Noonan Reveals UL Plans for Opera Centre

ronanc15

Although they don't have funding at present for this, neither did a lot of UL projects when they begun. They have benefited quite a bit from philanthropists such as Atlantic Philanthropy (Chuck Feeney and Co). Fingers crossed they pull through again. A positive step nonetheless!

http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/business/michael-noonan-reveals-ul-plans-for-limerick-s-opera-centre-1-3953127

By Alan Owens
Published on Saturday 16 June 2012 10:00


MINISTER Michael Noonan TD has revealed that University of Limerick president Professor Don Barry has “committed to transferring the humanities section of the University into the city and place it onto the Opera Centre site”.

Speaking at the Limerick Solicitors Bar Association ball, Mr Noonan said the relocation of the humanities department was “a massive change” that would “get a living city going again”.
“What makes it a living city is getting the University in there, getting the town and the gown together for once. Put 1500 people in there, have the lectures there, people living there, and it will drive the thing on,” said the minister.
Mr Noonan admitted that funding was not as of yet available for the move, but noted the magnificent buildings UL have built on the campus in Castletroy as an example of what could yet happen in the city.
“Fair dues to Don Barry, he might not have the money to do it, but he has pledged to do it. But then again if you go through the campus in the University and look at the way they have developed it and the beautiful buildings they have there and the way they use them - at conception there wasn’t a bob for any of them.
“They came up with the idea first, and then they funded it. We would hope that we can do something similar in partnership with the government for the Opera site and get that moving,” he stated.
Asked for a response this week, Prof Don Barry said that UL “want to extend our presence in Limerick city and we are currently considering what options may lead to the establishment in the city centre of a world-class educational development that is significant in scale and sustainable over time”.
“At this early stage no decisions have been made regarding the types of programmes that would be most suited to delivery in a city centre location,” he added.
“To achieve this significant goal will require very considerable funding that is not available at present, but this is essential if we are to develop a strategy and implementation plan that will allow us to provide an outstanding UL student experience in the heart of Limerick city. We look forward to this emerging as the planning of the Opera Centre and other city centre initiatives progresses.”
The UL president has previously said that the future development of the Opera Centre site presents an opportunity to intensify the involvement of UL in the city and that “UL most definitely will play a key role in building the ‘New Limerick’”.
“We take seriously our responsibility to promote economic, educational, social and cultural development in Limerick. And we recognise the mutual benefit that flows from engagement between Limerick city and the University,” Prof Barry said recently.

Kess73

So UL will use it as long as someone else pays for it to be done? The article pretty much reads as if it is something that UL would like to do at some point, but that they have not even gotten to the stage where they know what programmes they want to put in a city centre, let alone have any kind of detailed plan even semi started.

What happened to all the shyte being spouted by the mayor late last year about how work would begin on the centre within 90 days or so, and his waffle about the skywalk between Arthurs quay and the Opera centre. Or how the musuem would be put in there in early 2012? Not to mention all the others who over the past five or six years all crowed about how one thing or another was just about to happen there.

Sounds like one of the many many "stories" about what is going to happen to the pig in a poke project Opera centre.


UL having something of note in the city centre sounds nice, actually it sounds very bloody good, but if they cannot afford to build themselves or set it up themselves, it hardly bodes well so long term sustainability even if someone comes in and pays for the building of it for them unless the person who gives the donation or other donators are expected to pay all future bills for the project as well.

ronanc15

From having a relative working with Chuck Feeney's organisation doing a lot with UL I believe this is similar to how most of their projects have begun. Concept first and once they have a clear picture of what they want to do they lobby for funding. Of all the previous stuff I've heard I would be fairly confident this will go ahead. Just when rather than if.

I suppose they're always going to give the poor mouth first to see what funding they can get before coughing up their own money.

Kess73

ronanc15 wrote: »

From having a relative working with Chuck Feeney's organisation doing a lot with UL I believe this is similar to how most of their projects have begun. Concept first and once they have a clear picture of what they want to do they lobby for funding. Of all the previous stuff I've heard I would be fairly confident this will go ahead. Just when rather than if.

I suppose they're always going to give the poor mouth first to see what funding they can get before coughing up their own money.

Really hope you are proven correct on that, because that whole section of the city is nothing more than an eyesore at this stage and the clowns in town hall don't have a clue what to do with it save for to spout shyte that they think makes them look like they are getting something done there.

ronanc15

Agreed on that!

bazz26

If it gets rid of that eyesore of boarded up, falling down buildings then I'm all for it.

pigtown

This may be good for Limerick but it sure as hell aint good for the poor students and staff who get stuck there, away from the 12000 other students and all of the facilities and nightlife of the college. Why on earth would someone choose to attend whichever faculty pulls the short straw?

Taco Chips

^ Exactly. My deepest sympathies for all the students that have to be pulled away from UL's beautiful, vibrant and active campus and landed in the middle of that ****hole street in a dying city centre. Maybe the bringing of more students will be good for the city but the reason there are none there at the moment is because the city has nothing to offer them. So if this is to go ahead there needs to be some serious development of the area to equip it for the potential needs of a student populace. A new Spar and a bookshop aren't going to cut it.

CiaranMT

Yeah I don't see this going ahead. Humanities students (or any students) won't want to have to bus in and out, or be cut off, from the main campus. Seems like a strange idea, in practice.

Mc Love

pigtown wrote: »

This may be good for Limerick but it sure as hell aint good for the poor students and staff who get stuck there, away from the 12000 other students and all of the facilities and nightlife of the college. Why on earth would someone choose to attend whichever faculty pulls the short straw?

Nightlife of the college?? There is a whole city at their feet instead of the stables!!

pigtown

Mc Love wrote: »

Nightlife of the college?? There is a whole city at their feet instead of the stables!!

Ya but everyone else will be in the stables or the hurlers or the lodge or javas or any of the loads of house parties that happen every week around college. Then there's the question of being able to use the library or the gym between classes. As someone who has spent 5 years there, believe me that being cut of from the rest of the college will not be beneficial.
Put it this way, if UL offered a primary teaching degree, do you think people would choose the city based Mary I or the huge UL campus?

Mc Love

Yeah but I dont think there would be a problem if you arent given the choice

iguana

pigtown wrote: »

Why on earth would someone choose to attend whichever faculty pulls the short straw?

Quite obviously because that's the course they want to do.

Cossax

I think it'd be a step backward for UL if they were to do this - one of its many selling points is the one campus where all students have their lectures/live nearby and the buzz that creates. If they start splitting that up I, as a former student and staff member, would be disappointed.

OwenM

pigtown wrote: »

Why on earth would someone choose to attend whichever faculty pulls the short straw?

So the campus and facilities are more important than the choice of course? Are you really saying that?

Would you attend Maynooth and become a priest if they had the best campus/ facilities for training/education!

phog

How many students attend UL?
How many live in UL/Castletroy?
What's the capactity of the Stables and The Hurlers?

My view is that while it may dicommode a handful of students especially in the first couple of years as some will already be attending UL campus it will be a good thing for the city to have a student population on it's doorstep.

The main issue I see from a student pov is the use of the library or labs.

ninty9er

The facilities are a huge part of the draw for students. I've live a 3 minute walk from LIT most of my life and could have gotten a better qualification there, but the facilities are non-existent so I chose UL.

Don Barry may like this idea, but the one thing I'm extremely confident of is that he has so many conditions attached that it'll cost the city a fortune.

Someone else has pointed to the work of Atlantic Philanthropies at Plassey, which is still ongoing. There are 3 major projects to take place at Plassey before this will se consideration.

Atlantic Philanthropies has been necessary as UL is governments forgotten university, and this is a opportunity to catch up on the state funding.

There are many prerequisites to match ULs existing structures and procedures:
A Luas like transport link from Charlotte's Quay to UL
Parking (have fun explaining to the rest of the city why UL staff have free parking)
Freedom to manage buildings as UL sees fit
Ownership of both land and buildings

Also bearing in mind that this decision does not lie with the President or the Executive, but as a strategic matter would lie with the Governing Authority, I can see it being mired in dispute for years.

ninty9er

ronanc15 wrote: »

I suppose they're always going to give the poor mouth first to see what funding they can get before coughing up their own money.

Given the city is the main beneficiary of UL being in Michael Street/Rutland Street, it's a case of why would any organisation choose to dilute its brand, increase its running costs and discommode 15% of its staff and customers without very good reason.

It's up to government to fund this 100% would be my take on it.

iguana

ninty9er wrote: »

A Luas like transport link from Charlotte's Quay to UL

No need for anything as expensive as a tram line. Regular passenger ferries from UL to Charlottes Quay would be effective, cheap and attractive.

If this ever does happen though, the rest of Limerick can kiss goodbye to the Locke Bar. There is no way it can sit there all attractive across from thousands of students and not be taken over by them.

Amazotheamazing

With respect to the arguments against it, they could easily have been made against having a university in Limerick in the first place. Don't view it as the city is now, but rather what this could bring to Limerick over the next 20 odd years.

Sierra Oscar

So UL management want to effectively geographically split up part of its campus, at a time when various other colleges across Ireland are attempting to centralise faculties (at a massive expense) as there are clear benefits for doing so?

It goes against the entire development process of UL since the initial conception of the university. Does not compute, imho.

flutered

typical irish attitude, keep nit picking, looking for the negatives in whatever is on offer, u.l. has proven itself how many times, here they are coming up with something radical, something the city council who have never had only brain farts could never come up with, most of you guys must be on it, they have come up with some of the greatest ideas in this country, give them a break, what we have that passes for a mayor is on about a skywalk, how long is there one in u.l. they have a few things that is missing from the city, brains, ideas, plus vision, and most importantly the ability to scource finance to provide the finished article,you guys are full of nothing, i argued before the last eloection for a person from boards to run for office, no takers, still you come on here and knock, knock then pontificate, it is extremly possible that a boardsie would be mayor of our city, naw that would never do, would it, then you could not nit pick and take the proverbial, give it a break, support it, if it does not work it can be said that we tried instead of knock.

Sierra Oscar

flutered wrote: »

typical irish attitude, keep nit picking, looking for the negatives in whatever is on offer, u.l. has proven itself how many times, here they are coming up with something radical, something the city council who have never had only brain farts could never come up with, most of you guys must be on it, they have come up with some of the greatest ideas in this country, give them a break, what we have that passes for a mayor is on about a skywalk, how long is there one in u.l. they have a few things that is missing from the city, brains, ideas, plus vision, and most importantly the ability to scource finance to provide the finished article,you guys are full of nothing, i argued before the last eloection for a person from boards to run for office, no takers, still you come on here and knock, knock then pontificate, it is extremly possible that a boardsie would be mayor of our city, naw that would never do, would it, then you could not nit pick and take the proverbial, give it a break, support it, if it does not work it can be said that we tried instead of knock.

I think you are jumping to conclusions in regards the opinions of others - you certainly are in regards myself anyways. I am not claiming that UL has not had any innovation and vision in the past - quite the opposite actually. Over the last thirty years UL has underwent significant development to such an extent that it has arguably the best university campus in Ireland. The reason it has arguably the best campus in Ireland is due to the fact that it has developed in a logical and integrated fashion - and at the core of that development was the ideology of ensuring the centralisation of facilities in one green field campus. I just merely think that this current proposal goes against the type of logical thinking that has lead to the emergence of such a fantastic campus in the first instance.

Yes, limerick city may have its own problems due to the poor planning process of the city council - but that does not necessarily make it UL's problem to try and fix.

You could argue that there are a number of deficiencies with this proposed plan (albeit admittedly we do not know the full extent of the plan itself). For starters many would argue that the transport links between UL and the city are poor as it is - a problem which is compounded due to the fact that a large bulk of the student accommodation stock is located in the Castletroy / Monaleen area. That accommodation stock cannot be turfed up and moved along with any UL faculty that may be moved into the city centre.

I just think that UL should be cautious in jumping into bed with the government just because the city council wants to try and offload a disastrous site which came about as a result of its disastrous planning in the first instance - because ultimately I think UL may regret decentralising its campus down the road and the saving to the university in the long run may be negligible as a result.

pigtown

iguana wrote: »

Quite obviously because that's the course they want to do.

Well if it's the only course available in the country then fine but if it's competing with similar courses in a campus setting in another college then I don't think it would be as successful.

OwenM wrote: »

So the campus and facilities are more important than the choice of course? Are you really saying that?

Would you attend Maynooth and become a priest if they had the best campus/ facilities for training/education!

The campus facilities are almost as important as the course. As there is such a volume of courses that can lead you into your choice of career available in the country, then the facilities on offer in the college become an important distinction between them.

Maynooth isn't really a valid comparison but if UL offered the same education course and facilities as Mary I, I'd choose UL.

Amazotheamazing

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

I think you are jumping to conclusions in regards the opinions of others - you certainly are in regards myself anyways. I am not claiming that UL has not had any innovation and vision in the past - quite the opposite actually. Over the last thirty years UL has underwent significant development to such an extent that it has arguably the best university campus in Ireland. The reason it has arguably the best campus in Ireland is due to the fact that it has developed in a logical and integrated fashion - and at the core of that development was the ideology of ensuring the centralisation of facilities in one green field campus. I just merely think that this current proposal goes against the type of logical thinking that has lead to the emergence of such a fantastic campus in the first instance.

Yes, limerick city may have its own problems due to the poor planning process of the city council - but that does not necessarily make it UL's problem to try and fix.

You could argue that there are a number of deficiencies with this proposed plan (albeit admittedly we do not know the full extent of the plan itself). For starters many would argue that the transport links between UL and the city are poor as it is - a problem which is compounded due to the fact that a large bulk of the student accommodation stock is located in the Castletroy / Monaleen area. That accommodation stock cannot be turfed up and moved along with any UL faculty that may be moved into the city centre.

I just think that UL should be cautious in jumping into bed with the government just because the city council wants to try and offload a disastrous site which came about as a result of its disastrous planning in the first instance - because ultimately I think UL may regret decentralising its campus down the road and the saving to the university in the long run may be negligible as a result.

Why not wait and see what they suggest before judging one way or the other?

No offence to the posters here but a bit of positivity wouldn't go astray.

Sierra Oscar

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

Why not wait and see what they suggest before judging one way or the other?

No offence to the posters here but a bit of positivity wouldn't go astray.

Well mainly because I am generally fundamentally opposed to the concept of decentralisation of education campuses.

Also due to the fact that this is a discussion forum, and I like discussing things. I would of course be very positive towards a proposal to further develop the humanities faculty within the current UL campus itself.

ZombieBride

As a former student of the Humanities in UL, I would have loved it to have been in the city centre, I didn't go in for the socialising aspect in UL went there to study, the only thing that I would have missed would have been the library, though I'm sure they would have had the facilities for that department in the city location.
Isn't the Art College on Clare Street a branch of LIT? How do those students and teachers cope being separated from all the other students?

I can't stand the nit-picking negativity that rears it's ugly head constantly here.

Amazotheamazing

Sierra Oscar wrote: »

Well mainly because I am generally fundamentally opposed to the concept of decentralisation of education campuses.

Also due to the fact that this is a discussion forum, and I like discussing things. I would of course be very positive towards a proposal to further develop the humanities faculty within the current UL campus itself.

I think UL would rather a centralised campus but I think it's also well aware that UL cannot fully prosper if Limerick declines.

but anyhow, the instant negativity is just par for the course here.

pigtown

ZombieBride wrote: »

As a former student of the Humanities in UL, I would have loved it to have been in the city centre, I didn't go in for the socialising aspect in UL went there to study, the only thing that I would have missed would have been the library, though I'm sure they would have had the facilities for that department in the city location.
Isn't the Art College on Clare Street a branch of LIT? How do those students and teachers cope being separated from all the other students?

I can't stand the nit-picking negativity that rears it's ugly head constantly here.

I'm with you there and I make a point of trying not to post anything negative bit I just think this is a bad idea. How would UL moving a large chunk of their facilities away from the campus be a good thing?

ronanc15

Would I be wrong in saying that the intention (you would assume) for these would be additional facilities rather than moving existing ones albeit a different location?

iguana

pigtown wrote: »

Maynooth isn't really a valid comparison but if UL offered the same education course and facilities as Mary I, I'd choose UL.

Why do you keep making that non-comparison, it makes no sense. You know that Mary I is a branch of UL right? They are never going to offer the same course on two of their campuses. Yet thousands of students do attend Mary I, in order to attend those specific courses, despite not being on the main campus.

pigtown

Maybe it's the wrong comparison. What I'm trying to say is that If I had the choice between studying in a large college campus with lots of facilities, or a small city centre campus that couldn't offer the same experiences, I'd go the the former. Maybe that's just me.

Sierra Oscar

OwenM wrote: »

So the campus and facilities are more important than the choice of course? Are you really saying that?

Would you attend Maynooth and become a priest if they had the best campus/ facilities for training/education!

I think the user is making the valid point that the standard of a university campus and the services provided invariably affect whether a student picks a certain course over a similar course that is offered by another university. It is also quite easy to demonstrate that the standard of a campus and the services provided (alongside ease of access to those services) can shape the quality of individual courses.

It is pretty basic, and it is why those universities that invest in their facilities in a logical and planned manner perform better on an international level as compared to their counterparts which fail to make proper investments.

ninty9er

iguana wrote: »

Why do you keep making that non-comparison, it makes no sense. You know that Mary I is a branch of UL right? They are never going to offer the same course on two of their campuses. Yet thousands of students do attend Mary I, in order to attend those specific courses, despite not being on the main campus.

Mary I is not a branch of UL. It is a college with UL accredited degrees, similar to the way UCD, UCC, NUIG and NUIM are all the one university.

Mary I is 114 years old, UL became a University in 1989!

UL and Mary I have an academic link, a very strong one, but Mary I controls it's own affairs.

The only UL departments I could see working in the city centre are Medicine and Architecture, primarily because neither department has any combination of modules that I am aware of that are delivered outside of the department. Of the remaining 26 departments, most would have cross-teaching of modules (e.g Dept. Accounting and Finance teaching students across arts, humanities and business spanning 3-4 other departments.)

The city (from listening to people) does not want students, it only wants the economic benefits students bring. Unless the city population is willing to embrace students (and everything that involves) then this is a project doomed to failure.

Taco Chips

ninty9er wrote: »

The city (from listening to people) does not want students, it only wants the economic benefits students bring. Unless the city population is willing to embrace students (and everything that involves) then this is a project doomed to failure.

This is a good point. Often you hear people giving out about the amount of students around the city - in pubs, clubs, restaurants etc.. The fact is that without the student's business in the CC the place would be even deader than it is now. It's a two way street. If you want the student's to spend money in the city then you need to give them better incentives and stop cribbing about them, making them feel isolated. Limerick needs to take a good hard look at itself and pull together some proper economic foundations, otherwise it's just going to keep spiralling towards death, and it's not far off at this stage.

On the main topic, I still don't think this is a good idea for UL. As others have said there are colleges all round the country rushing to centralise their campuses because of the direct benefits it has for the entire university. If this is to go ahead successfully they need to upgrade the area properly before moving the departments, provide much stronger transport links, set up necessary businesses in the locality to cope with a student influx etc... Knowing the city council however it will be done half arsed, incorrectly and at a huge expense with noone benefiting in the end.

Cossax

Amazotheamazing wrote: »

I think UL would rather a centralised campus but I think it's also well aware that UL cannot fully prosper if Limerick declines.

but anyhow, the instant negativity is just par for the course here.

It's a bad idea and I'd say just about anyone and everyone who has been in or is in UL knows it.
UL moving some students to town won't fix anything in the city centre and even the limited good it does will probably be outweighed by the damage done to UL by moving away from its integrated campus and facilities.

Raiser

People avoid Limerick city centre and all its inherent problems such as parking, hordes of roaming Scum etc. like the plague as they have options elsewhere.

- This UL plan seems like a crafty way of forcing thousands of people back into the city centre against their will. It also conveniently fails to address any of the many issues that led to Limerick being such an undesirable, unsafe hole.

pigtown

Bit dramatic there Raiser. I'd have no issue with them moving the entire college into the city. In fact I'd have loved to have been able to go for a stroll around th city between lectures and I actually think Limerick city is quite a nice city with a lot of potential. I'm just against splitting up the campus and restricting access to services to whichever students end up isolated.

Johnny_BravoIII

UL is 2.5miles from Patrick Street by the river.
With a little imagination in terms of infrastructure development, it's not a major obstacle

hordes of roaming Scum etc. like the plague

Really? Seriously? As in...zombie-like or something?
Have you ever spoken to anyone in your life from a different social class as yourself?

The city (from listening to people) does not want students,

And where might one tune into this collective city voice harmoniously chanting against students living in town?

As far as I'm concerned, most the arguments against the proposed relocation are more than a little narrow-minded.
The proposed relocation would be mutually beneficial.
Consider the knock-on effects in other Irish/European/World cities of student living in terms of culture & nightlife.
Not every student wants to spend 4 years ringfenced into UL trapped in a groundhog day of tipp jerseys and pints of Bud in the Stables.

zulutango

I've a lot of friends in Limerick City who are from overseas and studying, mainly towards postgraduate degrees, in the university. Pretty much all of them have chosen to live in the city centre because it offers so much more in terms of quality of life than the UL campus does.

There are pros and cons to UL developing over the years on a green field site on the edge of the city. It certainly allowed them to develop quite quickly and effortlessly. But the campus also lacks the vibrancy and life that city-based universities have.

There are a few people here looking at the city the way it is now, but there's no doubt that if there was a large cohort of students and staff based in the city centre, we'd be living in a radically different and more vibrant city.

This is very good news for both UL and Limerick. It will be a while before we see any move on it though, I suspect.

Check out http://www.patrickstreet.com for a debate on the future of the particular site where UL is proposing to move to.

zulutango

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

UL is 2.5miles from Patrick Street by the river.
With a little imagination in terms of infrastructure development, it's not a major obstacle

That route between the city centre and the university via the river and the canal is the best way to travel between the two places. It doesn't take very long either by foot or by bike (being about half a mile shorter than the main road). There's no motorised traffic, so you won't get killed (as I nearly was when cycling via the main road about 10 years ago) and it's flat, which is great for cyclists. It's also a really picturesque and beautiful route. There are plans to enhance it with a wider path and lighting in the next year or two. Really looking forward seeing these rolled out.

GKB

It is true that the UL campus facilitates the Humanities and Science courses where lectures and tutorials may overlap with other courses. It makes it easy to interact with these other students that you are learning with but not necessarily in their course. You need to be close to the library etc to meet these people.

But there are stand alone courses in UL that do not interact with other courses. The School of Architecture, and Product Design might actually benefit by moving into the Opera Centre where they will be exposed to exhibition spaces: Ormston House, Hunt Museum, Milk Market, and not to mention the Art College. This could be the start of a Design Hub in the city which could be the key in creating a new buzz back into the city.

ninty9er

Raiser wrote: »

People avoid Limerick city centre and all its inherent problems such as parking, hordes of roaming Scum etc. like the plague as they have options elsewhere.

- This UL plan seems like a crafty way of forcing thousands of people back into the city centre against their will. It also conveniently fails to address any of the many issues that led to Limerick being such an undesirable, unsafe hole.

Quite aside from all the logistical issues that would put a huge dent in the student experience, that is actually a fantastic point.

There are 900 students based on Clare Street, another 150 on Georges' Quay and ~3,000 thousand in Mary I.

Dublin and Cork work simply because there is a necessity to live in the city and nowhere else for the students there to go.

In any given semester there are between 1800-2000 of UL's ~9,000 full time cohort on placement all over the world, that leaves ~7,000.

2,600 of those live on, not near or close to, on the campus. The remaining ~4,500 probably consists 50% of commuting students. So essentially, the argument is for the government to spend a fortune to get a couple of thousand people to be in the city (probably no more than 1,000 on a given day), because you can bank on UL having no interest in spending money to add to its deficit and create further structural deficit issues.

On or near the campus students have a supermarket, there's a cinema Unigolf, Hurlers, Groody, Stables, Scholars, Pavillion, Sports Bar, 50m pool, top class gym, 70 clubs and societies and 330 acres to roam around.

Call me cynical, I want to see the city be regenerated as much as anyone else, but just because middle class families don't want to take up the mantle and move into the city centre (I think the proper solution), don't expect a transient population that has everything it could possible need to give up its convenience.

This is a pipe dream and is not a solution to any problem. It does't solve any problems and it doesn't bring any more students to the city centre than the city centre already has

How about, I don't know, using the space to give everyone a reason to use the city centre.

godfrey

This is insanity. Universities all over the world would give anything to have one campus with everything on site. This was highlighted only recently by a prominent member at UCD. Their buildings are scattered all over Dublin and it's a nightmare for staff and students alike.

Once again, Ireland insists on making a scrones of things in their own special way, ignoring everything that can be learnt from others, and at great expense.

Spare me.

g

Limerick Dude

godfrey wrote: »

This is insanity. Universities all over the world would give anything to have one campus with everything on site. This was highlighted only recently by a prominent member at UCD. Their buildings are scattered all over Dublin and it's a nightmare for staff and students alike.

Once again, Ireland insists on making a scrones of things in their own special way, ignoring everything that can be learnt from others, and at great expense.

Spare me.

g

That's DIT your thinking of, UCD have their own campus.

Sierra Oscar

Limerick Dude wrote: »

That's DIT your thinking of, UCD have their own campus.

True, although UCD have spent the last number of decades centralising its campus in Belfield away from seperate buildings within the city centre.

zulutango

godfrey wrote: »

This is insanity. Universities all over the world would give anything to have one campus with everything on site. This was highlighted only recently by a prominent member at UCD. Their buildings are scattered all over Dublin and it's a nightmare for staff and students alike.

Once again, Ireland insists on making a scrones of things in their own special way, ignoring everything that can be learnt from others, and at great expense.

Spare me.

g

The fact is that UL is at a significant disadvantage to other universities because it can't offer a proper city experience. It's just not appealing to spend 3 or 4 years on a sterile self-contained university campus. Many students, especially international students, relish the chance to live in a city as there is so much more on offer, i.e. night life, arts and cultural scene, shopping, and generally a greater vibrancy and life experience. Let's not lose the run of ourselves. Moving one faculty to the city isn't going to rip UL apart. In the great scheme of things it's a very positive move.

Cpt_Blackbeard

If done right, the pros will hugely outweigh the cons. Getting UL and the students into the Opera centre area would lead to massive knock-on development of the surrounding area.

A sudden influx of students into the city, the whole image of the city could be turned around. You will now have a conservative concentration of ~250 students constantly coming and going. Those 250 students will need somewhere to eat and hangout - Humanities students will have a lot of time to do the latter. The increase of students around the city would help massively in getting more middle-class types to feel comfortable in visiting the city.

Local businesses will recognise this new demand and we'll likely see a renovation of much of Arthur's Quay and the surrounding blocks to capitalise upon this. Honestly, a renovation of Arthur's Quay as a quasi student-centre/cafe/village should be high on list were this to go ahead. There is already a multi-story carpark and apartments in place to cater for students. The potatoe market too, could be used for student parking. Arthur's Quay park on a sunny day will suddenly become over-run with students.

The Locke and Trinity Rooms are far superior than anything that the Lodge and the Stables can offer. Provided the travel links - somehow utilising the Abbey river would be brilliant - were sorted out, you would get students coming from the campus and into town for "socialising".

The one thing you can say about any of the recent builds in UL is that, nothing is ever done half-assed. This would be a huge project were it to be done right, but I'd have full faith that it could be pulled off correctly. Its potentially the nicest part of the city centre and pulling this off correctly could make Limerick into a fantastic modern little city.

pigtown

I'm not so sure it would have such a huge effect on the city. Students are generally poor, shopping at Aldi and drinking in their houses before heading to icon. They won't exactly bring an economic benefit with them. I'd imagine the Students Union would operate a shop in this new building and there are bound to be new cafes/restaurants aswell, probably operated by Masterchef like all of the ones on campus. UL also have a policy of building on-campus accomodation so landlords wouldn't be benefitting that much, and if you think students are going to pay for parking everyday then you clearly don't know many students.

Then you have to look at the effect it would have on the students. They pay 2,500 a year for services such as the 70 clubs and societies that exist on campus, the health centre, student councilling, the chaplaincy services, student union etc. Are the students going to be left without these services or will they be replicated in the new building? Will class reps based in the city be entitled to miss lectures so that they can travel to the main campus for meetings? Will staff get travel expenses for when they have to attend meetings and conferences in Plassey?

Then you have to ask which courses could be moved. Design was mentioned but I attended some of their lectures for the course I did so would I be expected to travel to the city or would they run the lectures in both locations? Architecture was also mentioned but personal experience shows that these students work 9-6 Monday-Friday for a longer term than other courses and need the opportunity to unwind with fellow students or in their clubs/socs. I don't think isolating them even more is a good idea. The medical school could have been a good fit as these students have already attended college and are supposedly more mature so may not want the typical student experience, but the new medical school is nearly finished now and I think they will be sharing facilities with the nursing school anyway. So again, who do you move?

zulutango

pigtown wrote: »

I'm not so sure it would have such a huge effect on the city. Students are generally poor, shopping at Aldi and drinking in their houses before heading to icon. They won't exactly bring an economic benefit with them.

Come on now, Pigtown. This is really grasping at straws! Students the world over spend money and benefit local economies. Take the art students who mostly live in and around the city at the moment. There's a whole heap of business dependent on them, from pubs, cafés, printers, shops, etc. Throwing more students into the mix can't be seen as anyting other than a good thing for the city. Pretty much all the students who I know who live in the city centre interact with it in a very meaningful way, and they spend their money there too.

pigtown wrote: »

I'd imagine the Students Union would operate a shop in this new building and there are bound to be new cafes/restaurants aswell, probably operated by Masterchef like all of the ones on campus. UL also have a policy of building on-campus accomodation so landlords wouldn't be benefitting that much, and if you think students are going to pay for parking everyday then you clearly don't know many students.

UL (or Plassey Campus Centre) are unlikely to set up ancillary business in the city, or provide their own accomodation. As for parking, the era of students owning cars is fast coming to an end. If they are based in the city and live there too, they won't need cars. There's also advanced plans for improving the public tranpsort links between the UL campus and the city. Parking is not an issue.

pigtown wrote: »

Then you have to look at the effect it would have on the students. They pay 2,500 a year for services such as the 70 clubs and societies that exist on campus, the health centre, student councilling, the chaplaincy services, student union etc. Are the students going to be left without these services or will they be replicated in the new building? Will class reps based in the city be entitled to miss lectures so that they can travel to the main campus for meetings? Will staff get travel expenses for when they have to attend meetings and conferences in Plassey?

It'll be good for the students if anything. I can't see why they'd be denied anything they currently enjoy.

pigtown wrote: »

Then you have to ask which courses could be moved. Design was mentioned but I attended some of their lectures for the course I did so would I be expected to travel to the city or would they run the lectures in both locations? Architecture was also mentioned but personal experience shows that these students work 9-6 Monday-Friday for a longer term than other courses and need the opportunity to unwind with fellow students or in their clubs/socs. I don't think isolating them even more is a good idea. The medical school could have been a good fit as these students have already attended college and are supposedly more mature so may not want the typical student experience, but the new medical school is nearly finished now and I think they will be sharing facilities with the nursing school anyway. So again, who do you move?

Having them based in a city is hardly isolating them!! If anything, they are isolated on campus! Locating them in the city IS giving them the typical student experience.

Cpt_Blackbeard

You are acting like students in the city will be entirely secluded from campus life. That would not be the case. Central to any proposed idea would be a transport link between the campus and city. None of this would go ahead without the travel being free or massively subsidised.

Done right and UL will only be a 10min gondola ride up the river.