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Margaret Thatcher was she really that bad?

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    #332
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Biggins wrote: »
    :pac:

    I take it your trying to be funny?

    To repeat part of a previous post I made:



    Gave them faith? I lived in England at the time and travelling around the country with work only found that she only have them bills - despair and further reason continuously for more hatred of her!

    She changed the entire system. It went from wage caps being used as an attempt to control inflation, to interest rates.

    Current practice (and the low inflation rate) would suggest it was the right move.


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    #333
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    She changed the entire system. It went from wage caps being used as an attempt to control inflation, to interest rates.

    Current practice (and the low inflation rate) would suggest it was the right move.

    Current practice might be good - but that don't excuse the way SHE did things then and the utter devastation she left behind in her wrath upon various classes she appeared to dislike intently.


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    #334
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    With you in a mo, I just have to tick the "Probably Taking The Piss" box.
    Pedant wrote: »
    The closure of the mines was absolutely justified. Why should the government rap up debt by keeping those totally economically nonviable pits. Keeping them open would have only worsened the national debt in the long term. The "social ramifications" are something that should have been considered when investing in these industries in the first place. They had to be closed at some point or another.

    Yes, you are correct, and I utterly in error. Those in the late 1700's - mid 1800's who expanded mining should have used their time portal to far better effect. Thatcher was in no way responsible for their efforts in her part of the time/space continuum. Once again, Sir, you have me at an advantage.


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    #335
    Ouchette
    Registered Users Posts: 243 ✭✭Ouchette


    Stone cold, heartless bitch. But at least she never pretended to be anything else - unlike the current lot who like to act as if they're your mate with their 'Call me Dave' and 'All in this together' soundbites, before screwing you over.

    She did do some stuff that needed doing though, even if she didn't go about it very well.


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    #336
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    Nodin wrote: »
    And now we've a southern unionist and a comedian in the mix. Deadly.

    wrong in the first.......right in the second.......

    it was hilarious to spend all the money that was made.........and look at the gobshoite arthur scargill trying to run the country........


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    #337
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    golden lane wrote: »
    wrong in the first.....

    As I wasn't referring to you, I was in fact right.
    golden lane wrote: »
    ....right in the second...............


    I know.
    golden lane wrote: »
    it was hilarious to spend all the money that was made......

    Don't break any stereotypes, whatever you do.

    golden lane wrote: »
    and look at the gobshoite arthur scargill trying to run the country........

    Yes, the Scargill regime was one of the least noteworthy administrations of modern times. You'd be suprised at how many people don't even know he ran the country at all.


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    #338
    Pedant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 919 ✭✭✭Pedant


    Nodin wrote: »
    With you in a mo, I just have to tick the "Probably Taking The Piss" box.



    Yes, you are correct, and I utterly in error. Those in the late 1700's - mid 1800's who expanded mining should have used their time portal to far better effect. Thatcher was in no way responsible for their efforts in her part of the time/space continuum. Once again, Sir, you have me at an advantage.

    So what would you have proposed? Keeping the mines open forever even though alternative fuels were becoming more popular (nuclear, oil, gas, etc..)? Did they think the amount of coal in the ground could have lasted forever? The government under Labour kept investing in these industries at the behest of their Union paymasters even though it was apparent that coal was becoming steadily obsolete as a fuel source. Every industry carries with it a degree of intrinsic obsolescence.


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    #339
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Pedant wrote: »
    So what would you have proposed? ........


    Did you bother reading the thread? I'd say not.


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    #340
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    Nodin wrote: »
    As I wasn't referring to you, I was in fact right.



    I know.



    Don't break any stereotypes, whatever you do.




    Yes, the Scargill regime was one of the least noteworthy administrations of modern times. You'd be suprised at how many people don't even know he ran the country at all.


    he ran the mining industry into the ground....excuse the pun.......

    just like an oxo....but a laughing stock...


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    #341
    Pedant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 919 ✭✭✭Pedant


    Nodin wrote: »
    Did you bother reading the thread? I'd say not.

    So far all I've read from you is nonsense derived from your lack of understand of economics, let alone your understanding of the laws of physics - nothing lasts forever.


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    #342
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    golden lane wrote: »
    he ran the mining industry into the ground...

    O, so he didn't run the country then? Excellent.

    As has been pointed out, the mining industry worldwide was in decline, so its position in fact it had nothing to do with Scargill. One could argue with the way he ran the strike, but the fact is that the industry was controlled by the Government.


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    #343
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Pedant wrote: »
    So far all I've read from you is nonsense derived from your lack of understand of economics, let alone your understanding of the laws of physics - nothing lasts forever.

    You didn't read the thread then. Well, suffice to say I've already outlined what I thought should have happened. I'll throw in a spoiler and say that it doesn't involved going back through time to the 1700's and interrupting my betters by exclaiming 'There'll be trouble at 'pit'.


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    #344
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    Nodin wrote: »
    O, so he didn't run the country then? Excellent.

    As has been pointed out, the mining industry worldwide was in decline, so its position in fact it had nothing to do with Scargill. One could argue with the way he ran the strike, but the fact is that the industry was controlled by the Government.

    and right it should be......but the poor miners followed the pied piper,(scargill)


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    #345
    Pedant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 919 ✭✭✭Pedant


    Nodin wrote: »
    You didn't read the thread then. Well, suffice to say I've already outlined what I thought should have happened. I'll throw in a spoiler and say that it doesn't involved going back through time to the 1700's and interrupting my betters by exclaiming 'There'll be trouble at 'pit'.

    Maybe a link to your grand alternate solution to the coal mine strikes in this thread? I don't have the time to read back on this entire thread.


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    #346
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    golden lane wrote: »
    and right it should be......but the poor miners followed the pied piper,(scargill)

    Who do you suggest they should have followed instead? Was there anyone else in their union at the time that had the unity Scargil had?

    What were they supposed to do? Follow Thatcher blindly like the sheep we have today that still follow FF and co, into utter devastation again and again?

    Those struggling under the cow and her over-reactions (in order to pursue her own particular agenda), at a time of crises, reached out for any helping and supporting hand where it was available.
    There sure wasn't a helping hand coming from Thatcher!


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    #347
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    golden lane wrote: »
    and right it should be......but the poor miners followed the pied piper,(scargill)

    Yes, they should have waited on the loving bosom of Thatcher.


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    #348
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    Biggins wrote: »
    Who do you suggest they should have followed instead? Was there anyone else in their union at the time that had the unity Scargil had?

    What were they supposed to do? Follow Thatcher blindly like the sheep we have today that still follow FF and co, into utter devastation again and again?

    Those struggling under the cow and her over-reactions (in order to pursue her own particular agenda), at a time of crises, reached out for any helping and supporting hand where it was available.
    There sure wasn't a helping hand coming from Thatcher!

    why would anybody want to help the miners........their job was no more important than any other job.........they did what they did...for themselves.....

    they were rewarded with big payouts in most cases......


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    #349
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Pedant wrote: »
    Maybe a link to your grand alternate solution to the coal mine strikes in this thread? I don't have the time to read back on this entire thread.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78220821&postcount=194


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    #350
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    golden lane wrote: »
    why would anybody want to help the miners........their job was no more important than any other job.........they did what they did...for themselves.....

    they were rewarded with big payouts in most cases......

    Do you work with the poor? You seem to have great empathy with the less fortunate.

    This organisation was set up - doubtless with some of those "big payouts" - to help those living in the party hotspots where the pits used be.

    http://www.coalfields-regen.org.uk/


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    #351
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    golden lane wrote: »
    why would anybody want to help the miners........their job was no more important than any other job.........they did what they did...for themselves.....

    they were rewarded with big payouts in most cases......

    Their job was no LESS important either!
    Their jobs and the devastation of their loss, that was caused in one Thatcher swoop like a wrecking ball through entire communities and related connect primary, secondary and tertiary industries, made those jobs just as important as other in the country! No more - but certainly NO LESS!

    ...But the conveniently blind are willing to overlook such connecting effects - or just don't want to voice them in case it might upset their rosy vision they have of a truly rotten woman.


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    #352
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    Nodin wrote: »
    Do you work with the poor? You seem to have great empathy with the less fortunate.

    This organisation was set up - doubtless with some of those "big payouts" - to help those living in the party hotspots where the pits used be.

    http://www.coalfields-regen.org.uk/[/QUOTE]

    very nice of people to help others.....yes i do a lot of voluntary with old people.......

    not sure if i would be so excited to help strikers.........and certainly would have no sympathy for people who think they should have more power than the elected government....whatever it's colour.


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    #353
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    golden lane wrote: »

    not sure if i would be so excited to help strikers.........and certainly would have no sympathy for people who think they should have more power than the elected government....whatever it's colour.


    I'd no idea that everyone affected by pit closures was a striker. Whats more, I'm fairly sure that it was the closure of the pits by the government that led to the need for such a charity.

    You don't approve of protesting against the government?


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    #354
    Pedant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 919 ✭✭✭Pedant


    Nodin wrote: »
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=78220821&postcount=194

    Unfortunately, the Unions would not have agreed.


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    #355
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    Pedant wrote: »
    Unfortunately, the Unions would not have agreed.

    For one thing, thats wild speculation because it wasn't offered to them. Secondly, as the Government forced through the far harsher pit closures, logically, it would hardly have been unable to force through the lesser evil.


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    #356
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    Biggins wrote: »
    Their job was no LESS important either!
    Their jobs and the devastation of their loss, that was caused in one Thatcher swoop like a wrecking ball through entire communities and related connect primary, secondary and tertiary industries, made those jobs just as important as other in the country! No more - but certainly NO LESS!

    ...But the conveniently blind are willing to overlook such connecting effects - or just don't want to voice them in case it might upset their rosy vision they have of a truly rotten woman.

    a truly rotten woman......i have that opinion of all politicians.......

    but she did make a lot of people rich........would not agree that she made as many poor.....


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    #357
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    golden lane wrote: »
    ...she did make a lot of people rich........would not agree that she made as many poor.....

    1. She made many of the upper class rich(er).
    2. I cannot believe you actually stated the latter! Surely you are not that blind to the utter damage she brought to communities, families and businesses!


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    #358
    golden lane
    Registered Users Posts: 1,364 ✭✭✭golden lane


    Nodin wrote: »
    I'd no idea that everyone affected by pit closures was a striker. Whats more, I'm fairly sure that it was the closure of the pits by the government that led to the need for such a charity.

    You don't approve of protesting against the government?

    in what form would thode protests take..????

    i would not be a one man band and try to run the country........

    i would not say.....you will get no coal unless i say so.....


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    #359
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    golden lane wrote: »
    ...not sure if i would be so excited to help strikers.........and certainly would have no sympathy for people who think they should have more power than the elected government....whatever it's colour.
    golden lane wrote: »
    in what form would thode protests take..????

    i would not be a one man band and try to run the country........

    i would not say.....you will get no coal unless i say so.....

    Strikers of the day were ordinary workers fighting to save their jobs, fighting to be able to continue to feed their families and have a life of even average decency.
    They were not criminals en-mass, not child snatchers, not individual bank-robbers.
    They were ordinary decent folk standing in protest for what they thought was right.

    Many of them - if not all - didn't want more power than the government, they just wanted the government that was put there to also represent them too, to be fairer in the methods that was being used and request readjustment to the wrecking ball that Thatcher was swinging in too fast and harsh a measure.

    What should they have done if not protest, lie down on the roads with their wives and kids and just die?

    What would YOU have done that would have been better and possibly so perfect?


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    #360
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    golden lane wrote: »
    in what form would thode protests take..????.....

    marches, strikes etc.
    golden lane wrote: »
    i would not be a one man band and try to run the country.............

    Your notions on your suitability for the job of 'Great Leader' are your own. I offer no comment.
    golden lane wrote: »
    i would not say.....you will get no coal unless i say so.....

    So you don't believe in the right to withold your own labour then?


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    #361
    Pedant
    Closed Accounts Posts: 919 ✭✭✭Pedant


    Now for another 80s moment:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AuB3uY5K7Kg


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