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Margaret Thatcher was she really that bad?

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    #242
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    K-9 wrote: »
    Typical of the kind of comments from her supporters.

    Why?

    It is as if people want to portray themselves as victims so they can justify their bile.


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    #243
    battle_hardend
    Closed Accounts Posts: 208 ✭✭battle_hardend


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Why?

    It is as if people want to portray themselves as victims so they can justify their bile.

    you could say that about anyone from hitler to bertie


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    #244
    ArtSmart
    Registered Users Posts: 5,614 ✭✭✭ArtSmart


    no real point getting into the Thatcher thing. Those with eyes see, those who see too clearly, shut their eyes tight and imagine a different reality.


    But, it is, worth mentioning, again, that Cameron praised her twice in his first major post election speech. He didn't have to - there was no logical reason to, no tradition or logical timeline, it wasn't politeness, but he did. This is the current leader of the UK govt.

    Yes, the current leader. 2012.


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    #245
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Why?

    It is as if people want to portray themselves as victims so they can justify their bile.

    When it's aimed at soooo many I think it loses meaning. Liverpool, miners, the North, Brixton etc.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #246
    bwatson
    Registered Users Posts: 630 ✭✭✭bwatson


    Noreen1 wrote: »
    Interesting. She had Irish ancestry, yet loathed the Irish.
    She came from a working class background, yet she loathed working class people.

    Sounds like she didn't like herself, or her identity, any better than most of the rest of us liked her.

    Nasty woman!

    In what way did she "loathe" the people of Ireland?

    Granted, she didn't fawn over Ireland in the manner that David Cameron does but I've never seen any evidence that she particularly hated the people of Ireland.

    If your evidence is to be her government's stance on Northern Ireland then I would very much disagree that it was evidence of a hatred of the general population of Ireland. She got things wrong and did things which ultimately weren't in the British national interest but her actions towards the Republic weren't exactly hostile.


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    #247
    Acacia
    Registered Users Posts: 2,816 ✭✭✭Acacia


    An awful auld b1tch of a woman, all the reasons have been said throughout the thread already so I won't repeat it. Suffice to say, yup, she really was that bad. I do hate the way some people venerate her as some sort of icon for women in politics as if that somehow discounts the fact she was a thoroughly nasty piece of work.:rolleyes:


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    #248
    BluesBerry
    Registered Users Posts: 2,221 ✭✭✭BluesBerry


    Here is Maggie Thatcher Throw her up and catch her squish squash squish squash and here is Maggie Thatcher

    Was a schoolyard game in which a face was drawn on one hand and on the other just scribbles , even kids hated her and didn't understand why


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    #249
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    K-9 wrote: »
    When it's aimed at soooo many I think it loses meaning. Liverpool, miners, the North, Brixton etc.

    Why the north? Why Liverpool?

    She had nothing against miners, it was the NUM and Scargill she was fighting.

    No one has yet explained how she was anti Irish either, that is just another Republican "if we say it enough times everyone will believe it" type thing.

    As I say in every thread about Thatcher, 90% of the people posting bile about her have no idea why.

    With the exception of Nodin, who has raised some very valid points worthy of discussion, no one else has said why she should be hated.


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    #250
    Eric Cartman
    Registered Users Posts: 26,282 ✭✭✭✭Eric Cartman


    Her foreign policys were awful (IRA, Falklands) but being very right wing economically she was spot on , and socially in the UK she made a few bad descisions but overall she wasnt that bad.


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    #251
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    I didnt like her often abrasive attitude but she wasn't the devil incarnate either. As for the North, well she did sign the Anglo-Irish Agreement which gave the Government of the Republic a say in the running of the North.
    She made mistakes, but I don't think that she was the malevolent bitch many chose to portray her as.
    As for the Falklands, I think she was right to prevent the unelected military Junta from invading them, though I do think she could have avoided sinking the Belgrano.
    Issues around politics and individuals are seldom as black and white as many posters would like to paint them.


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    #252
    Spread
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,876 ✭✭✭Spread


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Why the north? Why Liverpool?

    She had nothing against miners, it was the NUM and Scargill she was fighting.

    No one has yet explained how she was anti Irish either, that is just another Republican "if we say it enough times everyone will believe it" type thing.

    As I say in every thread about Thatcher, 90% of the people posting bile about her have no idea why.

    With the exception of Nodin, who has raised some very valid points worthy of discussion, no one else has said why she should be hated.

    She had nothing against miners, it was the NUM and Scargill she was fighting.
    She had nothing against the young sailors in the Belgrano ....... it was Galtieri and the Argentinians that she was fighting.

    No one has yet explained how she was anti Irish either, that is just another Republican "if we say it enough times everyone will believe it" type thing.
    More bollox from someone who does not capture the zeitgeist. You seem to have a difficulty in understanding axioms

    As I say in every thread about Thatcher, 90% of the people posting bile about her have no idea why.
    Both her children keep her at arms length ......... not just recently as she's in her dotage ........ but from the time that they were allowed to think for themselves. Perhaps they are included in your 90%

    With the exception of Nodin, who has raised some very valid points worthy of discussion, no one else has said why she should be hated
    Why the umbilical-like attachment to someone that really despised the working classes?

    Now I understand ........ 'twas the Falklands adventure:

    Travelling to Portsmouth to see the Task Force Flagship HMS Hermes return I was totally overcome to see and feel the effects of "humanity in excelcis" as the Hermes steamed past utter thousands upon thousands of well wishers who crammed every square inch of Pompey`s waterfront. Balloons, flags, flares, fireworks, screams were players among the panoply of helicopters, planes, seagulls and waves - .and childrens cries and sobbing tears, orchestrated together by the beat of Hermes` engines. On lookers at one stage entered the water in an seeming effort to get closer to, to commune with the Hermes, that rusty old ship that was the centre point of countless thousands of pairs of eyes.Almost a seaside Christening, with the wake of Hermes as the Holy Water.


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    #253
    Ellis Dee
    Registered Users Posts: 2,512 ✭✭✭Ellis Dee


    Fail for the title of the thread! When I saw the "was", I thought the aul bitch had croaked at last. I was just about to uncork the champagne when I looked up the Sunday Toadygraph site, but there's no mention of her having kicked the bucket. I think they'd have noticed it if she had.:rolleyes:

    I remember when they nearly got her in Brighton, but failed. Soon after, an English acquaintance of mine walked up to me and asked. "Can't you fcuking Irish do anything right? She's still alive!":D

    Oh well, I suppose the bottle of champagne and the hazel stake to drive through her heart will have to wait till another day.;)


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    #254
    MMAIRELANDFAN
    Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭MMAIRELANDFAN


    Horrible Horrible woman

    Long painful end would be well deserved.


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    #255
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Spread wrote: »
    She had nothing against miners, it was the NUM and Scargill she was fighting.
    She had nothing against the young sailors in the Belgrano ....... it was Galtieri and the Argentinians that she was fighting.

    No one has yet explained how she was anti Irish either, that is just another Republican "if we say it enough times everyone will believe it" type thing.
    More bollox from someone who does not capture the zeitgeist. You seem to have a difficulty in understanding axioms

    As I say in every thread about Thatcher, 90% of the people posting bile about her have no idea why.
    Both her children keep her at arms length ......... not just recently as she's in her dotage ........ but from the time that they were allowed to think for themselves. Perhaps they are included in your 90%

    With the exception of Nodin, who has raised some very valid points worthy of discussion, no one else has said why she should be hated
    Why the umbilical-like attachment to someone that really despised the working classes?

    Now I understand ........ 'twas the Falklands adventure:

    Travelling to Portsmouth to see the Task Force Flagship HMS Hermes return I was totally overcome to see and feel the effects of "humanity in excelcis" as the Hermes steamed past utter thousands upon thousands of well wishers who crammed every square inch of Pompey`s waterfront. Balloons, flags, flares, fireworks, screams were players among the panoply of helicopters, planes, seagulls and waves - .and childrens cries and sobbing tears, orchestrated together by the beat of Hermes` engines. On lookers at one stage entered the water in an seeming effort to get closer to, to commune with the Hermes, that rusty old ship that was the centre point of countless thousands of pairs of eyes.Almost a seaside Christening, with the wake of Hermes as the Holy Water.

    You haven't actually said anything there other than attack me.


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    #256
    bwatson
    Registered Users Posts: 630 ✭✭✭bwatson


    Ellis Dee wrote: »
    I remember when they nearly got her in Brighton, but failed. Soon after, an English acquaintance of mine walked up to me and asked. "Can't you fcuking Irish do anything right? She's still alive!":D

    Just goes to show that you get classless people in all walks of life and from all nations on earth doesn't it?


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    #257
    wendell borton
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,336 ✭✭✭wendell borton


    Thatcher is dead party mix
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsq3H_6XuFA


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    #258
    bwatson
    Registered Users Posts: 630 ✭✭✭bwatson


    Spread wrote: »
    She had nothing against miners, it was the NUM and Scargill she was fighting.
    She had nothing against the young sailors in the Belgrano ....... it was Galtieri and the Argentinians that she was fighting.

    I'm still finding it difficult to understand this one. Britain and Argentina were at war following the Argentine invasion of the Falkland Islands. A Royal Navy submarine sunk an Argentine cruiser which was moving into position to attack the British task force. Could you please explain to me exactly what was wrong about the British Prime Minister's decision to authorise the attack on the hostile ship before British lives were further endangered? I actually would really like an answer as for the life of me I cannot understand the counter argument!


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    #259
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    bwatson wrote: »
    I'm still finding it difficult to understand this one. Britain and Argentina were at war following the Argentine invasion of the Falkland Islands. A Royal Navy submarine sunk an Argentine cruiser which was moving into position to attack the British task force. Could you please explain to me exactly what was wrong about the British Prime Minister's decision to authorise the attack on the hostile ship before British lives were further endangered? I actually would really like an answer as for the life of me I cannot understand the counter argument!
    Actually all, and I mean ALL the evidence is that the Belgrano had changed course and was no longer a threat to the task force.
    That said I would refer you to my earlier post where I for one have refused to villify her.


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    #260
    beeroclock
    Closed Accounts Posts: 237 ✭✭beeroclock


    Nodin wrote: »
    Divisive, destructive cow. Promoted homophobic legislation, aided Pinochet, refused to enact sanctions against Apartheid SA.

    I so disagree with you sir

    I remember in history class years ago bringing her up in class and my teacher saying "sure didnt she defeat the miners" to which I replied "ya the ordinary working man" akward silence ensued from my erudite teacher

    Actually now that I think about it more I agree whole heartedly


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    #261
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    lividduck wrote: »
    Actually all, and I mean ALL the evidence is that the Belgrano had changed course and was no longer a threat to the task force.
    That said I would refer you to my earlier post where I for one have refused to villify her.

    The Belgrano was zig zaging, so five minutes later she would have been steaming towards the task force.

    The Argentinians and in particular the captain of the Belgrano have confirmed what the orders were and have agreed that it was a reasonable course of action.


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    #262
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    The Belgrano was zig zaging, so five minutes later she would have been steaming towards the task force.

    That is the most silly statement I have seen all day.

    Do you know how long exactly its takes and how many miles it takes to make a single turn?
    Seriously?
    Absolutely daft "5 minute" statement!

    Its clear you are going to espouse one way and the like of I, another - never to see eye to eye.
    ...But your not helping yourself by making daft inaccurate statements like above!


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    #263
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    The Belgrano was zig zaging, so five minutes later she would have been steaming towards the task force.

    The Argentinians and in particular the captain of the Belgrano have confirmed what the orders were and have agreed that it was a reasonable course of action.
    The Captain of the sub that sunk her says different, but in any event I can agree that if the junta had not attacked the Falklands then the Belgrano incident would not have occured.
    I refuse to demonise her because as I said in my previous posts nothing is ever that black and white.


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    #264
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Biggins wrote: »
    That is the most silly statement I have seen all day.

    Do you know how long exactly its takes and how many miles it takes to make a single turn?
    Seriously?
    Absolutely daft "5 minute" statement!

    Its clear you are going to espouse one way and the like of I, another - never to see eye to eye.
    ...But your not helping yourself by making daft inaccurate statements like above!

    It was a warship, not an oil tanker!


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    #265
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    It was a warship, not an oil tanker!
    Duh!
    I know!
    Do you think it still can spin on a coin or something?


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    #266
    true
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭true


    Biggins wrote: »
    Duh!
    I know!
    Do you think it still can spin on a coin or something?

    it does not go for a hundred miles in reverse without changing direction either, like a French or italian tank as the old saying goes.
    Fair play to Mrs T, she was proved right in the end and defeated ( or helped defeat) communism, Gadaffi, The Argentinian regime, The Provos, the backward inefficient unions etc
    In the eighties hundreds of thousands of Irish people left and got good paying jobs in England....so she saved our economy then too, as well as through all the EC funds her country paid and which we beneffitted from.


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    #267
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Biggins wrote: »
    Duh!
    I know!
    Do you think it still can spin on a coin or something?

    No, but do you think that in the middle of a conflict, the Argentine navy was sending their prize asset out for a bit of a jaunt? The only way the Belgrano wasn't a threat was if it was in harbour, or two thousand miles away. The direction it was facing is irrelevant.

    The thing is Biggins, I get the impression that it could have been 200 metres from Hermes with all its guns and exocets pointing at it, and people would still call the sinking a war crime.


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    #268
    true
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭true


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    The thing is Biggins, I get the impression that it could have been 200 metres from Hermes with all its guns and exocets pointing at it, and people would still call the sinking a war crime.

    In this country some people were indoctrinated to hate people like Mrs Thatcher.


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    #269
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    true wrote: »
    it does not go for a hundred miles in reverse without changing direction either, like a French or italian tank as the old saying goes.,.

    Fuck me, you must be a proffessional comedian with up to date wit like that. Are you on "Have I got news for you?"
    true wrote: »
    Fair play to Mrs T, she was proved right in the end and defeated ( or helped defeat) communism,.

    Communism fell because of inherent internal instabilities.
    true wrote: »
    Gadaffi, ,.

    Hilarious.
    true wrote: »
    The Argentinian regime, ,.


    The argentinians did that.
    true wrote: »
    The Provos, ,.

    Yep. Thats why long Kesh is still full and Gerry and Marty are behind bars.

    true wrote: »
    the backward inefficient unions etc,.

    ....yeah, destroying entire communities, creating yet more divide between wealthy and poor, yet more concentration of wealth in the South east....


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    #270
    Biggins
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 34,567 ✭✭✭✭Biggins


    true wrote: »
    ...In the eighties hundreds of thousands of Irish people left and got good paying jobs in England....so she saved our economy then too, as well as through all the EC funds her country paid and which we beneffitted from.

    I was one of them - and NO, she didn't 'save' our economy!
    Jeeze, what a statement on its own! :pac:
    The EC funds help but they sure as hell didn't come out of her pocket, just the ordinary hard working people that she at the time was cracking down upon with her class war, police with truncheons and her strong-arm rightwing, conservative ideology!
    true wrote: »
    In this country some people were indoctrinated to hate people like Mrs Thatcher.

    ...Meanwhile some of us lived also with the people in England that had to suffer from her arsehole thuggery also!
    ...And we both shared the effects of her economy ideology!

    Bloody hell, there people on here with rosy bloody mental images about the toffee-nosed, snobbish bint!


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    #271
    true
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,325 ✭✭✭true


    Biggins wrote: »
    NO, she didn't 'save' our economy!
    to put it another way so, she country pumped billions of euros in to Ireland through the EC structural funds, cap etc. And hundreds of thousands of Irish people got well paid jobs in the UK when Haughey could offer no more than the hairshirt at home ( when he was living like a lord and keeping a secret mistress). Thatcher was reportedly an extremely hard worker ( no surprise she was reading work papers / reports etc in the early hours of the morning - 2am? - when the bomb went off in Brighton ). In those turbulent years of the eighties some of our security forces were killed fighting the PIRA but her security forces done the brunt of the work. When it came to fighting the cold war we sheltered behind the UK too. Gadaffi supplied the PIRA : she was proved right in relation to his regime too and who allowed American warplanes to use the UK as a base to bomb Libya in the eighties?
    She had a canny knack in being proved right about everything. If only we had her here in charge of things during the tiger years we would not have suffered from corrupt politicians, light touch banking regulation and government spending doubling in ten years.


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