Noonan Reveals UL Plans for Opera Centre

ronanc15

Although they don't have funding at present for this, neither did a lot of UL projects when they begun. They have benefited quite a bit from philanthropists such as Atlantic Philanthropy (Chuck Feeney and Co). Fingers crossed they pull through again. A positive step nonetheless!

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/michael-noonan-reveals-ul-plans-for-limerick-s-opera-centre-1-3953127

By Alan Owens
Published on Saturday 16 June 2012 10:00


MINISTER Michael Noonan TD has revealed that University of Limerick president Professor Don Barry has “committed to transferring the humanities section of the University into the city and place it onto the Opera Centre site”.

Speaking at the Limerick Solicitors Bar Association ball, Mr Noonan said the relocation of the humanities department was “a massive change” that would “get a living city going again”.
“What makes it a living city is getting the University in there, getting the town and the gown together for once. Put 1500 people in there, have the lectures there, people living there, and it will drive the thing on,” said the minister.
Mr Noonan admitted that funding was not as of yet available for the move, but noted the magnificent buildings UL have built on the campus in Castletroy as an example of what could yet happen in the city.
“Fair dues to Don Barry, he might not have the money to do it, but he has pledged to do it. But then again if you go through the campus in the University and look at the way they have developed it and the beautiful buildings they have there and the way they use them - at conception there wasn’t a bob for any of them.
“They came up with the idea first, and then they funded it. We would hope that we can do something similar in partnership with the government for the Opera site and get that moving,” he stated.
Asked for a response this week, Prof Don Barry said that UL “want to extend our presence in Limerick city and we are currently considering what options may lead to the establishment in the city centre of a world-class educational development that is significant in scale and sustainable over time”.
“At this early stage no decisions have been made regarding the types of programmes that would be most suited to delivery in a city centre location,” he added.
“To achieve this significant goal will require very considerable funding that is not available at present, but this is essential if we are to develop a strategy and implementation plan that will allow us to provide an outstanding UL student experience in the heart of Limerick city. We look forward to this emerging as the planning of the Opera Centre and other city centre initiatives progresses.”
The UL president has previously said that the future development of the Opera Centre site presents an opportunity to intensify the involvement of UL in the city and that “UL most definitely will play a key role in building the ‘New Limerick’”.
“We take seriously our responsibility to promote economic, educational, social and cultural development in Limerick. And we recognise the mutual benefit that flows from engagement between Limerick city and the University,” Prof Barry said recently.

Kess73

So UL will use it as long as someone else pays for it to be done? The article pretty much reads as if it is something that UL would like to do at some point, but that they have not even gotten to the stage where they know what programmes they want to put in a city centre, let alone have any kind of detailed plan even semi started.

What happened to all the shyte being spouted by the mayor late last year about how work would begin on the centre within 90 days or so, and his waffle about the skywalk between Arthurs quay and the Opera centre. Or how the musuem would be put in there in early 2012? Not to mention all the others who over the past five or six years all crowed about how one thing or another was just about to happen there.

Sounds like one of the many many "stories" about what is going to happen to the pig in a poke project Opera centre.


UL having something of note in the city centre sounds nice, actually it sounds very bloody good, but if they cannot afford to build themselves or set it up themselves, it hardly bodes well so long term sustainability even if someone comes in and pays for the building of it for them unless the person who gives the donation or other donators are expected to pay all future bills for the project as well.

ronanc15

From having a relative working with Chuck Feeney's organisation doing a lot with UL I believe this is similar to how most of their projects have begun. Concept first and once they have a clear picture of what they want to do they lobby for funding. Of all the previous stuff I've heard I would be fairly confident this will go ahead. Just when rather than if.

I suppose they're always going to give the poor mouth first to see what funding they can get before coughing up their own money.

Kess73

ronanc15 wrote: »

From having a relative working with Chuck Feeney's organisation doing a lot with UL I believe this is similar to how most of their projects have begun. Concept first and once they have a clear picture of what they want to do they lobby for funding. Of all the previous stuff I've heard I would be fairly confident this will go ahead. Just when rather than if.

I suppose they're always going to give the poor mouth first to see what funding they can get before coughing up their own money.

Really hope you are proven correct on that, because that whole section of the city is nothing more than an eyesore at this stage and the clowns in town hall don't have a clue what to do with it save for to spout shyte that they think makes them look like they are getting something done there.

ronanc15

Agreed on that!

bazz26

If it gets rid of that eyesore of boarded up, falling down buildings then I'm all for it.

pigtown

This may be good for Limerick but it sure as hell aint good for the poor students and staff who get stuck there, away from the 12000 other students and all of the facilities and nightlife of the college. Why on earth would someone choose to attend whichever faculty pulls the short straw?

Taco Chips

^ Exactly. My deepest sympathies for all the students that have to be pulled away from UL's beautiful, vibrant and active campus and landed in the middle of that ****hole street in a dying city centre. Maybe the bringing of more students will be good for the city but the reason there are none there at the moment is because the city has nothing to offer them. So if this is to go ahead there needs to be some serious development of the area to equip it for the potential needs of a student populace. A new Spar and a bookshop aren't going to cut it.

CiaranMT

Yeah I don't see this going ahead. Humanities students (or any students) won't want to have to bus in and out, or be cut off, from the main campus. Seems like a strange idea, in practice.

Mc Love

pigtown wrote: »

This may be good for Limerick but it sure as hell aint good for the poor students and staff who get stuck there, away from the 12000 other students and all of the facilities and nightlife of the college. Why on earth would someone choose to attend whichever faculty pulls the short straw?

Nightlife of the college?? There is a whole city at their feet instead of the stables!!

pigtown

Mc Love wrote: »

Nightlife of the college?? There is a whole city at their feet instead of the stables!!

Ya but everyone else will be in the stables or the hurlers or the lodge or javas or any of the loads of house parties that happen every week around college. Then there's the question of being able to use the library or the gym between classes. As someone who has spent 5 years there, believe me that being cut of from the rest of the college will not be beneficial.
Put it this way, if UL offered a primary teaching degree, do you think people would choose the city based Mary I or the huge UL campus?

Mc Love

Yeah but I dont think there would be a problem if you arent given the choice

iguana

pigtown wrote: »

Why on earth would someone choose to attend whichever faculty pulls the short straw?

Quite obviously because that's the course they want to do.

Cossax

I think it'd be a step backward for UL if they were to do this - one of its many selling points is the one campus where all students have their lectures/live nearby and the buzz that creates. If they start splitting that up I, as a former student and staff member, would be disappointed.

OwenM

pigtown wrote: »

Why on earth would someone choose to attend whichever faculty pulls the short straw?

So the campus and facilities are more important than the choice of course? Are you really saying that?

Would you attend Maynooth and become a priest if they had the best campus/ facilities for training/education!

phog

How many students attend UL?
How many live in UL/Castletroy?
What's the capactity of the Stables and The Hurlers?

My view is that while it may dicommode a handful of students especially in the first couple of years as some will already be attending UL campus it will be a good thing for the city to have a student population on it's doorstep.

The main issue I see from a student pov is the use of the library or labs.

ninty9er

The facilities are a huge part of the draw for students. I've live a 3 minute walk from LIT most of my life and could have gotten a better qualification there, but the facilities are non-existent so I chose UL.

Don Barry may like this idea, but the one thing I'm extremely confident of is that he has so many conditions attached that it'll cost the city a fortune.

Someone else has pointed to the work of Atlantic Philanthropies at Plassey, which is still ongoing. There are 3 major projects to take place at Plassey before this will se consideration.

Atlantic Philanthropies has been necessary as UL is governments forgotten university, and this is a opportunity to catch up on the state funding.

There are many prerequisites to match ULs existing structures and procedures:
A Luas like transport link from Charlotte's Quay to UL
Parking (have fun explaining to the rest of the city why UL staff have free parking)
Freedom to manage buildings as UL sees fit
Ownership of both land and buildings

Also bearing in mind that this decision does not lie with the President or the Executive, but as a strategic matter would lie with the Governing Authority, I can see it being mired in dispute for years.

ninty9er

ronanc15 wrote: »

I suppose they're always going to give the poor mouth first to see what funding they can get before coughing up their own money.

Given the city is the main beneficiary of UL being in Michael Street/Rutland Street, it's a case of why would any organisation choose to dilute its brand, increase its running costs and discommode 15% of its staff and customers without very good reason.

It's up to government to fund this 100% would be my take on it.

iguana

ninty9er wrote: »

A Luas like transport link from Charlotte's Quay to UL

No need for anything as expensive as a tram line. Regular passenger ferries from UL to Charlottes Quay would be effective, cheap and attractive.

If this ever does happen though, the rest of Limerick can kiss goodbye to the Locke Bar. There is no way it can sit there all attractive across from thousands of students and not be taken over by them.

Amazotheamazing

With respect to the arguments against it, they could easily have been made against having a university in Limerick in the first place. Don't view it as the city is now, but rather what this could bring to Limerick over the next 20 odd years.

Sierra Oscar

So UL management want to effectively geographically split up part of its campus, at a time when various other colleges across Ireland are attempting to centralise faculties (at a massive expense) as there are clear benefits for doing so?

It goes against the entire development process of UL since the initial conception of the university. Does not compute, imho.

flutered

typical irish attitude, keep nit picking, looking for the negatives in whatever is on offer, u.l. has proven itself how many times, here they are coming up with something radical, something the city council who have never had only brain farts could never come up with, most of you guys must be on it, they have come up with some of the greatest ideas in this country, give them a break, what we have that passes for a mayor is on about a skywalk, how long is there one in u.l. they have a few things that is missing from the city, brains, ideas, plus vision, and most importantly the ability to scource finance to provide the finished article,you guys are full of nothing, i argued before the last eloection for a person from boards to run for office, no takers, still you come on here and knock, knock then pontificate, it is extremly possible that a boardsie would be mayor of our city, naw that would never do, would it, then you could not nit pick and take the proverbial, give it a break, support it, if it does not work it can be said that we tried instead of knock.

Sierra Oscar

flutered wrote: »

typical irish attitude, keep nit picking, looking for the negatives in whatever is on offer, u.l. has proven itself how many times, here they are coming up with something radical, something the city council who have never had only brain farts could never come up with, most of you guys must be on it, they have come up with some of the greatest ideas in this country, give them a break, what we have that passes for a mayor is on about a skywalk, how long is there one in u.l. they have a few things that is missing from the city, brains, ideas, plus vision, and most importantly the ability to scource finance to provide the finished article,you guys are full of nothing, i argued before the last eloection for a person from boards to run for office, no takers, still you come on here and knock, knock then pontificate, it is extremly possible that a boardsie would be mayor of our city, naw that would never do, would it, then you could not nit pick and take the proverbial, give it a break, support it, if it does not work it can be said that we tried instead of knock.

I think you are jumping to conclusions in regards the opinions of others - you certainly are in regards myself anyways. I am not claiming that UL has not had any innovation and vision in the past - quite the opposite actually. Over the last thirty years UL has underwent significant development to such an extent that it has arguably the best university campus in Ireland. The reason it has arguably the best campus in Ireland is due to the fact that it has developed in a logical and integrated fashion - and at the core of that development was the ideology of ensuring the centralisation of facilities in one green field campus. I just merely think that this current proposal goes against the type of logical thinking that has lead to the emergence of such a fantastic campus in the first instance.

Yes, limerick city may have its own problems due to the poor planning process of the city council - but that does not necessarily make it UL's problem to try and fix.

You could argue that there are a number of deficiencies with this proposed plan (albeit admittedly we do not know the full extent of the plan itself). For starters many would argue that the transport links between UL and the city are poor as it is - a problem which is compounded due to the fact that a large bulk of the student accommodation stock is located in the Castletroy / Monaleen area. That accommodation stock cannot be turfed up and moved along with any UL faculty that may be moved into the city centre.

I just think that UL should be cautious in jumping into bed with the government just because the city council wants to try and offload a disastrous site which came about as a result of its disastrous planning in the first instance - because ultimately I think UL may regret decentralising its campus down the road and the saving to the university in the long run may be negligible as a result.

pigtown

iguana wrote: »

Quite obviously because that's the course they want to do.

Well if it's the only course available in the country then fine but if it's competing with similar courses in a campus setting in another college then I don't think it would be as successful.

OwenM wrote: »

So the campus and facilities are more important than the choice of course? Are you really saying that?

Would you attend Maynooth and become a priest if they had the best campus/ facilities for training/education!

The campus facilities are almost as important as the course. As there is such a volume of courses that can lead you into your choice of career available in the country, then the facilities on offer in the college become an important distinction between them.

Maynooth isn't really a valid comparison but if UL offered the same education course and facilities as Mary I, I'd choose UL.

Amazotheamazing

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I think you are jumping to conclusions in regards the opinions of others - you certainly are in regards myself anyways. I am not claiming that UL has not had any innovation and vision in the past - quite the opposite actually. Over the last thirty years UL has underwent significant development to such an extent that it has arguably the best university campus in Ireland. The reason it has arguably the best campus in Ireland is due to the fact that it has developed in a logical and integrated fashion - and at the core of that development was the ideology of ensuring the centralisation of facilities in one green field campus. I just merely think that this current proposal goes against the type of logical thinking that has lead to the emergence of such a fantastic campus in the first instance.

Yes, limerick city may have its own problems due to the poor planning process of the city council - but that does not necessarily make it UL's problem to try and fix.

You could argue that there are a number of deficiencies with this proposed plan (albeit admittedly we do not know the full extent of the plan itself). For starters many would argue that the transport links between UL and the city are poor as it is - a problem which is compounded due to the fact that a large bulk of the student accommodation stock is located in the Castletroy / Monaleen area. That accommodation stock cannot be turfed up and moved along with any UL faculty that may be moved into the city centre.

I just think that UL should be cautious in jumping into bed with the government just because the city council wants to try and offload a disastrous site which came about as a result of its disastrous planning in the first instance - because ultimately I think UL may regret decentralising its campus down the road and the saving to the university in the long run may be negligible as a result.

Why not wait and see what they suggest before judging one way or the other?

No offence to the posters here but a bit of positivity wouldn't go astray.

Sierra Oscar

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Why not wait and see what they suggest before judging one way or the other?

No offence to the posters here but a bit of positivity wouldn't go astray.

Well mainly because I am generally fundamentally opposed to the concept of decentralisation of education campuses.

Also due to the fact that this is a discussion forum, and I like discussing things. I would of course be very positive towards a proposal to further develop the humanities faculty within the current UL campus itself.

ZombieBride

As a former student of the Humanities in UL, I would have loved it to have been in the city centre, I didn't go in for the socialising aspect in UL went there to study, the only thing that I would have missed would have been the library, though I'm sure they would have had the facilities for that department in the city location.
Isn't the Art College on Clare Street a branch of LIT? How do those students and teachers cope being separated from all the other students?

I can't stand the nit-picking negativity that rears it's ugly head constantly here.

Amazotheamazing

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Well mainly because I am generally fundamentally opposed to the concept of decentralisation of education campuses.

Also due to the fact that this is a discussion forum, and I like discussing things. I would of course be very positive towards a proposal to further develop the humanities faculty within the current UL campus itself.

I think UL would rather a centralised campus but I think it's also well aware that UL cannot fully prosper if Limerick declines.

but anyhow, the instant negativity is just par for the course here.

pigtown

ZombieBride wrote: »

As a former student of the Humanities in UL, I would have loved it to have been in the city centre, I didn't go in for the socialising aspect in UL went there to study, the only thing that I would have missed would have been the library, though I'm sure they would have had the facilities for that department in the city location.
Isn't the Art College on Clare Street a branch of LIT? How do those students and teachers cope being separated from all the other students?

I can't stand the nit-picking negativity that rears it's ugly head constantly here.

I'm with you there and I make a point of trying not to post anything negative bit I just think this is a bad idea. How would UL moving a large chunk of their facilities away from the campus be a good thing?

ronanc15

Would I be wrong in saying that the intention (you would assume) for these would be additional facilities rather than moving existing ones albeit a different location?

iguana

pigtown wrote: »

Maynooth isn't really a valid comparison but if UL offered the same education course and facilities as Mary I, I'd choose UL.

Why do you keep making that non-comparison, it makes no sense. You know that Mary I is a branch of UL right? They are never going to offer the same course on two of their campuses. Yet thousands of students do attend Mary I, in order to attend those specific courses, despite not being on the main campus.