450 job losses announced at Iarnród Éireann

Hilly Bill

n97 mini wrote: »

Are these real job losses or early retirements/voluntary redundancies where people leave by choice as they will be better off elsewhere?

I think it could be voluntary and contracts not being renewed .

Trhiggy83

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I think it could be voluntary and contracts not being renewed .

There is lots of permanent workers in Irish Rail who don't actually have any work to do at the moment and the tax payer is picking up the Bill each month paying these people. It is not their fault because they are permanent employees and protected by the unions. I think this needs to be pointed out to Leo Varadker.

Why public sector jobs get such protection is beyond belief seen as the country is on its knees. The only reason large cuts cant be made within Irish rail is because the rail network would come to a standstill with strikes. The cuts should be made now and redundancies should be as soon as possible. The rest of the country is suffering so no one should be able to hold the country to ransom at the minute. The Croke park agreement said no redundancies should take place that is why voluntary redundancy is being suggested.


The company needs to restructure radically and get rid of the workers that are not needed. Its almost criminal to believe that there is people in the company get well paid but don't actually have any work to do currently. Imagine you were picking up 4k a month for doing nothing, i bet you wouldnt complain either.

The problem with the company is within, as the very people who need to restructure the company are a part of the problem. The quicker the rail industry is privatized the better, you will only see a company that is run like a proper business then.

Heisenberg1

Trhiggy83 wrote: »

There is lots of permanent workers in Irish Rail who don't actually have any work to do at the moment and the tax payer is picking up the Bill each month paying these people. It is not their fault because they are permanent employees and protected by the unions. I think this needs to be pointed out to Leo Varadker.

Why public sector jobs get such protection is beyond belief seen as the country is on its knees. The only reason large cuts cant be made within Irish rail is because the rail network would come to a standstill with strikes. The cuts should be made now and redundancies should be as soon as possible. The rest of the country is suffering so no one should be able to hold the country to ransom at the minute. The Croke park agreement said no redundancies should take place that is why voluntary redundancy is being suggested.

The company needs to restructure radically and get rid of the workers that are not needed. Its almost criminal to believe that there is people in the company get well paid but don't actually have any work to do currently. Imagine you were picking up 4k a month for doing nothing, i bet you wouldnt complain either.

The problem with the company is within, as the very people who need to restructure the company are a part of the problem. The quicker the rail industry is privatized the better, you will only see a company that is run like a proper business then.

Intersting some examples please of these non working employess? Are IE part of the croke park agreement??

end of the road

Forest Demon wrote: »

Most of the ticket inspectors and staff in I come into contact with are ignorant pigs. I have seen them being really rude to old people and women with prams and children etc

maybe they were in the way and taking up the isles. theyl get over it.

Forest Demon wrote: »

The last time he was so rude to a girl with a baby. I told him to have some manors in dealing with the people who are paying his wages and he threatened to throw me off the train.

maybe she didn't have a valid ticket
good for him, i'd do the same in his situation, you don't interfere with railway staff doing their job.

kc56

The Croke Park Agreement does not apply to IE; it only applies to government departments and agencies not to semi-state bodies and companies like IE!

IE have been reducing staff numbers by about 100-150 per year so 450 over 4 years is a continuation of this. IE need less staff due to increasing automation and other efficiencies such as there is no requirement for guards on trains and the widespread use of driver only trains. In addition a lot of work is now contracted out to the private sector - catering, cleaning, engine maintenance, some track maintenance and most major projects. Switching to ICRs has also reduced the need for shunting staff at terminal stations except where freight still operates.

It should also be remembered that IE now operate more intercity services than before, except to Limerick, with diminished state subsidies. Not too long ago there were 3 services to Sligo; today there are 8.

Hilly Bill

end of the road wrote: »

maybe they were in the way and taking up the isles. theyl get over it.

maybe she didn't have a valid ticket
good for him, i'd do the same in his situation, you don't interfere with railway staff doing their job.

The gas part is that some actually believe that they pay the wages
And some of those dont even work or pay taxes.

end of the road

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

I've been dreaming of this day for years. IE's bloated workforce mostly consists of (in my experience) rude, poorly educated, middle-aged men who have held the job since they inherited it from their fathers after they dropped out of school aged 14. The company is notoriously difficult to break into, especially for educated college graduates. Management will see you as a threat to their own cushy job.
The unions are only preventing progress to protect their increasingly redundant jobs.

the railway is in their blood its all they know.
wouldn't you want someone to look out for your job all though i forgot those in the private sector will put up with anything just to keep a job, some people have their pride and won't. but begrudgers like you will never understand

IE needs people who know about the workings of the railway not educated college graduates unless they have a qualification relevant. maybe those educated college graduates who did apply just weren't up to the job or not what IE was looking for.

end of the road

kc56 wrote: »

there is no requirement for guards on trains and the widespread use of driver only trains

their should be. a driver has enough to do driving the train without having to be responsible for dealing with passengers should their be a problem. the guard could be a ticket inspector as well. driver only trains may work in other countries but i doubt they have the same problem with anti-social uncivilised filth who can sometimes be found aboard our railways, or if so their is a system willing to deal with them.

kc56 wrote: »

It should also be remembered that IE now operate more intercity services than before, except to Limerick, with diminished state subsidies. Not too long ago there were 3 services to Sligo; today there are 8.

and thats to be commended but sligo is one of the lucky ones,
places like rosslare/wexford still have an infrequent service outside rush-hour with gaps of 4 and 5 hours between some services, and as mentioned limerick but don't they have a more frequent service by changing off the cork train with it being hourly?

Jamie2k9

Anti social behaviour is not widespread across the Network, its mainly in the Dublin region. There is always the few exceptions like Waterford services on Sundays and problems on Rosslare line at times from what I have read.

All a passengers has to do is press the emergency intercom to speak with driver and he can view anything onboard using the CCTV and can easily advise the following station of the problem and gaurds can meet the train.

and thats to be commended but sligo is one of the lucky ones,
places like rosslare/wexford still have an infrequent service outside rush-hour with gaps of 4 and 5 hours between some services, and as mentioned limerick but don't they have a more frequent service by changing off the cork train with it being hourly?

Limerick has the most services from Heuston when including connections at Limerick J.

dirtynosebeps

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

Don't forget, we taxpayers are essentially paying their wages via the millions in subsidies IE receives.

Forest Demon wrote: »

I told him to have some manors in dealing with the people who are paying his wages and he threatened to throw me off the train. I complained about it and never even got a reply.

whatever you feel about their employees or any employee for that matter please bear in mind you do not pay their wages. it's like going to a supermarket and saying to staff "you have to be nice to me because i pay your wages". thats like waving a red rag to a bull. if someone came up to me giving me that speil they'd be told in no uncertain terms where to go. in other words F...Off. if i was an employer and found out something like what demon said was said to my staff member i'd be the same and just not reply to the complaint. i love replies like the ones above. people are rude to the employees, report them and expect some sort of come back. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:.

Judgement Day

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Anti social behaviour is not widespread across the Network, its mainly in the Dublin region. There is always the few exceptions like Waterford services on Sundays and problems on Rosslare line at times from what I have read.

All a passengers has to do is press the emergency intercom to speak with driver and he can view anything onboard using the CCTV and can easily advise the following station of the problem and gaurds can meet the train.



Limerick has the most services from Heuston when including connections at Limerick J.

Ah, I see, it's a bit like having an Eircom Phonewatch alarm then - the alarm goes off and a team of gardai are instantly despatched ....are we living in the same country? :rolleyes:

Dublin Spotter

Ah, I see, it's a bit like having an Eircom Phonewatch alarm then - the alarm goes off and a team of gardai are instantly despatched ....are we living in the same country?

No need to be smart about it but if the problem is serous enough then the gards would be instantly despatched as in all cirstances.

Over the last few years the gaurds have being required a lot for people who are getting on the Dublin train at Kilkenny. The garuds have being called when train was moving and they board once the doors were opend at the following station and removed passengers without delaying the train.

bazza1

450 jobs will go due to Voluntary Severance and natural wastage. This will be difficult due to the fact that most of the staff aged 55+ are already gone!

• No services are being cut. Lesser profitable or loss making services will not be cut or reduced because Veradkar hasnt the balls to sanction this. Vote loser!
• Why nor charge SW card hoders €5-10 for intercity travel instead of free. Vote loser.
• No salary increases since 2008.
• Moratorium on recruitment.
• Contract workers are not having contracts renewed.
• Work is being outsourced, often at a higher true cost.
• Staff are being redeployed wher needed and this is ongoing.
• Fuel costs are massive and rising, Not in IE control.

Please, all IE bashers, realise that IE staff,in my opinion, are generally hard working and are working in a difficult environment, like many areas in Ireland. Its easy to take cheap shots.

robd

liger wrote: »

BE Next in to be told about cuts and then DB at the end of next week.

The accounts of Bus Eireann, Dublin Bus and IE are all public information, available from their websites.

The truth is that both Bus Eireann and Dublin Bus are in a much much better state than IE. Their wage structures are considerably lower, and they carry considerably more passengers. Obviously comparing intercity and suburban travel is a bit apples and oranges but at the end of the day it comes down to subsidy + what they take in in fares = costs.

Trhiggy83

bazza1 wrote: »

450 jobs will go due to Voluntary Severance and natural wastage. This will be difficult due to the fact that most of the staff aged 55+ are already gone!

• No services are being cut. Lesser profitable or loss making services will not be cut or reduced because Veradkar hasnt the balls to sanction this. Vote loser!
• Why nor charge SW card hoders €5-10 for intercity travel instead of free. Vote loser.
• No salary increases since 2008.
• Moratorium on recruitment.
• Contract workers are not having contracts renewed.
• Work is being outsourced, often at a higher true cost.
• Staff are being redeployed wher needed and this is ongoing.
• Fuel costs are massive and rising, Not in IE control.

Please, all IE bashers, realise that IE staff,in my opinion, are generally hard working and are working in a difficult environment, like many areas in Ireland. Its easy to take cheap shots.

Incremental yearly pay increases are still taking place throughout the company

Trhiggy83

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I think it could be voluntary and contracts not being renewed .

Fixed term contract staff throughout the company have had their contracts breached and have been forced to take redundancy. This wasnt reported by the company as they didnt want a collective redundancy situation to arise.

bazza1

My pay increment stopped 8 years ago. Most colleagues have completed their increments at this stage. Most positions in IE clerical range from 3 year increments to 7 year. Across the board? Agreed allowances are again being cut. Overtime is also very tight or non existant.

bazza1

Trhiggy83 wrote: »

Fixed term contract staff throughout the company have had their contracts breached and have been forced to take redundancy. This wasnt reported by the company as they didnt want a collective redundancy situation to arise.

How were contracts breached? I know some great contract staff who had to leave when their fixed term expired. They were not forced to go.

Trhiggy83

bazza1 wrote: »

How were contracts breached? I know some great contract staff who had to leave when their fixed term expired. They were not forced to go.

Not all contracts had expired, and yes they were forced to go therefore the contracts were breached.

bazza1

If that is the case, they have recourse to the courts for breach of contract. Is this happening?

Judgement Day

bazza1 - I take it from your comments that you're employed by CIE/IE? I have no doubt that most CIE/IE employees go about their required duties with due diligence but, in many cases, their duties have disappeared while their positions remain. The trouble is that nobody represents the users interests, the unions represent their members and don't give a damn about the future of the railways as long as their members get the appropriate severance packages when they lose their jobs; senior management just drift off to other State organisations while the messers at the top receive generous golden handshakes. The public see rising fares, cutbacks in services, and the railway daily becomes less relevant to a growing number of people. CIE is no longer fit for purpose, if it ever was, and a new organisation with the workers having a vested interest in the success of the business is needed. However, this is Ireland where talk is cheap and nothing is going to change anytime soon.

n97 mini

Sounds like they're downsizing rather than axing people. Lot of hoo-ha about nothing really.

Heisenberg1

Savings can be made by reducing 8car Darts to 4car at all off peak times and at weekends,unless big events are on likewise the same with commuter trains end all empty passenger traffic run trains in service which would increase train paths but would not increase the cost base any further. Small changes can reap big results. Provide the service and people will use it. Maybe then IE might start to recruit again win win for everybody.

bazza1

JD
I do work for IE. I earn just above the National average earnings after 29 years service.
My workload has increased over the last 3 years due to a shortage of staff in our department.
I honestly dont know of any staff in my location that are employed with nothing to do!
Maybe those folk in the canteen eating strawberries and quaffing champagne all day need to be checked out!
We always come back to providing a service or being cost effective. Despite increased outsourcing and staff reductions, costs still rise. If we make savings with our austerity measures, further cuts in subvention will occur and we are back to square one.
All our internal departmental budgets are cut again with the money transferred to operations so that passengers do not suffer drop in service of the high safety standards that exist in IE.
The privatisation chestnut will continue to be the elephant in the room. Any fool can run Dublin- Belfast, Dublin - Cork, peak DART and make a profit. We are a small railway by Euro standards so it will be difficult to find a buyer who would not profiteer and asset strip the company. Varadkar wants to divest the Government of its responsibility to Irish transport. We see the same with Dublin Corporation and the waste collection fiasco!

Trhiggy83

Trhiggy83 wrote: »

The quicker the rail industry is privatized the better, you will only see a company that is run like a proper business then.

Expect everything to close except Dublin-Cork, the DART and the Dublin Commuter services if that happens.

Andremac96

the government should pay to keep them in jobs its a win win for them no more people on the dole and tax still coming in

Andremac96

bazza1 wrote: »

JD
I do work for IE. I earn just above the National average earnings after 29 years service.
My workload has increased over the last 3 years due to a shortage of staff in our department.
I honestly dont know of any staff in my location that are employed with nothing to do!
Maybe those folk in the canteen eating strawberries and quaffing champagne all day need to be checked out!
We always come back to providing a service or being cost effective. Despite increased outsourcing and staff reductions, costs still rise. If we make savings with our austerity measures, further cuts in subvention will occur and we are back to square one.
All our internal departmental budgets are cut again with the money transferred to operations so that passengers do not suffer drop in service of the high safety standards that exist in IE.
The privatisation chestnut will continue to be the elephant in the room. Any fool can run Dublin- Belfast, Dublin - Cork, peak DART and make a profit. We are a small railway by Euro standards so it will be difficult to find a buyer who would not profiteer and asset strip the company. Varadkar wants to divest the Government of its responsibility to Irish transport. We see the same with Dublin Corporation and the waste collection fiasco!

if you dont mind me asking how much would you get after 29 years

THENORTHSIDER

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

I've been dreaming of this day for years. IE's bloated workforce mostly consists of (in my experience) rude, poorly educated, middle-aged men who have held the job since they inherited it from their fathers after they dropped out of school aged 14. The company is notoriously difficult to break into, especially for educated college graduates. Management will see you as a threat to their own cushy job.

Don't forget, we taxpayers are essentially paying their wages via the millions in subsidies IE receives. So a saving for the company is a saving for us. Vending machines are far more efficient for ticket sales, as seen in London, Toronto, NY and practically every other city in the world. The unions are only preventing progress to protect their increasingly redundant jobs.

Wish I had you as my boss:eek:

kc56

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Limerick has the most services from Heuston when including connections at Limerick J.

I was thinking of the direct services that were cut back a few years ago to save costs. They could come back if IE make the Cork services faster by reducing stops.

Guy:Incognito

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

Vote yes for investment and jobs

Yep, a bloated public sector is exactly what we need, they must be stopped from shedding staff............