450 job losses announced at Iarnród Éireann

Victor

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

I've been dreaming of this day for years. IE's bloated workforce mostly consists of (in my experience) rude, poorly educated, middle-aged men who have held the job since they inherited it from their fathers after they dropped out of school aged 14. The company is notoriously difficult to break into, especially for educated college graduates. Management will see you as a threat to their own cushy job.

Don't forget, we taxpayers are essentially paying their wages via the millions in subsidies IE receives. So a saving for the company is a saving for us. Vending machines are far more efficient for ticket sales, as seen in London, Toronto, NY and practically every other city in the world. The unions are only preventing progress to protect their increasingly redundant jobs.

No need for the snideness

foggy_lad

Judgement Day wrote: »

Rathdrum is a crossing place but not regularly used. It is a destination for Railtours Ireland passengers http://www.railtoursireland.com/train-tour/The-Wicklow-Mountains-Glendalough-Kilkenny-City/dC01K/ and a local taxi/tour operator Mick Dunbar Cabs http://www.mickdunbar.com/ also operates to and from Rathdrum Station. As I said previously, any time I pass through there's a fair volume of commuter traffic and that's what the service is tailored to. That it could be much busier goes without saying but that is down to CIE/IE's ramshackle business methods. I almost forgot, but the main reason Foggy appears to want Rathdrum closed is the presence of old railway buildings - something for which he has a deep, irrational loathing. Presumably he loves Broombridge and Kilcoole - the closure of the Soviet style South Wexford line must have been a severe blow to him.

It has little to do with any Buildings on site, As for Rail-tours Ireland they could just as easily operate from a different station on the route like Wicklow or Arklow and it is not the job of Irish Rail to keep local taxi operators in business!

Any time I have used the station there has been at most 3 people on or off the train which was at commuter times and it is more to do with the station and railway being too costly and slow than any business methods of C.I.E. or Irish Rail.

More jobs will be lost as long as people cling to the past and fight tooth and nail to keep useless watering halts like Rathdrum.

Judgement Day

There's little point in arguing with you Foggy as you won't let facts get in the way of your dogma. Nowhere did I say that Rathdrum should be kept open to facilitate local taxi firms or Railtours Ireland but you say nobody uses the station so why are Mick Dunbar and Railtours Ireland operating to and from there? You still haven't addressed the issue I have repeatedly raised i.e what benefit to CIE or to travellers on the Rosslare/Dublin line would closing the station have? Did you work in senior management in a previous life because you sound like quite a number of them that I have dealt with down the years - 'if they were building the railways today, they wouldn't build them in Ireland'....I won't name the official who said that in my presence but with that sort of metality is it any wonder things have gone to hell in a handcart?

LXFlyer

This whole discussion about Rathdrum being too costly and delaying trains is farcical, although given who started it why am I not surprised?

Firstly it is an unstaffed halt, and secondly a station stop adds a maximum of 3 minutes to the journey. That is hardly going to make much difference in the context of an overall journey time.

end of the road

have to agree with judgement day, rathdrum has a good enough usership, the trains to rosslare are so slow anyway so stopping there or not stopping there wouldn't make a difference.

foggy_lad

I'm on a packed bank holiday train at the moment and all 5 carriages are full. The premier class carriage is empty except for the train attendant/ticket checker who has not made an appearance yet. There are plenty of jobs that could easily go and situations like this should never happen as it annoys people too see some having to stand while there are so many empty seats in first class!

AlekSmart

SMASH THE UNIONS; 78993819]I've been dreaming of this day for years. IE's bloated workforce mostly consists of (in my experience) rude, poorly educated, middle-aged men who have held the job since they inherited it from their fathers after they dropped out of school aged 14. The company is notoriously difficult to break into, especially for educated college graduates. Management will see you as a threat to their own cushy job.

Don't forget, we taxpayers are essentially paying their wages via the millions in subsidies IE receives. So a saving for the company is a saving for us. Vending machines are far more efficient for ticket sales, as seen in London, Toronto, NY and practically every other city in the world. The unions are only preventing progress to protect their increasingly redundant jobs.

Way-Hay...I must be SMASH! The Unions worst walking nightmare so....a veritable Count Dracula to his/her Dr Van Helsing.

Having left (not dropped out,mind you) school after my Group Certificate I went straight into an apprenticeship with (then) CIE at the tender age of 15.

The school-leaving was quite a considered move,as I had been hearing quite some hair-raising stories from pals who had been parentally guided into the warm and loving educational embrace of na mBráithre Críostaí

Sadly for our nepotistically consumed Union Smashing ! poster,I had no family connections with Coras Iompar Eireann at all,a trait shared with 12 others in my 15 strong year of apprentices.

Having decided quite rationally to avoid the academic route I served my apprenticeship with CIE,an employer which, doubtless infuriatingly for the Union Smasher !,has regularly supplied finalists to the European and World Apprentice Competitions down the years.....doubtless these finalists were nodded through by equally nepotistic foreign judges....(Sheesh :rolleyes:).

In my almost 40 year voyage through the CIE group I've come across some staff who fit the Union Smashers ! imagined CIE staff mould very closely indeed...all the way up to the Boardroom of Heuston Station...and not all Trade Union members either....;)

I would also have to say that in this time I met,worked under and reported to several "College Graduates" who had entered the company "from the outside" (a process which continues today albeit at a much reduced level)....It remains my belief that far too many of these fine fellows were substantially lacking in any real talent apart from what was inscribed on their Degree Scroll....If SMASH the Unions is suggesting that "College Educated Graduates" will somehow magically transform CIE or any corporate entity then I really do despair (as indeed do many of the traditional multi-national Irish Graduate recruiters of late )

However the reality remains that CIE and it's workforce is not really that different from any similar sized Irish entity,public or private.....to insinuate that being a member of a Trade Union automatically confers membership of some axis-of-evil really says a bit more about those who actually belive such cobblers than the TU members themselves.

Nope,the real world is a little less polarized and at the days end folk'sll just have to git along with each other.....Trade Unionist and Graduate alike....;)

Oh,and by the way,we had on-street ticket vending machines installed at three locations in Dublin City Centre some 30 years ago now,but they succumbed to the attentions of the citizenry...particularly the one at TCD wall on College Green....Superglue,Excrement and finally Petrol and a Match finally despatched that particular one (Question: What is the nearest source of Petrol to College Green ?)

Apologies for the ranty bits....now where's my Union Badge...:)

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

I'm on a packed bank holiday train at the moment and all 5 carriages are full. The premier class carriage is empty except for the train attendant/ticket checker who has not made an appearance yet. There are plenty of jobs that could easily go and situations like this should never happen as it annoys people too see some having to stand while there are so many empty seats in first class!

Journey Orign and Destination Foggy ?.......just for guidance like..

Dublin Spotter

I'm on a packed bank holiday train at the moment and all 5 carriages are full. The premier class carriage is empty except for the train attendant/ticket checker who has not made an appearance yet. There are plenty of jobs that could easily go and situations like this should never happen as it annoys people too see some having to stand while there are so many empty seats in first class!

If you want to sit in premair class then upgrade you ticket for €12 onboard but dispite the timetable saying first class on the Waterford timetable they don't offer any first class treatment to passengers like they do on the cork and galway line. Mabye the people who are standing should of booked a seat online and then they would have a seat.

AlekSmart

Dublin Spotter wrote: »

If you want to sit in premair class then upgrade you ticket for €12 onboard but dispite the timetable saying first class on the Waterford timetable they don't offer any first class treatment to passengers like they do on the cork and galway line. Mabye the people who are standing should of booked a seat online and then they would have a seat.

Oh Oh !....this is not going to end well.....:(

end of the road

people like smash the unions are the type who if they had their way everyone would be working in sweatshop conditions for a few pence an hour and would just have to sit there and put up with it, sad thing is their are people who would put up with it.. thankfully his sort will never get their way because their are people who have pride and expect proper working conditions and won't stand for anything less, fair play to them i say.

foggy_lad

AlekSmart wrote: »

Oh Oh !....this is not going to end well.....:(

Had to smile at your slightly ranty post above Alek, it is the Waterford-Dublin train and the premier car is still empty and Tue attendant kept busy turning passengers away from empty seats so they can stand.

As for reserving seats lol Lol and again LOL

foggy_lad

Dublin Spotter wrote: »

If you want to sit in premair class then upgrade you ticket for €12 onboard but dispite the timetable saying first class on the Waterford timetable they don't offer any first class treatment to passengers like they do on the cork and galway line. Mabye the people who are standing should of booked a seat online and then they would have a seat.

€12 is about the coat of the return journey with JJ Kavanagh's and at least on the bus you won't be charged extra for something as basic as a seat. No wonder the company is shedding staff with such awful operating practices.

Also booking online only guarantees you a seat if the ticket checker is actually on board and can be found to remove anyone who may be sitting in your seat.

bazza1

foggy_lad wrote: »

€12 is about the coat of the return journey with JJ Kavanagh's and at least on the bus you won't be charged extra for something as basic as a seat. No wonder the company is shedding staff with such awful operating practices.

Also booking online only guarantees you a seat if the ticket checker is actually on board and can be found to remove anyone who may be sitting in your seat.

I fully agree. Will cutting more jobs help this situation?

Not being facetious, but why are you not on JJ Kavanagh for €12 then?

Judgement Day

Foggy, now that you've lurched off on another tangent - as I have always understood it, and experienced it, when there is empty 1st class seating and people forced to stand they are generally allowed to occupy the empty seating at no extra charge. I suggest you write to Dick Fearn when you get home - tell him I advised you to.

PS Would never happen on the Rosslare line!

tombliboo83

Foggy, the 16.35 is not advertised as 1st class. It's a bank holiday so that's why the sets are a bit mixed up. You are fully entitled to sit in the seat..you're mad if you don't and rail gourmet staff have no say in who goes in there anyway, it's up to the ttc.

loyatemu

end of the road wrote: »

well thats hardly their fault the service is infrequent is it? so if their going to graystones then why keep killcool open? the people there are obviously using it which is why its still open. and i thought the goary commuters stop there or do they run anymore?

Kilcoole "station" (its just a single platform with no buildings) is not in Kilcoole, its about a mile away from the village down a country lane. if you have to get in your car to go to the station you're a lot better off going to Greystones where there is a train every 30 minutes.

OTOH, like Rathdrum it probably costs next to nothing to maintain and stop a few trains a day there.

Cookie_Monster

bazza1 wrote: »

Not being facetious, but why are you not on JJ Kavanagh for €12 then?

because he'd have to pay for that whereas the tax payer will fund his train fare for him

Hilly Bill

dowlingm wrote: »

Losty - how are Chiltern managing it? Did the slam door UK 3s have wider openings?

Re: Rathdrum - isn't there's a loop there - many of the stops possibly for the convenience of pathing not passengers? As was pointed out foggy_lad if a train is speed restricted passing through Rathdrum anyway because of the geography of the site there's not much to be lost by stopping.

Hilly Bill - do you have anything further to add about the job losses? If so add it.

Why should the thread go the train spotting route when no one else has any thing to add to the thread topic?
most of whats being posted has already been posted in parts in other section in commuting & Transport.
Dowlingm, have you anything to add to the thread topic?

end of the road

loyatemu wrote: »

Kilcoole "station" (its just a single platform with no buildings) is not in Kilcoole, its about a mile away from the village down a country lane. if you have to get in your car to go to the station you're a lot better off going to Greystones where there is a train every 30 minutes.

thats fine, but if thats the case why keep it open? look i'm not suggesting it should be closed but if the locals are going to graystones then whats the point of it being open at all? how come only some trains stop and others don't? obviously people are using it which is the reason its still open.

loyatemu wrote: »

OTOH, like Rathdrum it probably costs next to nothing to maintain and stop a few trains a day there.

ah yeh thats a great way to run a railway, right dougal we'l stop here for the laugh, it doesn't cost us anything so we may as well. right so ted. many other stations a long the line long since closed could have been left unmaned yet they were closed, they served people to. again i'm not suggesting it should be closed but trying to figure out what the point of it being open is. somebody must be using it.

AlekSmart

foggy_lad wrote: »

Had to smile at your slightly ranty post above Alek, it is the Waterford-Dublin train and the premier car is still empty and Tue attendant kept busy turning passengers away from empty seats so they can stand.

As for reserving seats lol Lol and again LOL

Hey!....watch it Bud...less of the "Slightly" if you please !!!

Dublin Spotter

Foggy, the 16.35 is not advertised as 1st class. It's a bank holiday so that's why the sets are a bit mixed up. You are fully entitled to sit in the seat..you're mad if you don't and rail gourmet staff have no say in who goes in there anyway, it's up to the ttc.

Foggy said it was the Waterford-Dublin train they were on and going by the time of the post they were on the 14.50 ex Waterford (16.15 ex Carlow) and that service is scheduled to have First Class...well what Irish Rail claim to be first class.

foggy_lad

tombliboo83 wrote: »

Foggy, the 16.35 is not advertised as 1st class. It's a bank holiday so that's why the sets are a bit mixed up. You are fully entitled to sit in the seat..you're mad if you don't and rail gourmet staff have no say in who goes in there anyway, it's up to the ttc.

It is advertised as having 1st class in the bank holiday supplemtary timetable so i think that covers their arses. and it was a ticket checker/conductor who was stopping people from entering first class!

Judgement Day wrote: »

Foggy, now that you've lurched off on another tangent - as I have always understood it, and experienced it, when there is empty 1st class seating and people forced to stand they are generally allowed to occupy the empty seating at no extra charge. I suggest you write to Dick Fearn when you get home - tell him I advised you to.

PS Would never happen on the Rosslare line!

This is not the case and afaik there is nothing in the conditions of carriage or the customer charter which states this being the case. and the rosslare line never has 1st class because it is not a real railway line just a ferry branch line:P

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

because he'd have to pay for that whereas the tax payer will fund his train fare for him

JJ Kavanagh's have accepted free travel passes on all their scheduled services for as long as I can remember.

Dublin Spotter wrote: »

Foggy said it was the Waterford-Dublin train they were on and going by the time of the post they were on the 14.50 ex Waterford (16.15 ex Carlow) and that service is scheduled to have First Class...well what Irish Rail claim to be first class.

It was the 14:50 exWaterford, 16:13 ex Carlow which was the only train on the up route scheduled to have a 1st class carriage.

end of the road

foggy_lad wrote: »

the rosslare line never has 1st class because it is not a real railway line just a ferry branch line

ah now, stop that, enough of that, its a vital piece of infrastructure which is being and has been ran into the ground by generations of CIE management who have done everything in their power to drive away all the customers yet some of us just won't go. they succeeded with one of our vital lines, but thankfully its not going to well for them with this one.

SMASH THE UNIONS

end of the road wrote: »

people like smash the unions are the type who if they had their way everyone would be working in sweatshop conditions for a few pence an hour and would just have to sit there and put up with it, sad thing is their are people who would put up with it.. thankfully his sort will never get their way because their are people who have pride and expect proper working conditions and won't stand for anything less, fair play to them i say.

Absolute strawman argument. Withdraw that libellious comment please.

Objecting to Unions protecting incompetent workers at the expense of progress does not make me a child labour advocate. I don't understand how you could make that connection. It doesn't bode well for your argument if you have to resort hysteria and hyperbole.

In this day and age, why are IE paying clerics to sit behind a desk all day to sell tickets, and then paying another guy a few feet away to check tickets before heading down to the platform, when a vending machine can do this job quicker and more efficiently? As has been already been said, if IE are able to let go of 450 staff without any major negative affects to services, what does that say about their hiring practices? I can only conclude that there are a significant number of parasites sitting idly on the payroll only to collect their union-protected paycheck. Unless an IE insider can explain how the company can mange this redution in staff numbers?

AlekSmart

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

Absolute strawman argument. Withdraw that libellious comment please.

Objecting to Unions protecting incompetent workers at the expense of progress does not make me a child labour advocate. I don't understand how you could make that connection. It doesn't bode well for your argument if you have to resort hysteria and hyperbole.

In this day and age, why are IE paying clerics to sit behind a desk all day to sell tickets, and then paying another guy a few feet away to check tickets before heading down to the platform, when a vending machine can do this job quicker and more efficiently? As has been already been said, if IE are able to let go of 450 staff without any major negative affects to services, what does that say about their hiring practices? I can only conclude that there are a significant number of parasites sitting idly on the payroll only to collect their union-protected paycheck. Unless an IE insider can explain how the company can mange this redution in staff numbers?

Episode 1: (Subject to the "In my experience" caveat).......Libel,Erm......Ah right Ted....oh well......:o

SMASH THE UNIONS: IE's bloated workforce mostly consists of (in my experience) rude, poorly educated, middle-aged men who have held the job since they inherited it from their fathers after they dropped out of school aged 14. The company is notoriously difficult to break into, especially for educated college graduates. Management will see you as a threat to their own cushy job.

Don't forget, we taxpayers are essentially paying their wages via the millions in subsidies IE receives. So a saving for the company is a saving for us. Vending machines are far more efficient for ticket sales, as seen in London, Toronto, NY and practically every other city in the world. The unions are only preventing progress to protect their increasingly redundant jobs.

Hear Hear Sez I....All those in favour of withdrawing "Libelous Comments" say Aye......Have the ayes got it then ?

Episode 2: Hysteria & Hyperbole........far more cost effective to re-run Episode 1 I should imagine ....?

Aye's to the Left .....Nay's to the Right (wing ?)

This one could well run for a couple of seasons on TG4....;)

schemingbohemia

foggy_lad wrote: »

€12 is about the coat of the return journey with JJ Kavanagh's and at least on the bus you won't be charged extra for something as basic as a seat. No wonder the company is shedding staff with such awful operating practices.

Also booking online only guarantees you a seat if the ticket checker is actually on board and can be found to remove anyone who may be sitting in your seat.

No Foggy Lad having a mouth on you and asking the person in your pre-booked seat to vacate it is a way to guarantee your seat.

Anyone not booking a seat on a Bank Holiday Monday coming back from Kilkenny is rather foolish.

Victor

I can only conclude that there are a significant number of parasites

Less with the insults please.

---

In this day and age, why are IE paying clerics to sit behind a desk all day to sell tickets, and then paying another guy a few feet away to check tickets before heading down to the platform, when a vending machine can do this job quicker and more efficiently?

Not guaranteed.

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

Absolute strawman argument. Withdraw that libellious comment please.

Objecting to Unions protecting incompetent workers at the expense of progress does not make me a child labour advocate. I don't understand how you could make that connection. It doesn't bode well for your argument if you have to resort hysteria and hyperbole.

Child labour wasn't mentioned, lay off the hyperbole yourself.

foggy_lad

end of the road wrote: »

ah now, stop that, enough of that, its a vital piece of infrastructure which is being and has been ran into the ground by generations of CIE management who have done everything in their power to drive away all the customers yet some of us just won't go. they succeeded with one of our vital lines, but thankfully its not going to well for them with this one.

How is it Vital with so many buses operating from the Airport through the areas the train serves? the 002 operates every hour between 7am and 9pm then at 11pm 3am and 5am. Compare that to 4 trains a day and see how vital people think this deadweight service is to the country!

http://www.buseireann.ie/pdf/1300287394-2.pdf

The railway line is slow and just too expensive to keep open and operating when the passenger numbers are not high enough to pay for the staff and stations on the line.

kingshankly

I find it baffling in these hard times that some people get satisfaction of people loosing their jobs.