Overeem fails pre fight drug test

Mr. Manager

rounders123 wrote: »

Like your username:)

You've outdone yourself this time. Well done

Leeg17 wrote: »

It's a badass name indeed!

As much as I was looking forward to the Overeem vs. JDS fight and as annoyed I'll be that it's not going ahead, the important bit is that we were scheduled to see JDS vs. Overeem not JDS vs. Overeem + Testosterone..

Fight should never go ahead now imo.

Same over here, was a bit gutted to hear that it wasn't going ahead. Even more gutted when you realise that there is not many people who can take a shot at JDS considering the match ups that have already been confirmed.

Henderson taking one last run at the title would be cool. He claims he has 3 fights left in him but I think (if he gets the fight) win or lose, he'll retire.

p to the e

Apparently they're still going ahead with the licence application and Mir vs. Velasquez is still on.

UFC files license application for UFC 146's Alistair Overeem, NSAC reviews April 24
by Steven Marrocco on Apr 09, 2012 at 1:50 pm ET

The UFC has not given up on Alistair Overeem.

On Friday afternoon, UFC officials filed a license application on the heavyweight contender's behalf for a bout with Junior Dos Santos at UFC 146, Nevada State Athletic Commission Executive Director Keith Kizer told MMAjunkie.com (www.mmajunkie.com).

Overeem has not contacted the commission since he failed a pre-fight drug test for the pay-per-view event, which takes place May 26 at MGM Grand Garden Arena in Las Vegas.

Additionally, Overeem has not requested the "B" sample of the test that flagged him for elevated levels of testosterone. He is expected to be present at an NSAC meeting in Las Vegas on April 24, when the NSAC will review his application. theflyingkneemma.com initially reported the license application.

Because Overeem is not currently licensed, he does not face an immediate suspension and/or fine. However, the NSAC could deny his license or sanction him in other ways.

"When you apply for a license, anything and everything can be brought up," Kizer said.

Prior to the application, NSAC chairman Raymond "Skip" Avansino Jr. asked Overeem to appear before the commission at the meeting, likely to answer for the failed drug test that served as part of a conditional license granted to fight Brock Lesnar at UFC 141.

After missing a pre-fight drug test for that December event, Overeem's appearance was contingent on undergoing additional drug testing. During an NSAC hearing in December, he said he had missed the test while flying to Holland to care for his ailing mother. Concerns over the missed drug test and efforts to get him tested in his native country led the commission to issue a conditional license in which he was required to submit to two pre-fight tests, a fight-night test, and two random tests within six months of the fight. The license expired on Dec. 31.

The UFC 146 pre-fight test, which was conducted after a UFC 146 press conference on March 27, served as one of Overeem's two random tests. This past week, his "A" sample was flagged for a testosterone-to-epitestosterone (T/E) ratio of 14:1, well over the NSAC's 6:1 limit. The former Strikeforce champion was among six top-billed fighters who were tested for the all-heavyweight PPV card. All other fighters tested clean for performance-enhancing drugs and drugs of abuse.

Overeem could ask that his "B" sample – a second portion of urine taken from the UFC 146 test – be tested by the lab that found the result or by a separate accredited facility. He has yet to do so.

Overeem had never tested positive for banned substances before this past week's result. He has yet to comment on his failed test.

Over the weekend, UFC president Dana White said a co-main event fight between former champ Frank Mir and Cain Velasquez will go on as planned, ending, for now, speculation that Mir would be installed as Overeem's replacement to fight current champ Dos Santos.

Mellor

armitage_skanks wrote: »

When fighters are cutting down to a limit, they're usually right on the button or at most 1lb under. It doesnt make any sense to go 2kg (4.5lbs) under the limit, that's unnecessary dehydration. I would say 98kg was his walk-around weight at the time.

Well they didn't give decimals so he might of been 98.8kg for example. Also, cutting isn't an exact science. If he was used to cutting to 205 he could if easily over shot it by a little with water loading alone. I just don't see how he walk around at 216 after being 224-228 previously

Mellor

Dean09 wrote: »

Can TRT really produce levels of 14:1 like Overeem had??
.

It's a ratio not a level. So the 2 aren't comparable. Say Overeem has normal levels of test and epitest, he need a huge amount of external test to create a 14:1 ratio.
Somebody needing TRT will have low epitest as well as test, so a "normal" amount of test could still create the same ratio. But they would get a massive anabolic boost, they just be normal. When you have a TRT exemption, they check that your Total level is in range and don't worry about your T/E ratio (eg Nate Marquart situation)

Mellor

Dean09 wrote: »

Can TRT really produce levels of 14:1 like Overeem had??
.

It's a ratio not a level. So the 2 aren't comparable. Say Overeem has normal levels of test and epitest, he need a huge amount of external test to create a 14:1 ratio.
Somebody needing TRT will have low epitest as well as test, so a "normal" amount of test could still create the same ratio. But they wouldn't get a massive anabolic boost, they just be normal. When you have a TRT exemption, they check that your Total level is in range and don't worry about your T/E ratio (eg Nate Marquart situation)

Niall0

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/4/10/2939051/ufc-146-the-alistair-overeem-defense

By now everyone knows that Overeem’s results from the surprise test on March 27 came back that he had a T/E level of 14:1. At this point it appeared that the much anticipated title fight with Junior Dos Santos at UFC 146 was off. Then, to many peoples surprise, the UFC and Overeem submitted for a unarmed combatant license in Nevada.
The step of applying for a license shows that Overeem is confident in his defense. If his license is denied, he is unable to receive a license for a one year and most athletic commissions honor the decisions of other states. This is a huge risk for Overeem so what could his defense be? When Overeem appears before the NSAC on April 24th the surprise test results are sure to be brought up. The question is what will UFC and Overeem’s response be?


I suspect that his defense will be that the he should not have been tested and that the results should be considered tainted evidence.
Alistair Overeem’s license to fight Brock Lesnar in Las Vegas on December 20, 2011 at UFC 141 was a conditional license. One stipulation of the conditional license was that Overeem pass two post-fight drug tests less than six months after the bout. According to Mike Chiappetta on the MMA Hour, referencing a conversation with the NSAC’s Keith Kizer, Alistair has passed three urine tests and one blood test going into and coming out of the UFC 141.
So, has the terms of his conditional license been satisfied? If so, Overeem, no longer licensed by the NSAC and not yet an applicant for a license, the argument could be made that he should not have been subjected to testing.
One specific rule in question appears to be point #5 under NAC 467.850 (http://www.leg.state.nv.us/nac/NAC-467.html):

5. An unarmed combatant shall submit to a urinalysis or chemical test if the Commission or a representative of the Commission directs him or her to do so.

Does this rule apply to a non-licensed unarmed combatant? Rule #6 in the same chapter makes reference only to licensees:

6. A licensee who violates any provision of this section is subject to disciplinary action by the Commission. In addition to any other disciplinary action by the Commission, if an unarmed combatant who won or drew a contest or exhibition is found to have violated the provisions of this section, the Commission may, in its sole discretion, change the result of that contest or exhibition to a no decision.

When the test results of Overeem’s T/E level being 14:1 are brought up I believe that Overeem and his team’s response will be that of evidence being illegally obtained. In a court of law, if evidence is illegally obtained it will be considered tainted evidence and is not admissible.
Now that Overeem has submitted an application for a license, the NSAC can test him again and I am sure they will. I am also sure that this time he will come back clean.
Would this defense be enough for the NSAC to give him a license? I really don’t know if it will stand.

El Guapo!

Niall0 wrote: »

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/4/10/2939051/ufc-146-the-alistair-overeem-defense

That's a BS rule and if he gets around it by that technicality then it'll be a total farce.

Mellor

Dean09 wrote: »

That's a BS rule and if he gets around it by that technicality then it'll be a total farce.

What's a BS rule?

The only rules quoted there are that fighters have to submitt a urine sample if asked and a result is changed if tainted by a positive test.
Everything else is speculation of what his defence might be, and it means nothing

El Guapo!

Mellor wrote: »

Dean09 wrote: »

That's a BS rule and if he gets around it by that technicality then it'll be a total farce.

What's a BS rule?

The only rules quoted there are that fighters have to submitt a urine sample if asked and a result is changed if tainted by a positive test.
Everything else is speculation of what his defence might be, and it means nothing

I was referring to the sample possibly being ruled as an illegally obtained sample and therefore cannot be used as evidence.
Of course it's all speculation at the minute but if that is able to be used as a kind of loop hole then it's a farce.

Niall0

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/4/11/2940886/ufc-146-can-alistair-overeem-still-get-licensed

An application for a TUE need only be submitted to the NSAC early enough for the commission to have a reasonable period of time to evaluate the request. A prudent fighter would probably submit all the appropriate paperwork and medicals a few weeks before the fight, but even the most diligent would be highly unlikely to provide the info two months before.
Accordingly, a fighter could fail the out of competition test because he had not already applied for or been granted a TUE, but appeal such failure on the basis that he had a medical reason to be on the drug in question (in this case testosterone) and that he had not applied for the TUE because the commission's own guidelines do not mandate that the application had to be submitted at the present time. Further, I expect that Team Overeem will show up in Nevada on the 24th with medical records, doctor verification and further testing in hand. What kind of testing?
Blood testosterone level testing.
T/E ratio only shows that synthetic testosterone has been used, thereby upsetting the naturally occurring 1:1 balance that is normal for most. But it doesn't tell you how much ACTUAL testosterone is coursing through the athlete's bloodstream -- only that all the testosterone in their blood wasn't provided by Mom and Dad but was increased through unnatural methods.
Overeem could argue, unlike Nate Marquardt's situation at UFC on Versus, that the actual amount of testosterone in his system as shown by a blood test is well within normal limits and therefore not performance enhancing at all. The closer the dates of those blood tests are to the date of his T/E Ratio failure (March 27) the more appealing the argument is from a public relations standpoint.
For example, the Reem might walk in on the 24th and say "I was prescribed testosterone by my doctor when he discovered that I had low testosterone and we were sure to keep track of my levels and keep them in normal ranges. I fully intended to disclose my usage to the commission when I applied for my license and submitted an application for a Therapeutic Use Exemption, all of which I am prepared to discuss today."

This sounds kinda plausible if Overeem shows a bloodtest with a testosterone level within normal ranges i guess everything would be alright? Its more than likely that TRT will be something to do with his defence i guess.

El Guapo!

Niall0 wrote: »

http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/4/11/2940886/ufc-146-can-alistair-overeem-still-get-licensed

This sounds kinda plausible if Overeem shows a bloodtest with a testosterone level within normal ranges i guess everything would be alright? Its more than likely that TRT will be something to do with his defence i guess.

You're right, that does sound kind of plausible. And if that genuinely is the case then I suppose nobody can argue. But then it's also possible for a fighter to cheat the system and "trick" his doctor into believing he needs trt.
There's an interesting article here that came out last year surrounding the whole Nate Marquardt situation. It's kind of long so I won't quote it.

The whole TRT situation just gets to me. It seems to be the new loop-hole that fighters have discovered and are taking advantage of.

MrStuffins

Dean09 wrote: »

The whole TRT situation just gets to me. It seems to be the new loop-hole that fighters have discovered and are taking advantage of.

This!

It's actually kinda infuriating how much this excuse is being used and the authorities say "well ok, that's grand".

It's kinda how every idiot is now "dyslexic" or how every little brat is has "ADHD". I'd say genuine cases are in the minority!

armitage_skanks

"I just realised that I am testosterone deficient and started TRT last week under doctor supervision, I was just about to put the paperwork though. Yeah my T levels have been dangerously low from years of cutting even though im a ripped 260lb wrecking machine who was at my heaviest last fight. Sorry about the mix-up guys"

I will be shocked if he can get away on a technicality. He will be making fools of the NSAC and their testing process.

threeball

Wonder how JDS feels about the UFC lodging a licence application for Overeem and how he'd feel about getting in the ring with someone he knows is "juicing". Couldn't be an easy thing for a fighter to deal with mentally.

MrStuffins

threeball wrote: »

Wonder how JDS feels about the UFC lodging a licence application for Overeem and how he'd feel about getting in the ring with someone he knows is "juicing". Couldn't be an easy thing for a fighter to deal with mentally.

A quote from him here

“I am a fighter and will be there to fight, but it is sure to be a disrespect to MMA and how serious is this sport. This will also be unfair, it will be unfair to me. I’ve never used these devices to gain strength. I think the right would do blood tests on fighters as is done in the Olympics, not the urine, since the blood is easier to detect these illegal substances. We want to know who the best really. No use to be the best liar. Being a world champion making false use of a lot of drugs, that’s not being champion. I can clearly say that I am the champion without ever having the use of any illegal artifice in order to get there. I favor more rigorous tests to assess whether someone is doped. It has to be a clean sport and these tests should occur more surprises. If Overeem is more aggressive and stronger the more he will resist blows and it will be difficult for me. If I lose will be unfair. He will not have fought better than I have fought doped.”

Source: BJPenn.com

Kev M

Im going to go out on a limb here and say that JDS may have always just had a sneaking little suspicion that overeem was no stranger to pins. I'd also say hes fought plenty of guys on more than protein shakes over the years, and of course knows it. He's just saying what he's supposed to now.

Mellor

Dean09 wrote: »

I was referring to the sample possibly being ruled as an illegally obtained sample and therefore cannot be used as evidence.
Of course it's all speculation at the minute but if that is able to be used as a kind of loop hole then it's a farce.

It wasn't illegally obtained, it was requested and he gave a sample*. He's not on trial in a court of law.
He wasn't a licensed fighter at the time. So they can't fine him, he didn't break any rules. But, he used PEDs out of competition. So on that basis they can refuse him a license. They are under no obligation to grant a license, regardless of the test result. Weather or not they should of requested a test is a different matter. The fact is he gave a sample. And is no applying for a license.

In actualy fact he could of dodged the blood test and gotten away with it as he was under no obligation to the NSAC. This assumes that he had already had the two post fights tests as a condition on his Lesnar fight license (its reported that he did)

Niall0 wrote: »

This sounds kinda plausible if Overeem shows a bloodtest with a testosterone level within normal ranges i guess everything would be alright? Its more than likely that TRT will be something to do with his defence i guess.

There has to be no chance of that happening really. Even if he has dropped back to that level now. They have his B sample from the same time as the 14:1 ratio result. They can test that for total levels and if its off the chart that arguement falls apart.

The only way this fight goes ahead is if Overeem did nothing wrong*, such as not yet having a chance to disclose TRT.

*If he now actualy needs TRT, its due to steroids, but never being caught at the time he can't be punished.

threeball wrote: »

Wonder how JDS feels about the UFC lodging a licence application for Overeem and how he'd feel about getting in the ring with someone he knows is "juicing". Couldn't be an easy thing for a fighter to deal with mentally.

If he is goign to defend the charges, he has to go through the motions. one of which is applying for a license as part of the UFC 146 card.

insanity50

It's a well known secret now that Overeem is using the TRT defence.

Look at agenda number five on next week's NSAC commission meeting.

http://t.co/FYi0LkWz

The other rumour I heard is that when you give a drug sample, you have to fill out a form saying what medication you are on.

Apparently Overeem would have filled out that form and stated on it that he was undergoing TRT.

The Overeem camp is confident about him being licensed.

I don't care what he's taking, I just want to see the fight.

Mellor

insanity50 wrote: »

The other rumour I heard is that when you give a drug sample, you have to fill out a form saying what medication you are on.

Yeah that standard procedure as part of a pre/post fight test.
Two example I can think of;

After the Silva fight, Chael openly told them he was taking medication for his condition. He was in bother for not getting permission before hand.

In Diaz's reply to the AC he said he uses marijuana for medical reasons. They replied, in that case he should of declared it in the correct box at the test. His counter point at the hearing will most likely be that although it's under a medical recomendation, it's not actually a prescription as its still illegal under federal law.

alanrebelsw

Hope jds takes him to school,and silva to ko sonnen

reganreggie

http://sibatmedia.wordpress.com/2012/04/10/ufc-star-alistair-overeem-responds-to-doping-charges/

Just Seen this, must better bull**** right?

El Guapo!

reganreggie wrote: »

http://sibatmedia.wordpress.com/2012/04/10/ufc-star-alistair-overeem-responds-to-doping-charges/

Just Seen this, must better bull**** right?

From that article:

My elevated testosterone levels are not the result of any cheating or illegal activities. I had no unfair advantages during my fights.
I am, quite simply, a better human being.

^^^
THAT'S his defense???
Seriously??

I'm lost for words.

That has to be a písstake. There's no way all that bullshít came out of his mouth.

MrStuffins

Any reliable sources on this? HIs reading habits are "an obsession with Stephanie Mayer"? Get the boat!

Mellor

As I stepped off the plane in Beijing in early 2003, I was greeted by Vice Chairman of China’s Central Military Commission Xi Jinping and General Guo Boxiong, who escorted me to our meeting with the newly elected President Hu Jintao

come on lads, how did any think it was legit..

Be like Nutella

Just in case anyone hasn't ever seen Chuck v Overeem (Pride Grand Prix 2003 with Dana on the commentary team with Bas)

http://www.mmatko.com/chuck-liddell-vs-alistair-overeem-fight-video-pride-grand-prix-2003/

JoeyJJ

Remember that fight, Overroid got caught simular in the 2nd Nog fight too, which was a very good fight too.

http://www.mmatko.com/antonio-rogerio-nogueira-vs-alistair-overeem-fight-video-pride-critical-countdown-absolute/

insanity50

Lads can you imagine how big Overeem would be if he didn't have low testosterone?!!

Spideog Rua

I'm just glad Overeem is getting the treatment he needs for his medical condition.

TomLamp

Poor Brock Lesnar, cheated out of a title shot. Thats the real fact that people are overlooking.

DrPhilG

TomLamp wrote: »

Poor Brock Lesnar, cheated out of a title shot. Thats the real fact that people are overlooking.

There is actually a case to be made for overturning that result to a NC. The random test that caught Reem was a condition of his license for the Lesnar fight after he was late testing. So in theory he voided the conditions of that license and the result should be overturned. I think the SAC have already said that it's unlikely though. Only difference it makes would be Brocks career stats being 5-2-1 instead of 5-3!