Irish Palestine Solidarity Campaign

Nodin

lividduck wrote: »

Anyone who would seek to legitimise the use of suicide bombers is a disgrace to humanity and has no place in a civilized debate.

...so somebody dropping 2,000lb of bomb from 20,000 feet on 'the enemy' is on the moral high ground compared to somebody who runs up to them? I don't see it, meself.

lividduck

Nodin wrote: »

...so somebody dropping 2,000lb of bomb from 20,000 feet on 'the enemy' is on the moral high ground compared to somebody who runs up to them? I don't see it, meself.

I never said that Nodin, I'm not endorsing bombing civillians at all, I am answering posts in which Wild Bill persistantly endorses and promotes the legitimacy of suicide bombing.
Perhaps you agree with him, I know I find his views sickening,offenive, and utterly reprehensible.

Nodin

lividduck wrote: »

I never said that Nodin, I'm not endorsing bombing civillians at all, ......

I never mentioned civillians. I don't condone their targeting.

lividduck

Nodin wrote: »

I never mentioned civillians. I don't condone their targeting.

Ah at last the weasel words, you cant bring yourself to just say it is wrong to blow up a bus knowing in advance that all you are doing is killing as many civillians as possible for the sake of killing them, instead you seek to equate that to a fighter pilot bombing a rocket site.

Nodin

lividduck wrote: »

Ah at last the weasel words,.

I'll point out now that if theres one thing I tend to be, its fairly upfront about where I stand on issues. Applying a less than honest spin doctors phraseology is rather innacurate, if ironic.

lividduck wrote: »

you cant bring yourself to just say it is wrong to blow up a bus knowing in advance that all you are doing is killing as many civillians as possible for the sake of killing them, instead you seek to equate that to a fighter pilot bombing a rocket site.

Blowing up a bus full of civillians is wrong, as are similar acts.

lividduck

Nodin wrote: »

I'll point out now that if theres one thing I tend to be, its fairly upfront about where I stand on issues. Applying a less than honest spin doctors phraseology is rather innacurate, if ironic.



Blowing up a bus full of civillians is wrong, as are similar acts.

I totally agree, without reservation.

czx

Nodin wrote: »

There you are. Would you mind getting back to me on our earlier exchange....
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78594774&postcount=193
Thanks.

They clearly need a unified voice. Fatah against Hamas suprises you? Do all palastinians support Fatah? Is Hamas a legitimate represetative of the Palastinian people at all? If they can't even project a unified voice then what hope is there?

Wild Bill

lividduck wrote: »

I never said that Nodin, I'm not endorsing bombing civillians at all, I am answering posts in which Wild Bill persistantly endorses and promotes the legitimacy of suicide bombing.
Perhaps you agree with him, I know I find his views sickening,offenive, and utterly reprehensible.

I am advised by boards Moderation not to reply to personal abuse in kind, so I won't.

I'll merely repeat that attempts to make suicide bombing somehow more "evil" than other types of bomb are moral and intellectual garbage. An Israeli/Western propaganda ploy to make the guys with the little bombs seem worse than the guys who drop them from thousands of feet.

If you find a simple statements of fact "sickening, offenive, and utterly reprehensible" that's not my problem.

I will "persistently" repeat this every time I encounter someone's self-serving propaganda trying to de-legitimise their opponents weapons.

Very persistently.

czx

Wild Bill wrote: »

Anyone who would seek to find a moral difference between suicide bombing and dropping bombs from a B52 on towns full of civilians is a disgrace to the human intellect. :rolleyes:

(And the irony of folk defending Zionism calling others a "disgrace to humanity" is rich indeed!)

It's O.K. to drop bombs from a B52 on towns by your logic. The only problem is the flag on the side.

Wild Bill

Anyway, back on topic, I came across an ABC broadcast about the artists' boycott of Israel which gave full exposure to the points made by the boycott supporters.

I nearly fell off me high stool; I couldn't believe that an MSM American broadcaster was courageous enough to give such an almost balanced report.

At the end of the piece I realised that ABC is Australian.

They referred to the Dervish case and one other Irish act whose name escapes me.

Wild Bill

czx wrote: »

It's O.K. to drop bombs from a B52 on towns by your logic. The only problem is the flag on the side.

The justice of the cause is certainly an issue. Though I've rarely, if ever, judged B52s to be serving a just cause.

Maybe there is a case I've missed?

czx

Wild Bill wrote: »

The justice of the cause is certainly an issue. Though I've rarely, if ever, judged B52s to be serving a just cause.

Maybe there is a case I've missed?

Maybe if Hamas had a few?

golden lane

Wild Bill wrote: »

The justice of the cause is certainly an issue. Though I've rarely, if ever, judged B52s to be serving a just cause.

Maybe there is a case I've missed?

whatever means are used to fight a war......the object is to win........


suicise bombings, have not proved a winner.......it just seems to give the other side excuses to use any means at their disposal........

and unfortunately, the sympathy from most of the world for doing so.....

Nodin

czx wrote: »

They clearly need a unified voice. Fatah against Hamas suprises you? Do all palastinians support Fatah? Is Hamas a legitimate represetative of the Palastinian people at all? If they can't even project a unified voice then what hope is there?

...bit confused now. You stated what they should do, I pointed out that Fatah have done that - so what next, according to you?

Wild Bill

czx wrote: »

Maybe if Hamas had a few?

Possibly, yes. So long as they used careful targeting - like the Americans in Vietnam or Iraq. :cool:

"Carpet bombing" I think is the phrase. It causes a bit of "collateral damage" I believe.

Wild Bill

golden lane wrote: »

whatever means are used to fight a war......the object is to win........


suicise bombings, have not proved a winner.......it just seems to give the other side excuses to use any means at their disposal........

and unfortunately, the sympathy from most of the world for doing so.....

I'd like to point out that this war is far from over. Mere skirmishes to what lies ahead.

But if you want to question the strategic or military effectiveness of suicide bombing, that's a debate we could have. They were very effective in defeating the US ambitions in Iraq, Lebanon and are proving effective in Afghanistan.

Just don't insult our intelligence with the false "moral" angle.

lividduck

Wild Bill wrote: »

I'd like to point out that this war is far from over. Mere skirmishes to what lies ahead.

But if you want to question the strategic or military effectiveness of suicide bombing, that's a debate we could have.

Just don't insult our intelligence with the false "moral" angle.

What intelligence?
No intelligent being could argue those who support using suicide bombers to knowingly target and blow up civillians have any intelligence, or indeed any other human trait!

Wild Bill

Does nobody wish to discuss the cultural boycott any longer? That's what this thread is supposed to be about after all? :rolleyes:

Wild Bill

lividduck wrote: »

[/B]
What intelligence?
No intelligent being could argue those who support using suicide bombers to knowingly target and blow up civillians have any intelligence, or indeed any other human trait!

That's personal abuse - so I won't be replying in kind. :mad:

LincolnsBeard

Too many nutters in that part of the world for "solidarity" to exist.

czx

Nodin wrote: »

...bit confused now. You stated what they should do, I pointed out that Fatah have done that - so what next, according to you?

Fatah is not palestine first and foremost. Have they disarmed? Palestine needs a unified voice.

golden lane

Wild Bill wrote: »

I'd like to point out that this war is far from over. Mere skirmishes to what lies ahead.

But if you want to question the strategic or military effectiveness of suicide bombing, that's a debate we could have. They were very effective in defeating the US ambitions in Iraq, Lebanon and are proving effective in Afghanistan.

Just don't insult our intelligence with the false "moral" angle.

you have replied to the wrong post...............

and made a very uneducated accusation.........

please don't support the palestinian cause......you will lose it for those poor people........

czx

Wild Bill wrote: »

I'd like to point out that this war is far from over. Mere skirmishes to what lies ahead.

But if you want to question the strategic or military effectiveness of suicide bombing, that's a debate we could have. They were very effective in defeating the US ambitions in Iraq, Lebanon and are proving effective in Afghanistan.

Just don't insult our intelligence with the false "moral" angle.

Very effective at killing civilians in Iraq, even better than the B52s!

The false moral angle is IPSC in a nutshell

Wild Bill

golden lane wrote: »

you have replied to the wrong post...............

and made a very uneducated accusation.........

please don't support the palestinian cause......you will lose it for those poor people........

Ooops - and the notion that I'll lose the Palestinian struggle for them grants me powers I don't posses!

Actually I didn't reply to the wrong post - you said it above.

Wild Bill

czx wrote: »

Very effective at killing civilians in Iraq, even better than the B52s!

The false moral angle is IPSC in a nutshell

Again, I've nothing to do with IPSC.

Very effective at destroying the murderous American ambitions for Iraq; and a collateral effect of the B52s.

Wild Bill

So......any comments on the cultural boycott then?

It appears to be building some wonderful momentum. According to ABC the Israeli Regime is spending millions trying to counter it.

czx

Wild Bill wrote: »

Again, I've nothing to do with IPSC.

Very effective at destroying the murderous American ambitions for Iraq; and a collateral effect of the B52s.

via waves of indiscriminate suicide bombings against their own people

czx

Wild Bill wrote: »

So......any comments on the cultural boycott then?

It appears to be building some wonderful momentum. According to ABC the Israeli Regime is spending millions trying to counter it.

Don't care enough, frankly

humanji

czx wrote: »

Don't care enough, frankly

Then don't post again in this thread. Everyone else keep to the topic.

Nodin

czx wrote: »

Fatah is not palestine first and foremost. Have they disarmed? Palestine needs a unified voice.

But the colonisation of the area under their control continues. They've done what you suggested, and it hasn't worked.

What do you suggest they do now?