Knock Airport

Locker10a

JCX BXC wrote: »

VG31 wrote: »

That's definitely a possibility. KLM Cityhopper already fly to lots of small regional airports in the UK including Durham, Humberside, Norwich, Southampton and Inverness so if it can work there I don't see why it couldn't work here as well.

Did Lufthansa fly from Knock a few years ago?

KLM are a new addition to Dublin and first entry into the Irish market. It'll be a long time if ever until they go to knock.

Lufthansa never flew from Knock, it was Germanwings flying a weekly route to Cologne.

If Knock play the right cards theres no reason why KLM wouldn't consider NOC-AMS. 
Im sure thousands of people living west of the river shannon travel to Dublin everyday to catch connecting flights via US and European Hubs to all corners of the world. Why shouldn't KLM tap into the market directly by offering these passengers world wide connections on flight originating in NOC. As mentioned they have the aircraft to do it, they have the global network, and operating to NOC wouldn't be hugely costly or difficult. It would just need good marketing and promotion, and KLM would probably have a whole section of the Irish market to themselves.

JCX BXC

Locker10a wrote: »

If Knock play the right cards theres no reason why KLM wouldn't consider NOC-AMS. 
Im sure thousands of people living west of the river shannon travel to Dublin everyday to catch connecting flights via US and European Hubs to all corners of the world. Why shouldn't KLM tap into the market directly by offering these passengers world wide connections on flight originating in NOC. As mentioned they have the aircraft to do it, they have the global network, and operating to NOC wouldn't be hugely costly or difficult. It would just need good marketing and promotion, and KLM would probably have a whole section of the Irish market to themselves.

Locker10a, as you suggest Amsterdam would likely be more suitable than Berlin, however with KLM cityhopper you'll be looking at at least several times per week (daily perhaps) otherwise they'd have no interest, and then you'd be looking at quite high fares. The reason these routes last in the regional UK airports is due to the amount of connections made through these flights, as many areas of the UK have poor connections to the US. This isn't the case for Ireland, as both Shannon and Dublin, as well as soon Cork and Belfast will have good connections to the US. Hence I don't see a business case for either a premium tourist market or a connection flight, so I don't see KLM Cityhopper arriving anytime soon.

Also, remember a very large portion of Knocks passengers come from or terminate at Galway, which is already covered by Shannon for the Hub/US market.

Jayop

Flights to Amsterdam would be awesome, both for the connections as was mentioned, but I think there'd be near enough support just for that as a destination in and of itself.

VG31

Connections to the US aren't the only viable reasons for these flights. Lots of people flew onwards to European or medium-haul destinations also.

I remember seeing a list of the top destinations for Lufthansa passengers from Dublin and apart from Tokyo and somewhere else the rest were in Europe or the Middle East (Moscow, Vienna, Belgrade, Kiev, Athens and Tel Aviv IIRC).

JCX BXC

VG31 wrote: »

Connections to the US aren't the only benefits of these flights. Lots of people flew onwards to European or medium-haul destinations also.

I remember seeing a list of the top destinations for Lufthansa passengers from Dublin and apart from Tokyo and somewhere else the rest were in Europe or the Middle East (Moscow, Vienna, Belgrade, Kiev, Athens and Tel Aviv IIRC).

That's because Dublin already serves a large amount of US destinations, whereas those regional UK airports mentioned don't serve any, and nor does any airport for quite a distance. Inverness for example. Even Newcastle for example. Both has much much much larger populations than any area in the west.

barry75

JCX BXC wrote: »

KLM are a new addition to Dublin and first entry into the Irish market. It'll be a long time if ever until they go to knock in my opinion.

Lufthansa never flew from Knock, it was Germanwings flying a weekly route to Cologne.

You are wrong Lufthansa did fly from Knock

JCX BXC

barry75 wrote: »

You are wrong Lufthansa did fly from Knock

On what route and when? I could be wrong but I don't recall Lufthansa ever flying from Knock.

barry75

It was back in 2012 operated to Dusseldorf every Saturday from May till the end of September

Locker10a

barry75 wrote: »

It was back in 2012 operated to Dusseldorf every Saturday from May till the end of September

Yeah you're correct actually I remember this

JCX BXC

http://on.irishtimes.com/smZq6Pi

Labour court case relating to unfair dismissal

Concerning for PR relations.

And separately

EI-CJX 757-200 operated Aer Lingus' charter from Knock to JFK today again (EI4111)

marno21

JCX BXC wrote: »

http://on.irishtimes.com/smZq6Pi

Labour court case relating to unfair dismissal

Concerning for PR relations.

And separately

EI-CJX 757-200 operated Aer Lingus' charter from Knock to JFK today again (EI4111)

Does this charter fly often? Fair play to the planners at Knock for having a foresight to build an airport with a runway suitable for transatlantic ops unlike certain other airports in the south of Ireland.

I presume SNN-BOS/SNN-JFK doesn't fly when this charter operates?

JCX BXC

marno21 wrote: »

Does this charter fly often? Fair play to the planners at Knock for having a foresight to build an airport with a runway suitable for transatlantic ops unlike certain other airports in the south of Ireland.

I presume SNN-BOS/SNN-JFK doesn't fly when this charter operates?

Charter flies very infrequently, iirc this is the second (possibly third) one ever, with the first being last year.

It also uses a Dublin based aircraft.

Do you remember a few years ago (about 10 at this stage) when FlyGlopeSpan operated flights from the UK via Knock to the US?

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/profits-soar-as-knock-airport-has-record-year-36296155.html

"Profits soar as Knock Airport has record year"

This is the best part "Numbers employed by the airport last year increased from 117 to 130 with staff costs increasing from €4.9m to €5.32m" Big employer for an economic black spot. Massive tax returns on government investment, unlike other airports down south. A vital connection for companies in the West of Ireland.

kub

Just with regard to your comment about airports down the South.

Have you thought at all that the number of them would have a negative effect on each other?

yew_tree

Great to see the airport doing well. It's a very important piece of infrastructure for Connacht. I have met countless people over the past few years from the UK who visited for a weekend (Westport for example).

You think they would visit if they had to fly into Dublin and drive over...? Would they hell. Would love to see how many estimated jobs the airport supports outside of the airport.

Jayop

kub wrote: »

Just with regard to your comment about airports down the South.

Have you thought at all that the number of them would have a negative effect on each other?

A huge effect probably but that doesn't change the point at all he made. Knock is well situated and is the closest proper airport for about a quarter of the country geographically and its booming as a result. Ryanair and knock are a great combo for us in this area.

kub

kub wrote: »

Just with regard to your comment about airports down the South.

Have you thought at all that the number of them would have a negative effect on each other?

Not really for Connacht, Dublin would be closer for alot of us. Knock airport is on the Mayo, Sligo, Roscommon border. But yes the three airports in the south so close to each other is a bit much.

marno21

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.independent.ie/business/irish/profits-soar-as-knock-airport-has-record-year-36296155.html

"Profits soar as Knock Airport has record year"

This is the best part "Numbers employed by the airport last year increased from 117 to 130 with staff costs increasing from €4.9m to €5.32m" Big employer for an economic black spot. Massive tax returns on government investment, unlike other airports down south. A vital connection for companies in the West of Ireland.

Other airports down south don't have departure levies in fairness.

But good to see regardless. Knock seems well able to sustain a respectable amount of routes

JCX BXC

There's no need to turn the success of the airport into another debate of us Vs other airports!

Great to see the sustainability of Knock, and it's promising to see that current routes have been 'cemented' and look to last into the future.

TopTec

On a selfish note I wish they could get a carrier to fly Bristol route in the winter. Ryanair used to, and seemed always busy.

TT

kub

JCX BXC wrote: »

There's no need to turn the success of the airport into another debate of us Vs other airports!

Great to see the sustainability of Knock, and it's promising to see that current routes have been 'cemented' and look to last into the future.

I was not trying to do that, it is great to see Knock getting on.
I was just replying to a point that was brought up about airports down south.

JCX BXC

kub wrote: »

I was not trying to do that, it is great to see Knock getting on.
I was just replying to a point that was brought up about airports down south.

I wasn't referring to you

Westernyelp

€15m investment begins on airport infrastructure

Locker10a

Westernyelp wrote: »

€15m investment begins on airport infrastructure

Any idea which infrastructure ?

JCX BXC

Locker10a wrote: »

Any idea which infrastructure ?

https://www.oceanfm.ie/2017/11/20/major-new-works-start-at-ireland-west-airport/


"Work to be completed between now and 2019 include upgrading of car parks, new toilet facilities, providing a covered aircraft passenger boarding stairs, remodelling of the immigration, arrivals and departures areas, and new flight information display screens.

There will also be improved retail and catering facilities, upgrading the existing runway instrument landing system and full resurfacing of the airports 2,400 metre runway, which is 30 years old."

notharrypotter

From the horse's mouth

• Resurfacing of Car Park Zone 5 resulting in 250 permanent surfaced car park spaces less than five minutes walk from the terminal
• Major upgrade of existing car park equipment to the latest state of the art equipment including the introduction of a number plate recognition system
• Construction and re-modelling of new toilet facilities at the airport
• Covered aircraft passenger boarding stairs for passengers boarding and disembarking aircraft
• Re-modelling of immigration and arrivals area creating increased circulation space for arriving passengers
• Upgrading to new flight information display screens across the airport terminal
• Upgrade and replenishment of ground handling equipment and safety and response vehicles
• Enhancements to the airport retail and catering facilities
• Construction of a new Tourist Welcome Centre adjacent to the arrivals area
• Introduction of new digital display screens throughout the airport facility
• Remodeling of departures area creating additional seating capacity and upgrading of furniture
• Upgrading of the existing runway instrument landing system (ILS) enabling enhanced navigation for pilots
• A full resurfacing of the airport’s 2,400m runway including taxiways and an upgrade of lighting system to LED

This year the airport has commenced a series of critical projects on the airports runway to maintain the highest standard of airport safety and operations. The work includes replacement of existing runway lighting and fittings, major airfield drainage programme, upgrading of the runways instrument landing system and other minor site works. It is planned that in 2019 work will commence on a €10m+ overlay of the airports 2.5km Runway. The current runway is 30 years old and work will involve a resurfacing of the entire runway ensuring this critical infrastructural asset is maintained to serve the region for the next 30 years.

Locker10a

All sounds fantastic, I'm surprised they aren't also expanding the apron slightly which I think will be useful in the future

NH2013

Anybody know exactly what work they're doing to upgrade the ILS? As I understand it runway 27 has a CAT II ILS, limited to manual landings as the terrain leading up to the threshold is too steep to allow normal Radio-Altimeter function, which would make a CAT III ILS redundant.

Is it perhaps an addition of an ILS approach to RWY 09, perhaps even CAT III on 09 to allow for Autolands with a more even, steady terrain profile in the approach segment?

JCX BXC

NH2013 wrote: »

Anybody know exactly what work they're doing to upgrade the ILS? As I understand it runway 27 has a CAT II ILS, limited to manual landings as the terrain leading up to the threshold is too steep to allow normal Radio-Altimeter function, which would make a CAT III ILS redundant.

Is it perhaps an addition of an ILS approach to RWY 09, perhaps even CAT III on 09 to allow for Autolands with a more even, steady terrain profile in the approach segment?

CATIII is expensive to put in, in my understanding, took quite a while for NOC to get investment for CAT II on 27.

Being honest CAT II seems to suffice most of the time, especially for an airport of it's size and traffic. Neither Cork (possibly due terrain issues) nor Shannon (don't think there's any issues here other than cost) have CAT III ILS, and investing in it at NOC on a runway likely to be rendered useless once the tailwind is above 10kts seems like a bit of a waste of money.

Airports like Shannon (low lying) often get fog from high pressure systems, with slack winds. This generally means you can use whatever runway you like as the wind isn't strong enough to cause issues on any runway.

However, Knock, being the most elevated airport in Ireland (203m), often gets fog from low cloud in low pressure systems (more often than from high pressure systems I would think, as this fog is slow to form in upland areas) which are often accompanied by wind. The predominant wind direction in Ireland is south west as most would know, so having CAT III ILS on RWY09 wouldn't make sense in my opinion.

Jayop

All the ils talk is miles over my head but the rest of the announcement is great. I agree that the apron seems really small especially if they're going to have 3 sets of covered boarding stairs (I'm imaging these as the wee tunnel from the gate to the plane?) the place is great generally but the arrival area is pig ugly now. In my experience that's generally the ugliest part of every airport though.