Flying Tricolour at Stormont

Richard

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's not an all or nothing zero sum game here. Both flags can fly simultaneously.

But two flags would signify joint authority, which there isn't.

I would expect (or desire) the Union Flag to have ANY place in a United Ireland, so I wouldn't expect the Irish Tricolour to be used in NI now.

Let's have a new flag for NI.

blinding

Unionist outreach to nationalists/republicans/catholics does'nt even run flag deep ! ! !

KeithAFC

Naturally I am fully against flying the flag of the Irish Republic. If we must negotiate, then give them the Ulster nationalist flag (the yellow one).

KeithAFC

Dubhlinner wrote: »

What you basing this on?

They "own" west Belfast sure. Have done so for the last few decades like.

South Belfast? Do they f*ck. SDLP MP. Out of the six MLAs only one of them is Sinn Fein. :rolleyes:

north Belfast? DUP MP and out of six MLAs two are Sinn Fein.

How in the name of god can either of those constituencies be considered "owned" by Sinn Fein?

There has been a lot of myths posted in this thread so far in trying to support Sinn Fein on this motion. Nationalist majority, Sinn Fein rule South Belfast and so on. Just nonsense.

woodoo

junder wrote: »

And should demographics change I have no doubt great joy will be taken in removing the union flag. Until that day the union flag will continue to fly over Stormont, on designated days of course which is roughly a dozen times a year

You will probably find the much more reasonable and less bigoted nationalist community will be OK with both flags. One representing the nationalists. I'm not sure if the Tri Colour is appropriate though.

FloatingVoter

Its a flag. It is made of fabric and hangs off a pole. It doesn't walk, talk or have an opinion of its own other than it might like to flap about in the wind of an afternoon.

That goes for all flags.

Hannibal

Pat D. Almighty wrote: »

As some people have already said, there is a big difference between new settlers wanting their national flag over government buildings and natives wanting a more representative flag flying beside that of the official flag.
Personally, I don't think the Irish tri-colour is suitable. The flag has too much negative baggage in the North.

If there was to be a 32 county republic, I'd like to see this as the flag!

that's the flag of Leinster, what about the other three Provinces?

KeithAFC wrote: »

Naturally I am fully against flying the flag of the Irish Republic. If we must negotiate, then give them the Ulster nationalist flag (the yellow one).

There will be a negotiation that much is clear. I presume the Unionist politicians want the union flag flying on more than fifteen days a year aswell. So the dual solution could be to fly both on a regular basis.
The people of northern Ireland have a dual heritage that is nearly straight down the middle so the flying of both could be symbolic for the future as a sign of respect from both sides rather than shooting down one or the other while claiming supremacy doesn't really work as has been shown many times before.

woodoo

blinding wrote: »

Unionist outreach to nationalists/republicans/catholics does'nt even run flag deep ! ! !

Oppression of all things Irish runs deep up there. Its very difficult for them to psychologically lift the foot from the nationalist neck for some reason.

KeithAFC

woodoo wrote: »

You will probably find the much more reasonable and less bigoted nationalist community will be OK with both flags.

Why should the Tri colour go up? Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. The argument that a good portion of the populace might have an aspiration of joining the Irish Republic is not a good argument to put a flag which represents a Republic on a building which is in the United Kingdom which is not a republic?

If I was a Nationalist, I would find it insulting that my flag would be used as a political football.

woodoo

KeithAFC wrote: »

Why should the Tri colour go up? Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. The argument that a good portion of the populace might have an aspiration of joining the Irish Republic is not a good argument to put a flag which represents a Republic on a building which is in the United Kingdom which is not a republic?

If I was a Nationalist, I would find it insulting that my flag would be used as a political football.

As i mentioned in the post above i'm not too sure about the tri colour. But a flog that the nationalists are happy with must be found.

KeithAFC

woodoo wrote: »

As i mentioned in the post above i'm not too sure about the tri colour. But a flog that the nationalists are happy with must be found.

What do you recommend then?

john reilly

is that you maggie?

steddyeddy

KeithAFC wrote: »

What do you recommend then?

Something to represent the Irish citizens maybe. The old pre nationalist Irish flag was the harp against a blue background. When nationalisim took off the color green was asociated with Ireland.

KeithAFC

steddyeddy wrote: »

Something to represent the Irish citizens maybe. The old pre nationalist Irish flag was the harp against a blue background. When nationalisim took off the color green was asociated with Ireland.

The harp flag seems good then. Perhaps that will do. I'll go with that.

junder

Dotsey wrote: »

Pat D. Almighty wrote: »

As some people have already said, there is a big difference between new settlers wanting their national flag over government buildings and natives wanting a more representative flag flying beside that of the official flag.
Personally, I don't think the Irish tri-colour is suitable. The flag has too much negative baggage in the North.

If there was to be a 32 county republic, I'd like to see this as the flag!

that's the flag of Leinster, what about the other three Provinces?

KeithAFC wrote: »

Naturally I am fully against flying the flag of the Irish Republic. If we must negotiate, then give them the Ulster nationalist flag (the yellow one).

There will be a negotiation that much is clear. I presume the Unionist politicians want the union flag flying on more than fifteen days a year aswell. So the dual solution could be to fly both on a regular basis.
The people of northern Ireland have a dual heritage that is nearly straight down the middle so the flying of both could be symbolic for the future as a sign of respect from both sides rather than shooting down one or the other while claiming supremacy doesn't really work as has been shown many times before.

So you will be ask for the union flag to
Be flown at linster house to symbolize this joint heritage your talking about?

woodoo

KeithAFC wrote: »

What do you recommend then?

I don't know i have not given it much thought. My gut feeling is that the tri colour would be inappropriate.

KeithAFC

junder wrote: »

So you will be ask for the union flag to
Be flown at linster house to symbolize this joint heritage your talking about?

Good point junder. I will perhaps even E mail the Oireachtas and recommend this.

Jimoslimos

Stormont is the seat of government for NI, not the UK. Decisions made there have no bearing on any other part of the Union.

Westminister is the proper place for the Union flag, devolved governments should fly their own flag.

No flag or an agreed flag makes more sense.

woodoo

KeithAFC wrote: »

Good point junder. I will perhaps even E mail the Oireachtas and recommend this.

Not the union jack, but if the people of British heritage wanted a flag of some sort i'm sure something fair could be found. Is there an appetite for it though?

steddyeddy

KeithAFC wrote: »

The harp flag seems good then. Perhaps that will do. I'll go with that.

The beauty of comprimise!

Hannibal

junder wrote: »

So you will be ask for the union flag to
Be flown at linster house to symbolize this joint heritage your talking about?

What dual heritage is in Ireland? the legacy the British left down here was one of oppression and cruelty over centuries. Only a very very small minority of people in Ireland would class themsleves as British as these are mostly on the southside of Dublin, Wicklow and the Donegal region probably totalling around 5% of the population.

Up north you're talking about closer to the 40% region who would class themselves primarily as Irish.

The difference is if you're born in the north you're entitled to self determination to be Irish or British or both, hence why there is a realistic shout for both to be recognised.
If you're born in Ireland, you're Irish and have no direct right to British citizenship.

But then again you might have some level of luck requesting the union flag be flown anywhere Fine Gael has a majority including Leinster House and town and city councils

bwatson

Its the Union Flag, not the Union Jack.

woodoo

bwatson wrote: »

Its the Union Flag, not the Union Jack.

Sorry Bubba, the butchers apron

bwatson

woodoo wrote: »

Sorry Bubba, the butchers apron

I couldn't care less what you decide to call the Union Flag, just as long as you know its called the Union Flag and not the Union Jack.

Its maybe a bit pathetic that you feel the need to use the phrase "butcher's apron" simply to highlight your political persuasions but its all about personal choice and freedom of expression I suppose. Or maybe you use the pejorative to provoke an angry response or something? Either way I'm fairly apathetic. It's a beautiful flag and its mine, so you are free to call it what you wish.

blahfckingblah

junder wrote: »

So you will be ask for the union flag to
Be flown at linster house to symbolize this joint heritage your talking about?

I would suggest anyone who is actively seeking ireland to once again come under british rule should, I don't know anyone here who is seeking that and therefore don't see why anyone would?

Richard

woodoo wrote: »

Not the union jack, but if the people of British heritage wanted a flag of some sort i'm sure something fair could be found. Is there an appetite for it though?

There is no way any British flag should fly on an Irish government building (unless for a visiting politician/dignitary). It would imply British sovereignty over the Republic. Similarly the tricolour shouldn't fly at Stormont (unless someone important from the south is visiting) Most other Irish flags would probably be fine, such as the four provinces flag, or the harp flag (which despite being used for Leinster has been used for the whole island)

But... as we all get mature and grown up about these things, we should cast a look across to the continent where flags of many nations fly alongside each other. Could anyone object to some sort of display of the Union flag, Tricolour and flags of places such as England, Scotland, Wales, Isle of Man, etc...? Both in NI and the Republic?

smcgiff

Flying the Irish tricolour would be idiotic, but so is flying the union flag alone. Clearly there is a majority in ni for a devolved ni within the UK.

Hopefully this debate will result in an agreed flag for ni and for a ni anthem, to replace the British national Anthem which makes no sense in a purely ni context (apart from winding up and disenfranchising a large minority of ni)

Sunnyisland

A "four provinces flag" incorporates the flags of the four Irish provinces of Ulster, Munster, Leinster and Connacht, and is sometimes used to represent the entire island of Ireland. It is used by nationalists and by some all-Ireland institutions such as the Irish Rugby Football Union and is intended to be a more neutral flag than the Irish tricolour.

KeithAFC

smcgiff wrote: »

Flying the Irish tricolour would be idiotic, but so is flying the union flag alone. Clearly there is a majority in ni for a devolved ni within the UK.

Hopefully this debate will result in an agreed flag for ni and for a ni anthem, to replace the British national Anthem which makes no sense in a purely ni context (apart from winding up and disenfranchising a large minority of ni)

A new flag would be meaning a new nation as far as im concerned. Northern Ireland is in the United Kingdom. The flag of the United Kingdom is the Union Flag of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

If we are to have a new flag, then we should have a new nation. What is the point of creating a new flag for a country in the UK which already has a flag representing that Union.

Like I said, the Harp flag seems fine to me. But if you want to get political about it (which Sinn Fein seem to be doing), then don't even bother with the flag of the Irish Republic. There is no point in having that flag up on Stormont in a country which is not a Republic.

Sunnyisland

A "four provinces flag" incorporates the flags of the four Irish provinces of Ulster, Munster, Leinster and Connacht, and is sometimes used to represent the entire island of Ireland. It is used by nationalists and by some all-Ireland institutions such as the Irish Rugby Football Union and is intended to be a more neutral flag than the Irish tricolour.

As not all of Ulster is under British rule,this flag might be a compromise.