Flying Tricolour at Stormont

junder

realies wrote: »

A "four provinces flag" incorporates the flags of the four Irish provinces of Ulster, Munster, Leinster and Connacht, and is sometimes used to represent the entire island of Ireland. It is used by nationalists and by some all-Ireland institutions such as the Irish Rugby Football Union and is intended to be a more neutral flag than the Irish tricolour.

As not all of Ulster is under British rule,this flag might be a compromise.

Why is having an Irish flag a comprise?

JustinDee

The Irish.
Love arguing every minutae of the most irrelevant perceived 'problems'. Flags?? Seriously, isn't it about time this bloody place grew up and woke up?
Its a wonder there are only 32 counties on the island. Tribal to the last and pointlessly so.

blahfckingblah

junder wrote: »

Why is having an Irish flag a comprise?

well to be fair I see that flag as more of a representation of the island than of statehood. In my opinion it would help to make everyone feel included as the flag that is usually hung does not represent the second largest grouping of people in northern island. It may not seem like a big thing but some young nationalists may become disillusioned with northern politics when the symbols used represent one grouping. In my opinion it should either have a flag everyone can agree on or 2 flags.

KeithAFC

blahfckingblah wrote: »

well to be fair I see that flag as more of a representation of the island than of statehood. In my opinion it would help to make everyone feel included as the flag that is usually hung does not represent the second largest grouping of people in northern island. It may not seem like a big thing but some young nationalists may become disillusioned with northern politics when the symbols used represent one grouping. In my opinion it should either have a flag everyone can agree on or 2 flags.

This is nonsense to be fair. It is democracy in work. The majority of people support the Union with Great Britain. Simple as that. It is up to the people of Northern Ireland to change that if they wish. If people want a United Ireland, go out and vote for it if the chance to do so comes along.

blahfckingblah

KeithAFC wrote: »

This is nonsense to be fair. It is democracy in work. The majority of people support the Union with Great Britain. Simple as that. It is up to the people of Northern Ireland to change that if they wish. If people want a United Ireland, go out and vote for it if the chance to do so comes along.

a more inclusive symbol does not equal a united Ireland

JustinDee

blahfckingblah wrote: »

a more inclusive symbol does not equal a united Ireland

It doesn't even symbolise an inclusive Republic of Ireland.

antoobrien

realies wrote: »

A "four provinces flag" incorporates the flags of the four Irish provinces of Ulster, Munster, Leinster and Connacht, and is sometimes used to represent the entire island of Ireland. It is used by nationalists and by some all-Ireland institutions such as the Irish Rugby Football Union and is intended to be a more neutral flag than the Irish tricolour.

As not all of Ulster is under British rule,this flag might be a compromise.

The tricolur is supposed to represent the gael/nationailst on one side & the orange/loyalist on the other, with the white being peace.

Can't think of anything more inclusive than that

Ellis Dee

They should fly the tricolour at Stormont. Do the Scots not fly their national flag at Holyrood, alongside the Union Jack? The Åland Islands, an autonomous Swedish-speaking part of Finland, fly their own flag alongside the Finnish one ...:):)

There are plenty of examples, and the Nationalists are a very substantial majority in Northern Ireland. The Good Friday Agreement was largely based on the key concept of "parity of esteem", and it's about time the two communities put that into practice a bit more. This would be an excellent opportunity for Unionists to make a gesture, to act generously, and I hope it would be appreciated and reciprocated by Nationalists.:):)

KeithAFC

Ellis Dee wrote: »

They should fly the tricolour at Stormont. Do the Scots not fly their national flag at Holyrood, alongside the Union Jack? The Åland Islands, an autonomous Swedish-speaking part of Finland, fly their own flag alongside the Finnish one ...:):)

There are plenty of examples, and the Nationalists are a very substantial majority in Northern Ireland. The Good Friday Agreement was largely based on the key concept of "parity of esteem", and it's about time the two communities put that into practice a bit more. This would be an excellent opportunity for Unionists to make a gesture, to act generously, and I hope it would be appreciated and reciprocated by Nationalists.:):)

We aren't a Republic though Ellis. The Scottish flag is flown in Scotland next to the Union flag because Scotland is in the Union. English flag likewise and so on.

Ellis Dee

KeithAFC wrote: »

We aren't a Republic though Ellis. The Scottish flag is flown in Scotland next to the Union flag because Scotland is in the Union. English flag likewise and so on.

Not yet, but tiocfaidh ár lá, as they say.:D:D

Seriously, though, allowing the tricolour to fly at Stormont , would recognise the quasi-joint sovereignty that exists through the various all-Ireland bodies and the arrangements that go with them. It would probably also lie in Unionists' own long-term interests and give them a bit of moral high ground.

TheONeill1641

The Union Jack is more foreign to this land than the Irish Tri-colour. Yes the north is still part of the UK but you got to remember this is a foreign occupation of the 6 counties which will slowly but surely come to an end.

The Union Jack once flew over Dublin Castle and other Government buildings in the South but we have removed this after many years of struggle. The Tri Colour will fly in the North, maybe not now but in next 2-3-10 years, whatever it takes...yes you may have the Unionist majority in government currently to stop this but this is gradually changing. The 2011 census results due out this year will show an ever increasing Catholic population in the North. The Protestants in the north part of our Island have a much older population with a much higher death rate and lower birth rate than the Catholic population. Not only this but Catholics have currently more children in schools and the greater percentage of our children are going on to Universities.

This all points in one direction....a well educated Catholic majority in the North which will demand recognition by a state which still does not fully embrace or respect our Irish heritage and culture. Slowly the British State in the North is being dismantled and the quicker this happens the better for everyone. Also the Republic has many problems of its own to sort out before full unification can happen...but there is no stopping this!!!

Peter Robinson himself admitted he could be the last Protestant First Minister...as he is aware of the changing demographics of the North. Unionists Politicians will have to reach out to the Catholic community in order to maintain the Union...what better way to start than to fly the only flag we our loyal to and stop kidding themselves that they can just ignore us and live in the past.

To call the tricolour ‘foreign’ is completely kidding yourselves......it is a flag of this island and didn’t come beyond the seas like the blood stained Union Jack!!

Below is an interesting link which highlights how the North is becoming Greener.....

http://endgameinulster.blogspot.co.uk/

KeithAFC

what better way to start than to fly the only flag we our loyal to and stop kidding themselves that they can just ignore us and live in the past.

Sinn Fein are deluding themselves like Peter Weir said if they think this will happen. The ground work is in place in the GFA for all Republicans. If they want a Republic, vote for it. Until then, the Union flag is the only flag on display at the moment.

Chuck Stone

TheONeill1641 wrote: »

TNot only this but Catholics have currently more children in schools and the greater percentage of our children are going on to Universities.

I've read that young Protestants used to expect to follow their parents into the trades, business, and the PS/CS so education wasn't as much of a concern as it was for Catholics who had less opportunity in those fields.

I think a lesser educated PUL population is a bad thing for the north. We could do without the Willie Frazers of the north becoming the future leaders of the PUL community.

TheONeill1641

KeithAFC wrote: »

Sinn Fein are deluding themselves like Peter Weir said if they think this will happen. The ground work is in place in the GFA for all Republicans. If they want a Republic, vote for it. Until then, the Union flag is the only flag on display at the moment.

Keith, where Sinn Fein also deluding themselves when they proposed sharing power with Unionists?? Big Ian 'Never' Paisley got up and said the famous 'Never!!.....Never!!....Never!!'......it should of been 'some day....some day'....you and other Unionists cannot stop the Nationalist bandwagon....it just keeps on rolling!!!

From the figures in that link on my previous post, if you bothered to read them, add up to one thing....the end of the orange culture in Ireland (higher death rate and lower birth rate).....nature has a funny way of correcting itself.

Unionists need to realise that without extending their hands of friendship NOW....to the Catholics, they will only increase their willingness to do all within their power to create change in their favour....damaging any chance of Catholics even considering a compromise on staying within the Union when the inevitable Catholic majority comes about.

junder

TheONeill1641 wrote: »

KeithAFC wrote: »

Sinn Fein are deluding themselves like Peter Weir said if they think this will happen. The ground work is in place in the GFA for all Republicans. If they want a Republic, vote for it. Until then, the Union flag is the only flag on display at the moment.

Keith, where Sinn Fein also deluding themselves when they proposed sharing power with Unionists?? Big Ian 'Never' Paisley got up and said the famous 'Never!!.....Never!!....Never!!'......it should of been 'some day....some day'....you and other Unionists cannot stop the Nationalist bandwagon....it just keeps on rolling!!!

From the figures in that link on my previous post, if you bothered to read them, add up to one thing....the end of the orange culture in Ireland (higher death rate and lower birth rate).....nature has a funny way of correcting itself.

Unionists need to realise that without extending their hands of friendship NOW....to the Catholics, they will only increase their willingness to do all within their power to create change in their favour....damaging any chance of Catholics even considering a compromise on staying within the Union when the inevitable Catholic majority comes about.

The end of orange culture? And how is this to be achieve? Through Ethnic cleansing?

maccored

junder wrote: »

The end of orange culture? And how is this to be achieve? Through Ethnic cleansing?

Through the dwindling numbers of unionists over time, i'd assume he meant.

HemlockOption

timesnap wrote: »

Smash the unions,nice that you can turn a link into a word after only six posts,you are quick.
Not so quick about the spirit of the GFA it seems though.

It is a pain in the ass when posters who complain about political correctness gone mad, forget that the referendum that brought a peace to this Island was approved by (approx) 90% of the Island of Ireland.

They wanted Peace even if the longed for 32 County Ireland would have to be long fingered.

Perhaps your solution would be for even more fruitless deaths.?
even if Catholics where in the majority do you think they would want to unite with our failed 26 County Republic?
Why would they with the corrupt shower that led us to our doom?

I think we all know the answer to that.
Related to this, if we had a referendum today on whether to hand back the deeds of this country to the mothership, what do you think the result would be? Is the Easter 'Rising' of a thousand hundred years ago relevant anymore ?

Chuck Stone

junder wrote: »

The end of orange culture? And how is this to be achieve? Through Ethnic cleansing?

FFS can you not drop it with the doomsday shit? Even if there was a UI (which I think is at least a generation away fwiw) the PUL community would be free to live their lives as they choose.

In fact the PUL community would make up a considerable political force within a UI and would, paradoxically, be in a far better position to influence policy that pertains to them.

I can only begin to imagine some of the strange coalitions that would emerge in the event of a UI.

TheONeill1641

Percentage of Catholics in each Electoral Ward and DED in Ulster based on census figures from 2001 and 2006 for Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland, respectively. (Key: 0-10% Dark orange; 10-30% mid orange; 30-50% light orange; 50-70% light green; 70-90% mid green; 90-100% dark green.)


The above diagram shows the break up in the north in 2001.......I think you will agree there is alot of green....and yet there is no recognition of our Irish identity in government buildings but this will change!!

[Removed Image]

Results in Northern Ireland from the last three UK General Elections, including the 2000 by-Election in South Antrim. 1997,2000,2001 and 2005. Dark green = SF. Light Green= SDLP Red =DUP and light Purple UUP

The orange culture is slowing dying on its own...it was the Unionist Population and their ancestors that tried to carry out ethnic cleansing but the Irish race is much better than that.

One last figure to show how Catholics will eventually call the shots in Ulster once again...may take decades but it is inevitable.

Religious Affiliations in Northern Ireland 1961–2001 Religions 1961 1991 2001 Roman Catholic 34.9% 38.4% 40.3% Presbyterian (Protestant) 29.0% 21.4% 20.7% Church of Ireland (Protestant) 24.2% 17.7% 15.3% Other Religions (including other Protestant) 9.3% 11.5% 9.9% Not Stated 2.0% 7.3% 9.0% None 0.0% 3.8% 5.0%

NO ARGUING WITH FIGURES....let your Union Jack fly alone...for now!!!!

Witcher

Religion has little bearing on it, just because a person is born Catholic in the North does not mean they want to join with the Republic, anyone believing that is deluded.

HemlockOption

Blay wrote: »

Religion has little bearing on it, just because a person is born Catholic in the North does not mean they want to join with the Republic, anyone believing that is deluded.

Well, I don't think anyone is born Catholic. Surely everyone is born in the default position - without any world views - but then their family chooses which club to register them with ? But increasingly, as is the case in the Republic, people are declaring honestly on the census form, that they have moved away from the religion that they were entered into at birth, to a position of 'no religious affiliation'. I don't think you can equate 'Catholic' with 'Irish Republican' any more. I think people are sick of these divisive labels. Suits the purpose of particular agendas I suppose.......

Sound of Silence

As a Northern Irish Nationalist, I honestly couldn't care in the slightest what flag was flown over Stormont.

Why should I?

I have nothing invested in the Northern Irish State, so I certainly don't aspire to claim ownership over it's political powerhouse? I would want to distance myself from it more than anything!

Sound of Silence

JustinDee wrote: »

The Irish.
Love arguing every minutae of the most irrelevant perceived 'problems'. Flags?? Seriously, isn't it about time this bloody place grew up and woke up?
Its a wonder there are only 32 counties on the island. Tribal to the last and pointlessly so.

You mean the Northern Irish?

Sound of Silence

junder wrote: »

So you will be ask for the union flag to
Be flown at linster house to symbolize this joint heritage your talking about?

I certainly don't consider this to be a matter of heritage.

It would be more appropriate to consider it as an overt example of one's own position on the political spectrum.

Perhaps some figures on the number of Southern Unionists would be useful. If this Southern Protestant's opinion is to be considered valid, then I'd imagine such a community would be quite small.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2012/0321/1224313638544.html

woodoo

Blay wrote: »

Religion has little bearing on it, just because a person is born Catholic in the North does not mean they want to join with the Republic, anyone believing that is deluded.

Its is important none the less. Catholics whether they want to remain in the union or not were not raised beating a lambeg drum or burning tri colours on bonfires. No matter what they choose they do not hate Irish culture. So a rise in Catholic numbers is good in that sense.

I believe would be a good thing that the Johnny Adair's, the Willie Fazer's, the Willie McCrea's, the Orange Order type people become a minority in the North. There would be a big psychological shift in the north if the PUL community became a minority.

junder

woodoo wrote: »

Blay wrote: »

Religion has little bearing on it, just because a person is born Catholic in the North does not mean they want to join with the Republic, anyone believing that is deluded.

Accusing unionists of bi
Its is important none the less. Catholics whether they want to remain in the union or not were not raised beating a lambeg drum or burning tri colours on bonfires. No matter what they choose they do not hate Irish culture. So a rise in Catholic numbers is good in that sense.

I believe would be a good thing that the Johnny Adair's, the Willie Fazer's, the Willie McCrea's, the Orange Order type people become a minority in the North. There would be a big psychological shift in the north if the PUL community became a minority.

Accusing unionists of bigotry And yet making a bigoted comment yourself. Irony anybody

woodoo

junder wrote: »

Accusing unionists of bigotry And yet making a bigoted comment yourself. Irony anybody

I don't see the bigotry in my comment. It is a statement of fact that those who hate Irishness and Catholics come from the PUL community. I have no dislike for Protestants, not in the slightest.

blahfckingblah

woodoo wrote: »

I don't see the bigotry in my comment. It is a statement of fact that those who hate Irishness and Catholics come from the PUL community. I have no dislike for Protestants, not in the slightest.

well it was a sweeping statement implying that all protestants were like that in northern island

TheONeill1641

Blay wrote: »

Religion has little bearing on it, just because a person is born Catholic in the North does not mean they want to join with the Republic, anyone believing that is deluded.

Blay,

Take a look at my previous post.

1. Shows increasing Catholic proportion of the Population of the 6 Counties
2. Shows Sinn Fein’s improving performance in each election (as Catholic population increases so does Sinn Fein Power)

What is Sinn Fein’s Nr.1 Objective – 32 County Independent Republic (UNITED IRELAND)

Your comment is ‘deluded’!!

TheONeill1641

blahfckingblah wrote: »

well it was a sweeping statement implying that all protestants were like that in northern island

He’s not saying that all Protestants hate Catholics and Irishness in the North...he’s saying that those who do tend to come from the PUL background....let's not kid ourselves, this is in general true!!

I have Protestant friends and worked with many and I have noticed how slow they are to adopt to change and how they adopt a siege mentality.

We are not trying to drive you into the sea we just want our voices heard and respect the fact that their own Unionist domination days are long gone. We have to build a new shared future...and by respecting a flag of the soon to be majority population of the North is a small thing to ask considering we have had the ‘Butcher’s Apron’ waved in our faces for 100’s of years.

The Irish Rugby team showed how respect is done by not playing the Irish National Anthem at away games.....to many this is hard to swallow but it shows that we can make changes to respect another person’s culture. The GAA allowed the English Rugby team to play at Croke Park...a stadium were their soldiers murdered 13 innocent people attending a GAA match.

Move with the times Unionism or face being the forgotten people left behind by the world.