Dublin Marathon 2012 - Mentored Novices Thread

LarMan

Hi,

I am been thinking of doing the Marathon this year, originally I had planned on doing the Dublin half this year and then maybe a marathon next year. What puts me off is the thought of being out there for 4 hours (or more) it sounds very daunting.

Anyway I have decided to do it so will look forward to this thread for support.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)
I have done two races so far, both this year. The Wicklow half in 2:03:06 and the Samsung night run in 49:58

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? No problem if you do!
No
How much training do you currently do? Distances, how many days a week,
I am currently training for another 10K on June 17th so I am following Hal Higdons Intermediate plan for that. The distances will be 18.5 miles at the start and will peak at 26 miles in week 7 of the 8 week program. I am currently training 5 days a week. The distances are typically (miles) 3,5,Intervals/Tempo,3 and a LSR that will peak at 8 miles.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time?

Dream time would be 3 hours 50 minutes (I am basing this on McMillan calculator and presuming that I will be able to get to 49 minutes in my next 10K). Realistically I would be happy with under 4 hours.

How many days a week can you train?
I can train 5 times a week

Why are you running this marathon?
I started Running in September '11 to primarily help lose weight. I was 112KG in May 2011 and now I am 83KG and hope to get down to 76KG by the time of the Dublin half Marathon. I have never been fit and I would feel completing a marathon in a decent time for me (under 4 hours) would be a great accomplishment. October 29th is also my birthday and I can't think of a better way to celebrate turning 43 than running your first marathon.

BobMac104

Fair play LarMan!

martyoo

Thanks very much BobMac104. There is so much information out there about it that its hard to know what to believe so its good to read a fellow runners story on the issue.

Hey Martyoo here is a good article on it which may help but yea go to your physio to get professional advice too.

http://corkrunning.blogspot.com/search?q=plantar

wilfitz

Hi all,
I'm thinking of doin my first marathon this year. I have been doing a small bit of running over the last three years. Usually id get the buzz for a couple of months and then get lazy for a while and then start back again. I was thinking about maybe following the Hal Higdon novice 2 plan. I see there is an app for the iPhone. Can anyone tell me would this be worth getting? I think it's €7.99.

I have completed two races:
Wicklow half marathon May 2010: 1hr44 mins
Enniscorthy 10 mile April 2012: 1hr15 mins

I never take a break to walk while training

Not doing much at the moment but when I am usually try and get out 3-4 times a week and usually do anything from 3-6 miles. Increased my mileage prior to the races I completed in the months before generally doing a longer run at the weekend. going to hit the road again this evening:).

I'd be looking to do it in under 4 hours.

Im not limited to days I can train. I should be able to follow the training Plan.

I've always wanted to run a marathon.

Looking forward to following this thread and hopefully it will help me knock the marathon off the list of things I want to do in my life. Next thing to do I suppose is to sign up because usually when I put my mind to something I'll do it. Best of luck to everyone.

DogSlySmile

wilfitz wrote: »

Enniscorthy 10 mile April 2012: 1hr15 mins

Hi, thats a really good time for 10 miles. You'll be well able to go sub 4 if you put the training in. In fact the McMillan calculator indicates you could do it as fast as 3:21:40 !

Good luck with the training

Younganne

got injured near the end of the program. Mostly cause I hadn't followed the training properly and tried to ramp up the distance too fast at the end

Lads, i can't stress this enough and it will come up time and time again.

There is only one sure method to get through the program and that is to build it slowly....

I know when you get going it's hard not to do a little bit more than planned but you really have to take it slowly and following a program is the best way to do this and avoid injury....

shazkea

Younganne wrote: »

Lads, i can't stress this enough and it will come up time and time again.

There is only one sure method to get through the program and that is to build it slowly....

I know when you get going it's hard not to do a little bit more than planned but you really have to take it slowly and following a program is the best way to do this and avoid injury....

+1000 on this advice. The other thing I would highlight again on building slowly is not to increase your weekly mileage by more than 10%.
I didn't follow this advice when training for a spring marathon last year. Due to the awful winter and work schedule, I tried to make up for missing some runs. Result was some of my weekly mileage was too much to handle as it was more than 10% on previous weeks. I picked up a stress fracture 5 weeks before marathon and had to sit it out. Horrible feeling. Hence my simple goal is to make it to the start line injury free.

This year I hope to stick my own advice and build up slowly . I'm hoping you can help me keep this in check!!

shazkea

Right as my plan A marathon is a few weeks before Dublin, I need to start my marathon plan next week.

I would appreciate your advice on how this plan sounds. I was going to follow Hals Novice 2 Plan. It's an 18 week plan but I was going to repeat weeks 14 and 15 (12 LSR and 20 LSR) to make it a 20 week plan and have an extra 20 mile LSR. Does this sound like a good approach. Starting on week 1 next will be no problem mileage wise.

cheers...

Mr Slow

DogSlySmile wrote: »

Hi, thats a really good time for 10 miles. You'll be well able to go sub 4 if you put the training in. In fact the McMillan calculator indicates you could do it as fast as 3:21:40 !

Good luck with the training

Just keep in mind that McMillan is accurate up to the half marathon after that you need a few marathon rotations and a consistent 60 miles+ per week. Twice your half time plus 10% is a good rule of thumb.

Younganne

shazkea wrote: »

Right as my plan A marathon is a few weeks before Dublin, I need to start my marathon plan next week.

I would appreciate your advice on how this plan sounds. I was going to follow Hals Novice 2 Plan. It's an 18 week plan but I was going to repeat weeks 14 and 15 (12 LSR and 20 LSR) to make it a 20 week plan and have an extra 20 mile LSR. Does this sound like a good approach. Starting on week 1 next will be no problem mileage wise.

cheers...

Shaz that sounds like a good apporach.. Just make sure that by repeating two weeks that you are not forgetting about the Stepback week... Start the plan and see how it goes,,,when you get neared the time you might decide to repeat the 18m/19m instead of 20m but wait until that time...start the plan now and you have the two extra weeks to play with....
what marathon are you doing, Munich??

Edit: i see that week 14 is the stepback week so you have that covered.

elPadrino

Hey all,

I finally signed up for this years DCM after much soul-searching. I've been thinking about it for a few months but reading this thread finally pushed me over the edge and I'm now officially in. It looks like its going to be a great source of advice and motivation.

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

5k - St Patricks weekend Dublin 2012 - 20:10
10k - Great Ireland run last month - 44:50
Half-marathon - Great Limerick Run 2011 - 1:49:45

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training? No problem if you do!

No

How much training do you currently do? Distances, how many days a week,

I've been training for the Great Limerick Run half-Marathon coming up this weekend. Training has been a bit sporadic, but I'd say its been 3-5 days per week, including a few short runs and a long run each weekend (have covered 21k a few times now).


What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time?

Dream : 3:30
Realistic : Sub 4 hours

How many days a week can you train?

Should be able to manage 5 or 6.

Why are you running this marathon?

I've wanted to since I started running a few years back but didn't really have the nerve. I have been studying part-time for a number of years now and just finished my final exams, and I feel like I need a new challenge. Best of luck to everybody taking this on.

I would appreciate any advice on how to approach my training for this marathon considering I'm already at a level where I can run more than 20k. i.e. what should I be doing for the weeks between the half on Sunday and the start date for marathon training in June. I haven't ever really concentrated on stregth/core work. Is this something I should start looking at now?

Mr Slow

Hi Elpadrino, you'll do very well out of marathon training, your 5k time is quite fast but your 10k time doesn't tally with it which means you're lacking endurance, a marathon plan will give you endurance in spades, watch those shorter distance times fall dramatically as you progress along.

tang1

elPadrino wrote: »

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs? (Date and distance please!)

5k - St Patricks weekend Dublin 2012 - 20:10
10k - Great Ireland run last month - 44:50
Half-marathon - Great Limerick Run 2011 - 1:49:45


What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time?

Dream : 3:30
Realistic : Sub 4 hours

You have similiar times and goals to myself elPadrino. You'll PB in Limerick on Sunday no bother looking at your 5 and 10k times from this year. Best of luck with Sunday and with the months of training ahead.

Mr Slow

tang1 wrote: »

You have similiar times and goals to myself elPadrino. You'll PB in Limerick on Sunday no bother looking at your 5 and 10k times from this year. Best of luck with Sunday and with the months of training ahead.

Elpadrino, most of the pacers are from Boards, make yourself known if running in a pace group.

SligoL

Hi folks,

Just stumbled upon this thread and am hoping to keep tabs on it between now and October. I've run a plan on the asics website that I think looks achievable and realistic so I hope it's ok to stick with that but still check into this site. My plan starts on May 14th so I'm looking forward to getting going.......

My details are as follows:

Have you raced before? If so what are your PBs?
10km - 49.01 (2011 - this year my fastest is 51.41 in Samsung run)
Half Marathon - 1.59 (2010 - have only done 1)

Do you still need to take walk breaks in your training?
No

How much training do you currently do?
At the moment I'm not very focused and it tends to depend on weather etc. I also do the odd spinning class/cycle and bikram yoga so I've purposefully not done tooooo much running lately so I don't get sick of it early in the year.

What do you want to achieve? Dream finishing time and realistic finishing time?
I'd like to say that I'm not too fussed about finishing time but that might not be true as my training progresses. Ideally I'd like to finish sub 4h but I think 4h20 might be more realistic.

How many days a week can you train?
4 days - 3 midweek and 1 weekend with my long slow run each weekend.

Why are you running this marathon?
I've watched the marathon the last few years and always feel quite jealous of what people are achieving. This year I want to partake!

Mrs Noc

Hi folks. Like some on here, I decided to do the marathon in December but it's only now I'm keeping an eye on this thread and doing more training, it's becoming real.

Anyone doing this, who is working full-time and has a young family?

I think I'll have to do my runs when my 2 little ones are sleeping. I'll definately need the support of my husband to do this. Looks like there's great support here too!

Mr Slow

Mrs Noc wrote: »

Hi folks. Like some on here, I decided to do the marathon in December but it's only now I'm keeping an eye on this thread and doing more training, it's becoming real.

Anyone doing this, who is working full-time and has a young family?

I think I'll have to do my runs when my 2 little ones are sleeping. I'll definately need the support of my husband to do this. Looks like there's great support here too!

I'll be doing my fourth marathon on Sunday, I'm self employed working flat out, I've two small kids and a wife studying constantly outside office hours, lots of my runs begin after 8/9 pm, if you want it bad enough, you'll make time.;)

davemcmahon

Mrs Noc wrote: »

Hi folks. Like some on here, I decided to do the marathon in December but it's only now I'm keeping an eye on this thread and doing more training, it's becoming real.

Anyone doing this, who is working full-time and has a young family?

I think I'll have to do my runs when my 2 little ones are sleeping. I'll definately need the support of my husband to do this. Looks like there's great support here too!

I'm in a similar situation I've two kids under 16 months the younger only 2 weeks old and my wife working weekends. Most of the running I've done so far has been first thing in the morning before anyone wakes or to or from work.

shazkea

Hal mentions doing some midweek runs at race pace which he specifies as Marathon Pace (novice 2 plan). That seems a bit slow to me so is it any harm in mixing these mid weeks runs up with some tempo runs at 10km & 5km pace or throwing some intervals & hills in here?

Mr Slow

shazkea wrote: »

Hal mentions doing some midweek runs at race pace which he specifies as Marathon Pace (novice 2 plan). That seems a bit slow to me so is it any harm in mixing these mid weeks runs up with some tempo runs at 10km & 5km pace or throwing some intervals & hills in here?

It shouldn't feel slow, what's your time goal?

shazkea

Mr Slow wrote: »

It shouldn't feel slow, what's your time goal?

Based on my half time, I'd say about 4:20 is realistic which gives a pace of 09:54. Right now that pace feels easy and not like race pace (maybe after 26.2 miles I'd feel different!!). Longest midweek run is 8 miles which would be easy at 09:54 pace. So thats why I was looking to mix it up a bit. What you think?

Mr Slow

shazkea wrote: »

Based on my half time, I'd say about 4:20 is realistic which gives a pace of 09:54. Right now that pace feels easy and not like race pace (maybe after 26.2 miles I'd feel different!!). Longest midweek run is 8 miles which would be easy at 09:54 pace. So thats why I was looking to mix it up a bit. What you think?

Hang on a second, you just broke 2 hours for the half so 9:10 min miles are the slow end of your tempo pace, I would start running your MP's at 9:30 and based on your current fitness you'd be looking at around 4:10/20 to finish but you'll obviously get fitter as you go along. Tempo runs (steady state)for you would be between 9 and 9:20 min miles.

menoscemo

shazkea wrote: »

Based on my half time, I'd say about 4:20 is realistic which gives a pace of 09:54. Right now that pace feels easy and not like race pace (maybe after 26.2 miles I'd feel different!!). Longest midweek run is 8 miles which would be easy at 09:54 pace. So thats why I was looking to mix it up a bit. What you think?

Personally I would never find 8 miles at marathon pace nowadays to be in any way 'easy'. If you find that type of run esy right now, it would suggest that your marathon goal is quite soft... When training for my first marathon I ran all my midweek runs at faster than goal pace (9 min/mile for a 4hr finish) and most of my long runs at goal pace. On the day itself I bonked at 18-20 miles and had to hobble home finishing 15 minutes outside my goal. This is why:

Marathon is distinct to training for other races (up to HM) as it is more about teaching your body to be fuel efficient rather than teaching it how to go faster. For anything up to 18-20 miles (assuming your muscles are fully loaded with glycogen or 'carbo laoded') you can survive on stored glycogen and basically run as fast to that point as your legs will take you while burning 100% glycogen. For a marathon however, in order to last the full 26.2 miles without the pace dropping off it is important to teach your body to burn fuel efficiently by mixing Glycogen and fat as the fuel supply. In order to do this you have to run very slowly for most of your runs. If 9:54 is a realistic goal pace for you then you should be doing the majority of your runs at about 11 min/mile. This will teach your body to burn fat as a primary fuel instead of Glycogen so that when you go at 9:50/mile your body will be able to use a mixture of fat/glycogen allowing you to run the full 26.2 miles without fading.

If you run your midweek runs fast or do intervals, you are only teaching your body to burn glycogen at a much higher rate which is contradictory to the objective you are trying to achieve. Therefore run all your Runs slower than goal pace and run the pace run midweek at goal pace and your body will learn to survive at goal pace for 26.2 miles on the day.

Other benefits of running most of your runs slower include decreasing the risk of injury and also allowing your body to recover from runs quicker and thus being able to do all the runs without getting sick/rundown.

menoscemo

Mr Slow wrote: »

Hang on a second, you just broke 2 hours for the half so 9:10 min miles are the slow end of your tempo pace, I would start running your MP's at 9:30 and based on your current fitness you'd be looking at around 4:10/20 to finish but you'll obviously get fitter as you go along. Tempo runs (steady state)for you would be between 9 and 9:20 min miles.

I think there are no tempo or steady state runs on the HH novice plan. All runs are 'easy' with some runs at MP (in the novice II plan).

Mr Slow

menoscemo wrote: »

Personally I would never find 8 miles at marathon pace nowadays to be in any way 'easy'. If you find that type of run easy right now, it would suggest that your marathon goal is quite soft...

This!;)

Mr Slow

menoscemo wrote: »

I think there are no tempo or steady state runs on the HH novice plan. All runs are 'easy' with some runs at MP (in the novice II plan).

She had asked about adding Tempo runs

shazkea

Thanks for the feedback guys, plenty to think about and as you both suggest maybe my goal time is too soft! Meno I have to admit the thought of doing my easy/lsr's at 11 min miles fills me with dread...I'll be out there for hours :rolleyes:

Yeah my question was whether to add tempos etc to Hal's novice 2 plan but I do understand your responses and as you say I need to treat Marathon training slightly different to HM's.

This is why I signed up to this thread

menoscemo

Mr Slow wrote: »

She had asked about adding Tempo runs

Yeah, I understand that but I just think that when you are following a particular plan it is best to stick to that plan and not introduce elements/theories/paces from different plans.

menoscemo

shazkea wrote: »

Thanks for the feedback guys, plenty to think about and as you both suggest maybe my goal time is too soft! Meno I have to admit the thought of doing my easy/lsr's at 11 min miles fills me with dread...I'll be out there for hours :rolleyes:

Yeah my question was whether to add tempos etc to Hal's novice 2 plan but I do understand your responses and as you say I need to treat Marathon training slightly different to HM's.

This is why I signed up to this thread

You're mad, I love running slow, it is very theraputic and relaxing.

When I was training for my first marathon (3 years ago I was a memeber of this thread) I was doing my easy runs at pretty much the same speed as I do them nowadays. Back then I was aiming for 4hrs and ran 4:15. In my last Marathon I ran 3:10. So am I doing them too slow nowadays? NO, I was just running them way too fast back then.

Nules10

Ahh jaysus Meno you are making an awful lot of sense :D