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Noonan Reveals UL Plans for Opera Centre

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    #62
    Cpt_Blackbeard
    Registered Users Posts: 2,456 ✭✭✭Cpt_Blackbeard


    ninty9er wrote: »
    Can someone tell me why the arrival of approx. 1,000 UL students is expected to have a different effect to the extra 2,700 that Mary I now brings compared to 20 years ago when it was a college with 300 students?

    Mary I is not centrally located in the city. With the current state of the city, I'd guess that many students would rather head to the Cresent - which isn't much more of a trek for many.

    The proposed idea is to get a UL presence in the middle of the city centre. Thiswould likely lead to improvements in the Arthur's Quay and Cruises St. areas. A development in the place of the proposed Opera Centre would lead to greater first impressions of the city from all visitors from both the Corbally-Ardnacrusha and Castletroy directions.

    Derek, I can understand much of your worries surrounding the proposition, but I'd hazard a guess that the possibility of removed funding for your pie-in-the-sky student centre is further colouring your opinion.


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    #63
    zulutango
    Registered Users Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭zulutango


    ninty9er wrote: »
    They can experience the difference when they get here, but the simple economics of it is UL will cost itself enrolements, specifically expensive non-EU ones, and therefore money by having programmes offered in the city

    UL is a fine institution and I dare say they understand the business of attracting enrolements far more than you do. What makes you think they're making a wrong move now, when they haven't made such errors of judgement in the past?


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    #64
    zulutango
    Registered Users Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭zulutango


    ninty9er wrote: »
    Can someone tell me why the arrival of approx. 1,000 UL students is expected to have a different effect to the extra 2,700 that Mary I now brings compared to 20 years ago when it was a college with 300 students?

    Who's saying it will have a different effect?

    In any case there are a few things worth pointing out. The UL students will be located in the very heart of the city rather than on the edge of it. That's not to say the Mary I students don't engage with the city. They do to an extent, but the kind of student that attends Mary I is more likely to sit at home saying the rosary in the evenings than going into the city and having fun. :D


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    #65
    zulutango
    Registered Users Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭zulutango


    ninty9er wrote: »
    As signified by
    http://www.ul.ie/news-centre/news/university-of-limerick-listed-as-one-of-the-worlds-top-100-young-universiti/

    http://www.ul.ie/news-centre/features/ul-most-popular-university-in-ireland/

    ...and to really stick the nail in your argument's coffin:

    http://www.ul.ie/news-centre/news/ul-ranked-number-1-in-ireland-by-international-student-survey/


    UL is appealing, specifically to parents, because they can with 100% certainty know that their kids will never of necessity have to set foot inside the city boundary of a city with one of the worst reputations (don't get me started on that) in Europe, which is a consistent concern of students and parents coming from North America.

    That really is a very simplistic argument!

    There are many appealing features of UL. It's the best university in Ireland, in my opinion, but to say that it would be less appealing because it had a city centre facility is really just nonsense.


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    #66
    Raiser
    Registered Users Posts: 4,929 ✭✭✭Raiser


    ninty9er wrote: »
    Can someone tell me why the arrival of approx. 1,000 UL students is expected to have a different effect to the extra 2,700 that Mary I now brings compared to 20 years ago when it was a college with 300 students?

    Bah - You just don't get the economics of the golden goose student!

    - These 1,000 UL Geese students are aimed right at the heart of Limericks mismanaged, neglected, derelict core - This means that once they are forced into the warzone area they are going to spend so much on daft rents, absurdly high parking fees, €6 baps, €7 cappuccinos, A4 pads and packets of monster munch that the ridiculously high rates issue will cease to bother to 2 remaining retailers who are yet to be put out of business by the Morons who are abusing running our City.

    They will also be pre-trained in several martial arts meaning that the absolute lack of a functioning police force will not trouble them as they merrily deal with vicious attacks on their person and break-ins to their homestead.

    The really clever bit is that seemingly this is all easily achievable doing nothing at all to address the gaping hole in the hull that has been sinking Limerick for the last decade - Its not so much a case of rearranging the chairs on the Titanic but more so tipping all but one of the chairs into bonfire before picking ones nose and settling down for a lazy cognac and cigars at the taxpayers expense.


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    #67
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    zulutango wrote: »
    UL is a fine institution and I dare say they understand the business of attracting enrolements far more than you do. What makes you think they're making a wrong move now, when they haven't made such errors of judgement in the past?

    It's a well established fact that malcontents on the internet actually know more about, and would be better at, running the world than those who actually go and achieve things (and risk failure by doing so).


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    #68
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    Cpt_Blackbeard wrote: »
    Derek, I can understand much of your worries surrounding the proposition, but I'd hazard a guess that the possibility of removed funding for your pie-in-the-sky student centre is further colouring your opinion.
    "My" pie-in-the-sky student centre is much more important to delivering on the infrastructural deficit of UL. It'll be at planning stage before this time next year too, pending a referendum where the students agree to pay for it.
    zulutango wrote: »
    UL is a fine institution and I dare say they understand the business of attracting enrolements far more than you do. What makes you think they're making a wrong move now, when they haven't made such errors of judgement in the past?
    Because up to last week I was a member of UL's Orientation and Marketing Committees and sat on the Student Recruitment Group of this year's Strategic Marketing Review Committee.

    How about you, oh wise one?


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    #69
    zulutango
    Registered Users Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭zulutango


    ninty9er wrote: »
    Because up to last week I was a member of UL's Orientation and Marketing Committees and sat on the Student Recruitment Group of this year's Strategic Marketing Review Committee.

    How about you, oh wise one?

    I'm not the one claiming to know better than UL. You are. And, by the way, sitting on those committees for a year doesn't mean that you know better than UL.


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    #70
    kilburn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭kilburn


    :rolleyes:


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    #71
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    zulutango wrote: »
    ninty9er wrote: »
    Because up to last week I was a member of UL's Orientation and Marketing Committees and sat on the Student Recruitment Group of this year's Strategic Marketing Review Committee.

    How about you, oh wise one?

    I'm not the one claiming to know better than UL. You are. And, by the way, sitting on those committees for a year doesn't mean that you know better than UL.
    I know more than most on the issue, certainly sitting on many more committees and having more interaction across the University than most others within it.

    Please define what you mean when you say 'UL' in this case??

    In terms of marketing, the committee I was on was 'UL'.

    I'm not claiming to know better than UL, I'm claiming to know better than Don, and I've asserted that to him, face to face, more than once.


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    #72
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    ninty9er wrote: »

    I'm not claiming to know better than UL, I'm claiming to know better than Don, and I've asserted that to him, face to face, more than once.

    And you know better based on?


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    #73
    flutered
    Registered Users Posts: 6,679 ✭✭✭flutered


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    And you know better based on?
    all his posts about finna fail, go check them out.


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    #74
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    flutered wrote: »
    all his posts about finna fail, go check them out.

    I guess any man who backs Bertie and Cowan has special insight alright.


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    #75
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,872 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    Mod Note: Let's not turn this debate into a petty personal argument, please.


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    #76
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    ninty9er wrote: »

    I'm not claiming to know better than UL, I'm claiming to know better than Don, and I've asserted that to him, face to face, more than once.

    And you know better based on?
    Talking to more students and staff, the constituent groups who would be affected.


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    #77
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    ninty9er wrote: »
    Talking to more students and staff, the constituent groups who would be affected.

    What percentage of each would you say you addressed?


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    #78
    Raiser
    Registered Users Posts: 4,929 ✭✭✭Raiser


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    It's a well established fact that malcontents on the internet actually know more about, and would be better at, running the world than those who actually go and achieve things (and risk failure by doing so).

    Was a little dubious after reading this......
    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    What percentage of each would you say you addressed?

    ........But you lost 97.12% of your audience when this became your last refuge :rolleyes:


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    #79
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    Raiser wrote: »
    Was a little dubious after reading this......



    ........But you lost 97.12% of your audience when this became your last refuge :rolleyes:

    I just think it's more likely that UL have put more thought into this than having a few chats on campus.


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    #80
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    Raiser wrote: »
    Was a little dubious after reading this......



    ........But you lost 97.12% of your audience when this became your last refuge :rolleyes:

    I just think it's more likely that UL have put more thought into this than having a few chats on campus.

    The only person of note to have expressed any thought on the matter is the President, who does not operate in a vacuum.

    There is no rational reason whatsoever to fragment the most open and integrated university campus in the country.


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    #81
    kilburn
    Registered Users Posts: 3,912 ✭✭✭kilburn


    typical Limerick forum something good planned for the city and all the whingers come out again :( 6 pages of arguments again


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    #82
    Amazotheamazing
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,048 ✭✭✭Amazotheamazing


    ninty9er wrote: »
    The only person of note to have expressed any thought on the matter is the President, who does not operate in a vacuum.

    There is no rational reason whatsoever to fragment the most open and integrated university campus in the country.

    Yeah, and yet somehow he ended up running a university, bizarre.


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    #83
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    Amazotheamazing wrote: »
    ninty9er wrote: »
    The only person of note to have expressed any thought on the matter is the President, who does not operate in a vacuum.

    There is no rational reason whatsoever to fragment the most open and integrated university campus in the country.

    Yeah, and yet somehow he ended up running a university, bizarre.
    Cos the people who end up running things in this country have a track record in good decision making, yeah?

    I agree with the man in a lot of things, but he's far removed from the daily routine of the average person who would be impacted.


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    #84
    Johnny_BravoIII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 308 ✭✭Johnny_BravoIII


    UL is appealing, specifically to parents, because they can with 100% certainty know that their kids will never of necessity have to set foot inside the city boundary of a city with one of the worst reputations (don't get me started on that) in Europe

    I'm a non-limerick native, working and living in the city centre. Pedalling "war-zone" analogies is nonsense considering the actual reality of city centre living.
    I'm not claiming to know better than UL, I'm claiming to know better than Don,

    Seriously?
    Students Unions are a nice vechicle for facilitating student dialogue.

    Day-to-day issues .....hand-out condoms, print Tee-shirts, run events in the college bar, keep the student facilities are up to scratch.........fluffy stuff.

    What in the name of holy tablet dropping Moses would the students union know about the long-term strategic planning required for running a monster organisation the size of UL?


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    #85
    zulutango
    Registered Users Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭zulutango


    I think ninty9er has a fairly bloated sense of his own importance!


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    #86
    Insect Overlord
    Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 30,872 Mod ✭✭✭✭Insect Overlord


    kilburn wrote: »
    typical Limerick forum something good planned for the city and all the whingers come out again :( 6 pages of arguments again

    That's bullshit. This is one of the most interesting threads we've had in ages. People on both sides of the debate are making some really good arguments, highlighting potential advantages, disadvantages and barriers to both Limerick City and the University of Limerick. Constructive criticism is not the same as whigers/begrudgers/petty squabbling.

    This is a discussion forum. The emphasis should be on threads like this, with good, reasoned debate. The day this forum becomes nothing more than a place for patting people on the back for coming up with one interesting idea is the day I stop using it.


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    #87
    Cossax
    Registered Users Posts: 2,055 ✭✭✭Cossax


    zulutango wrote: »
    I think ninty9er has a fairly bloated sense of his own importance!

    Yeah, what would the ULSU president know about how this might affect the average UL student. :rolleyes:


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    #88
    zulutango
    Registered Users Posts: 3,903 ✭✭✭zulutango


    Cossax wrote: »
    Yeah, what would the ULSU president know about how this might affect the average UL student. :rolleyes:

    Breathtaking arrogance.
    Ninty9er wrote:
    I'm not claiming to know better than UL, I'm claiming to know better than Don,


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    #89
    ninty9er
    Registered Users Posts: 9,366 ✭✭✭ninty9er


    Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »
    Seriously?
    Students Unions are a nice vechicle for facilitating student dialogue.

    Day-to-day issues .....hand-out condoms, print Tee-shirts, run events in the college bar, keep the student facilities are up to scratch.........fluffy stuff.

    What in the name of holy tablet dropping Moses would the students union know about the long-term strategic planning required for running a monster organisation the size of UL?

    You need to spend a week as an SU officer mate. You have no idea. Ents is done by staff, condoms are available at the front desk, T-shirts the same.

    There are about 3 high level committees in the whole institution there isn's an SU officer on.

    I'm no longer the SU President btw.


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    #90
    Johnny_BravoIII
    Closed Accounts Posts: 308 ✭✭Johnny_BravoIII


    Ok to tackle this issue from another angle.........

    For me the question is:
    Does UL as an organisation have a responsibility to positively contribute to the future health of Limerick City?

    I think we can all agree that a healthy city centre is vital to the long-term general health of the city.

    Any continued degradation of the city centre could eventually have negative implications for the universtiy anyways, so it's a no-brainer.

    So, UL can either decide to cut all links with the city center, adopt a siege mentality and build it's walls higher; or; it can decide to intervene using whichever tools are available at its disposal.


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    #91
    Kess73
    Registered Users Posts: 25,560 ✭✭✭✭Kess73


    Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »
    Ok to tackle this issue from another angle.........

    For me the question is:
    Does UL as an organisation have a responsibility to positively contribute to the future health of Limerick City?

    I think we can all agree that a healthy city centre is vital to the long-term general health of the city.

    Any continued degradation of the city centre could eventually have negative implications for the universtiy anyways, so it's a no-brainer.

    So, UL can either decide to cut all links with the city center, adopt a siege mentality and build it's walls higher; or; it can decide to intervene using whichever tools are available at its disposal.




    UL's responsibility is to UL and it's staff and students. It as an organisation has no responsibility to Limerick city centre's health no more than Mary I or LIT have a responsibility for Limerick city centre. There are people/organisations responsible for the city centre but it sure as hell is not is not the University or the colleges. Once they do right by themselves, their staff, and their students then they have done what they are meant to do.



    As for any continued degradation of the city centre having a negative impact on UL. Well the city centre has been getting worse and worse for the past decade or so. UL on the other hand has been coming on in leaps and bounds during that period. If anything UL has shown that it does not need a strong Limerick city centre for the University to thrive


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