M7 - Naas/Newbridge Bypass Upgrade [Junction 9a now open]

AugustusMinimus

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I still don't think widening the M7 is the answer as the only real issue is between Naas and the M9 and then mostly because people dawdle unnecessarily and/or sit in the right lane in a slow moving convoy and then leave it till the last minute to get over to the M9 exit. After that point things are generally fine.

it does strike me as mad that we have only this one motorway out of Dublin for so many primary destinations. Maybe if they did something with the N81 for example and improved north-south links before the M50 there'd be no need to shove everything onto this single stretch of road. EG: If I was coming up from Kildare town or Carlow say and going to Sandyford then would it not be better for me to easily/quickly get across to the N81/M11 somehow instead?

The M9 should have followed the N81 into Dublin IMO.

3 national routes covering all of Waterford to Limerick being funneled into a single road going into Dublin was a crazy decision.

smncnnr

But isn't a large proportion of the traffic travelling much shorter distances i.e. not from/to Limerick/Cork/Waterford etc?

AugustusMinimus

smncnnr wrote: »

But isn't a large proportion of the traffic travelling much shorter distances i.e. not from/to Limerick/Cork/Waterford etc?

A lot of it is. But 3 major roads merging into one isn't good design.

AugustusMinimus

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

A lot of it is. But 3 major roads merging into one isn't good design.

Yes and something made worse by the fact that the trunk is insufficiently wide enough to take the load of the branches.

Sam Russell

Maybe improving the N81 might improve matters. Making it a DC and connecting to the M9 at Kilcullen might ease the situation.

AugustusMinimus

Sam Russell wrote: »

Maybe improving the N81 might improve matters. Making it a DC and connecting to the M9 at Kilcullen might ease the situation.

Probably too late for this.

An easier solution would be a new DC from the M50 out with its first junction at the M7M9 split. Give this DC no access to Naas or Newbridge.

Let all Bass and Newbridge traffic go by the Naas DC.

I doubt this would be acceptable though.

marmurr1916

AugustusMinimus wrote: »

The M9 should have followed the N81 into Dublin IMO.

3 national routes covering all of Waterford to Limerick being funneled into a single road going into Dublin was a crazy decision.

Three national routes merging into one road isn't the only problem. The poor planning decisions, sometimes taken on foot of corruption, by county councillors and planning officials allowing the building of low-density suburban sprawl across western county Dublin, and lax planning of outlying towns from in North Kildare and parts of Co. Laois, means that there are thousands of more commuters using the road than would be necessary in a country with a better planning system.

Then there's the fact that there's no bypass of the M50, so lots of traffic from a huge swathe of the country, from Ennis and southern parts of Co. Clare all the way across to the Waterford/Wexford borders, use this road to access the M50 and thus routes to anywhere from Cavan to north Donegal to north Co. Antrim and points between.

Basically you've got lots of Munster traffic, plus lots of southern midlands and south Leinster traffic, converging onto one road to get to the M50 and then get onto the M1, N2 or N3 to head north.

And obviously you've got traffic using the road in the opposite direction when heading from north to south.

The only way to overcome this is to improve north-south connections that don't go anywhere near the M50.

That's why I'd like to see the entire Atlantic Corridor, from Cork to Derry, upgraded to motorway/dual-carriageway, along with an extension of the M9 (not necessarily numbered as M9) northwards from Naas, then curving around to the east, to act as a super bypass of Dublin, connecting the M7, M8 and M9 to the N3, N2 and M1 while avoiding the M50.

The second route should be built as a toll-free motorway - it would allow long-distance traffic to avoid the M50 and provide much better road connections between different regions on the island.

A central motorway, branching off the M7 south of Roscrea (this would also require a full interchange allowing all movements at the junction of the M8/M7), heading northwards towards Athlone, then heading north-east towards Monaghan town (roughly following the lines of the N62, N55 and N54), could also be built instead of the northern extension to the M9, and it would take a huge amount of traffic away from the two coastal corridors that connect the southern parts of the island with the northern parts.

guylikeme

I like your idea but the fact remains that most of that n7 traffic is going to Dublin or very close to it. Losing 20% of it to these new roads would still leave a large part of the problem. Rail and bus need to be pushed hard. Navan railway, interconnector and even high rise in the city the only game in town.

hognef

guylikeme wrote: »

I like your idea but the fact remains that most of that n7 traffic is going to Dublin or very close to it. Losing 20% of it to these new roads would still leave a large part of the problem. Rail and bus need to be pushed hard. Navan railway, interconnector and even high rise in the city the only game in town.

I think a 20% reduction in volume would have a much bigger impact than you realise. But, yes, improved public transport and higher density living would actually make a lasting difference.

marmurr1916

guylikeme wrote: »

I like your idea but the fact remains that most of that n7 traffic is going to Dublin or very close to it. Losing 20% of it to these new roads would still leave a large part of the problem. Rail and bus need to be pushed hard. Navan railway, interconnector and even high rise in the city the only game in town.

Taking 20%, maybe more as time goes by, of traffic off the Naas to Dublin route would make a huge difference.

I don't know what difference a Navan railway would make to commuters on the Dublin - Kildare - Portlaoise corridor.

The main public transport initiatives on that corridor should be higher train frequencies and better journey times for trains, along with proper feeder buses in towns so that commuters can get to the train stations without driving.

A limited stop bus service with proper bus lanes (maybe one of those guided bus lane (?) set ups) at least as far as the Luas near the Red Cow would also be handy, or preferably in as far as Hueston, with easy transfer to the Luas into town from there.

Building a load of houses for car dependent commuters along this corridor was bloody short-sighted and is the main cause of congestion rather than the merging of three national primary routes into one road.

If there was a significant reduction in commuter car traffic, the road would be able to cope without much serious congestion.

It's too late now to reverse all the poor planning decisions taken around Naas, Newbridge, Kildare etc but providing better employment and other opportunities in or near those towns ((e.g. an IT in Newbridge, maybe a campus of UCC or DCU - has this been done or is it planned?) would reduce the amount of commuters heading into Dublin or its suburbs if people can go to college locally and work locally. A local third-level campus wouldn't just be handy for college students, it would attract employers and provide local employment, and it would help to reduce pressure on rents in Dublin if the surrounding towns became more developed in terms of job opportunities and college places.

gilly0512

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I still don't think widening the M7 is the answer as the only real issue is between Naas and the M9 and then mostly because people dawdle unnecessarily and/or sit in the right lane in a slow moving convoy and then leave it till the last minute to get over to the M9 exit. After that point things are generally fine.

it does strike me as mad that we have only this one motorway out of Dublin for so many primary destinations. Maybe if they did something with the N81 for example and improved north-south links before the M50 there'd be no need to shove everything onto this single stretch of road. EG: If I was coming up from Kildare town or Carlow say and going to Sandyford then would it not be better for me to easily/quickly get across to the N81/M11 somehow instead?

I'm actually starting to agree that widening the M7 to three lanes is not going to have the affect that we all hoped it might. Yes it will make a big difference to traffic leaving Dublin in the evening, as you should no longer have regular tailbacks from Kill/Johnstown to Junction 11. For those of us driving to Dublin in the morning it will probably remove the slowing down of traffic between the M9 and Naas North, however as we are now seeing traffic backing up every morning from the M50 to Junction 3 (Citywest), this is only going to get worse. I would hazard a guess that by the time widening of the M7 is complete, you could conceivably have regular morning tailbacks from the M50 to as far back as Junction 5, unless an outer ring road is built?

_Kaiser_

gilly2308 wrote: »

I'm actually starting to agree that widening the M7 to three lanes is not going to have the affect that we all hoped it might. Yes it will make a big difference to traffic leaving Dublin in the evening, as you should no longer have regular tailbacks from Kill/Johnstown to Junction 11. For those of us driving to Dublin in the morning it will probably remove the slowing down of traffic between the M9 and Naas North, however as we are now seeing traffic backing up every morning from the M50 to Junction 3 (Citywest), this is only going to get worse. I would hazard a guess that by the time widening of the M7 is complete, you could conceivably have regular morning tailbacks from the M50 to as far back as Junction 5, unless an outer ring road is built?

In my experience the main issue is most Irish drivers can't drive! This morning for example between Naas South (exit 10) and North (exit 9) the traffic dropped to 70 km/h in a 120. This was at 7am I might add. No accidents, not bumper to bumper, no camera van.. just idiots who can't keep up with the flow of traffic or are holding everything up because they can't drive at a steady 120 when there's no reason not to.

Then when it widens to 3 lanes they drop to between 80-90, again for no real reason. This then is made worse by drivers in the lanes around them cutting into unnecessary gaps they're leaving, which causes our hesitant friends to immediately press on the brakes, slowing things even more.

If you aren't capable of driving at the limit when it's safe/appropriate to do so, or you're being passed by trucks and multiple cars then you shouldn't be on the road IMO, yet until this sort of behaviour is addressed it doesn't matter how many lanes there are.

AugustusMinimus

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

In my experience the main issue is most Irish drivers can't drive! This morning for example between Naas South (exit 10) and North (exit 9) the traffic dropped to 70 km/h in a 120. This was at 7am I might add. No accidents, not bumper to bumper, no camera van.. just idiots who can't keep up with the flow of traffic or are holding everything up because they can't drive at a steady 120 when there's no reason not to.

Then when it widens to 3 lanes they drop to between 80-90, again for no real reason. This then is made worse by drivers in the lanes around them cutting into unnecessary gaps they're leaving, which causes our hesitant friends to immediately press on the brakes, slowing things even more.

If you aren't capable of driving at the limit when it's safe/appropriate to do so, or you're being passed by trucks and multiple cars then you shouldn't be on the road IMO, yet until this sort of behaviour is addressed it doesn't matter how many lanes there are.

A huge amount of traffic is caused by poor driving. Speed is just about the only aspect of driving which is enforced in this country sadly.

Pablod

Just seen this on KFM news- includes works on between Newlands and Naas

http://www.kfmradio.com/news/22122015-1544/%E2%82%AC43m-n7-grades

Chris_5339762

Ten-T thing that seems to be doing the rounds.

"M7 - Newlands Cross to Naas Upgrade (TEN-T) €300,000"

I'd really like to know whats going to be planned here. I know its M50 - Naas motorway upgrade of the current N7, but thats a massive job. Let it happen though if Europe are going to pay for it!

gilly0512

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

Ten-T thing that seems to be doing the rounds.

"M7 - Newlands Cross to Naas Upgrade (TEN-T) €300,000"

I'd really like to know whats going to be planned here. I know its M50 - Naas motorway upgrade of the current N7, but thats a massive job. Let it happen though if Europe are going to pay for it!

Not sure what purpose it would serve, it's already six lanes, and it's far more important that the widening between Junctions 9 and 11 takes place as a matter of great urgency.

guylikeme

gilly2308 wrote: »

Not sure what purpose it would serve, it's already six lanes, and it's far more important that the widening between Junctions 9 and 11 takes place as a matter of great urgency.

Removes Tractors, pedestrians and other slow things from the road (legally anyway) thus making it safer. 300K sounds like value for a road project (albeit likely just some signage and barriers at the petrol stations on the road).

JupiterKid

Personally, I think that the money could be better spent elsewhere. Also, €300K seems like a paltry sum to remove all the private accesses from the DC.

Widening the M7 from Maudlins to the M9 junction should be the priority.

marno21

JupiterKid wrote: »

Personally, I think that the money could be better spent elsewhere. Also, €300K seems like a paltry sum to remove all the private accesses from the DC.

Widening the M7 from Maudlins to the M9 junction should be the priority.

€300k is for engineering consultancy services and whatever else is needed in 2016

Widening of M7 from Maudlins to M9 is going ahead regardless

Schadenfreudia

JupiterKid wrote: »

Personally, I think that the money could be better spent elsewhere. Also, €300K seems like a paltry sum to remove all the private accesses from the DC.

Widening the M7 from Maudlins to the M9 junction should be the priority.

If the upgrading of the Naas Road can be done for 300k(!) then just do it !

No discussion/debate needed :cool:

L1011

Schadenfreudia wrote: »

If the upgrading of the Naas Road can be done for 300k(!) then just do it !

No discussion/debate needed :cool:

300k is the first batch of consultancy, nothing more.

Actual upgrade will require CPOs, new accesses to houses, local access roads alongside, possibly some access bridges for same, etc. Won't be cheap by any means but will probably be cheaper than the clearly destroyed plan for an M7 from Maudlins to "J8" of the M50 - the land bank is now mostly built on.

Schadenfreudia

L1011 wrote: »

300k is the first batch of consultancy, nothing more.

Actual upgrade will require CPOs, new accesses to houses, local access roads alongside, possibly some access bridges for same, etc. Won't be cheap by any means but will probably be cheaper than the clearly destroyed plan for an M7 from Maudlins to "J8" of the M50 - the land bank is now mostly built on.

Well, you know what they say....if it sounds too good to be true it almost certainly isn't true!

Schadenfreudia

L1011 wrote: »

the land bank is now mostly built on.

Ordinarily one would get annoyed by the short-sighted building on the routes of transport corridors; but sometimes it forces better solutions.

The Luas Green Line (old Harcourt Street route blocked by housing in Foxrock) resulted in a more expensive but vastly superior alignment.

Not sure if that applies to the M50 - Naas link...

D Trent

L1011 wrote: »

300k is the first batch of consultancy, nothing more.

M7 from Maudlins to "J8" of the M50 - the land bank is now mostly built on.

What about tunnelling ?
With a new m50 J8

L1011

D Trent wrote: »

What about tunnelling ?
With a new m50 J8

Unviable price wise. Outer Orbital, the n81 DC to Blessington and a tallaght bypass upgrade will all help reduce the load on the n7 as well as serving their own purposes and probably cost similar in total

D.L.R.

L1011 wrote: »

300k is the first batch of consultancy, nothing more.

Actual upgrade will require CPOs, new accesses to houses, local access roads alongside, possibly some access bridges for same, etc. Won't be cheap by any means but will probably be cheaper than the clearly destroyed plan for an M7 from Maudlins to "J8" of the M50 - the land bank is now mostly built on.

I'd argue the bigger issue now isn't Red Cow-Naas, but City Centre-Red Cow.

The N7 has the worst city centre access route of any of the major Dublin approaches, and its among the busiest. Really mindless planning.

L1011

D.L.R. wrote: »

I'd argue the bigger issue now isn't Red Cow-Naas, but City Centre-Red Cow.

The N7 has the worst city centre access route of any of the major Dublin approaches, and its among the busiest. Really mindless planning.

That's why its been signed to use the M50 and N4 instead outbound for years... not sure why its not similarly signed inbound.

guylikeme

L1011 wrote: »

That's why its been signed to use the M50 and N4 instead outbound for years... not sure why its not similarly signed inbound.

Possibly to half the load of traffic on both directions? N4 still has ballyfermot and palmerstown lights to deal with.

Chris_5339762

guylikeme wrote: »

Possibly to half the load of traffic on both directions? N4 still has ballyfermot and palmerstown lights to deal with.

If theres one bridge inside the M50 that should be built (on the main arteries) its this one.

To have GSJ pretty much all the way to SCR/Kilmainham and Heuston would be great. And more importantly, grade seperation from there OUT. Its a shame the Chapelizod bypass gets so close to the city center but then has to stop at Palmerstown.

guylikeme

Seems to be policy now though. If its an r road it is not going to get upgraded.