Flying Tricolour at Stormont

Cú Giobach

bwatson wrote: »

Then I'm sorry, that wasn't my intention. I'm not discussing justifications, rights or wrongs in any way. The Irish rebellions and War of Independence simply took the form of an insurgency rather than a conventional war. There's nothing necessarily wrong with fighting in that manner I suppose.

Of course there is nothing wrong in fighting that way, war is war and I would hardly consider the tactics used in so called "conventional war" any more pleasant.
In war the objective is to disable the enemy while loosing as few of your own as possible, the days of soldiers lining up in neat rows to take pot shots at each other are well and truly gone. Both your country and the US now often "take out" targets from miles away at no danger to themselves, the only difference between that and an ambush here in 1920, is that today it is much safer and easier for the UK and US to ambush from a distance with the technology available.

However, I don't believe that the killing of unarmed people in their houses is ever in any way justified. Not by IRA assassination squads, not by US Special Forces today.

You should include the RAF and USAF in that also, as they killed quite a few unarmed and in their own homes during the 20th century.
In war spies are/were executed out of hand, the people concerned here were warned (a chance very few spies get), they ignored the warning and were executed.

woodoo

junder wrote: »

I was cheering for France when they played ireland

I take particular pleasure at Northern Ireland's regular humiliation on the football pitch

eitlean

Why not just put up the EU flag or no flags? Nobody is offended that way.

An English fella living in the North of Ireland said to me when speaking of all the Union Jacks on lamposts around the 12th of July: "It's like dogs pissing against lamposts marking territory". I agree.

I wouldn't want the Tricolour disrespected and becoming entangled in some endless/pointless debate.

I am true to the idea of a Republic. Fairness, equality and justice. I don't see that under a Monarchial government and therefore am not supportive of the Union. But I won't splash my Republican ideology in others' faces either. Respect is key.

Getting Nationalists and Republicans to be on an equal footing in key areas(policing, court rooms, committees etc. etc.) is what matters to me. This sort of guff about flags distracts from what is important.

thecommietommy

eitlean wrote: »

Why not just put up the EU flag or no flags? Nobody is offended that way.

The Sottish Parliament flys the Union Jack and the flag of St Andrew and the EU flag. So therefore it's not as extreme a suggestion from Sinn Fein as I initially thought.

KeithAFC

woodoo wrote: »

Who could possible be in government without law and order being a priority. The PSNI have changed a lot since the RUC days.

Sinn Fein didn't recognise the police force of Northern Ireland. Now that Ian Paisley sorted that, they are now in government and power sharing with the DUP. Not that either of the DUP or Sinn Fein make much of a difference anyway.

junder

Sound of Silence wrote: »

junder wrote: »

I was cheering for France when they played ireland

So then you can't complain, I guess. :rolleyes:

I don't

fasttalkerchat

KeithAFC wrote: »

Sinn Fein didn't recognise the police force of Northern Ireland. Now that Ian Paisley sorted that, they are now in government and power sharing with the DUP. Not that either of the DUP or Sinn Fein make much of a difference anyway.

They palnned for the disbandment of the RUC to come before a United Ireland so clearly they planned to accept a new police force.

Sound of Silence

KeithAFC wrote: »

Sinn Fein didn't recognise the police force of Northern Ireland. Now that Ian Paisley sorted that, they are now in government and power sharing with the DUP. Not that either of the DUP or Sinn Fein make much of a difference anyway.

Ian Paisley sorted that out? Don't make me laugh.

The St Andrews Agreement was made just a year after the man himself stated "IRA/Sinn Fein" would never get into a power-sharing government...Over our dead bodies".

For many Unionists, Ian Paisley conceded a lot in the discussions.

Clearly "Sunningdale for slow learners".

Sound of Silence

junder wrote: »

I don't

You had no problem cheering against the All-Ireland squad?

I'm sure the Ulster Rugby players wouldn't be too happy about that.

KeithAFC

Sound of Silence wrote: »

Ian Paisley sorted that out? Don't make me laugh.

The St Andrews Agreement was made just a year after the man himself stated "IRA/Sinn Fein" would never get into a power-sharing government...Over our dead bodies".

For many Unionists, Ian Paisley conceded a lot in the discussions.

Clearly "Sunningdale for slow learners".

You clearly forget what happened then. Ian Paisley put it to Sinn Fein about the police issue and it would only happen if Sinn Fein supported the police. Ian Paisley wanted the foundations built on rock.

woodoo

KeithAFC wrote: »

Sinn Fein didn't recognise the police force of Northern Ireland. Now that Ian Paisley sorted that, they are now in government and power sharing with the DUP. Not that either of the DUP or Sinn Fein make much of a difference anyway.

Paisley piggybacked on David Trimble's work though.

Sound of Silence

KeithAFC wrote: »

You clearly forget what happened then. Ian Paisley put it to Sinn Fein about the police issue and it would only happen if Sinn Fein supported the police. Ian Paisley wanted the foundations built on rock.

I believe that you are under the illusion that the Agreement was brokered by the DUP, or that Ian Paisley had ever even supported a Power Sharing agreement. I'm sure that Ian Paisley wasn't even delighted that the Irish Government were considerably involved in the negotiations.

Whatever support he has currently for the Power Sharing Agreement would seem to be a begrudging acceptance.

As noted previously, he fiercely opposed the prospect and was adamant that he would not cooperate. Twelve months later he agrees, based on Sinn Fein's agreement to recognise the Police Service in Northern Ireland.

Prior to this acceptance, Sinn Fein had placed a mandate with Ard Chomhairle stating that they would agree to the terms of the Agreement "only when the power-sharing institutions are established and when the Ard Chomhairle is satisfied that the policing and justice powers will be transferred. Or if this does not happen within the St Andrews time frame, only when acceptable new partnership arrangements to implement the Good Friday Agreement are in place".

Don't mistake concessionary agreements and negotiations with Unionist victories.

F1f1

woodoo wrote: »

Who could possible be in government without law and order being a priority. The PSNI have changed a lot since the RUC days.

To imply that the PSNI is an unbiased and impartial force of law and order is completely inaccurate. You only need to look at recent new to see that this isn't true: here and here And what about Marian Price who has been imprisoned without trial after her Royal Pardon was 'lost'. Even though the courts have twice ordered her to be released on bail she is still being held indefinitely and has spent 300 days in solitary confinement. To say that the PSNI is the same as any other 'normal' police force is to ignore the facts.

Dubhlinner

F1f1 wrote: »

To imply that the PSNI is an unbiased and impartial force of law and order is completely inaccurate. You only need to look at recent new to see that this isn't true: here and here And what about Marian Price who has been imprisoned without trial after her Royal Pardon was 'lost'. Even though the courts have twice ordered her to be released on bail she is still being held indefinitely and has spent 300 days in solitary confinement. To say that the PSNI is the same as any other 'normal' police force is to ignore the facts.

Imprisonment of Marian Price is nothing to do with the psni. Its far higher up. Same with Martin Corey and Gerry McGeough

Actually out of all three Martin Corey is the most sinister. At least with the other two they are making up silly reasons to imprison them. With Martin Corey he is simply imprisoned indefinitely on the word of the Secretary of State.

Be interesting to see what comes of the text message case. Could be just political correctness gone mad. As for searching children hard to know the reasoning. Its not a reflection on the psni in its entirety all the same.

fasttalkerchat

Dubhlinner wrote: »

Imprisonment of Marian Price is nothing to do with the psni. Its far higher up. Same with Martin Corey and Gerry McGeough

Actually out of all three Martin Corey is the most sinister. At least with the other two they are making up silly reasons to imprison them. With Martin Corey he is simply imprisoned indefinitely on the word of the Secretary of State.

Fair play to you for admitting it. I would question the thinking of a state who holds without trial people who oppose the state. Either they learned nothing from the last century or they want to provoke a reaction.

gurramok

On these cases, i've noticed on recent journeys to the North more political signs than ever about these cases which was never there before(last 10yrs, even last year), that is at Newry and in Belfast when travelling on the A1.

Is something happening behind the scenes, that is something at ground level with support or is it this work of dissidents? How significant, I do not know.

fasttalkerchat

gurramok wrote: »

On these cases, i've noticed on recent journeys to the North more political signs than ever about these cases which was never there before(last 10yrs, even last year), that is at Newry and in Belfast when travelling on the A1.

Is something happening behind the scenes, that is something at ground level with support or is it this work of dissidents? How significant, I do not know.

Most of the signs would be from non-provisional republican and independent republican groups but the individuals would have support from republicans right across the board. Some non-republicans also.
One sign I saw for Marian price had the Bobby Sands quote: Everyone, Republican or otherwise, has their own particular part to play.

junder

Sound of Silence wrote: »

junder wrote: »

I don't

You had no problem cheering against the All-Ireland squad?

I'm sure the Ulster Rugby players wouldn't be too happy about that.

Shouldn't be playing for a foreign country then.

Dubhlinner

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

Fair play to you for admitting it.

I'm a bit curious as to your wording here?

I would question the thinking of a state who holds without trial people who oppose the state. Either they learned nothing from the last century or they want to provoke a reaction.

Well McGeough got arrested after he unsuccessfully stood as an independent republican candidate for Stormont. He was imprisoned after a trial relating to an attempted murder decades ago.

Price got arrested after holding a speech for a masked reals member during an Easter rising commemoration.

Corey was just imprisoned on the word of the SOS. Don't know much about him. Its been said he was returned over his political beliefs.

Common denominator is they're all non-provisional republicans with Gerry and Marian being prominent figures and outspoken. The former however did not support or encourage republican violence. His case is fairly heartbreaking really. Has heart condition and a young family. I'd speculate it was done to send a message to other people thinking of going against the grain

fasttalkerchat

Dubhlinner wrote: »

I'm a bit curious as to your wording here?

I had a look through your posts on similar threads and it seems that I have confused you with another poster... someone with another political persuasion. My apologies.

Jimoslimos

junder wrote: »

Shouldn't be playing for a foreign country then.

:rolleyes:
So who do they play for? There isn't a UK rugby team. Might do to inform you on the subtle differences between nations, states and countries.

As for your logic, guess there shouldn't be a West Indies cricket team either. Troll harder.

fasttalkerchat

Jimoslimos wrote: »

:rolleyes:
So who do they play for? There isn't a UK rugby team. Might do to inform you on the subtle differences between nations, states and countries.

As for your logic, guess there shouldn't be a West Indies cricket team either. Troll harder.

He would sooner support Scotland because after generations living here some still can't accept they are Irish now.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

fasttalkerchat wrote: »

He would sooner support Scotland because after generations living here some still can't accept they are Irish now.

You know it's funny because over in Scotland they have the same problem only it is the other way round where people cannot accept they are Scottish and not Irish now

laoch na mona

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

Fixed your post.
There are still plenty of Republican knuckle draggers who see burning the British flag as a hobby. They can usually be identified by their English or Scottish football jerseys. The Love Ulster march in 2006 just brought them all to the same place at the same time. Naturally chaos ensued. The fact that this state felt the need to spend millions of tax euros on extra gardai and security for the Queen's visit last year shows that the government is well aware of the huge anti-English sentiment among the simpletons in this country.

most republicans have nothing against british people or britian in general
its british rule in the north we object to

Broxi_Bear_Eire

laoch na mona wrote: »

most republicans have nothing against british people or britian in general
its british rule in the north we object to

That in general is true but the knuckle draggers the previous poster was talking about come to the fore to often. Having been on the receiving end of physical abuse from them on more than one occasion its hard to dismiss them easily

junder

Jimoslimos wrote: »

junder wrote: »

Shouldn't be playing for a foreign country then.

:rolleyes:
So who do they play for? There isn't a UK rugby team. Might do to inform you on the subtle differences between nations, states and countries.

As for your logic, guess there shouldn't be a West Indies cricket team either. Troll harder.

They can play for who ever they want I am just excercising my right not to support them, what's the problem with that?

blahfckingblah

junder wrote: »

They can play for who ever they want I am just excercising my right not to support them, what's the problem with that?

Its your opinion but it just shows that you refuse to support integration between the different communities on this island. The team is representitive of the island rather than any particular state or political point of view. But yes you are well within your right not to support them, and im glad you arent afraid to excersise your rights.

junder

blahfckingblah wrote: »

junder wrote: »

They can play for who ever they want I am just excercising my right not to support them, what's the problem with that?

Its your opinion but it just shows that you refuse to support integration between the different communities on this island. The team is representitive of the island rather than any particular state or political point of view. But yes you are well within your right not to support them, and im glad you arent afraid to excersise your rights.

Actully all it shows is that I don't support a rugby team

Dudess

The OP said it's political correctness gone mad - surely such insightful, painfully thought out analysis renders any further discussion obsolete.

Glassheart

LordSutch wrote: »

You say that, but it must be somewhat disconcerting for any English football/Rugby supporters hanging out in any Irish pub during a match!
The English may be playing ze Germans, the French, the Russians, or ar anybody elso on the planet, and who will the Irish be cheering for?
Certainly not the English :cool:

The Scots,Welsh and even the Unionists up North are the very same.