So, you're officially long term unemployed

IrishAm

yore wrote: »

Ok,I'll rephrase the question, we'll go all the way down to the minimum wage. Do you think that an Irish person should not have to work for 8.65 an hour under any circumstances?

No.

yore wrote: »

If you are saying that the hotels are paying below minimum, please report them.

Anyway, its not me saying it its......

wrote:

FOREIGNERS are only half as likely as Irish nationals to have favourable working conditions here, new figures reveal.

And those working in the hotel and restaurant sector are faring badly, with the worst rate of access to favourable working conditions in every category.

Almost twice as many non-Irish nationals did not expect to be in their current job in six months, as compared to Irish workers. The Central Statistics Office (CSO) yesterday published its national household survey on working conditions for the first quarter of 2008.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/migrant-workers-get-less-favourable-treatment-2080650.html

and....

wrote:

almost €388,000 was found to be underpaid following 161 investigations of hotels.

Inspections in 375 catering outlets found almost €316,000 in due wages had not been paid and almost €170,000 was unpaid by 168 construction firms.

The worst sector for compliance with employment legislation is catering, where just 24% of operators met all their obligations under various labour laws, followed by hotels, where almost three quarters were in breach of some legislation.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/workers-underpaid-by-2m-in-2011-188597.html

IrishAm

yore wrote: »

i am talking about people in general. My last job in Ireland before leaving was working as a labourer for a relative for 50 Euro a week.

Do you think people living in Ireland should aspire to work for a tenner a day?

I hope he housed, fed and brought you for a few pints at the end of the week to?

yore

IrishAm wrote: »

Do you think people living in Ireland should aspire to work for a tenner a day?

I hope he housed, fed and brought you for a few pints at the end of the week to?

Nope, it wasn't for long. It was in between wrapping up things in college and emigrating. A few weeks/months. I just helped out but my relative insisted on giving me the 50 a week. It wasn't for the money. I just didn't want to be sitting on me hole when I could be doing something constructive.

The money wasn't the point. But it was doing a job that most Irish people would feel themselves "above". They definitely wouldn't do it for minimum wage.
I hate the attitude of people who think they are above certain jobs and wages. Implicit in their own deluded sense of self-worth is the belief that the they are superior to the people who are doing those jobs.

IrishAm

yore wrote: »

Nope, it wasn't for long. It was in between wrapping up things in college and emigrating. A few weeks/months. I just helped out but my relative insisted on giving me the 50 a week. It wasn't for the money. I just didn't want to be sitting on me hole when I could be doing something constructive.

The money wasn't the point. But it was doing a job that most Irish people would feel themselves "above". They definitely wouldn't do it for minimum wage.
I hate the attitude of people who think they are above certain jobs and wages. Implicit in their own deluded sense of self-worth is the belief that the they are superior to the people who are doing those jobs.

Where you also receiving the dole? How did you pay for rent, light, heat, food, entertainment and visa fees on 50 quid a week?

Hundreds of thousands of Irish people have worked for minimum wage btw.

yore

IrishAm wrote: »

Where you also receiving the dole? How did you pay for rent, light, heat, food, entertainment and visa fees on 50 quid a week?

Hundreds of thousands of Irish people have worked for minimum wage btw.

I'm not going giving my life story. The money was irrelevant. I'd have done it for free. I was picking up a few other bits here and there. Why are you assuming I had no savings? Plus my parents were good enough to let me live at home.

Yes, hundreds of thousands of Irish people have worked/do work for minimum wage. And plenty think they are too good to do same. See above post about why that sickens me.

christmas2012

yore wrote: »

So you think that the reason you might find it difficult to find a job is because the evil government are somehow exploiting and forcing some poor person to work as a caretaker for the local GAA club for 20 hours a week.....

Would you take the job as the caretaker if the CE scheme was scrapped and the club could somehow manage to pay the minimum wage to fund that position?

CE scheme is not jobsbridge. But you started off giving out about CE schemes and have only just mentioned jobsbridge now

Jobsbridge is practically the same thing you DONT GET PAID,YOU GET PAID OFF WELFARE,YOURE A FREEBIE..

What perpetuates mass unemployment is these schemes,they are joblockers,they suck up what could be a paid job..

Who wants to advertise for a paid job when they can get you for free?

yore

christmas2012 wrote: »

Jobsbridge is practically the same thing you DONT GET PAID,YOU GET PAID OFF WELFARE,YOURE A FREEBIE..

What perpetuates mass unemployment is these schemes,they are joblockers,they suck up what could be a paid job..

Who wants to advertise for a paid job when they can get you for free?

A CE scheme is nothing like jobsbridge. Read about it here
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/unemployment_and_redundancy/employment_support_schemes/community_employment_scheme.html


Here's some info on jobsbridge
http://www.jobbridge.ie/FAQs.aspx

While your argument may be plausible in the case of jobsbridge (for some of the positions), it is definitely not plausible for CE scheme (which is what you started talking about)

From the jobsbridge site

There are currently 1861 internships available

4623 currently on an Internship

So there are less than 6,400 positions or potential positions. I don't think those "jobblockers" as you cause them are necessarily the sole reason why someone might find it difficult to find a job. It is a handy excuse or easy thing to blame though.

The live register is currently at 440,000. Not every one of those jobs would exist as a full time job if it were not subsidised. And it is likelly that the people doing them are not the same people who would get the job if it was full paying.

Battered Mars Bar

Internships should be reserved for graduates/proffessionals. This should have nothing to do with fas.

Jobsbridge is scum, no one needs to "intern" for free in any standard workforce. The jobs aren't important enough, don't demand any level of special skill etc.

As for "retraining in a new area" again, if this is your career model, you're not doing any job that requires anything special,...the alternative? Go back to college, then come out as a graduate and be told you need to intern and go abroad straight away and get paid work in a real economy.

There was a time when people gained employment that they were seen as an investment for a company, pay them well teach them well keep them long term imo.

This thing is slavery. Free labour undermines the value of the work itself in a race to the bottom on an already sunken ship.

Siuin

CruelCoin wrote: »

As an employer, the biggest thing i have to say is Polish your goddam CV....

FYP

christmas2012

''I don't think those "jobblockers" as you cause them are necessarily the sole reason why someone might find it difficult to find a job. It is a handy excuse or easy thing to blame though.''

the reason i call them 'joblockers' is because if they werent there as an unemployment service,companies would have no other option but to hire paid staff

yore

christmas2012 wrote: »

''I don't think those "jobblockers" as you cause them are necessarily the sole reason why someone might find it difficult to find a job. It is a handy excuse or easy thing to blame though.''

the reason i call them 'joblockers' is because if they werent there as an unemployment service,companies would have no other option but to hire paid staff

No, not necessarily. There may be companies who couldn't afford to take on a fully paid, full time member of staff but who could take on someone under this scheme and use it as a test for expansion, or even to train in a potential new recruit. It cannot, under the rules of the scheme, be used to replace an employee. Of course this is open to abuse, as is every other single employment rule imaginable. Plus the time you can kep them as an intern is limited andyou cannot replace them with another intern for at least six months: Source -> http://www.jobbridge.ie/toolkit/FAQOrgs.pdf

There are two winners. The company and the person getting the experience. The person getting the experience would likely not be the person who would get the job if it were a "full" job.

Take the example of the fitness instructor above. You can come out of college with all your certs and training done but have zero experience. You are going to find it hard to get a start anywhere. If some company can be persuaded to create a job for you, then everyone is a winner!

yore

Siuin wrote: »

FYP

Yeah 'cause Irish employers are notoriously racist...against Irish people.

Comin' over here and takin our jobs and our wimmin and acting like they fecking own the place. Good for you father. Feckin' Greeks

christmas2012

yore wrote: »

No, not necessarily. There may be companies who couldn't afford to take on a fully paid, full time member of staff but who could take on someone under this scheme and use it as a test for expansion, or even to train in a potential new recruit.

are you really that naive??honestly..what they do in these schemes (more like scams )they just hire another one after your fas ce term/jobridge internship ends,they are abusing the system,they dont pay anybody,they get subsidised by government...

mattjack

christmas2012 wrote: »

are you really that naive??honestly..what they do in these schemes (more like scams )they just hire another one after your fas ce term/jobridge internship ends,they are abusing the system,they dont pay anybody,they get subsidised by government...

Why did you do a CE scheme ?

df1985

2 years unemployed,did an unpaid internship which turned into a contract which now is 99% looking like ill be made permanent. 12 months ago i was "unemployable"....now im in a good job in a huge company that i can eventually get a transfer in and out of this kip of a country. F U recession, it can be beat.

mattjack

df1985 wrote: »

2 years unemployed,did an unpaid internship which turned into a contract which now is 99% looking like ill be made permanent. 12 months ago i was "unemployable"....now im in a good job in a huge company that i can eventually get a transfer in and out of this kip of a country. F U recession, it can be beat.

Shhhh , you're ruining a perfectly good row.

christmas2012

Well..I did a ce scheme in a recession..there are lots of people applying..But what im trying to highlight is that by signing up to a ce scheme,you are perpetuating mass unemployment,if people stood up and expected better from our government..ie pressure put on businesses to start hiring a certain percentage of ce workers it wouldnt be so bad,but they dont ,and whats worse is employers abuse their position by simply hiring more ce workers after your ce term ends..
its a free labour scam,well that's what its been turned into by local 'employers'..

mattjack

christmas2012 wrote: »

Well..I did a ce scheme in a recession..there are lots of people applying..But what im trying to highlight is that by signing up to a ce scheme,you are perpetuating mass unemployment,if people stood up and expected better from our government..ie pressure put on businesses to start hiring a certain percentage of ce workers it wouldnt be so bad,but they dont ,and whats worse is employers abuse their position by simply hiring more ce workers after your ce term ends..
its a free labour scam,well that's what its been turned into by local 'employers'..

I understand what you are trying to highlight, but there's is one fundamental I want to highlight to you... every agency that employ's CE workers are almost without fail non profit making.Most are charitys or community groups

They are not companies in the sense that they are out to make profits.

The full time staff of one of two, I worked for have taken a pay cut of between 7 and 10 % , this in itself would suggest employing people permanently is'nt viable.

A lot of the staff , pre recession, in both schemes I've been on were recruited from CE.

lamai

laid off 2010, tried to get work, hopeless!! back to college again!!! 2 years, 2nd year worked 9 months part time, was laid off there, months again searching for work go another part time job, which I am still in. The course was not getting me an interviews approached a few to work for nothing, eventually got one. working there 6 months now part time no pay, they are taking the piss but what can you do. They pay for petrol as it is nearly 2hours there. up at 5.30am get home at 7pm. Have started now to get a few interviews from the work experience and have an offer of full time work in august. Fingers crossed

christmas2012

From where ive been there are companies that are recession proof,and have hiring capacity but wont hire because of these free labour ce schemes,and internships,there joblockers..
I cant see anything good about our government paying through the nose in the millions for these schemes(when they could get businesses to hire at no cost to the government,and have workers in paid employment paying tax back to our government)that provide no long term employment,they perpetuate unemployment..i find it funny how they say they benefit disadvantaged areas,when the perpetuate poverty,and block jobs from the most vunerable of communities in ireland,and in a recession were all vunerable and they have no problem taking full advantage of that..

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/90107

http://fasjobfitjobsscamrobbingjobsfromyou.blogspot.com/

http://www.politics.ie/forum/economy/142557-great-employment-robbery-we-face-jobfit-new-agency-another-fas-jobs-scam-2.html

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/97583

http://politico.ie/social-issues/8313-pathways-to-work-or-pathways-to-poverty.html

mattjack

christmas2012 wrote: »

From where ive been there are companies that are recession proof,and have hiring capacity but wont hire because of these free labour ce schemes,and internships,there joblockers..
I cant see anything good about our government paying through the nose in the millions for these schemes(when they could get businesses to hire at no cost to the government,and have workers in paid employment paying tax back to our government)that provide no long term employment,they perpetuate unemployment..i find it funny how they say they benefit disadvantaged areas,when the perpetuate poverty,and block jobs from the most vunerable of communities in ireland,and in a recession were all vunerable and they have no problem taking full advantage of that..

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/90107

http://fasjobfitjobsscamrobbingjobsfromyou.blogspot.com/

http://www.politics.ie/forum/economy/142557-great-employment-robbery-we-face-jobfit-new-agency-another-fas-jobs-scam-2.html

http://www.indymedia.ie/article/97583

http://politico.ie/social-issues/8313-pathways-to-work-or-pathways-to-poverty.html

You need n't highlight anything, I read your posts.

Is there any CE schemes in particular that's a private profit making company, leave Jobridge/Tus etc out of it for the moment.

christmas2012

Ive seen supermacs advertise for ce positions and shoe shops also,and even these 'non profit' organisations can tot up their savings when they dont employ people but simply hire ce staff to do their work..

yore

mattjack wrote: »

You need n't highlight anything, I read your posts.

Is there any CE schemes in particular that's a private profit making company, leave Jobridge/Tus etc out of it for the moment.

I think we're either talking to someone who doesn't know what they are talking about, or else has some inside non-public information that others do not have access to. Perhaps the poster is under the impression that the government is under the obligation to create a relatively high-paying job for him/her and everyone else looking for work? They don't seem to understand that the CE scheme jobs would not be jobs if it were not for the government subsidy. I'm sure also, that there are cases where having the CE scheme leads to being able to justify other jobs too. Think for example of your local Citizen Information Bureau. It provides a hugely valuable service to the community. It's workers are probably mainly CE scheme people with maybe one full-time manager. Plus also some volunteers who get no pay at all. If the CE scheme was scrapped, then the place shuts down. Simple as that. The government still pays the CE workers the dole rate. The manager loses their job and the community suffers a big loss. The other poster seems to be under the impression that if the CE scheme was scrapped, the citizens information Bureau would suddenly start paying each of those people 30k a year :rolleyes:

yore

christmas2012 wrote: »

Well..I did a ce scheme in a recession..there are lots of people applying..But what im trying to highlight is that by signing up to a ce scheme,you are perpetuating mass unemployment,if people stood up and expected better from our government..ie pressure put on businesses to start hiring a certain percentage of ce workers it wouldnt be so bad,but they dont ,and whats worse is employers abuse their position by simply hiring more ce workers after your ce term ends..
its a free labour scam,well that's what its been turned into by local 'employers'..

There seems to be a lot of stupid companies out there so who are going broke when they could do what you suggest and effectively get free workers.
Ever thought as setting yourself up as a business consultant for these people? It's obviously an untapped area. Think of the savings you could have for a typical business if you could even cut down on 5 of their staff so easily .... charge a 20% commission on the money saved.

christmas2012

yore wrote: »

The other poster seems to be under the impression that if the CE scheme was scrapped, the citizens information Bureau would suddenly start paying each of those people 30k a year :rolleyes:

Speaking for myself,i dont think it will just magically happen,but our government havent come up with any bright ideas since the ce scheme,and i think it is about time they put pressure on those who can hire and pay workers to do so without availing of ce schemes and not paying workers when they know they should..ie supermacs shoe selling shops,etc i could go on and on,there are also 'non profit' organisations that are making huge savings..i think its unfair and it should be scrapped because of this,there is serious abuse going on here,and joblocking is a problem it creates not to mention the abuse of ce workers just hired and thrown out to be replaced by another ce worker,while they get them for nothing welfare(ie joe public) pays the lot


What gets me is our government are paying for businesses that land here in ireland evading tax,subsidising them with internships and ce schemes while getting nothing back,no obligations are put on these businesses to start hiring paid workers( a percentage of ) as a pre requirement which should happen.

mattjack

christmas2012 wrote: »

Speaking for myself,i dont think it will just magically happen,but our government havent come up with any bright ideas since the ce scheme,and i think it is about time they put pressure on those who can hire and pay workers to do so without availing of ce schemes and not paying workers when they know they should..ie supermacs shoe selling shops,etc i could go on and on,there are also 'non profit' organisations that are making huge savings..i think its unfair and it should be scrapped because of this,there is serious abuse going on here,and joblocking is a problem it creates not to mention the abuse of ce workers just hired and thrown out to be replaced by another ce worker,while they get them for nothing welfare(ie joe public) pays the lot


What gets me is our government are paying for businesses that land here in ireland evading tax,subsidising them with internships and ce schemes while getting nothing back,no obligations are put on these businesses to start hiring paid workers( a percentage of ) as a pre requirement which should happen.

What non profit organisation is making huge savings ? The two I've worked for are crippled.One of them has been donated a block of accommodation units in Dublin and can't even get the money to employ staff to run it.

yore

christmas2012 wrote: »

i think it is about time they put pressure on those who can hire and pay workers to do so without availing of ce schemes and not paying workers when they know they should..ie supermacs shoe selling shops,etc i could go on and on,there are also 'non profit' organisations that are making huge savings..

I'd reckon that proving that a business is taking advantage of the scheme is a lot easier than proving what is often a retort from the "other side" i.e that there are people on the dole taking advantage of it and with no intention to work! (I'm not championing that retort in this post, I am merely stating that what you said could also be reversed against people on the dole)

mattjack

christmas2012 wrote: »

Ive seen supermacs advertise for ce positions and shoe shops also,and even these 'non profit' organisations can tot up their savings when they dont employ people but simply hire ce staff to do their work..

I,ve seen a rubber band and a horse fly too.....

christmas2012

There are a lot of care franchises in ireland working under the pretext of NGO's..Not all are franchises but one care ''not for profit'' i can think of off the top of my head is rehab care,they can well afford to hire care staff but dont..ive seen a few jobs for that company advertised a couple of times over the last 2 weeks,(its just been taken down this week).I wouldnt say by the nature of non profit they are making the big bucks like supermacs etc..but ce schemes are not about getting ireland back working,in fact very much the opposite..Unemployment is their business,they are taking advantage of vunerable people in a recession and the poorest areas are hit hardest,these schemes tend to have the speil of well we are brining work to your area when they are doing the opposite,they are perpetuating mass unemployment in these areas too..and in this recession everybody is vunerable,they say 'give back to your community',what are these schemes giving back to us?when they couldnt be bothered to hire,but just chuck you out and recycle another fas employee..Ive even seen ce adverts for bin men and there is plenty of money sloshing around in the waste business..

I find it frustrating when people talk about how great it is to be doing free labour scheme,when our government could do more to attract jobs then simply throwing billions at these quangos,theres so many of them: fas,jobridge,solas,jobfit,its a scandal in itself,and what happened with the mary harney expenses scandal,roddy molloy and the golden handshake,the scandals seem to go on and on..People dont talk about the fundamental scandal,the fact they occupy what could be a paid job advertised..it is disgusting the abuse of the system that is allowed to happen..
anyway thats my say on it im off to fix some tea and go for a stroll

christmas2012

mattjack wrote: »

I,ve seen a rubber band and a horse fly too.....

lol i have seen these ce jobs advertised,you can google them for yourself its a disgrace nobody should put up with it,think of the unemployment lines,these ce schemes are making longer and longer..:eek: