Provincial Schools thread 2012-2013 *MOD WARNING POST 1*

Gordon Gecko

ormond lad wrote: »

I dont agree with it as in my view it shows the branch are looking to the off the field stuff and thinking that they can get bigger crowds and more money than by hosting games during the day like they do currently. Numbers of current pupils may go down which would be a loss to the games.

A draw after every round of matches is a good idea as it may help rectify the issue of lopsided draws.
Only shame that proposals have not been made to change the competition structure.
Would love it if the comp structure was changed to give teams more games and not 1 shot and you're gone. as for all the work the players put in over the year and the previous years with training 4/5 times a week and playing 14/15 friendlies to be out of the main comp after only 70 minutes is crazy. why not change things so that some of those "friendlies" can be full blooded cup games.

Well personally I think a group stage would diminish the entertainment value of the cup. Cup rugby is hugely exciting by the very fact that it is all or nothing, the winner takes it all in each round. Group matches would greatly diminish this and I also think it would adversely affect the weaker schools in the competition. There are memorable one-off upsets every year (e.g. Kilkenny knocking the 'Rock in '07) but if there was a group stage the smaller schools would need to produce 4 or 5 times the amount of miracles if they were to progress in the competition.

Also I've been thinking of the draw after every round system and it really doesn't help things: The draw for the 1st round can still easily result in the stronger schools having to play each other in the 1st round and a potential final (e.g. Michael's vs. Terenure) could be played out then. Also a weak school can still get a very easy draw by repeatedly being drawn against other weak teams. Basically nothing's changed except we'll be left guessing after each round how things are going to pan out. Personally I think seeding should be brought in to avoid the issue of lopsiding.

ormond lad

Gordon Gecko wrote: »

Well personally I think a group stage would diminish the entertainment value of the cup. Cup rugby is hugely exciting by the very fact that it is all or nothing, the winner takes it all in each round. Group matches would greatly diminish this and I also think it would adversely affect the weaker schools in the competition. There are memorable one-off upsets every year (e.g. Kilkenny knocking the 'Rock in '07) but if there was a group stage the smaller schools would need to produce 4 or 5 times the amount of miracles if they were to progress in the competition.

Also I've been thinking of the draw after every round system and it really doesn't help things: The draw for the 1st round can still easily result in the stronger schools having to play each other in the 1st round and a potential final (e.g. Michael's vs. Terenure) could be played out then. Also a weak school can still get a very easy draw by repeatedly being drawn against other weak teams. Basically nothing's changed except we'll be left guessing after each round how things are going to pan out. Personally I think seeding should be brought in to avoid the issue of lopsiding.

Straight knockout means half the kids every year are out of their main competition after 70minutes.
The kids get more games. there is still the chance for shock upsets. dispite shock results the top schools always win anyway. when was the last time 1 of the smaller schools won the cup?
The draw after every round should help as it stops predetermined draws. How do you decide on seeding considering every year the pool of players in each school changes like a school with a strong pool of players one year and a weak pool the next year are impacted by how many kids left the school.
Seeding the draw affects the weaker schools just as much as a group stage

Quint2010

ormond lad wrote: »

Straight knockout means half the kids every year are out of their main competition after 70minutes.
The kids get more games. there is still the chance for shock upsets. dispite shock results the top schools always win anyway. when was the last time 1 of the smaller schools won the cup?
The draw after every round should help as it stops predetermined draws. How do you decide on seeding considering every year the pool of players in each school changes like a school with a strong pool of players one year and a weak pool the next year are impacted by how many kids left the school.
Seeding the draw affects the weaker schools just as much as a group stage

The last time any of the schools outside the top 6 won the cup was De La Salle Churchtown in 1985. They actually won it in 1983 as well and got to the final in 1986. Seeding would ensure the big schools get further no matter what strength of team they actually had. Teams could be seeded on their record over the previous five years. However is the present system really not working? Only once in the last 13 cup campaigns has a team from outside the top six reached the final. Are they trying to ensure more of those teams getting there by changing the rules or less?

charliemant

Whos looking good for munster junior cup??heard rockwells team is one of their best juniors team for a while ..ard scoil nd glenstal too

ormond lad

charliemant wrote: »

Whos looking good for munster junior cup??heard rockwells team is one of their best juniors team for a while ..ard scoil nd glenstal too

Ard Scoil are good enough going by their limerick league results. best look at the munster schools website which gives good enough updates on competitions.
CBC are unbeaten in the u15 league so if theyve plenty of 16s theyll be good

charliemant

ormond lad wrote: »

Ard Scoil are good enough going by their limerick league results. best look at the munster schools website which gives good enough updates on competitions.
CBC are unbeaten in the u15 league so if theyve plenty of 16s theyll be good

what bout glenstal or rockwell rock didnt compete in limerick league this year

themont85

Quint2010 wrote: »

The last time any of the schools outside the top 6 won the cup was De La Salle Churchtown in 1985. They actually won it in 1983 as well and got to the final in 1986. Seeding would ensure the big schools get further no matter what strength of team they actually had. Teams could be seeded on their record over the previous five years. However is the present system really not working? Only once in the last 13 cup campaigns has a team from outside the top six reached the final. Are they trying to ensure more of those teams getting there by changing the rules or less?

Those 6 schools are already seeded seeing as they get in automatically. They have a massive advantage. I do always laugh when someone from one of those schools (not you) every year gives out about the draw. At the end of the day you have to beat the best and the 6 schools who go in automatically have a huge advantage as is.

Gordon Gecko

Quint2010 wrote: »

The last time any of the schools outside the top 6 won the cup was De La Salle Churchtown in 1985. They actually won it in 1983 as well and got to the final in 1986. Seeding would ensure the big schools get further no matter what strength of team they actually had. Teams could be seeded on their record over the previous five years. However is the present system really not working? Only once in the last 13 cup campaigns has a team from outside the top six reached the final. Are they trying to ensure more of those teams getting there by changing the rules or less?

Personally the only fault I find with the current system is the potential for the best teams in the competition to be drawn against each other in the opening rounds. The best teams should play each other in the final stages, regardless of whether they're big 6 or not. Therefore maybe it'd be an idea to take that season's friendlies into account? I know how little they can mean but it'd be a start and way better than having a situation like the '06 Junior Cup (Big 6 all on same side of draw, final turned out to be a dead rubber - 'Rock trouncing a very average Gonzaga side)

ormond lad

Gordon Gecko wrote: »

Personally the only fault I find with the current system is the potential for the best teams in the competition to be drawn against each other in the opening rounds. The best teams should play each other in the final stages, regardless of whether they're big 6 or not. Therefore maybe it'd be an idea to take that season's friendlies into account? I know how little they can mean but it'd be a start and way better than having a situation like the '06 Junior Cup (Big 6 all on same side of draw, final turned out to be a dead rubber - 'Rock trouncing a very average Gonzaga side)

Surely changing the format of the competition would be easier than taking into account friendlies?
Give everyone a 2nd chance with the addition of 1 extra round. Similar to what is done in munste(see here)

ormond lad

charliemant wrote: »

what bout glenstal or rockwell rock didnt compete in limerick league this year

best off checking rockwell website for news on games theyve played.

Yari

tomorrows games
Michaels v Belvedere 2.30pm
Clongowes v Terenure 1.30pm
Rockwell v Marys ??
Blackrock v PBC 11.30 am

who are the best sides this year in each of the provinces?
I hear terenure and michaels are strong in leinster and rockwell and crescent in munster.

ormond lad

Yari wrote: »

tomorrows games
Michaels v Belvedere 2.30pm
Clongowes v Terenure 1.30pm
Rockwell v Marys ??
Blackrock v PBC 11.30 am

who are the best sides this year in each of the provinces?
I hear terenure and michaels are strong in leinster and rockwell and crescent in munster.

Clongowes 7 Terenure 35
Any other results?

thetruth_time

ormond lad wrote: »

Clongowes 7 Terenure 35
Any other results?

I'm surprised at that result. I knew terenure are very strong this year but Can't remember the last time Clongowes were beaten by such a score!!
Any other results??

thetruth_time

ormond lad wrote: »

Clongowes 7 Terenure 35
Any other results?

Methody 24 Rockwell 19 according to twitter

Oldboy 92

ormond lad wrote: »

Clongowes 7 Terenure 35
Any other results?

Was at the game and Nure were much the better side. Close at HT but yellow card cost 3 tries, but nure were on top for most of the game. It's going to be interesting to see the draw! It's between Michaels and Nure from what I've seen so far.

charliemant

Junior and senior cup predictions ?? Leinster and munster

thetruth_time

charliemant wrote: »

Junior and senior cup predictions ?? Leinster and munster

Michaels for leinster senior cup I think, terenure second favourites. Hav'nt seen or heard much about any munster teams yet this year.

ormond lad

charliemant wrote: »

Junior and senior cup predictions ?? Leinster and munster

Munster
senior: rockwell or crescent
junior: no idea

Leinster
senior: will depend on draw when its made around xmas but nure and michaels will be there or there abouts
junior: no idea

Quint2010

As a Terenure man it pains me to say that I just think, with greater strength in depth, St. Michaels might just sneak it again.

mrpdap

ormond lad wrote: »

Munster
senior: rockwell or crescent

The draw is certainly stacked that way

thetruth_time

mrpdap wrote: »

The draw is certainly stacked that way

How are the cork schools looking?

ormond lad

thetruth_time wrote: »

How are the cork schools looking?

Havent seen much online about them. From previous years and this years interpro squads i think PBC, Munchins and Rockwell will be the 3 strongest in the MSC this year
this weekends games
Saturday Crescent Comp host Blackrock and sunday St Marys host Terenure.

thetruth_time

ormond lad wrote: »

Havent seen much online about them. From previous years and this years interpro squads i think PBC, Munchins and Rockwell will be the 3 strongest in the MSC this year
this weekends games
Saturday Crescent Comp host Blackrock and sunday St Marys host Terenure.

CBC have Jason holland involved in the coaching this year so you'd imagine they won't be too bad either. Seems to be a lot of big names coaching schools at the mo. Any other schools with quality coaches in this year?

ormond lad

thetruth_time wrote: »

CBC have Jason holland involved in the coaching this year so you'd imagine they won't be too bad either. Seems to be a lot of big names coaching schools at the mo. Any other schools with quality coaches in this year?

Good for them. I just think Rockwell, Munchins and Pres will be the top teams.
Dont know of any other big name coaches involved this year.

The O Brien Cup semi finals are being played over the next week or two. The O Brien Cup is the C schools cup and the finalists of that enter the senior cup qualifiers with B schools Bandon Grammer and Midleton College.
In the O Brien semis, St Anne’s Killaloe play High School Clonmel this Friday in Ballina/Killaloe RFC at 2pm and Abbeyfeale CS play Abbey Tipp town.

Im thinking of heading into the Crescent Blackrock game saturday. I know who to look out for in terms of the Crescent side but if 'rock field their strongest side and the one you would expect theyll field in the cup who are the players to watch out for?

Gordon Gecko

ormond lad wrote: »

Good for them. I just think Rockwell, Munchins and Pres will be the top teams.
Dont know of any other big name coaches involved this year.

The O Brien Cup semi finals are being played over the next week or two. The O Brien Cup is the C schools cup and the finalists of that enter the senior cup qualifiers with B schools Bandon Grammer and Midleton College.
In the O Brien semis, St Anne’s Killaloe play High School Clonmel this Friday in Ballina/Killaloe RFC at 2pm and Abbeyfeale CS play Abbey Tipp town.

Im thinking of heading into the Crescent Blackrock game saturday. I know who to look out for in terms of the Crescent side but if 'rock field their strongest side and the one you would expect theyll field in the cup who are the players to watch out for?

Jager and Timoney their two Leinster reps are the obvious candidates for attention if both are playing. To be honest though I'd like to see how everyone else on the team is looking. In terms of representation it's a pretty lean year for 'Rock but a few good players don't necessarily make a team cup winners. Haven't been able to see the 'Rock in action this year but the grapevine since September has made me fancy them as leaders of the chasing pack although it hasn't exactly tallied with their friendly results. Would be very interested to hear what you think of their performance OL.

ormond lad

Gordon Gecko wrote: »

Jager and Timoney their two Leinster reps are the obvious candidates for attention if both are playing. To be honest though I'd like to see how everyone else on the team is looking. In terms of representation it's a pretty lean year for 'Rock but a few good players don't necessarily make a team cup winners. Haven't been able to see the 'Rock in action this year but the grapevine since September has made me fancy them as leaders of the chasing pack although it hasn't exactly tallied with their friendly results. Would be very interested to hear what you think of their performance OL.

thanks. il try get into the game. not going to our AIL game up north at the weekend and will be in Limerick anyway do may go over to the game

Didnt see the result of the 'rock- PBC game that was played over the wekeend posted and just saw it there. 'rock won 50-15. Thats a huge win for them.

thetruth_time

ormond lad wrote: »

Good for them. I just think Rockwell, Munchins and Pres will be the top teams.
Dont know of any other big name coaches involved this year.

The O Brien Cup semi finals are being played over the next week or two. The O Brien Cup is the C schools cup and the finalists of that enter the senior cup qualifiers with B schools Bandon Grammer and Midleton College.
In the O Brien semis, St Anne’s Killaloe play High School Clonmel this Friday in Ballina/Killaloe RFC at 2pm and Abbeyfeale CS play Abbey Tipp town.

Im thinking of heading into the Crescent Blackrock game saturday. I know who to look out for in terms of the Crescent side but if 'rock field their strongest side and the one you would expect theyll field in the cup who are the players to watch out

By quality didn't really mean big names just good coaches in the province.
Pres are always in the mix. Munchins will have to be a bit more creative with there game plan of last year. And Rockwell. . you'd wonder are they ever going to stop making finals!! But there run has to end sometime.

ormond lad

thetruth_time wrote: »

Pres are always in the mix. Munchins will have to be a bit more creative with there game plan of last year. And Rockwell. . you'd wonder are they ever going to stop making finals!! But there run has to end sometime.

Munchins prob will be more creative and have to be considering the ryan triplets who have been their fulcrum the past few years are not underage for the cup this year. they have 3 19s interpros and 1 or 2 18s schools interpros in their backline and dont have those kinds of numbers in the pack so i imagine they will be a bit more creative.
Rockwell are strong again and have rory paratta, munster youth in sept 2011 and a member of the interpro winning connacht 19s, who is eligible to play this year after moving to the school too late in the year last year to play senior cup

thetruth_time

ormond lad wrote: »

Munchins prob will be more creative and have to be considering the ryan triplets who have been their fulcrum the past few years are not underage for the cup this year. they have 3 19s interpros and 1 or 2 18s schools interpros in their backline and dont have those kinds of numbers in the pack so i imagine they will be a bit more creative.
Rockwell are strong again and have rory paratta, munster youth in sept 2011 and a member of the interpro winning connacht 19s, who is eligible to play this year after moving to the school too late in the year last year to play senior cup

With a sir name like parratta I'm guessing he's not Irish? And I'm a little confused, munster youths to Connacht 19s but in school in munster!! How does that work?

Hagz

ormond lad wrote: »

Im thinking of heading into the Crescent Blackrock game saturday. I know who to look out for in terms of the Crescent side but if 'rock field their strongest side and the one you would expect theyll field in the cup who are the players to watch out for?

As said, Timoney and Jager are the stand out names, but keep an eye on winger Dillon Coghlan if he plays (if you go). He's a 5th year winger.