ride or die, you know we heard that a lot. So if you’re more integrated, there’s more connective tissue between us? You’ll play better. You’ll be better in those moments. Bill was ahead of the game, well ahead. And what the 49ers did for many many years was well ahead. It was that period of enlightenment.

So what happened was when it ended, people picked up on it. People left with that tool kit. Mike Holmgren goes to Green Bay, Andy Reid gets that tool kit, he understands intuitively what that says and what that means, he goes to Philadelphia now is in Kansas City. Pete Carroll kinda wanders around, he has the tool kit and picks up a little holistic approach in Seattle. It goes on and on. Denver: Mike leaves, takes the tool kit and immediately makes the difference for a team that was really good and wins multiple Super Bowls. As people went out and did this, we in 2000, tended to start to go away from it. We would hire Dennis Erikson. People didn’t have that rootedness in this period of enlightenment. We just didn’t. Mike Singletary epitomized it, the famous player, a linebacker from Chicago. There’s no connectiveness at all. It was hard to watch, it was hard to be a part of. Mike Nolan?

Again it’s not about the Super Bowls, or even the guys. Stop saying “Ah Steve or Joe or Jerry or anyone else” It’s not about the people. It’s about what was rooted in it. Why it happened. It’s been proven to me since the last 15 years, the teams that took it and really have embraced it have been on the upper echelon for the whole period of time.

Then Jim Harbaugh comes and Jim Harbaugh is like, I don’t want to say the bastard son, but he’s associated, he knows it, around it, he’s like a distant cousin. He’s around it enough; Stanford, Bill, you could see he understood it intuitively. He had his own take on it. And that’s why, I remember you guys telling me on the air, I was like Hallelujah. So that gets us here. Thanks for letting me build that bridge:

Because John Lynch is one of the best guys I know. Great human being. Fundamentally as a communicator, as a person, really a phenomenal guy. We’re going to make him an honorary Niner. He’s not a Niner, but it’s kind of like me at Stanford. I’ve been on the Stanford Hospital board for 10 years. I go there all the time because I think if I’m over there long enough they’ll think I replaced John Elway. They’ll actually believe I was a part of it. We’re going to bring the same thing for John [Lynch]. He’s now an honorary Niner, because John really does epitomize, and I think he learned a ton of what fell out, came out and rooted out of what the Niners did in those years, that affected what happened in Denver. And I think John Elway takes advantage of that. It feels the same way when I’m in Denver, it feels the same when I’m in Philadelphia especially in Kansas City and Green Bay and Seattle, it feels the same. It feels very much the same in New England. It comes from a different, that’s a whole interesting thing we’ll talk about some day, but it also feels very much like what they do in New England.

So to me, John is a guy, it feels like we’re getting back to that rootedness. And Kyle again, one generation away from Mike who definitely understands that and gets that rootedness as well. That’s why the fans, probably don’t realize this, but that’s why it’s been so hard. Especially people that were around him in that time period. You’re talking about a magical time, it wasn’t necessarily about the guys, or the coaches. It was about what we were doing and how unique, and again enlightened it was. It drew people in; the fans were involved we were great communicators. All that works together.

So you’ve got to hope now, that despite it not being a direct relationship — but enough that you’ve got honorary members that understand winning in the league. That rootedness is still dominant wherever it took root. And now, I feel like with this, we can replant it, and see that success.

There’s things I fear, because I know people say, “control doesn’t necessarily mean total control.” I think they are going to work together, hopefully, but that’s how it worked out in the past. We hope that does work. I think John will find connections. He’ll figure out ways to make it work, collaborate. Everybody will try to make everybody successful. The truth is, neither guy has had the job, neither guy has a clue on how to be a coach or a general manager. They’ve never done it. So there’s no way to analyze, there’s no way to say “I have an opinion.” You can’t have an opinion, they’re just warming up. They have no idea. Again, I’m sorry to talk so much, but I harken back, what makes me, I’m not going to say emotional, but emotions on what I experienced and how much I wanted to be a part of what we’re doing here. And this is as much as I’ve seen of doing that.

adrian522

So...Choose your own adventure QB game....

You need to end up with 3 QB's, 1 drafted, 1 FA and 1 3rd string roster guy!

Give it a go...

https://www.reddit.com/r/NFLadventureclub/comments/5s8l30/sf_adventure_home_page/?st=iysxs1xr&sh=4ba21187

I got an A- and ended up with Hoyer, Ponder and Trubisky!

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman

adrian522 wrote: »

So...Choose your own adventure QB game....

You need to end up with 3 QB's, 1 drafted, 1 FA and 1 3rd string roster guy!

Give it a go...

https://www.reddit.com/r/NFLadventureclub/comments/5s8l30/sf_adventure_home_page/?st=iysxs1xr&sh=4ba21187

I got an A- and ended up with Hoyer, Ponder and Trubisky!

I end up with Cousins, Ponder and Beathard and a B+ ... something wrong we these ratings!!!

adrian522

What did you give up for cousins? Presume 1st and 2nd?

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman

adrian522 wrote: »

What did you give up for cousins? Presume 1st and 2nd?

Ah I think I gave up 1st, 2nd and 1st from next year. But sure if you want a franchise QB you need to give it up to get him.

Bellicheck wanted the same for JG and I think I had to sleep with Tom Brady as well.

HigginsJ

I ended up with -

1) Blaine Gabbert
2) C.J. Beathard
3) Antonio Pipkin


I assumed I'd be able to swing a trade or sign Tyrod as a free agent, was willing to spend and early pick on Pat Mahomes but for some reason he was not available, so kinda ended up in a hole when my guys were not there.

adrian522

Yeah, it's pretty limited in its free agents and trade targets and you miss out on a lot of draft targets, it only gives you 2 options with the number 2 pick.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman

adrian522 wrote: »

Yeah, it's pretty limited in its free agents and trade targets and you miss out on a lot of draft targets, it only gives you 2 options with the number 2 pick.

Which, lets get real for a minute, isnt going to be used on a QB anyway!

Still a fun game.

adrian522

I'd say they'll be shopping that pick like crazy and hope to move down to the middle of the first round if at all possible, roster is so depleted they need all the picks they can get.

The Reservoir Dubs Anchorman

adrian522 wrote: »

I'd say they'll be shopping that pick like crazy and hope to move down to the middle of the first round if at all possible, roster is so depleted they need all the picks they can get.

depends on what Shanahan wants I suppose but I think that it would be sensible to do that if they get some decent offers for moving down.

adrian522

Time to resurrect this thread as things are likely to get crazy in Santa Clare.

The 49ers have released Quinton Patton, Torrey Smith and Antoine Bethea. Colin Kaepernick is also gone. They already had one of the largest amonts to spend in Free agency. They now likely have over $100m in cap space for 2017.

Who would you like to see them go after? Who should they avoid?

Kirk Cousins rumours are flying. What would you give up for him in terms of draft picks? How big of a contract would you give him?

IT's going to be an interesting few days for sure!

adrian522

Looks like Bethea asked to be released:

http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18848181/antoine-bethea-san-francisco-49ers-granted-release

Overthecap lists $96m in space. But once Torrey Smith is released that will go up by a further $4-7m depending on if he is a June 1st designation or not.

mcgratheoin

adrian522 wrote: »

Kirk Cousins rumours are flying. What would you give up for him in terms of draft picks?

Very little to be honest. I think the draft pieces are more important to the 49ers than reaching for a QB (even one that Shanahan loves). It goes back to my Alex Smith/Aaron Rodgers argument - I think there's a good chance that their careers would have been more or less reversed had the 49ers gone with Rodgers and the Packers got Smith. I'm not sure that Smith would ever have scaled the heights of Rodgers, but I'm pretty confident that Rodgers wouldn't have been as successful in such a dysfunctional organisation and without any help around him. I'd much rather see a draft with several foundational pieces than giving away the farm to bring Cousins (or Garoppolo) in. Both will seemingly be available next year again.

I'd also like to see the 49ers trade up into the bottom of the first from the top of the 2nd. It wouldn't cost much in draft picks and it would give the team a 5th year option in terms of getting a long term second deal done down the line.

adrian522

If the 49ers don't fleece Washington they shouldn't make the deal! Kind of agree.

http://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2017/03/07/if-49ers-dont-fleece-in-kirk-cousins-trade-theyre-doing-it-wrong/

mcgratheoin

adrian522 wrote: »

If the 49ers don't fleece Washington they shouldn't make the deal! Kind of agree.

Absolutely. The 6 year deal for management gives them more or less 3-4 years to build a contender and 1-2 years to prove they're going in the right direction. I'd have no problem with a year or two of steadily improving mediocrity. They need to decide on a long term vision for the team and draft/sign players who can slot into that particular style rather than picking up stars who don't fit a system. I'd be more concerned with signing FAs who are good leaders and experience in the locker room to set the right tone and culture for the team. I know we both kinda agree on draft strategy,
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102140484&postcount=870
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=102140484&postcount=871

the interesting thing for me will be whether Lynch and Shanahan agree, and what FAs they feel can help the rebuild.

Just as an aside though - if they genuinely believe that Cousins could be a SB calibre QB in SF for the next decade, then it's hard to put a price too high on it.

Aside no. 2 - 2018 will see Cousins, Garoppolo, Bradford and McCarron hit FA. Add a (supposedly) deeper 2018 draft at QB, then remove 1 or 2 teams from the QB needy list (who get an answer or promising project this year) and the situation looks a bit better than at present.

mcgratheoin

Interesting to see Garcon head west. Price tag looks high initially but if they can front load contracts as much as possible to take advantage of the cap space then it'll be a smart move in a few years. Hoyer on a 2 year contract gives Shanahan enough to work with not to be forced into drafting a QB next month.

adrian522

Cross Posting this from the general Free agency thread:

From what I can see the 49ers have signed or will sign:

Brian Hoyer QB ($6m per year Guaranteed, up to $9m per year with incentives)
Marquise Goodwin WR (Up to $8m over 2 years)
Pierre Garcon WR (Not confirmed yet, but seems to be SF bound).
Malcolm Smith LB (No Salary details yet, but epxected to sign).
Kyle Juszczyk FB ($5m per year, not sure how much guaranteed)

Add to that being linked with both Dontari Poe and Brandon Williams, either of which would take Johnathon Allen off the table for the number 2 pick really.

While there is a sizable "Bad teams Tax" on a lot of these deals the 49ers have cap space and they need to bring in a few players. Good moves for the most part, particularly with Hoyer and Smith I think.

Smith has experience in both Oakland and Seattle and would be a very good signing with SF moving to that 4-3 Under that Seattle run.

Foxtrol

So we have:

A proven 1,000 yard possession WR
A speed receiver/special teams threat to stretch the field
A serviceable, if uninspiring, QB to steer the ship in Year 1
A Pro-Bowl, versatile fullback
Depth and a potential starter at linebacker

I stole the above from niners nation but I think the key thing that it doesnt mention is that they all either played in or should fit the new systems very well so should be able to help the rest of the team orientate itself.

adrian522

Lets see what they do with some of the more high priced Free Agents, but certainly a promising start.

adrian522

Updated list:

Brian Hoyer
Pierre Garcon
Marquise Goodwin
Kyle Juszczyk
Malcolm Smith
Logan Paulsen
Robbie Gould
Aldrick Robinson

All signed. No flashy signings there really. Mainly adding depth to certain positions, certainly haven't broken the bank with any of these. I'm happy with how they've gone about their business so far.

Paulsen is supposed to be agreat blocking TE, Juszczyk is more of a pass catcher than a runner so be itneresting to see how he is used.

Complete overhaul of the QB and WR positions obviously, Goodwin and Garcon are upgrades on what we have. Robinson would complete with Kerely for WR3 work.

The Garcon contract is nowhere near as bad as initially reported (as usual). 5 year deal, $12m Signing bonus. $20m in guarenteed money. It will probably only go to 3 years.

Pelissero describes it as a two-year, $23 million deal with options for years three through five. Those options are $6 million for 2019, $8.9 million for 2020, and $9.6 million for 2021.

shoutman

I am a happy bunny today.

The more I hear from our new GM the more I like it - even to the point that he threw all of the praise with regards to our steal of a trade at No 2 onto Paraag.

Consummate man manager, trying to get the 49ers family working together and buying into the vision.

Nice that we look to be building a scary defense once again.

adrian522

So..

Solomon Thomas
Rueban Foster
Ahkello Witherspoon
C.J. Beathard
Saints 2nd Round pick 2018

You have to say thats some good work. I know nothing about the 2 day 2 picks. But you have to give Shanahan some leeway to pick his QB to see what he can do but it sounds like he'll be a backup or 3rd string QB. Witherspoon is getting comparisons to Sherman and you would think he would get some serous game time next season. Interesting to see what happens with Ward, if he moves to safety.

I like picking up an additional 2nd rounder for next year. Gives us ammo to move up next year for a QB if we need to or else to move back into the bottom of the second round again.

Foxtrol

Really happy with the draft. Wouldn't have thought it possible pre-draft that we'd get both Solomon and Foster on day one, lots of picks with good upside later, I have to trust Shanahan when it comes to Beathard, and extra second and third round picks for 2018 is the cherry on top.

Here's a compilation of the coverage of the 49ers picks from both ESPN and NFL feeds.

Foxtrol

Something that seems to have slipped under the radar a bit is the trade for Kapri Bibbs. He looked pretty decent last year and there should be good knowledge of him from Adam Peters being with the Broncos last year.

Nice fight for places for running backs this year with Bibbs, Williams, Hightower going against the returning Hyde, Davis, Harris. Shanahan should hopefully be able to do something with them.

Joe Mixon

Great draft for The 49ers. They completely swindled The Bears out of picks and still got their guy. Thomas is arguable a better Defensive End than Garrett. To pick up a player of the quality of Reuben Foster at the end of the first round is huge. Great additions to the defense.

Foxtrol

Potential huge turnover on the 49ers roster. The team should thankfully look very different to what we saw last year.

https://twitter.com/Eric_Branch/status/859214667314376704

The team signed a sizeable number of UDFAs and are getting praised for who they targeted (2nd highest rating on NFL.com).

Definitely happy with the first few steps towards the rebuild.

Foxtrol

49ers are doing their own show for behind the scenes of camp, somewhat similar to Hard Knocks. Presume everything that is shown will have the team blessings so nothing too scandalous but it provides a lot more insight than we'd ever have gotten under the prior regimes.

First episode is out