Flying Tricolour at Stormont

SMASH THE UNIONS

A Northern Ireland Assembly committee will discuss whether the Tricolour should fly alongside the Union Flag at Stormont as part of a debate on good relations.

News link

It's political correctness gone mad. Northern Ireland is British territory and is under no obligation to fly the foreign Republic of Ireland flag. Proponents will claim it's to represent the sizeable Nationalist minority in Northern Ireland. Following that logic, should we fly the Polish flag from all our government buildings? Or the Chinese or Nigerian flag?

Regardless, I think this motion will be defeated. It's just another crazy idea being floated by the politicos up North to justify their existence. Informed people realise that all the big decisions in the province are decided by London.

sarumite

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

A Northern Ireland Assembly committee will discuss whether the Tricolour should fly alongside the Union Flag at Stormont as part of a debate on good relations.

News link

It's political correctness gone mad. Northern Ireland is British territory and is under no obligation to fly the foreign Republic of Ireland flag. Proponents will claim it's to represent the sizeable Nationalist minority in Northern Ireland. Following that logic, should we fly the Polish flag from all our government buildings? Or the Chinese or Nigerian flag?

Regardless, I think this motion will be defeated. It's just another crazy idea being floated by the politicos up North to justify their existence. Informed people realise that all the big decisions in the province are decided by London.

There is a difference between Polish/Chinese/Nigerian immigrants and native people. Your OP shows a complete lack of understanding surrounding NI Politics.

SMASH THE UNIONS

Thanks to Ireland's extremely liberal citizenship laws, the children of Nigerian immigrants born in Ireland are Irish, not Nigerian. Therefore we have a sizeable population of Irish citizens of Nigerian descent. Likewise, the UK has a sizeable number of citizens of Irish descent.

If UK government buildings are forced to fly the foreign Irish flag because of their Irish-descendants minority, then the same logic can be applied to force Irish government buildings to fly the Nigerian flag.

sanbrafyffe

they will have to wait till many years till ireland is united,then they can fly it all they want.i wonder then will the new unionists be asking dublin to let the union jack remain

timesnap

Smash the unions,nice that you can turn a link into a word after only six posts,you are quick.
Not so quick about the spirit of the GFA it seems though.

It is a pain in the ass when posters who complain about political correctness gone mad, forget that the referendum that brought a peace to this Island was approved by (approx) 90% of the Island of Ireland.

They wanted Peace even if the longed for 32 County Ireland would have to be long fingered.

Perhaps your solution would be for even more fruitless deaths.?
even if Catholics where in the majority do you think they would want to unite with our failed 26 County Republic?
Why would they with the corrupt shower that led us to our doom?

SMASH THE UNIONS

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Your post is sending mixed signals. Do you wish to see the Irish tricolour flying alongside the Union Jack in Stormont or not?

This suggests yes:

It is a pain in the ass when posters who complain about political correctness gone mad, forget that the referendum that brought a peace to this Island was approved by (approx) 90% of the Island of Ireland.

This suggests no:

even if Catholics where in the majority do you think they would want to unite with our failed 26 County Republic?
Why would they with the corrupt shower that led us to our doom?

also this is a strawman.

Perhaps your solution would be for even more fruitless deaths?

Lrn2debate

forfuxsake

I think it is a good idea. Most Northern Catholics have no positive feelings at all for the union flag and they will soon represent a majority of people in the north.


If Australia can fly a flag for its aboriginal folk, then there is no reason why NI cannot do likewise.

timesnap

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. Your post is sending mixed signals. Do you wish to see the Irish tricolour flying alongside the Union Jack in Stormont or not?

Ok I will make it clear,I think you know exactly what I mean.
I am grown up and realise that people would rather they or their loved ones were buried due to death by natural cause's.
Flags fade into insignificance when you are burying someone you love who was blown to bits by mindless violence.
I see no harm either way be the Tricolour flown or not.

Its design is Green and Orange with White in the middle to represent peace between both traditions.

Not enough time to debate over 800 years of history,even if there was I am glad for the peace and accept the compromise that was reached,even though in an ideal world I would prefer a united Ireland by consent.

SMASH THE UNIONS

@timesnap

I know what the Irish flag represents, thanks, and you're the only one mentioning the tired old 800 years spiel.

Like you said, flags fade into insignificance when compared to more important matters in the world. Does it make one iota of difference to the daily life of a Northern Irish citizen what colour flag is flying above their powerless devolved parliament? Of course not. So let sleeping dogs lie. As a British territory the Union Jack is the default flag Stormont. No need to rip open old wounds by demanding a foreign flag be forced upon the populace of Ulster.

darkman2

OP if you removed the last "s" from your username your OP would be so ironic.

timesnap

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

@timesnap

I know what the Irish flag represents, thanks, and you're the only one mentioning the tired old 800 years spiel.

Like you said, flags fade into insignificance when compared to more important matters in the world. Does it make one iota of difference to the daily life of a Northern Irish citizen what colour flag is flying above their powerless devolved parliament? Of course not. So let sleeping dogs lie. As a British territory the Union Jack is the default flag Stormont. No need to rip open old wounds by demanding a foreign flag be forced upon the populace of Ulster.

No You are digging up old wounds just by starting this thread,you must have known you would be touching sensitive nerves by trying to turn this non issue into an issue.
It is a British territory until a majority in the six counties vote otherwise.
in the meantime I see no harm in giving comfort to people who have always wished to live under the tricolor,respect is the watchword by either side.

Dubhlinner

Its a unique situation. Calling it a foreign flag is a bit disingenuous... and I think you know this STU and are just saying it for rhetorical purposes.

Unionists have a majority in Stormont. Even if Alliance and the Green MLA sided with nationalists Unionists still significantly outnumber them - so I don't think it will happen.

Progressive republican Conall McDevitt MLA said something interesting

"“The flags issue will have to be discussed. There are three possible outcomes from an SDLP point of view — both flags, no flags or an agreed flag. The symbols inside the building at present are representative of its history. It would be great to explore how that could change.”

The 9-county Ulster flag might be a contender for this. I wouldnt be surprised if it ends up they fly both the union flag and this one.

timesnap

Dubhlinner wrote: »

The 9-county Ulster flag might be a contender for this. I wouldnt be surprised if it ends up they fly both the union flag and this one.

Reads like a good compromise Dubhlinner,please tell me you are not Bertie?
If you are not he will claim your idea was stolen from him:)

usernamegoes

Annex A Constitutional Issues, of the Good Friday Agreement gives the People of Northern Ireland a irregular right, namely:

(vi) recognise the birthright of all the people of Northern Ireland to
identify themselves and be accepted as Irish or British, or both, as they
may so choose, and accordingly confirm that their right to hold both
British and Irish citizenship is accepted by both Governments and would
not be affected by any future change in the status of Northern Ireland.

So you can understand if there isn't a clear-cut definition of which flag is to fly.

Border-Rat

Nothing worse than a 'right-wing' blowhard who beats his chest over what a patriot he is - then vehemently supports partition. Typical centre-right trender.

Iwasfrozen

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

It's political correctness gone mad. Northern Ireland is British territory and is under no obligation to fly the foreign Republic of Ireland flag. Proponents will claim it's to represent the sizeable Nationalist minority in Northern Ireland. Following that logic, should we fly the Polish flag from all our government buildings? Or the Chinese or Nigerian flag?

The irish flag is not foreign to the north.

Border-Rat

The Polish and Chinese make up less than 5% in the Republic. In the North Nationalists are approaching a Demographic majority and have the mandate to prove it.

junder

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

It's political correctness gone mad. Northern Ireland is British territory and is under no obligation to fly the foreign Republic of Ireland flag. Proponents will claim it's to represent the sizeable Nationalist minority in Northern Ireland. Following that logic, should we fly the Polish flag from all our government buildings? Or the Chinese or Nigerian flag?

The irish flag is not foreign to the north.

It's the flag of a foreign state and has no legal status within the united kingdom of great Britain and northern Ireland

Nodin

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

flags fade into insignificance when compared to more important matters in the world. Does it make one iota of difference to the daily life of a Northern Irish citizen what colour flag is flying above their powerless devolved parliament? Of course not.

rather contradicts...

As a British territory the Union Jack is the default flag Stormont. No need to rip open old wounds by demanding a foreign flag be forced upon the populace of Ulster

antoobrien

junder wrote: »

It's the flag of a foreign state and has no legal status within the united kingdom of great Britain and northern Ireland

The tricolour is flown over Celtic Park (Parkhead) in Glasgow, no reason why it should not be flown on a building in Belfast.

freddiek

^^

presume you meant no reason the flag "should not be flown"

Iwasfrozen

junder wrote: »

It's the flag of a foreign state and has no legal status within the united kingdom of great Britain and northern Ireland

Yeah. That's what they're trying to change...

Hannibal

SMASH THE UNIONS wrote: »

@timesnap

I know what the Irish flag represents, thanks, and you're the only one mentioning the tired old 800 years spiel.

Like you said, flags fade into insignificance when compared to more important matters in the world. Does it make one iota of difference to the daily life of a Northern Irish citizen what colour flag is flying above their powerless devolved parliament? Of course not. So let sleeping dogs lie. As a British territory the Union Jack is the default flag Stormont. No need to rip open old wounds by demanding a foreign flag be forced upon the populace of Ulster.

First of all the Irish tricolour is not a foreign flag to the populace of Ulster. The counties of Donegal, Cavan and Monaghan are all in both Ulster and (the republic of) Ireland.

junder wrote: »

It's the flag of a foreign state and has no legal status within the united kingdom of great Britain and northern Ireland

While this is true junder, we all know you are a loyalist. Anybody born in northern Ireland has the right to class themselves as Irish or Britsh so it's not exactly as clear cut as simply calling it foreign.
The issue of flags on public building within northern Ireland is going to be resolved and I suspect it will be ultimately resolved by the flying of both flags or else neither flag. It's important to recognise the fact that a large percentage of people identify themselves primarily as Irish.

Border-Rat

Sinn Fein now own the North, South and West Belfast electorate. They own 4 out of the 6 Counties. Let them hang their petty butchers apron, they can't stop the inevitable and they know it. One of their biggest problems is they fear Dublin, most people in the South don't know that.

Hannibal

Border-Rat wrote: »

Sinn Fein now own the North, South and West Belfast electorate. They own 4 out of the 6 Counties. Let them hang their petty butchers apron, they can't stop the inevitable and they know it. One of their biggest problems is they fear Dublin, most people in the South don't know that.

They have always feared Dublin so it's nothing new. You can look back into the history of the Ulster covenant and how they feared being outnumber when Home rule was granted so they chose to corner off a piece of Ireland where they could be comfortable in the majority. What made this all the more funnier is that their leader of that time was a Dublin man in Edward Carson.

junder

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

junder wrote: »

It's the flag of a foreign state and has no legal status within the united kingdom of great Britain and northern Ireland

Yeah. That's what they're trying to change...

And should demographics change I have no doubt great joy will be taken in removing the union flag. Until that day the union flag will continue to fly over Stormont, on designated days of course which is roughly a dozen times a year

Dubhlinner

Border-Rat wrote: »

Sinn Fein now own the North, South and West Belfast electorate.

What you basing this on?

They "own" west Belfast sure. Have done so for the last few decades like.

South Belfast? Do they f*ck. SDLP MP. Out of the six MLAs only one of them is Sinn Fein. :rolleyes:

north Belfast? DUP MP and out of six MLAs two are Sinn Fein.

How in the name of god can either of those constituencies be considered "owned" by Sinn Fein?

SMASH THE UNIONS

Border-Rat wrote: »

Nothing worse than a 'right-wing' blowhard who beats his chest over what a patriot he is - then vehemently supports partition. Typical centre-right trender.

What are you talking about? So many false presumptions there. I don't claim to be a "patriot" as all forms of Nationalism are idiotic. Regarding partition, I accept that Northern Ireland is British because that's what the majority of the population wants. If they ever decide to unite with the Republic of Ireland or become an independent state, I'll accept that too.

antoobrien wrote: »

The tricolour is flown over Celtic Park (Parkhead) in Glasgow, no reason why it should not be flown on a building in Belfast.

Celtic Park is not a government building so they can fly whatever flag they want. I notice that some morons in west Belfast decided to fly the Palestinian flag from their windows. They are free to do so of course but it's kind of laughable that they want to tear down one "foreign" flag ("Brits out") and replace it with another.

Pat D. Almighty

As some people have already said, there is a big difference between new settlers wanting their national flag over government buildings and natives wanting a more representative flag flying beside that of the official flag.
Personally, I don't think the Irish tri-colour is suitable. The flag has too much negative baggage in the North.

If there was to be a 32 county republic, I'd like to see this as the flag!

Iwasfrozen

junder wrote: »

And should demographics change I have no doubt great joy will be taken in removing the union flag. Until that day the union flag will continue to fly over Stormont, on designated days of course which is roughly a dozen times a year

It's not an all or nothing zero sum game here. Both flags can fly simultaneously.

Richard

Pat D. Almighty wrote: »

As some people have already said, there is a big difference between new settlers wanting their national flag over government buildings and natives wanting a more representative flag flying beside that of the official flag.
Personally, I don't think the Irish tri-colour is suitable. The flag has too much negative baggage in the North.

If there was to be a 32 county republic, I'd like to see this as the flag!

That's the point. And in the event of a united Ireland, the tricolour would be consigned to history.

For the moment, they could stick the "four provinces" flag up with the Union Flag if they want, but personally, I'd prefer a new flag for NI. The Union Flag could maybe still be used in a few limited contexts (but not on Stormont or local councils) but let's have a new one which everyone in NI can "own".

Richard

Iwasfrozen wrote: »

It's not an all or nothing zero sum game here. Both flags can fly simultaneously.

But two flags would signify joint authority, which there isn't.

I would expect (or desire) the Union Flag to have ANY place in a United Ireland, so I wouldn't expect the Irish Tricolour to be used in NI now.

Let's have a new flag for NI.

blinding

Unionist outreach to nationalists/republicans/catholics does'nt even run flag deep ! ! !

KeithAFC

Naturally I am fully against flying the flag of the Irish Republic. If we must negotiate, then give them the Ulster nationalist flag (the yellow one).

KeithAFC

Dubhlinner wrote: »

What you basing this on?

They "own" west Belfast sure. Have done so for the last few decades like.

South Belfast? Do they f*ck. SDLP MP. Out of the six MLAs only one of them is Sinn Fein. :rolleyes:

north Belfast? DUP MP and out of six MLAs two are Sinn Fein.

How in the name of god can either of those constituencies be considered "owned" by Sinn Fein?

There has been a lot of myths posted in this thread so far in trying to support Sinn Fein on this motion. Nationalist majority, Sinn Fein rule South Belfast and so on. Just nonsense.

woodoo

junder wrote: »

And should demographics change I have no doubt great joy will be taken in removing the union flag. Until that day the union flag will continue to fly over Stormont, on designated days of course which is roughly a dozen times a year

You will probably find the much more reasonable and less bigoted nationalist community will be OK with both flags. One representing the nationalists. I'm not sure if the Tri Colour is appropriate though.

FloatingVoter

Its a flag. It is made of fabric and hangs off a pole. It doesn't walk, talk or have an opinion of its own other than it might like to flap about in the wind of an afternoon.

That goes for all flags.

Hannibal

Pat D. Almighty wrote: »

As some people have already said, there is a big difference between new settlers wanting their national flag over government buildings and natives wanting a more representative flag flying beside that of the official flag.
Personally, I don't think the Irish tri-colour is suitable. The flag has too much negative baggage in the North.

If there was to be a 32 county republic, I'd like to see this as the flag!

that's the flag of Leinster, what about the other three Provinces?

KeithAFC wrote: »

Naturally I am fully against flying the flag of the Irish Republic. If we must negotiate, then give them the Ulster nationalist flag (the yellow one).

There will be a negotiation that much is clear. I presume the Unionist politicians want the union flag flying on more than fifteen days a year aswell. So the dual solution could be to fly both on a regular basis.
The people of northern Ireland have a dual heritage that is nearly straight down the middle so the flying of both could be symbolic for the future as a sign of respect from both sides rather than shooting down one or the other while claiming supremacy doesn't really work as has been shown many times before.

woodoo

blinding wrote: »

Unionist outreach to nationalists/republicans/catholics does'nt even run flag deep ! ! !

Oppression of all things Irish runs deep up there. Its very difficult for them to psychologically lift the foot from the nationalist neck for some reason.

KeithAFC

woodoo wrote: »

You will probably find the much more reasonable and less bigoted nationalist community will be OK with both flags.

Why should the Tri colour go up? Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. The argument that a good portion of the populace might have an aspiration of joining the Irish Republic is not a good argument to put a flag which represents a Republic on a building which is in the United Kingdom which is not a republic?

If I was a Nationalist, I would find it insulting that my flag would be used as a political football.

woodoo

KeithAFC wrote: »

Why should the Tri colour go up? Northern Ireland is part of the United Kingdom. The argument that a good portion of the populace might have an aspiration of joining the Irish Republic is not a good argument to put a flag which represents a Republic on a building which is in the United Kingdom which is not a republic?

If I was a Nationalist, I would find it insulting that my flag would be used as a political football.

As i mentioned in the post above i'm not too sure about the tri colour. But a flog that the nationalists are happy with must be found.

KeithAFC

woodoo wrote: »

As i mentioned in the post above i'm not too sure about the tri colour. But a flog that the nationalists are happy with must be found.

What do you recommend then?

john reilly

is that you maggie?

steddyeddy

KeithAFC wrote: »

What do you recommend then?

Something to represent the Irish citizens maybe. The old pre nationalist Irish flag was the harp against a blue background. When nationalisim took off the color green was asociated with Ireland.

KeithAFC

steddyeddy wrote: »

Something to represent the Irish citizens maybe. The old pre nationalist Irish flag was the harp against a blue background. When nationalisim took off the color green was asociated with Ireland.

The harp flag seems good then. Perhaps that will do. I'll go with that.

junder

Dotsey wrote: »

Pat D. Almighty wrote: »

As some people have already said, there is a big difference between new settlers wanting their national flag over government buildings and natives wanting a more representative flag flying beside that of the official flag.
Personally, I don't think the Irish tri-colour is suitable. The flag has too much negative baggage in the North.

If there was to be a 32 county republic, I'd like to see this as the flag!

that's the flag of Leinster, what about the other three Provinces?

KeithAFC wrote: »

Naturally I am fully against flying the flag of the Irish Republic. If we must negotiate, then give them the Ulster nationalist flag (the yellow one).

There will be a negotiation that much is clear. I presume the Unionist politicians want the union flag flying on more than fifteen days a year aswell. So the dual solution could be to fly both on a regular basis.
The people of northern Ireland have a dual heritage that is nearly straight down the middle so the flying of both could be symbolic for the future as a sign of respect from both sides rather than shooting down one or the other while claiming supremacy doesn't really work as has been shown many times before.

So you will be ask for the union flag to
Be flown at linster house to symbolize this joint heritage your talking about?

woodoo

KeithAFC wrote: »

What do you recommend then?

I don't know i have not given it much thought. My gut feeling is that the tri colour would be inappropriate.

KeithAFC

junder wrote: »

So you will be ask for the union flag to
Be flown at linster house to symbolize this joint heritage your talking about?

Good point junder. I will perhaps even E mail the Oireachtas and recommend this.

Jimoslimos

Stormont is the seat of government for NI, not the UK. Decisions made there have no bearing on any other part of the Union.

Westminister is the proper place for the Union flag, devolved governments should fly their own flag.

No flag or an agreed flag makes more sense.

woodoo

KeithAFC wrote: »

Good point junder. I will perhaps even E mail the Oireachtas and recommend this.

Not the union jack, but if the people of British heritage wanted a flag of some sort i'm sure something fair could be found. Is there an appetite for it though?

steddyeddy

KeithAFC wrote: »

The harp flag seems good then. Perhaps that will do. I'll go with that.

The beauty of comprimise!