450 job losses announced at Iarnród Éireann

Run_to_da_hills

How come this news was brought in after the voting ?

So it looks like more than the 2700's being axed, I wonder how many of these jobs will come from the top?

The job losses, which the company says are part of a cost containment programme aimed at tackling a deficit of €45.3m, represent almost 11% of the company’s workforce.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0601/450-job-losses-announced-at-iarnrod-eireann.html

Mycroft H

I'm just surprised it didn't come sooner.

snickerpuss

I was surprised they've lost a third of their workforce since 2003. They seem to be counting on redundancies to make up the 450.

admiralofthefleet

Vote yes for investment and jobs

starviewadams

Terrible that people will be losing their jobs,especially in todays economic environment,but this was inevitable for a company in sharp decline.

Captain Chaos

Saves the company money but it's another 450 on the dole, not paying tax and adding to the national debt. Robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Judgement Day

It will probably be bridge inspectors, track maintenance crews etc.etc. with some more clerical staff taken on to deal with the increased administration needed for dealing with redundancy payments and pensions. :rolleyes:

BlueCam

admiralofthefleet wrote: »

Vote yes for investment and jobs

I'm sorry? "Investment" is not piling €45m per year in subsidies into a company that is so chronically/comically inefficient that it can get rid of 450 staff with little impact on its actual services to customers. If "austerity" would finally lead to the privatisation of CIE, it can't come soon enough.

highlydebased

The company needs to be much leaner.

If it is done by voluntary redundancy it is quite possible that many of near retiring age will leave- so not adding to the dole queue...

Run_to_da_hills

Most of these job losses will more than likely be from over counter ticket sales.

NFC phone & Smart cards will no doubt take over paper tickets soon, these can be topped up on line or on the move once registered.

The_Wrecker

highlydebased wrote: »

The company needs to be much leaner.

If it is done by voluntary redundancy it is quite possible that many of near retiring age will leave- so not adding to the dole queue...

Weve been hacking them down for a few years now, not many aged 56/57 upwards. The deal will be aimed at the 55 and younger group that can afford to go. The pension changes could be what makes them go. BUT to what, means tested dole?

CIE

BlueCam wrote: »

If "austerity" would finally lead to the privatisation of CIE, it can't come soon enough

Be careful what you wish for...that could subsequently lead to the acquisition of the whole thing by Deutsche Bahn, and they look out for their own country first while bleeding the assets of their overseas acquisitions dry. If you can protect against that, you'd have an excellent point about privatisation by itself, i.e. besides the whole matter being that "austerity" is not (note that the only one that gets richer is Germany while the rest of Europe gets poorer).

SMASH THE UNIONS

I've been dreaming of this day for years. IE's bloated workforce mostly consists of (in my experience) rude, poorly educated, middle-aged men who have held the job since they inherited it from their fathers after they dropped out of school aged 14. The company is notoriously difficult to break into, especially for educated college graduates. Management will see you as a threat to their own cushy job.

Don't forget, we taxpayers are essentially paying their wages via the millions in subsidies IE receives. So a saving for the company is a saving for us. Vending machines are far more efficient for ticket sales, as seen in London, Toronto, NY and practically every other city in the world. The unions are only preventing progress to protect their increasingly redundant jobs.

SMASH THE UNIONS

Captain Chaos wrote: »

Saves the company money but it's another 450 on the dole, not paying tax and adding to the national debt. Robbing Peter to pay Paul.

Why can't they re-train, as many private sector workers had to do to find employment. What if everybody waited around for the government to provide them with a job catering to their specific skill set (or unskilled set in this case). A bit of initiative will get one far in life. Drown or learn to swim.

CIE

bain na ceardchumainn wrote: »

Why can't they re-train, as many private sector workers had to do to find employment. What if everybody waited around for the government to provide them with a job catering to their specific skill set (or unskilled set in this case). A bit of initiative will get one far in life. Drown or learn to swim

You live under the social market economy now; that's by EU treaty and therefore EU law. That is not a free market where entreprenurial spirit can thrive and everyone has a shot at making it so long as they take it.

Retraining has to be paid for, and by whom? Who is going to provide the retraining, and what jobs in the private sector will be available? Lots of retraining going on in Ireland, but they seem suited to jobs in Germany, so is the answer to restart the trend of emigration? because that never helped Ireland's economy.

drunkmonkey

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Most of these job losses will more than likely be from over counter ticket sales.

NFC phone & Smart cards will no doubt take over paper tickets soon, these can be topped up on line or on the move once registered.

Great news for fattys, much easier to get tickets, no effort involved. Hopefully technology will replace all jobs someday so we can all live in fatty bliss on the internet.

Terrontress

drunkmonkey wrote: »

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Most of these job losses will more than likely be from over counter ticket sales.

NFC phone & Smart cards will no doubt take over paper tickets soon, these can be topped up on line or on the move once registered.

Great news for fattys, much easier to get tickets, no effort involved. Hopefully technology will replace all jobs someday so we can all live in fatty bliss on the internet.

You may have a point with some other industries but I'd hardly think of queueing for 5 minutes to buy a ticket from the sole open window as a good workout.

The decline of the railway due to high car ownership and a modern and uncongested motorway network is inevitable. I suppose staff are one of the easiest ways to cut a few million costs off your P&L without much effort.

Hopefully everyone who goes will be delighted with their opportunity.

Do IÉ pensioners continue to get free travel?

gsxr1

BlueCam wrote: »

I'm sorry? "Investment" is not piling €45m per year in subsidies into a company that is so chronically/comically inefficient that it can get rid of 450 staff with little impact on its actual services to customers. If "austerity" would finally lead to the privatisation of CIE, it can't come soon enough.

You may eat those words if it happens. Anyway. Who would buy it?
The network still needs massive amounts of money each year on track maintenance. No point buying a fleet of rolling stock and then halving the budget on Per-way and bridge works. Which I believe would happen.

There has been massive cost cutting exercises in the last year already. I hate to think what more will do . Just because ticket sales are down(because less people are going to work), we should not abandon our railway system. We will need it more as things get better.

Forest Demon

Most of the ticket inspectors and staff in I come into contact with are ignorant pigs. I have seen them being really rude to old people and women with prams and children etc.

In my local station here would not be anybody in the station around lunch time or on the weekends and the ticket machine is not working half the time. Then some ignorant fug ticket inspector would come up and that giving grief to all the people who had not got tickets. It has happened a few times. The last time he was so rude to a girl with a baby. I told him to have some manors in dealing with the people who are paying his wages and he threatened to throw me off the train. I complained about it and never even got a reply.

I hope some of them get the boot. They should be sacked, never mind redundancy.

foggy_lad

Forest Demon wrote: »

Most of the ticket inspectors and staff in I come into contact with are ignorant pigs. I have seen them being really rude to old people and women with prams and children etc.

In my local station here would not be anybody in the station around lunch time or on the weekends and the ticket machine is not working half the time. Then some ignorant fug ticket inspector would come up and that giving grief to all the people who had not got tickets. It has happened a few times. The last time he was so rude to a girl with a baby. I told him to have some manors in dealing with the people who are paying his wages and he threatened to throw me off the train. I complained about it and never even got a reply.

I hope some of them get the boot. They should be sacked, never mind redundancy.

Most of the Inspectors and staff of all the CIE group of companies are the exact opposite to what you claim. But as with all sections of the community and society there are always going to be a certain Quota of ignorant bone idle time crunchers who bring their trade/job/profession into disrepute. they are just there to pass the time as they know they cant be sacked or made redundant because of the strength of their unions.

liger

BE Next in to be told about cuts and then DB at the end of next week.

corktina

It makes me wonder how IE can cut 450 jobs without cutting services.

IF THEY CAN, then it just goes to prove what a bloated waste of money they have always been.

dowlingm

This has been a charming thread so far. Even if you can't stomach your hatred of the IE workers (and shortly the rest of CIE) consider the effect on the shops and businesses that will now have a customer on severance window-shopping wistfully and wondering will it last as government benefits are pushed out to older age eligibilities.

It's a sad commentary on how the Irish electorate operates that the government has to sell a treaty with "jobs" but force deferral of cuts - not the first time. In this once again we see how CIE are just political tools without the freedom of action enjoyed by the privateers - how many thousands would the CIE companies have saved if they had been able to announce cuts on their schedule and not deferred at the behest of a Minister (and I don't blame Varadkar - ANY minister would have done likewise, they are prisoners of their Humphreys, I'm merely noting that when the rubber hit the road despite his "straight talking" persona he is just like Dempsey et al before him)

As for the 450 - there's several jobs to be found in either closing or automating Limerick Junction-Waterford, Waterford Yard and Killonan Cabin-Ballybrophy but surely there isn't 450. The rest of the lines are mostly central control with the odd manual LC like Buttevant. So either massive cuts in service are coming or what's going to happen is IE are going to contractorise more PerWay, reducing their own headcount which makes the media vultures happy but which doesn't make much change to the net. As it stands who will bet against some head office folks being severed and then hired back as consultants?

Ben D Bus

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

The company is notoriously difficult to break into, especially for educated college graduates.

Sorry but that's total garbage.

SMASH THE UNIONS

Ben D Bus wrote: »

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

The company is notoriously difficult to break into, especially for educated college graduates.

Sorry but that's total garbage.

Like I said, it's my personal experience. In my local station it's been the same group of hagged, grumpy faces behind the ticket counter and on the platforms for donkey's years. If you can link to graduate positions being advertised for IE I will retract my statement.

Judgement Day

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

Like I said, it's my personal experience. In my local station it's been the same group of hagged, grumpy faces behind the ticket counter and on the platforms for donkey's years. If you can link to graduate positions being advertised for IE I will retract my statement.

Why on earth would CIE/IE need to employ graduates as station staff?

gsxr1

dowlingm wrote: »

So either massive cuts in service are coming or what's going to happen is IE are going to contractorise more PerWay, reducing their own headcount which makes the media vultures happy but which doesn't make much change to the net. As it stands who will bet against some head office folks being severed and then hired back as consultants?

This is simply not true. Contractors, who can lose there job in a second, out- preform by far most staff who cant be sacked.
Result equals much more productivity.
Contractors with IR supervision is whats happening now.

Im guessing there is going to be more of it in the future.

n97 mini

Are these real job losses or early retirements/voluntary redundancies where people leave by choice as they will be better off elsewhere?

The_Wrecker

n97 mini wrote: »

Are these real job losses or early retirements/voluntary redundancies where people leave by choice as they will be better off elsewhere?

It starts off as Job losses, then they discuss and 'Tweek' it (that word again!) to guys that want out with a lump. Many who want to go early and have been a credit to the company and a few who have done the customers no favours and wont be missed.

The_Wrecker

corktina wrote: »

It makes me wonder how IE can cut 450 jobs without cutting services.

IF THEY CAN, then it just goes to prove what a bloated waste of money they have always been.

They need to balance things out more, 5 lads in Dun laoghaire doing their bit. 0 in Killiney 0 in Shankill...........Because of shortages to cover Holidays or meal breaks.
But this shows again the auto ticket system can work!

Hilly Bill

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

I've been dreaming of this day for years. IE's bloated workforce mostly consists of (in my experience) rude, poorly educated, middle-aged men who have held the job since they inherited it from their fathers after they dropped out of school aged 14. The company is notoriously difficult to break into, especially for educated college graduates. Management will see you as a threat to their own cushy job.

Don't forget, we taxpayers are essentially paying their wages via the millions in subsidies IE receives. So a saving for the company is a saving for us. Vending machines are far more efficient for ticket sales, as seen in London, Toronto, NY and practically every other city in the world. The unions are only preventing progress to protect their increasingly redundant jobs.

Shame on you if you have been dreaming of people loosing their jobs.
There will be no saving for you, you will still be paying the same amount of tax if you are paying any at all.
Have you ever tried looking for work there?

Hilly Bill

n97 mini wrote: »

Are these real job losses or early retirements/voluntary redundancies where people leave by choice as they will be better off elsewhere?

I think it could be voluntary and contracts not being renewed .

Trhiggy83

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I think it could be voluntary and contracts not being renewed .

There is lots of permanent workers in Irish Rail who don't actually have any work to do at the moment and the tax payer is picking up the Bill each month paying these people. It is not their fault because they are permanent employees and protected by the unions. I think this needs to be pointed out to Leo Varadker.

Why public sector jobs get such protection is beyond belief seen as the country is on its knees. The only reason large cuts cant be made within Irish rail is because the rail network would come to a standstill with strikes. The cuts should be made now and redundancies should be as soon as possible. The rest of the country is suffering so no one should be able to hold the country to ransom at the minute. The Croke park agreement said no redundancies should take place that is why voluntary redundancy is being suggested.


The company needs to restructure radically and get rid of the workers that are not needed. Its almost criminal to believe that there is people in the company get well paid but don't actually have any work to do currently. Imagine you were picking up 4k a month for doing nothing, i bet you wouldnt complain either.

The problem with the company is within, as the very people who need to restructure the company are a part of the problem. The quicker the rail industry is privatized the better, you will only see a company that is run like a proper business then.

Heisenberg1

Trhiggy83 wrote: »

There is lots of permanent workers in Irish Rail who don't actually have any work to do at the moment and the tax payer is picking up the Bill each month paying these people. It is not their fault because they are permanent employees and protected by the unions. I think this needs to be pointed out to Leo Varadker.

Why public sector jobs get such protection is beyond belief seen as the country is on its knees. The only reason large cuts cant be made within Irish rail is because the rail network would come to a standstill with strikes. The cuts should be made now and redundancies should be as soon as possible. The rest of the country is suffering so no one should be able to hold the country to ransom at the minute. The Croke park agreement said no redundancies should take place that is why voluntary redundancy is being suggested.

The company needs to restructure radically and get rid of the workers that are not needed. Its almost criminal to believe that there is people in the company get well paid but don't actually have any work to do currently. Imagine you were picking up 4k a month for doing nothing, i bet you wouldnt complain either.

The problem with the company is within, as the very people who need to restructure the company are a part of the problem. The quicker the rail industry is privatized the better, you will only see a company that is run like a proper business then.

Intersting some examples please of these non working employess? Are IE part of the croke park agreement??

end of the road

Forest Demon wrote: »

Most of the ticket inspectors and staff in I come into contact with are ignorant pigs. I have seen them being really rude to old people and women with prams and children etc

maybe they were in the way and taking up the isles. theyl get over it.

Forest Demon wrote: »

The last time he was so rude to a girl with a baby. I told him to have some manors in dealing with the people who are paying his wages and he threatened to throw me off the train.

maybe she didn't have a valid ticket
good for him, i'd do the same in his situation, you don't interfere with railway staff doing their job.

kc56

The Croke Park Agreement does not apply to IE; it only applies to government departments and agencies not to semi-state bodies and companies like IE!

IE have been reducing staff numbers by about 100-150 per year so 450 over 4 years is a continuation of this. IE need less staff due to increasing automation and other efficiencies such as there is no requirement for guards on trains and the widespread use of driver only trains. In addition a lot of work is now contracted out to the private sector - catering, cleaning, engine maintenance, some track maintenance and most major projects. Switching to ICRs has also reduced the need for shunting staff at terminal stations except where freight still operates.

It should also be remembered that IE now operate more intercity services than before, except to Limerick, with diminished state subsidies. Not too long ago there were 3 services to Sligo; today there are 8.

Hilly Bill

end of the road wrote: »

maybe they were in the way and taking up the isles. theyl get over it.

maybe she didn't have a valid ticket
good for him, i'd do the same in his situation, you don't interfere with railway staff doing their job.

The gas part is that some actually believe that they pay the wages
And some of those dont even work or pay taxes.

end of the road

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

I've been dreaming of this day for years. IE's bloated workforce mostly consists of (in my experience) rude, poorly educated, middle-aged men who have held the job since they inherited it from their fathers after they dropped out of school aged 14. The company is notoriously difficult to break into, especially for educated college graduates. Management will see you as a threat to their own cushy job.
The unions are only preventing progress to protect their increasingly redundant jobs.

the railway is in their blood its all they know.
wouldn't you want someone to look out for your job all though i forgot those in the private sector will put up with anything just to keep a job, some people have their pride and won't. but begrudgers like you will never understand

IE needs people who know about the workings of the railway not educated college graduates unless they have a qualification relevant. maybe those educated college graduates who did apply just weren't up to the job or not what IE was looking for.

end of the road

kc56 wrote: »

there is no requirement for guards on trains and the widespread use of driver only trains

their should be. a driver has enough to do driving the train without having to be responsible for dealing with passengers should their be a problem. the guard could be a ticket inspector as well. driver only trains may work in other countries but i doubt they have the same problem with anti-social uncivilised filth who can sometimes be found aboard our railways, or if so their is a system willing to deal with them.

kc56 wrote: »

It should also be remembered that IE now operate more intercity services than before, except to Limerick, with diminished state subsidies. Not too long ago there were 3 services to Sligo; today there are 8.

and thats to be commended but sligo is one of the lucky ones,
places like rosslare/wexford still have an infrequent service outside rush-hour with gaps of 4 and 5 hours between some services, and as mentioned limerick but don't they have a more frequent service by changing off the cork train with it being hourly?

Jamie2k9

Anti social behaviour is not widespread across the Network, its mainly in the Dublin region. There is always the few exceptions like Waterford services on Sundays and problems on Rosslare line at times from what I have read.

All a passengers has to do is press the emergency intercom to speak with driver and he can view anything onboard using the CCTV and can easily advise the following station of the problem and gaurds can meet the train.

and thats to be commended but sligo is one of the lucky ones,
places like rosslare/wexford still have an infrequent service outside rush-hour with gaps of 4 and 5 hours between some services, and as mentioned limerick but don't they have a more frequent service by changing off the cork train with it being hourly?

Limerick has the most services from Heuston when including connections at Limerick J.

dirtynosebeps

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

Don't forget, we taxpayers are essentially paying their wages via the millions in subsidies IE receives.

Forest Demon wrote: »

I told him to have some manors in dealing with the people who are paying his wages and he threatened to throw me off the train. I complained about it and never even got a reply.

whatever you feel about their employees or any employee for that matter please bear in mind you do not pay their wages. it's like going to a supermarket and saying to staff "you have to be nice to me because i pay your wages". thats like waving a red rag to a bull. if someone came up to me giving me that speil they'd be told in no uncertain terms where to go. in other words F...Off. if i was an employer and found out something like what demon said was said to my staff member i'd be the same and just not reply to the complaint. i love replies like the ones above. people are rude to the employees, report them and expect some sort of come back. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:.

Judgement Day

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Anti social behaviour is not widespread across the Network, its mainly in the Dublin region. There is always the few exceptions like Waterford services on Sundays and problems on Rosslare line at times from what I have read.

All a passengers has to do is press the emergency intercom to speak with driver and he can view anything onboard using the CCTV and can easily advise the following station of the problem and gaurds can meet the train.



Limerick has the most services from Heuston when including connections at Limerick J.

Ah, I see, it's a bit like having an Eircom Phonewatch alarm then - the alarm goes off and a team of gardai are instantly despatched ....are we living in the same country? :rolleyes:

Dublin Spotter

Ah, I see, it's a bit like having an Eircom Phonewatch alarm then - the alarm goes off and a team of gardai are instantly despatched ....are we living in the same country?

No need to be smart about it but if the problem is serous enough then the gards would be instantly despatched as in all cirstances.

Over the last few years the gaurds have being required a lot for people who are getting on the Dublin train at Kilkenny. The garuds have being called when train was moving and they board once the doors were opend at the following station and removed passengers without delaying the train.

bazza1

450 jobs will go due to Voluntary Severance and natural wastage. This will be difficult due to the fact that most of the staff aged 55+ are already gone!

• No services are being cut. Lesser profitable or loss making services will not be cut or reduced because Veradkar hasnt the balls to sanction this. Vote loser!
• Why nor charge SW card hoders €5-10 for intercity travel instead of free. Vote loser.
• No salary increases since 2008.
• Moratorium on recruitment.
• Contract workers are not having contracts renewed.
• Work is being outsourced, often at a higher true cost.
• Staff are being redeployed wher needed and this is ongoing.
• Fuel costs are massive and rising, Not in IE control.

Please, all IE bashers, realise that IE staff,in my opinion, are generally hard working and are working in a difficult environment, like many areas in Ireland. Its easy to take cheap shots.

robd

liger wrote: »

BE Next in to be told about cuts and then DB at the end of next week.

The accounts of Bus Eireann, Dublin Bus and IE are all public information, available from their websites.

The truth is that both Bus Eireann and Dublin Bus are in a much much better state than IE. Their wage structures are considerably lower, and they carry considerably more passengers. Obviously comparing intercity and suburban travel is a bit apples and oranges but at the end of the day it comes down to subsidy + what they take in in fares = costs.

Trhiggy83

bazza1 wrote: »

450 jobs will go due to Voluntary Severance and natural wastage. This will be difficult due to the fact that most of the staff aged 55+ are already gone!

• No services are being cut. Lesser profitable or loss making services will not be cut or reduced because Veradkar hasnt the balls to sanction this. Vote loser!
• Why nor charge SW card hoders €5-10 for intercity travel instead of free. Vote loser.
• No salary increases since 2008.
• Moratorium on recruitment.
• Contract workers are not having contracts renewed.
• Work is being outsourced, often at a higher true cost.
• Staff are being redeployed wher needed and this is ongoing.
• Fuel costs are massive and rising, Not in IE control.

Please, all IE bashers, realise that IE staff,in my opinion, are generally hard working and are working in a difficult environment, like many areas in Ireland. Its easy to take cheap shots.

Incremental yearly pay increases are still taking place throughout the company

Trhiggy83

Hilly Bill wrote: »

I think it could be voluntary and contracts not being renewed .

Fixed term contract staff throughout the company have had their contracts breached and have been forced to take redundancy. This wasnt reported by the company as they didnt want a collective redundancy situation to arise.

bazza1

My pay increment stopped 8 years ago. Most colleagues have completed their increments at this stage. Most positions in IE clerical range from 3 year increments to 7 year. Across the board? Agreed allowances are again being cut. Overtime is also very tight or non existant.

bazza1

Trhiggy83 wrote: »

Fixed term contract staff throughout the company have had their contracts breached and have been forced to take redundancy. This wasnt reported by the company as they didnt want a collective redundancy situation to arise.

How were contracts breached? I know some great contract staff who had to leave when their fixed term expired. They were not forced to go.

Trhiggy83

bazza1 wrote: »

How were contracts breached? I know some great contract staff who had to leave when their fixed term expired. They were not forced to go.

Not all contracts had expired, and yes they were forced to go therefore the contracts were breached.

bazza1

If that is the case, they have recourse to the courts for breach of contract. Is this happening?