orange provocation

alastair

karma_ wrote: »

Aren't we the clever one.

At least I can read. Admittedly it's a pretty low bar.

Cú Giobach

alastair wrote: »

Nonsense - it's entirely relevant. If you're telling me that as an unassuming apolitical Tryone Catholic parent, you'd sent your kid out to compete for the Billy Wright medal - you're a liar. You'd know exactly how welcome you were in that fold. Flip that around and let's talk Protestant family and the Martin McCaughey medal - same story. Different blinders.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79750901&postcount=592

Happyman42

alastair wrote: »

Nonsense - it's entirely relevant. If you're telling me that as an unassuming apolitical Tryone Catholic parent, you'd sent your kid out to compete for the Billy Wright medal - you're a liar. You'd know exactly how welcome you were in that fold. Flip that around and let's talk Protestant family and the Martin McCaughey medal - same story. Different blinders.

You do understand what the word 'sectarian' means Alastair?

alastair

Happyman42 wrote: »

You do understand what the word 'sectarian' means Alastair?

Clearly better than you do - would you send your kid out to compete for the Billy Wright cup then?

Happyman42

alastair wrote: »

Clearly better than you do - would you send your kid out to compete for the Billy Wright cup then?

Probably not, because he allegedly (according to the PSNI) directed 20 SECTARIAN killings. And he was the leader of the LVF an overtly, sectarian organisation.

billybudd

alastair wrote: »

Clearly better than you do - would you send your kid out to compete for the Billy Wright cup then?

Billy was a fine GAA player you know.

alastair

Happyman42 wrote: »

Probably not, because he allegedly (according to the PSNI) directed 20 SECTARIAN killings. And he was the leader of the LVF an overtly, sectarian organisation.

Whereas there's no stain of sectarianism on the back of the IRA or INLA, eh?

karma_

alastair wrote: »

At least I can read. Admittedly it's a pretty low bar.

Captain Condescension rides again.

alastair

karma_ wrote: »

Captain Condescension rides again.

You reap what you sow.

Happyman42

alastair wrote: »

Whereas there's no stain of sectarianism on the back of the IRA or INLA, eh?

Are you actually gonna make a point in relation to the OO or just engage in whataboutery?
How does pointing to sectarian incidents elsewhere excuse the continued 'sectarianism and provocation by the OO?
You have shown yourself, how other organisations like the GAA deal with racist elements in their ranks and at their events.
Can you show us the steps the OO have taken to rid itself of the bigots, how it has changed it modus operandi and how it has tempered it's rethoric?

If you aren't going to address these issues then leave the thread alone.

Cú Giobach

Happyman42 wrote: »

You have shown yourself, how other organisations like the GAA deal with racist elements in their ranks and at their events.

That was funny.

alastair

Happyman42 wrote: »

Are you actually gonna make a point in relation to the OO or just engage in whataboutery?
How does pointing to sectarian incidents elsewhere excuse the continued 'sectarianism and provocation by the OO?
You have shown yourself, how other organisations like the GAA deal with racist elements in their ranks and at their events.
Can you show us the steps the OO have taken to rid itself of the bigots, how it has changed it modus operandi and how it has tempered it's rethoric?

If you aren't going to address these issues then leave the thread alone.

Maybe you've missed it - but this thread is chocablock with points I've made with regard to the OO and their sectarianism (more blinders?). The point about the whataboutery is that there seems to be something of a blinder in relation to the pervasiveness of sectarianism beyond the OO.

I'd be rather more impressed with the GAA if they weren't a wet day out of the sort of nonsense the bans encouraged and weren't currently sticking terrorists (not known for their outreach potential) on kiddies medals.

Cú Giobach

alastair wrote: »

I'd be rather more impressed with the GAA if they weren't a wet day out of the sort of nonsense the bans encouraged and weren't currently sticking terrorists (not known for their outreach potential) on kiddies medals.

Then why don't you just stick to saying that, instead of spouting nonsense about them just because you don't like them.

All LVF are kiddie fiddlers. I have no proof of that statement, the facts show otherwise, but I don't like them so I will say it, a la alastair.

alastair

Cú Giobach wrote: »

Then why don't you just stick to saying that, instead of spouting nonsense about them just because you don't like them.

Who says I don't like them? They've just got a road left to travel before I'd consider them non-sectarian. My belief is based on the facts - not any fantasy.

Cú Giobach

alastair wrote: »

Who says I don't like them? They've just got a road left to travel before I'd consider them non-sectarian. My belief is based on the facts - not any fantasy.

ROFL :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79750901&postcount=592

Happyman42

alastair wrote: »

Maybe you've missed it - but this thread is chocablock with points I've made with regard to the OO and their sectarianism (more blinders?). The point about the whataboutery is that there seems to be something of a blinder in relation to the pervasiveness of sectarianism beyond the OO.

I'd be rather more impressed with the GAA if they weren't a wet day out of the sort of nonsense the bans encouraged and weren't currently sticking terrorists (not known for their outreach potential) on kiddies medals.

The GAA are answerable like everyone else for promoting sectarianism and your point may or may not be valid, in a thread about sectarianism in general. It never was and isn't currently a 'sectarian' organisation with 'sectarianism' enshrined in it's ideologies and constitution, despite having been targeted, harrassed, provoked and havng members killed by the official institutions of the British government, (the RUC and the British army). Comparisons to the OO's inherent sectarian nature are meaningless.
You have criticised the neanderthal public bigotry on show during marching season but you have not addressed where this springs from, and where it is fostered and encouraged, despite having it pointed out to you numerous times. You have continually deflected the thread in a pathetic attempt to avoid the real issues. Man up.

getz

i am sure this flying the flag thing in northern ireland has anything to do in the north with people being british or irish,is more about catholic and protestant,in the northern ireland life and times a survey reveals that 73% of the population now want to stay in the UK.so its on the up,maybe its something to do with economic and social problems,if in the future the irish economy pics up that could change again.

alastair

Happyman42 wrote: »

The GAA are answerable like everyone else for promoting sectarianism and your point may or may not be valid, in a thread about sectarianism in general. It never was and isn't currently a 'sectarian' organisation with 'sectarianism' enshrined in it's ideologies and constitution

That's kind of like a 'best non swimmer' prize - but if your point is that it's not as sectarian as the OO - then sure - but it does have the distraction of sports in the mix - whereas the OO is 100% 24/7/365 about religious segregation. Between the sports club and the reactionary religious group who do you think is going to come out tops in the sectarian charts?

Here's the thing though. I'm pretty sure that I'm bound to encounter religious discrimination in the OO, Black Preceptory, Apprentice Boys, Opus Dei, Nation of Islam, Knights of Columbus, and any number of religious clubs - that's kind of what they do. If I just want to chase a ball around a field, I really shouldn't have to deal with the same guff - or even a watery version of same.

As to 'manning up'. I'm not that macho - sorry.

Happyman42

alastair wrote: »

That's kind of like a 'best non swimmer' prize - but if your point is that it's not as sectarian as the OO - then sure - but it does have the distraction of sports in the mix - whereas the OO is 100% 24/7/365 about religious segregation. Between the sports club and the reactionary religious group who do you think is going to come out tops in the sectarian charts?

Here's the thing though. I'm pretty sure that I'm bound to encounter religious discrimination in the OO, Black Preceptory, Apprentice Boys, Opus Dei, Nation of Islam, Knights of Columbus, and any number of religious clubs - that's kind of what they do. If I just want to chase a ball around a field, I really shouldn't have to deal with the same guff - or even a watery version of same.

As to 'manning up'. I'm not that macho - sorry.

Again you are confused. Stand up and be a man, nobody is requiring you to be macho.

And again...'sectarianism' is not and never was enshrined in the ideology and constitution of the GAA'.

Should an organisation with sectarianism enshined in it's ideology be supported by officialdom and the law of the land? Yes or no.

K-9

Amazing that they can have several marches in Donegal and never a bother, shows the differences in mentalities I suppose.

As for the GAA ban on other sports, initially it was aimed at soccer but ended up being about competition from other sports. It was removed around 1971. These days some managers frown on players playing both Gaelic and Hurling, never mind soccer or rugby.

alastair

Happyman42 wrote: »

Should an organisation with sectarianism enshined in it's ideology be supported by officialdom and the law of the land? Yes or no.

If it doesn't rain on anyone elses parade or do anything illegal - sure. It's not like the exclusionist religious nature of the organisation is going to sneak up on anyone. I think the model that's been applied to/by the Apprentice Boys in Derry - particularly the Apprentice Boy's museum, offer pointers for the future.

Happyman42

alastair wrote: »

If it doesn't rain on anyone elses parade or do anything illegal - sure. It's not like the exclusionist religious nature of the organisation is going to sneak up on anyone. I think the model that's been applied to the Apprentice Boys in Derry - particularly the Apprentice Boy's museum, offer pointers for the future.

Well there you have it.
By accepting that they are a sectarian organisation and by endorsing the activity of this organisation then it follows that you support sectarianism. Which places you firmly among the neanderthals. Proceed to Here

alastair

Happyman42 wrote: »

Well there you have it.
By accepting that they are a sectarian organisation and by endorsing the activity of this organisation then it follows that you support sectarianism. Which places you firmly among the neanderthals. Proceed to Here

Glad to see the lengths you're prepared to go in the name of cultural parity of esteem. Once again - awfully orangey.

Happyman42

alastair wrote: »

Glad to see the lengths you're prepared to go in the name of cultural parity of esteem. Once again - awfully orangey.

I refuse to give repect to sectarian organisations, they have no place in any society I want to live in.
After a long battle, Nationalists and Unionists finally have the chance of 'parity of esteem', despite the efforts of the backward looking and foot dragging organisations and their cowardly supporters.
I'm done debating the subject with you, you have finally made your position clear.

alastair

Happyman42 wrote: »

I'm done debating the subject with you, you have finally made your position clear.

I made my position clear from the get-go.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79716228&postcount=45

Happyman42

alastair wrote: »

I made my position clear from the get-go.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=79716228&postcount=45

Nice, desperate try. But here is what you finally said, loud and clear.

Should an organisation with sectarianism enshined in it's ideology be supported by officialdom and the law of the land? Yes or no.

If it doesn't rain on anyone elses parade or do anything illegal - sure.

Just keeping you honest. Good luck.

alastair

Happyman42 wrote: »

Nice, desperate try. But here is what you finally said, loud and clear.
Just keeping you honest. Good luck.

And from the start of this whole thing:

I've no blinkers as to the motivations of many involved, but - parity of esteem and all that - if they really want to do this, and it's undoubtedly part of their cultural heritage, then they should be let knock themselves out - even in Dublin if that's what floats their boat.

Spot any difference?

Happyman42

alastair wrote: »

And from the start of this whole thing:

Spot any difference?

You where NOT saying sectarianism is ok and justified, which is what you where continually being asked about.
Stop wriggling and stand up for what you believe in, man! :rolleyes:

getz

Happyman42 wrote: »

Again you are confused. Stand up and be a man, nobody is requiring you to be macho.

And again...'sectarianism' is not and never was enshrined in the ideology and constitution of the GAA'.

Should an organisation with sectarianism enshined in it's ideology be supported by officialdom and the law of the land? Yes or no.

i think you are blind to the obvious,people who try to suggest the GAA is;not sectarian; well it plainly is ,the symbols it uses,the word eire on many of their badges,could you imagine the word british being used on irish football badges in the republic. its constitution and various other things are plainly exclusive,it does not matter whether this is deliberate[although it is ],yes protestants can play GAA but only if they are prepared to tolerate nationism,in other words,only on certain peoples own terms.

Happyman42

getz wrote: »

i think you are blind to the obvious,people who try to suggest the GAA is;not sectarian; well it plainly is ,the symbols it uses,the word eire on many of their badges,could you imagine the word british being used on irish football badges in the republic. its constitution and various other things are plainly exclusive,it does not matter whether this is deliberate[although it is ],yes protestants can play GAA but only if they are prepared to tolerate nationism,in other words,only on certain peoples own terms.

Do me a favour and google the word 'sectarian'. :rolleyes: