Irish Palestine Solidarity Campaign

Zebra3

lividduck wrote: »

Not to mention suicide bombing buses, firing thousands of rockets at schools,hospitals etc,sending parcel bombs...

When you are aware of the ethnic cleansing carried out in Palestine by zionist terror groups, you may begin to understand.

Nodin

lividduck wrote: »

A blockade which is NOT criminal, apart from hamas who says the blockade is criminal? Not the UN !

...don't suppose you could get back to me on this....
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78601268&postcount=229
ta.

Wild Bill

lividduck wrote: »

A blockade which is NOT criminal, apart from hamas who says the blockade is criminal? Not the UN !

The UN can't say squat about Israeli crimes because the US vetos everything.

Let's get real here.

Hamas is democratically elected and the siege of Gaza is a Crime against Humanity.

African dictators are before the ICC for lesser crimes than those perpetrated by the Zionist State :cool:

hatrickpatrick

Yamanoto wrote: »

Write an angry letter so, but a little perspective should give you pause for thought.

Don't think any party to the whole affair comes out of it well tbh.

WHAT perspective? With respect, I've been asking for some perspective for the last 2 days and I haven't yet been given any - what, if anything, was said, tweeted, posted, emailed or broadcast to this band which legitimately counts as "harassment" or "intimidation"?

I'm afraid without an answer to this question I have no option but to regard the story as BS. Innocent until proven guilty is still a core principle of democracy, I'm not going to believe allegations of bullying or harassment unless I see some actual evidence to corroborate them.

I hardly think this is an unreasonable stance.

Wild Bill

lividduck wrote: »

Not to mention suicide bombing buses, firing thousands of rockets at schools,hospitals etc,sending parcel bombs...

Personally, I would put no moral limit on the actions of a people who are resisting ethnic cleansing. It's a case of choosing the lesser evil.

Not to resist with all means available would be immoral. :cool:

golden lane

Wild Bill wrote: »

Personally, I would put no moral limit on the actions of a people who are resisting ethnic cleansing. It's a case of choosing the lesser evil.

Not to resist with all means available would be immoral. :cool:

agreed in principal......but it's a fact that the word terrorist can be used to justify virtually anything.......

when a group get the terrorist....rightly or wrongly, it loses the high ground.......

hard as it may be....i think hamas are doing themselves no favours by retaliating............

if unarmed resistance was taken up by the palestinian people....it would have more affect on world opinion, and more impotantly the people of the usa..........

every attack by hamas (though justified )...puts their cause back.......

wes

golden lane wrote: »

if unarmed resistance was taken up by the palestinian people....it would have more affect on world opinion, and more impotantly the people of the usa..........

Actually there is plenty of peaceful resistance in the West Bank. Plenty of hunger strikers in Israeli prisons right now, who are being ignored by Western media. Non-violent protests, where both Palestinians and Israelis jointly protests Israels land theft, and again ignored by the West. Even Fatah is working directly with Israeli security forces, and again largely ignored by the West. In the West Bank, plenty are trying to take the peaceful route, but for there effort they get more settlements and are ignored by the West.

Nodin

golden lane wrote: »

..............
if unarmed resistance was taken up by the palestinian people....it would have more affect on world opinion, and more impotantly the people of the usa..........
...............

The West Bank and the majority of Palestinian groups therein have been quiet for years now. It's got them nothing but the proverbial sore arse for their trouble.

Wild Bill

Nodin wrote: »

The West Bank and the majority of Palestinian groups therein have been quiet for years now. It's got them nothing but the proverbial sore arse for their trouble.

Yep. Sadly the Palestinians will have to wait another generation for the decline of the American Empire to really kick in - bar some US/Israeli mistake born of hubris - which can't be ruled out.

Ultimately I don't see any peaceful solution and the Israelis obviously can't win in the long run.

Armageddon is about the best they can hope for if they don't accept a Palestine with a Jewish minority and some restorative justice; hopefully not any more severe than the whites in South Africa suffered.

But that will depend on them realizing in time that the game is up.

IrishAm

Wild Bill wrote: »

hopefully not any more severe than the whites in South Africa suffered.

Actually, South Africa has treated its white population very fairly, all things considered.

RTE screened a fascinating documentary on modern day South Africa last night. Shoshozola Express.

wes wrote: »

Plenty of hunger strikers in Israeli prisons right now, who are being ignored by Western media.

Very true, Wes. 1,600 of them in total, I believe. Just to emphasise the enormity of this, two of the strikers have lasted longer without food than eight of the Irish hunger strikers who sacrificed their lives in 1981.

Which makes the lack of media coverage utterly baffling. Perhaps, though, the media does not wish to provoke the arab world? That is my guess.

Wild Bill

IrishAm wrote: »

Actually, South Africa has treated its white population very fairly, all things considered.

That was the point I was making - given what they did the whites, literally, got away with murder.

Which makes the lack of media coverage utterly baffling. Perhaps, though, the media does not wish to provoke the arab world? That is my guess.

Not the least bit baffling! The Western MSM habitually hypes the plight of victims of geopolitical adversaries and ignores that of the victims of geopolitical allies.

Just think of the coverage of Syria and Libya compared to Bahrain and Yeman.

The criticism of human rights abuses in China while ignoring the barbarous medieval regimes in Saudi and the Gulf states.

And so on and on.

Israel- and the determination of the US controlled West to protect it's land-grabbing and ethnic cleansing is at the epicenter of this hypocrisy.

lividduck

Nodin wrote: »

...don't suppose you could get back to me on this....
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78601268&postcount=229
ta.

Hi Nodin,
No I do not believe Israel should be colonizing the West bank, indeed I believe the West bank should form the centre of an Independent Palestian State, along with Gaza thus guarenteeing it access to the Sea.
I believe Jeruselem to be a unique city in tems of world culure and heritage being a holy place to Jews, Muslims, and Christians and that it should be administered directly by the UN.
I do not always agree with the acts of the Israeli government, acts like the use of phosphurous shells and cluster mumitions in Lebanon or the excessive use of force used against the Turkish activists attempting to breach the legal (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/sep/01/un-investigation-backs-israel-blockade-gaza ) blockade of Gaza.
However I do believe in the right of the State of Israel to exist, and to defend itself against aggression.
What I find offensive is that those who repeatedly attack Israel and its actions seem to find it easy to justify and excuse the the suicide bombings and persistant rocket attacks launched against it, and the persistant calls for the destruction of the state of Israel.
I personally have no problem condeming wrongdoing, regardless of who is guilty, what I have an issue with is the condemnation by many of one side in a conflict while excusing and justifying the acts of the other side.

lividduck

Wild Bill wrote: »

The UN can't say squat about Israeli crimes because the US vetos everything.

Let's get real here.

Hamas is democratically elected and the siege of Gaza is a Crime against Humanity.

African dictators are before the ICC for lesser crimes than those perpetrated by the Zionist State :cool:

Wrong according to the UN the blockade of gaza is legal.
Further, the veto only applies in the Security Council, it does not apply to the General Assembly or to the constituent organizations of the U.N.
I have no doubt that there are many within the Israeli administrations over the decades that have committed crimes, I wouldn't deign to attempt to justify them, however that also applies to the Palestinian side also (I presume you do realise that in any conflict there are at least two sides).

The Israeli

An article which has been published on Ynet today:
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4227636,00.html

Special: The war on Israel, Irish-style

Special report: Irish journalist slams silence of politicians in face of 'group anti-Semitism' mindset; says that in Ireland either one obeys anti-Israel orders of left-wing mind-thugs, or one is lynched

Kevin Myers
Published: 05.11.12, 00:09 / Israel Opinion


The most serious event of the past week wasn’t related to Prime Time’s libel of Father Kevin Reynolds, and it wasn’t what Cardinal Sean Brady did or didn’t do nearly 40 years ago. Far more serious than either for the health of this Republic – though connected to both by a sanctimonious tissue of lethal intolerance – was the intimidation of the band Dervish into cancelling a tour of Israel.

Dervish’s website was hit by venomous abuse from anti-Israeli activists, on the instructions of the Irish Palestinian Solidarity Group. Every bit as sinister as this has been the silence from politicians and “civil liberties groups”: the exception, of course, being Alan Shatter, who is Jewish. It was as if the intellectual thugs of the IPSG were trying to vindicate my recent suggestion that the largest threat to personal freedom these days comes not from government, but from single-interest pressure groups.

Tactics and techniques that would be called fascist by liberals if used against them were at the heart of the campaign against Dervish. For in the left-liberal culture, certain subjects are beyond the usual courtesies of a tolerant civilization, and instead may be subjected to outright bigotry and bullying. The legitimate targets for this salon-terrorism are the Catholic Church, American Republicans, and of course Israel.

So Prime Time’s libeling of Father Kevin Reynolds was not just a bizarre departure from some cultural norm, but actually was its very quintessence. In other words, when a black African woman and an Irish Catholic priest contradict one another, it is axiomatic that the white man must be lying. Indeed, the prevailing dogma rules that the opposite is quite simply impossible. With that contaminated mind-set at the helm, no wonder RTE sailed right into the iceberg upon a sunlit noon.

And one can go absolutely nowhere with this culture. It permits no conversation, no exchange of ideas and no freedom of speech. One complies, or one is lynched: take your pick. It is the liberal version of Sharia law: one obeys the instructions of the secular mullahs, and one hopes to have a peaceful life. But if you think peace results from the triumph of intolerance, just wait for the 4 am knock on your door – because sooner or later, the mind-thugs will be coming for you too.

And consider the deeper historical continuity within which the Boycott Israel campaign stands. This is the state whose Taoiseach went to offer his condolences on the tragic death of Herr Hitler just weeks after allied troops had liberated Buchenwald, Belsen and Dachau. This was the state that became a safe haven for Nazi war-criminals in the 1950s. This was the state where the Mayor of Limerick in 1970 praised the anti-Jewish boycott in the city in 1903, and far being expelled from the Labour Party, was re-elected TD for the party.

This was the last state in the European Union to exchange full diplomatic relations with Israel. This is the state which recently tolerated the day-long enactment of mock-executions of “Palestinians” by “Israelis” on its main shopping thoroughfare. No, there might not be any personal anti-Semitism in this Republic: but group anti-Semitism seems to have a secure place in the Irish psyche. And the handful of stupid Jews who are backing the Boycott Israel campaign clearly have absolutely no idea of the underlying (and no doubt subconscious) emotions beneath this Israelophobia.

For only such a truly deranged pathogen could single out Israel for a boycott, while in every other state in the region, there are mass violations of civil rights by government-authorized murder-gangs. In Egypt, Islamic mobs have killed hundreds of Christians, devastating Coptic communities whose roots predate the arrival of Islam. Before the catastrophic Anglo-French destruction of the Ottoman Empire, the largest single ethno-religious group in Baghdad were the Jews: and next came the Christians, who between them outnumbered the Sunnis, Shias and Kurds together.

Today, all non-Muslim ethnic groups are facing utter extinction in Iraq. The Jews are gone, and the few remaining Christians are clinging on by their eyelids. Across the Arab world,ven fundamentalism is triumphant, as “honor-killings” – that truly moronic oxymoron - achieve a lawful status in Egypt and Jordan, as they soon will – make no mistake - in Libya and Syria. Women caught in “adultery” – e when raped - and homosexuals may legitimately be killed by self-appointed executioners.

The one country in the Middle East that does not recognize the deranged and barbaric precepts of Sharia law is Israel. Yet this is the one and only state in the region that the Irish Left not merely wishes to stigmatize, but they want to terrorize the rest of us into stigmatizing also. And to judge from the abject silence of our politicians, they seem to be succeeding admirably.

Wibbs

Kevin Myers? Seriously? While he makes some points I would agree with, even a stopped clock is right twice a day and Myers is one such timepiece.

wes

The Israeli wrote: »

An article which has been published on Ynet today:

A Kevin Myers article......... Myers is a professional **** stirrer. He says stuff to get a reaction and nothing more. Anything the man says is essentially worthless.

Also, we are on page 19 and multiple requests for links to the so called "venom" have yet to produced. The only conclusion is that no such "venom" actually occured, and this is the typical smear campaign from supporters of Israel. Simply put, after 19 pages no evidence of "venom" has been produced and we have the same few posterS insisting that it does, all the while ignore again and again request for example of such "venom".

Also, typical whataboutery from Myers as well, where he completely ignores Israel many crimes against Palestinians, and for all intents and purposes pretends they don't exists, which is just another example of his utter hypocrisy, and quite frankly show he hasn't a leg to stand on, and that he is in fact guilty of what he accuses others of. In fact what Myers is doing is out and out denial, which imho is far worse than what he wrongly accuses other of.

**EDIT**
IMHO, the only venom is from supporters of Israel, and Myers article is a perfect example of venom. False accusation of Anti-semetism and what amounts to denial of crimes against Palestinians. It seem pretty clear to that racism agianst Palestinian is perfectly acceptable for supporters of Israel.
**END EDIT**

Nodin

lividduck wrote: »

Hi Nodin,
No I do not believe Israel should be colonizing the West bank, indeed I believe the West bank should form the centre of an Independent Palestian State, along with Gaza thus guarenteeing it access to the Sea.
I believe Jeruselem to be a unique city in tems of world culure and heritage being a holy place to Jews, Muslims, and Christians and that it should be administered directly by the UN..

Good man.

lividduck wrote: »

What I find offensive is that those who repeatedly attack Israel and its actions seem to find it easy to justify and excuse the the suicide bombings and persistant rocket attacks launched against it, and the persistant calls for the destruction of the state of Israel.
I personally have no problem condeming wrongdoing, regardless of who is guilty, what I have an issue with is the condemnation by many of one side in a conflict while excusing and justifying the acts of the other side.

....as Israel is the aggressor, you're going to get a lot of that.

Nodin

The Israeli wrote: »

An article which has been published on Ynet today:
......Kevin Myers
....l

O dear o dear o dear....an opinion piece by Myers -
We're fucked now
...all our argument belong to you.....

Three questions -

Did you read that shite before you posted it?

Did you ever read any of his shite before?

Why did you think an opinion piece containing that kind of nonsense was in anyway relevant to the thread?

The Israeli

Nodin wrote: »

O dear o dear o dear....an opinion piece by Myers -
We're fucked now
...all our argument belong to you.....

Three questions -

Did you read that shite before you posted it?

Did you ever read any of his shite before?

Why did you think an opinion piece containing that kind of nonsense was in anyway relevant to the thread?

Dear wes and Nodin,

I have no previous knowledge of the article's writer and I don't care about his past writings since I'm interested only in the current one. The article isn't about him but about Ireland.

I don't know why you think that the article is a piece of garbage.
The historical facts in it are true, and they don't show Ireland in a very great light. The message of it is: We have a history and our current stand against Israel might have something to do with it, and also that we are fanatically obsessed with one country.
I may also add: The accusation that says that because Israel isn't under sanctions is a blindfold, because the history mentioned there isn't only since 67.
In a world of terrible crimes, saying that: oh well, Syria is under sanctions, China we need, to Darfur we give money and anyway can't change anything, ahh but Israel - we think it may be not the worst (I speak for you) but definitely isn't under sanctions therefor - it is winning the best of our attention.
Instead of turning your attention to the most burning causes you go to the favorite targets which are the Jews / Zionists - Israel - each on its turn was / is an acceptable target in different years.

Go on, attack the writer once more. It even might erase the facts stated in it..

In what I write I address only those who slam Israel time after time no matter what, and are incapable of a broader thinking, and the ability to represent the claims of both sides.

Sappa

Is Alan Shatter connected with this lot

wes

The Israeli wrote: »

Dear wes and Nodin,

I have no previous knowledge of the article's writer and I don't care about his past writings since I'm interested only in the current one. The article isn't about him but about Ireland.

The man is a professional **** stirrer. This is what he does, and btw it is an opinion piece, so who the author is, is very much relevant to the topic. The author is well known to write stuff to annoy people, so that fact is very relevant.

The Israeli wrote: »

I don't know why you think that the article is a piece of garbage.

I pointed out my reasons pretty clearly actually....

The Israeli wrote: »

The historical facts in it are true, and they don't show Ireland in a very great light.

The historical facts, have no bearing on the IPSC, who are not responsible for past events.

The Israeli wrote: »

The message of it is: We have a history and our current stand against Israel might have something to do with it.

Its a pretty desperate tactic, to try and smear people, who are opposing Israeli racism as being racist. Unless he can link these people directly to past events, then he is quite frankly reaching.

Also, as per Myers own logic, he should have mentioned the far worse historical Anti-semtism in main land Europe, or the historical racism against Black people and Native American's in the US etc but as per usual his ilk don't practice what they preach, and instead create artificial pre-requisites, that they themselves never abide by. Complete and utter hypocrisy.

The Israeli wrote: »

One thing that I admit in: the article isn't balanced.

Not balanced, is putting it mildly. Myers goes out of his way to essentially ignore crimes against Palestinians. The article is filled with hypocrisy and double standards from Myers. Not a single quote of the "venom" from him at all (instead plenty of "venom" aimed at those he disagrees with), instead past racism is being used to try and smear another group of people. All the while ignoring the racist treatment of Palestinians and basically ignoring any crimes against them.

The Israeli wrote: »

Go on, attack the writer once more. It even might erase the facts stated in it..

You will notice, that I also mentioned various reasons, why I disagreed with the article, which you have chosen to ignore. So your criticism in this regard is wholly invalid, due to its fictional basis.-

The Israeli

wrong posting

Sappa

Israel seem to be the most hated nation on earth,they are disliked nearly ever where I travel.
I have found them one on one to be actually ok but when you get them in a small group together they are just so arrogant and disrespectful to the local people.
I witnessed this in Africa,south east Asia and India,they just want to take over,drop there litter and expect others to wait on them hand and foot.

The Israeli

Sappa wrote: »

Israel seem to be the most hated nation on earth,they are disliked nearly ever where I travel.
I have found them one on one to be actually ok but when you get them in a small group together they are just so arrogant and disrespectful to the local people.
I witnessed this in Africa,south east Asia and India,they just want to take over,drop there litter and expect others to wait on them hand and foot.

Have you traveled to Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Switzerland, Thailand, Italy?
These are the countries I have been to (and Ireland). In all of them I have been treated well and treated the others well, and so the other Israelis whom I have traveled with.
Let's say that in New Zealand you can get free accommodation almost everywhere just for being an Israeli.
In Thailand they adore Israel (and they get the worst Israelis there. The loudest ones and etc..)

There are many sorts of Israelis. There is the kind that shouts loudly and throws litter, but there are very nice people.
You are "slightly" over reaching and your straight forward statement - "Israel is the most hated nation on earth" shows why.

Nodin

The Israeli wrote: »

Dear wes and Nodin,

I have no previous knowledge of the article's writer and I don't care about his past writings since I'm interested only in the current one. The article isn't about him but about Ireland..

Most people - the majority - look at what they eat before they eat it. Thats so they don't end up eating ****e.

The article is an opinion piece by a known contrarian, whose views on a number of issues border on the racist, and whose ignorance of the facts is occassionally breathtaking.

The Israeli wrote: »

I don't know why you think that the article is a piece of garbage.
The historical facts in it are true, and they don't show Ireland in a very great light. The message of it is: We have a history and our current stand against Israel might have something to do with it, and also that we are fanatically obsessed with one country.
..

So in reality you posted it in its entirety, with no comment whatsoever, because it made the old "You Protest Against Israel Because You Secretly Hate Jews" argument, which you hadn't the required testicular fortitude to lay out yourself.

Plus arguing about Myers cockology would be a nice distraction from IPSC, peaceful protests and the ongoing colonisation within the occupied territories.

The Israeli wrote: »

I may also add: The accusation that says that because Israel isn't under sanctions is a blindfold, because the history mentioned there isn't only since 67.
In a world of terrible crimes, saying that: oh well, Syria is under sanctions, China we need, to Darfur we give money and anyway can't change anything, ahh but Israel - we think it may be not the worst (I speak for you) but definitely isn't under sanctions therefor - it is winning the best of our attention.
Instead of turning your attention to the most burning causes you go to the favorite targets which are the Jews / Zionists - Israel - each on its turn was / is an acceptable target in different years.
..

I have no idea what thats supposed to mean. Youll have to be clearer.

The Israeli wrote: »

In what I write I address only those who slam Israel time after time no matter what, and are incapable of a broader thinking, and the ability to represent the claims of both sides.

....claims of Israel? to the territories?

Nodin

Sappa wrote: »

Is Alan Shatter connected with this lot

Given the article by the bould Colonel Myarse, I'm not sure Alan Shatter exists.

Wibbs

The Israeli wrote: »

The historical facts in it are true, and they don't show Ireland in a very great light.

OK

This is the state whose Taoiseach went to offer his condolences on the tragic death of Herr Hitler just weeks after allied troops had liberated Buchenwald, Belsen and Dachau.

Standard operational diplomatic stuff, however bloody daft. And DeValera could be an utter fcukwit. Many of his own close advisers told him it was daft. A great uncle of mine was with the Yanks who liberated the mentioned Buchenwald and he an Irishman and a patriot thought Devalera was a twat too.

This was the state that became a safe haven for Nazi war-criminals in the 1950s.

Ehh no. Try Israels greatest western ally the US of A. They sheltered Nazis like it was going out of fashion. Operation paperclip ring any bells? The British and the Soviets(who lost more of their people than anyone) did similar. It was the national sport of some south American nations. Compared to the handful, yes handful, four or five of such scumbags we let in, we were the rank amateurs of the world in this.

This was the state where the Mayor of Limerick in 1970 praised the anti-Jewish boycott in the city in 1903, and far being expelled from the Labour Party, was re-elected TD for the party.

Indeed, but he neglects to mention the very anti Israeli/pro Palestinian bias of the left at that time(and now to a lesser extent). Ireland as a whole is more centre right. One can hardly hold up some extremists as representing an entire nation as that would be silly and a case of throwing stones in glass houses.

Sappa

The Israeli wrote: »

Have you traveled to Australia, New Zealand, Hong Kong, Switzerland, Thailand, Italy?
These are the countries I have been to (and Ireland). In all of them I have been treated well and treated the others well, and so the other Israelis whom I have traveled with.
Let's say that in New Zealand you can get free accommodation almost everywhere just for being an Israeli.
In Thailand they adore Israel (and they get the worst Israelis there. The loudest ones and etc..)

There are many sorts of Israelis. There is the kind that shouts loudly and throws litter, but there are very nice people.
You are "slightly" over reaching and your straight forward statement - "Israel is the most hated nation on earth" shows why.

I have been to all of those countries and in Thailand Israeli people are not liked by the locals,I have actually seen signs in Koh Tao and Koh Phangnan no Israelis.
Whilst I would not agree with these signs,the Israeli that goes traveling around South East Asia is often out of the army and full of there own s***.
I have spent lots of time in Asia and I personally know owners of guest houses,laundry services,little restaurants who have nothing good to say about the large groups of Israelis.

The Israeli

Sappa wrote: »

I have been to all of those countries and in Thailand Israeli people are not liked by the locals,I have actually seen signs in Koh Tao and Koh Phangnan no Israelis.
Whilst I would not agree with these signs,the Israeli that goes traveling around South East Asia is often out of the army and full of there own s***.
I have spent lots of time in Asia and I personally know owners of guest houses,laundry services,little restaurants who have nothing good to say about the large groups of Israelis.

The southern islands of Thailand are just FULL of hebrew signs and locals who speak some Hebew.
You can call it business or whatever but I think that you are just jealous for not seeing signs in Irish (Just kidding)

http://forum.lametayel.co.il/forum_getfile/id-2351/private-0
http://www.hazikit.co.il/Pictures/Article20111143427.jpg
http://www.ofek-olami.co.il/files/images/525.JPG
http://lh4.ggpht.com/-6zJU62ZYH00/SenDR8Vn4NI/AAAAAAAATSo/Ebh7OlBMSoY/DSCN0404.JPG
http://blog.tapuz.co.il/orenka/images/3346613_47.JPG

and much more..

Zebra3

lividduck wrote: »

I personally have no problem condeming wrongdoing, regardless of who is guilty, what I have an issue with is the condemnation by many of one side in a conflict while excusing and justifying the acts of the other side.

It's not a conflict, it's an occupation.