San Francisco 49ers Discussion

adrian522

https://twitter.com/PFF_Steve/status/901959923352907778

adrian522

More Foster....

https://twitter.com/RaidersAnalysis/status/902189829135384576

adrian522

Well that was bad, very bad. I thought the team played ok initially, with Foster looking very good.

Then Foster got injured and whenever it looked like the offense would get something going they'd get a bad drop or just broken plays due to the offensive line not being able to block anyone. Before half time it was obvious it was not going to be competitive and the second half was a struggle to watch.

I don't see much cause for optimism at all. Hoyer looked competent but he had no protection at all and Goodwin looked fast but missed easy catches.

Hyde looked good but isn't going to carry the team. I thought the defense was ok, but overall the roster is in poor shape and it's going to be another long season.

Dymo

It looked like a totally different team, not many of the old guard left. The dead stadium translated down to the team, there didn't seem to be much optimism or fire there. Foster who knows, but I don't think Garcon is going to be another Bouldin.

It's still early, and for the last 2 years people were jumping for joy after the first day wins and then nothing, maybe this team will be different.

Foxtrol

Held off a week before giving my thoughts. I slightly bought too much into the hype during the off season but there are definite signs of improvement.

Positives:
- Defense is already much improved on last year. It's questionable how good the offense of the Panther/Seahawks were, though both would have playoff expectations, and currently the defense is 4th best in the NFL for yards per play (from being the worst last season).
- Though a small sample size, Foster looks like an absolute steal. Hopefully he can get himself right as he will be a joy to watch
- The team looks to have a much better spirit than last year, going to Seattle and fighting until the end, especially the defense who must have been on their last legs with the time they spent on the field.
- OL looked to have improved between Game 1 and 2, with Tomlinson already an upgrade on Beadles after a week with the team. Trent Brown is also starting to live up to his potential. As a unit it is not near good enough but the improvements against good defenses should be acknowledged
- Carlos Hyde is showing that he can carry a team. Fingers crossed he can avoid the injuries that have plagued him in the past when given a heavy workload
- The division as a whole looks like it is in a downwards trajectory. Seahawks are the best but have serious questions about their offense, Cardinals look a shadow of their former selves and will have huge questions over their QB going forward, Rams have improved more than I thought they would but are still a poor side. If the 49ers can get themselves together over the next 2 years it should be easier to challenge for the playoffs than during the peak of the NFC West a few years ago
- Though no huge plays, the special teams work has been efficient

Negatives
- Hoyer has shown nothing so far as QB. He was supposed to come in knowing the system and be a leader but he has played horribly. He was up against two tough defenses but he should be thankful that Beathard isn't in a position to push him. If he keeps up that level of performance they should give him the Bortles treatment and keep feeding Hyde and increase Breida's workload.
- Goodwin has had terrible drops in each game. He has all the speed in the world but his hands are more reminiscent of Vance McDonald
- There seems to be a lack of guys who can make a big play on either sides of the ball. The young talent on the DL seems to be there but for all the pressure on Wilson yesterday they made few 'big plays' (though Wilson pulled out quiet a bit of Wilson magic to evade them). Buckner does look to be getting ready to potentially breakthrough on this front


Overall, the team only has 14 players from the roster of the last game of 2016, has both a new offense and defense system, and a league high of 14 rookies on the roster. It is going to take time for these guys to gel and grow within the systems.

Lynch said something that was pretty honest last week, the roster isn't good enough right now to make up for mistakes. This weekend the team made less mistakes and came very close to turning over the Seahawks away from home. The next few games are a lot less daunting than what was faced in the first two so I'm hoping to see continued improvements and maybe even a W.

adrian522

Well that BS pass interference call cost us the game.

https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/9/21/16348596/trent-taylor-pass-interference-call-49ers-vs-rams

mcgratheoin

adrian522 wrote: »

Well that BS pass interference call cost us the game.

https://www.ninersnation.com/2017/9/21/16348596/trent-taylor-pass-interference-call-49ers-vs-rams

TBH, I'm not that worried about losing close games on minor errors or poor calls this season - not as if that call is going to keep the Niners out of the post season. If they keep showing the progress that they've shown up to this point, then I look at every loss as just moving them up in the draft. Those single score losses will convert into wins with a bit more experience and maturity. Another game, another solid improvement.

adrian522

mcgratheoin wrote: »

TBH, I'm not that worried about losing close games on minor errors or poor calls this season - not as if that call is going to keep the Niners out of the post season. If they keep showing the progress that they've shown up to this point, then I look at every loss as just moving them up in the draft. Those single score losses will convert into wins with a bit more experience and maturity. Another game, another solid improvement.

I think they despretly need a win or a few wins. They could easily be 2-1 now with 2 wins over division rivals. I'd much prefer the wins over the draft position.

TimRiggins

The execution of the two point conversion from Hoyer and Trent was awful. Why throw it inside?

Its a good sign that after giving up a 15 second touchdown after we received, a missed extra point and that bullsh!t pass interference call we would have won the game. What about Garcon's catch though, Unbelievable, which the officials also blew originally.

Seen more resilience in the last 2 games then the whole of last season, Its actually enjoyable watching the Niners again.

mcgratheoin

TimRiggins wrote: »

The execution of the two point conversion from Hoyer and Trent was awful. Why throw it inside.

He was the third read in the progression apparently. Garcon and Marquise were first two. Hoyer was just late in getting through the reads and Trent was covered by the time he got there.

mcgratheoin

adrian522 wrote: »

I think they despretly need a win or a few wins. They could easily be 2-1 now with 2 wins over division rivals. I'd much prefer the wins over the draft position.

2 great opportunities coming up with the Cardinals off a long week and the Colts where they should rack up a ridiculous amount of QB pressure. I know what you're saying but in year one of the rebuild I'm much more concerned with the processes than the outcomes.

Foxtrol

Another week and another close loss. A tiny margin in each game we could easily be 3-0 in our division right now which is further ahead than even my ambitious feelings before the season (or maybe the division is worse than I thought). Overall the team is performing much better than last year.

I'm the usual feeling of being torn during rebuilding, do we want wins or a better draft place. As a fan you should always want your team to win and I think this young team needs a few Ws during the season as reward and motivation for their improvements.

Positives
- DL line is showing improvements every week (albeit against questionable OLs). Buckner is looking fantastic and Thomas has found his feet
- Taylor is looks like a steal at the end of the 5th round, already being trusted in key plays and doing great with punt returns
- OL Tackles are performing well against a number of highly touted defenses. The rest of the OL is a different story but it isn't as big of a weakness as other teams out there.

Negatives
- Hoyer is worst than I, and presumably Shanahan, expected. He isn't being helped by some drops but his throws have been erratic, ignoring open players, holding/patting the ball too long, and throwing terrible interceptions (led to 27 points against the team). He's definitely getting replaced at the end of the season and I'm warming to Cousins a bit more, if he can keep up performances like tonight and you take the riskiness of rookie QBs into account. I'd hope we see a bit of Beathard if Hoyer continues these performances.
- CB is another pain point for the team. I had high hopes for Robinson but he is a total liability - if he isn't losing his man, he's missing tackles, or giving away penalties. I'd feel a lot more comfortable moving Ward back into CB for the rest of the season and he can get his move to Safety next year when we strengthen CB.
- Worst in the NFL for Penalty count

mcgratheoin

Foxtrol wrote: »

Overall the team is performing much better than last year.

I'm the usual feeling of being torn during rebuilding, do we want wins or a better draft place. As a fan you should always want your team to win and I think this young team needs a few Ws during the season as reward and motivation for their improvements.

Good summation - a few concrete indications (Ws) of progress would be good. It'll be an interesting internal discussion around drafting vs trading for a QB as well. By my reckoning there won't be as many teams urgently in the QB market in 2018 given that it looks as if the Browns, Bears & Texans have hit on successful drafts. There may be a good chance of properly fleecing Washington - sign Cousins and then force them to trade up to draft another QB. Ignoring a trade, where would everyone think they'll go in Rd 1 with a top 5 pick.

Foxtrol

mcgratheoin wrote: »

Good summation - a few concrete indications (Ws) of progress would be good. It'll be an interesting internal discussion around drafting vs trading for a QB as well. By my reckoning there won't be as many teams urgently in the QB market in 2018 given that it looks as if the Browns, Bears & Texans have hit on successful drafts. There may be a good chance of properly fleecing Washington - sign Cousins and then force them to trade up to draft another QB. Ignoring a trade, where would everyone think they'll go in Rd 1 with a top 5 pick.

I think there'll be a fair few looking for a QB - Jets, Jaguars, Cardinals, Browns (don't think they're totally sold on Kizer if they have a high pick again), Washington (if they lose Cousins), and possibly even the Giants.

I haven't done too much research on the draft yet but I think if we're a top 3, maybe even down to 5, and don't go for a QB we'll do our best to trade back again for picks. I think there should be teams eager to move up for either QB or for Barkley who we can work with. I'd actually love to take him but we have too many other needs and if Hyde can stay healthy this season we should do all we can to keep him given his performances.

We've a lot of areas that can be improved but aside from QB I think the biggest gaping holes right now (in no particular order) are; CB, interior OL, Edge rusher, and a WR1. From the little I've seen out of those needs the only player that would interest me that high in the draft would be Arden Key. Moving down would get us picks to fill more holes and get value in the other areas of need.

Foxtrol

https://twitter.com/adamschefter/status/918912127284412417

Schefter reporting that we're shopping around Bowman. Looks like he has lost a step from his injuries but is a clear leader in the locker room that Foster and all the young guys could learn from. What would people hope to get for him?

adrian522

Won't get more than a conditional 5th or 6th round pick I imagine. I guess they are hoping that Foster would step into that role if Bowman is traded.

madalig12

They released Bowman....wtf??

Foxtrol

All for being nice to long term players but this seems crazy.

adrian522

Foster is the future and to be honest Bowman won't be around by the time we are good again (if that ever happens) and if he wanted to go to a better team I've no problem with it.

If they just cut him though it doesn't make any sense.

adrian522

Carlo Hyde may be next out the door...

https://twitter.com/AllbrightNFL/status/919284331301961728

adrian522

Ugh.

fire_man

Hi,

Going to my first NFL game in 2 weeks v Giants. Don't follow game much but would like to get into it. I know both teams are rubbish this year. What is Levi stadium like for a game ?What players should I watch out for on both sides?

Thanks

TimRiggins

Niners trade a second rounder for Jimmy Garapollo, Wow

mcgratheoin

TimRiggins wrote: »

Niners trade a second rounder for Jimmy Garapollo, Wow

Surprised at this but it could be a good move. Gives them 8 games to really kick the tires on him and see what he has to offer while it's a hefty discount on what they would have had to pony up before the season started - Browns offered a "2nd plus change" and were rebuffed. From a NE perspective they still get their high 2nd round pick for him.

adrian522

I don't like this move, the guy is a free agent in a half a season. I know they probably have a long term deal worked out but I'm not all that convinced by Garappolo as a QB, and I've never seen the Patriots trade away someone they should have kept.

He looked good playing for the Patriots last year but our offensive line would make a composite of Brady Montana and Rodgers look bad. I don't see the sense in this. Why not wait until the offseason. The patriots aren't going to give him $100m or franchise him so he could have been signed then without giving up a pick.

The season is lost anyway so I'm not really seeing the benefit of giving up the 32 or 33 pick. Hope it works out but I still think we will be back looking for a QB in 2 years time.

Foxtrol

adrian522 wrote: »

I don't like this move, the guy is a free agent in a half a season. I know they probably have a long term deal worked out but I'm not all that convinced by Garappolo as a QB, and I've never seen the Patriots trade away someone they should have kept.

He looked good playing for the Patriots last year but our offensive line would make a composite of Brady Montana and Rodgers look bad. I don't see the sense in this. Why not wait until the offseason. The patriots aren't going to give him $100m or franchise him so he could have been signed then without giving up a pick.

The season is lost anyway so I'm not really seeing the benefit of giving up the 32 or 33 pick. Hope it works out but I still think we will be back looking for a QB in 2 years time.

I think having half a season to see what they have with him is better than ending up in a bidding war during free agency when you worked with him (see Texans & Osweiler).

High second round pick could be used elsewhere but you’d expect any QB drafted at that point to need a lot of work and the hope would be that Jimmy isn’t going to need as much (he was drafted late 2nd a few years ago). Obviously a newly drafted QB would be cheaper but money isn’t an issue for the next few years anyway.

I don’t buy the Patriots never trade away someone they should have kept line, as you pretty much said yourself they had no choice this time. They either needed to boot Brady or let Jimmy go. Brady doesn’t look to be slowing down so I don’t see it as too much of an indictment on Jimmy that Brady is seen as a better option right now. From the last off season the Patriots moves seem to have shifted to more of a win now focus and Brady would be that guy.

adrian522

Yeah, but its not like the 49ers are going to look at him for half a season and then decide they are going in a different direction. They are pretty much committed to at least giving him the franchise tag or more probably a $100m+ contract.

My point is they could have done that in the off season anyway. The 49ers have so many holes that they need all the draft picks they can get. And yes, a 2nd round pick is a low price to pay for franchise QB (if he turns out to be that) but they still could have signed him without the need to give up a pick.

I mean why not make this deal last offseason?

Foxtrol

adrian522 wrote: »

Yeah, but its not like the 49ers are going to look at him for half a season and then decide they are going in a different direction. They are pretty much committed to at least giving him the franchise tag or more probably a $100m+ contract.

My point is they could have done that in the off season anyway. The 49ers have so many holes that they need all the draft picks they can get. And yes, a 2nd round pick is a low price to pay for franchise QB (if he turns out to be that) but they still could have signed him without the need to give up a pick.

I mean why not make this deal last offseason?

From reports this deal wasn’t available last offseason at this price. Patriots were trying to work out a way to keep him and if they were going to part with him they wanted more than a 2nd.

In an ideal world we could have gotten him next off season for the same money we make a deal with him now but much more likely is that we either lose him to another team or we end up in a bidding war and well overpay for someone the coaches haven’t gotten a chance to work with.

I agree they are unlikely to cut ties completely if he performs poorly this season but they’ve a few options if he does. Make a deal with him at a cheaper contract given his performance and hope he improves after a full preseason or draft the following year if not. If he doesn’t accept a cheaper contract then franchise him with the same goal of him improving or drafting later. Franchise him and draft or acquire through FA a QB and then try to trade him to one of the QB needy teams.

Another positive from this is the exposure the opposite way, where Jimmy will have time to get used to Shanahan, his system, his new team mates, the set-up for half a season so he isn’t coming in completely cold next year. This season is gone but this should allow him to get through some of the learning curve (Shanahan system is known to be pretty detailed) so he is in a better position to start strong next season when the team as a whole should be in a better place to win.

Foxtrol

Robinson gone to the Jets for a 5th.

After performances last year I had high hopes from him but he has been a disaster this season. I don't mind players talking but he talked way too much for a guy who was either beaten or giving away penalties on a consistent basis (highest in the league).

Decent punt by the Jets, a change of scenery might do him good.

phatkev

Foxtrol wrote: »

Robinson gone to the Jets for a 5th.

After performances last year I had high hopes from him but he has been a disaster this season. I don't mind players talking but he talked way too much for a guy who was either beaten or giving away penalties on a consistent basis (highest in the league).

Decent punt by the Jets, a change of scenery might do him good.

He'll fit right in with the Jets so