So I have an Electric car on test..

Oafley Jones

Mellio wrote: »

Fair enough but what happens after 3 years and the battery then becomes your responsiblity.

You have to go to main dealer for maintenance or repairs as there will be very few if any independant garages being abale to service/repair these and we all know what the costs are like for servicing by main dealers.

and as already mentioned whats the additinoal cost for going over 10,000km, I work and drive locally and still do more than 10,000km so another expense.


I have just read that they are also offering different types of packages such as a Maintenance package, breakdown package so again more expense.

I believe its a black hole as to how much the overall costs will be and then again what the resale values will be. Main Dealers will have you over a barrell in terms of what they are willing to offer you.

Didn't relise that the battery became the owner's after three years. If so, I don't understand why that pricing structure, it's as if they looked at mobile phone contracts and thought why not bastardize that. What is the explanation for 10,000KM allowance? How small is the boot, I take it that's where they've placed the cells.

And sign of the Zoe Bodhan? I'd have been half tempted by it if it wasn't for what I perceive to be the running cost (rental + charging cost / mileage). Although, I should probably account for it in the same way I'd think of tax as I'd be paying it even If I was abroad for a month.

shanec1928

so once you but the car. you still have to rent a battery from Renault? does it not come with a battery or can you by whatever battery is needed for it outright?

Nissan doctor

forza rovers wrote: »

so once you but the car. you still have to rent a battery from Renault? does it not come with a battery or can you by whatever battery is needed for it outright?

You wouldn't be saying that if you knew how much the batteries are....

naturalblue

gerrycollins wrote: »

simply can you cut throught the stuff they tell us about the car and give us the practical version of each statement ie charging times, handling and distance and what about emergancy recharge should you need it? ie can you plug it into a normal 3 pin socket?

http://selfficiency.wordpress.com
This already has a very detailed log of these questions in the nissan leaf diary.

shanec1928

Nissan doctor wrote: »

You wouldn't be saying that if you knew how much the batteries are....

shock me on how much it costs:o

Bodhan

Oafley Jones wrote: »

Didn't relise that the battery became the owner's after three years. If so, I don't understand why that pricing structure, it's as if they looked at mobile phone contracts and thought why not bastardize that. What is the explanation for 10,000KM allowance? How small is the boot, I take it that's where they've placed the cells.

And sign of the Zoe Bodhan? I'd have been half tempted by it if it wasn't for what I perceive to be the running cost (rental + charging cost / mileage). Although, I should probably account for it in the same way I'd think of tax as I'd be paying it even If I was abroad for a month.

The 82 euro per month pays for the battery, if it wasn't there the price of the car would be near the price of the Leaf and also near the price of an A4 or 3 Series, unreachable for ordinary people. Leasing the battery makes the car much cheaper to buy.

I saw the Zoe at Geneva this year, really nice looking car. It's due in Ireland this Autumn and I've already booked a test. The Zoe would suit my needs more as a second car in the house because it's about the size of a Clio.

antodeco

You may not be able to answer the first one:

- What affect does the car have on insurance?

- Night driving. How much is range affected by having your lights on?

- Passenger comfort

- During rain, is there any noticeable difference in how the car handles/reacts?

- Is there a cigarette lighter? Sounds trivial, but I charge sat nav, in car camera and phone. If possible, what's the drain?

Bodhan

forza rovers wrote: »

so once you but the car. you still have to rent a battery from Renault? does it not come with a battery or can you by whatever battery is needed for it outright?

You lease the battery from Renault, I don't think they will allow you to buy a battery for it. Battery would cost about 8-9k on its own. If you want to buy an EV car outright the Nissan Leaf, Citroen C Zero, Mitsubishi I-Mev well you get the idea. Renault are the only ones doing the lease thing, personally I think the lease is the best option because you can sell the car at anytime and the lease moves with it.

Nissan doctor

forza rovers wrote: »

shock me on how much it costs:o

I don't know exactly, but I do know that the price is made up of 4 numbers....and the first number isn't a 1 either.....or a 2:eek:

Bodhan

You may not be able to answer the first one:

- What affect does the car have on insurance? Not sure, I'm sure the policy would be the same as you have but you'd have to ask for a quote. Might be worth looking into who'll quote for an EV car.

- Night driving. How much is range affected by having your lights on? I was out last night and there was no change in the range. Might be different on a long drive though.

- Passenger comfort Same as a standard Fluence, really comfy seats. Boots a bit small though, whopping big batteries in there.

- During rain, is there any noticeable difference in how the car handles/reacts? I can't believe I'm going to say this, the roads haven't been wet since I got the car. It rained last night but it was dried off this morning.

- Is there a cigarette lighter? Sounds trivial, but I charge sat nav, in car camera and phone. If possible, what's the drain? Yes, there's charge points in the car. I'm not sure what the draw of a sat nav/phone would be but I doubt it would make any impact on range.

Bodhan

naturalblue wrote: »

http://selfficiency.wordpress.com
This already has a very detailed log of these questions in the nissan leaf diary.

That's a good blog, another good guy is Bobby Llewellyn from Red Dwarf and Carpool. He's doing Fully Charged at the moment and that's all about Electric stuff http://www.llewtube.com/

Good iTunes podcast too, he's one of the guys that helped me get started with videos on the next gear too. Nice guy

Drummerboy08

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

The main problem I see with the €82 per month rental is that it's only for 10,000km per year. Thats less that 200km per week. Anything over that you're charged extra for.

Just on this, it's my understanding that Renault are/will offer a number of different mileages. I got some info from Renault on this recently, I just haven't had a chance to read it. I'll check it out tomorrow!

On the cost of the battery, I have seen reports of a number of places suggesting a cost of 7/8k, some others are into 5 figures.

While on a training course with Renault for EV's recently, there is talk of a development where you drive your Renault EV into a "garage" and over a machine, where this machine removes the current, empty battery and replaces it with a fully charged battery. This should only take 5 minutes and is fully automated. AFAIK, this is being trialled in Scandanavia at the minute, and is potentially on it's way here within 18 months.

This would make the problem of long charges fairly obsolete.

Bodhan

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

Just on this, it's my understanding that Renault are/will offer a number of different mileages. I got some info from Renault on this recently, I just haven't had a chance to read it. I'll check it out tomorrow!

On the cost of the battery, I have seen reports of a number of places suggesting a cost of 7/8k, some others are into 5 figures.

While on a training course with Renault for EV's recently, there is talk of a development where you drive your Renault EV into a "garage" and over a machine, where this machine removes the current, empty battery and replaces it with a fully charged battery. This should only take 5 minutes and is fully automated. AFAIK, this is being trialled in Scandanavia at the minute, and is potentially on it's way here within 18 months.

This would make the problem of long charges fairly obsolete.

Yes, the prices for the batteries are all over the shop, 8-9k I keep hearing.

The battery drop thing would be a great idea but we'd need loads of them. No good there being one in Dublin when I'm in Galway. BTW that's the reason why the batteries are in the boot of the Fluence like one big block, easy for drop out.

Drummerboy08

Bodhan wrote: »

The battery drop thing would be a great idea but we'd need loads of them. No good there being one in Dublin when I'm in Galway. BTW that's the reason why the batteries are in the boot of the Fluence like one big block, easy for drop out.

Yeah, it would need to be a fairly regular sight on Irish roads alright. This kind of thing would greatly increase sales of EV's in Ireland IMO.

I had a good look under the Kangoo EV, it's actually fairly easy to remove the battery.

shedweller

How many 100% charges does the battery take before deteriorating.
Or, put another way, what is the range like after year 1,2,3,4,5, etc.
8000 euro buys me a lot of diesel and keeps me going for a long time at 3.4L/100k so the numbers will have to add up. I spend less than the batteries monthly rental on diesel per month!

heathersonline

What's the road tax on it? And any guesses how long it'll be before the government quadruple it?

Drummerboy08

shedweller wrote: »

How many 100% charges does the battery take before deteriorating.
Or, put another way, what is the range like after year 1,2,3,4,5, etc.
8000 euro buys me a lot of diesel and keeps me going for a long time at 3.4L/100k so the numbers will have to add up. I spend less than the batteries monthly rental on diesel per month!

How the batteries stand up is a complete unknown at the minute, simply because the cars havent been around long enough. Only time will tell really.

heathersonline wrote: »

What's the road tax on it? And any guesses how long it'll be before the government quadruple it?

All EV's are currently band A to tax, god only knows what the gubberment will do to the tax system.

Bodhan

shedweller wrote: »

How many 100% charges does the battery take before deteriorating.
Or, put another way, what is the range like after year 1,2,3,4,5, etc.
8000 euro buys me a lot of diesel and keeps me going for a long time at 3.4L/100k so the numbers will have to add up. I spend less than the batteries monthly rental on diesel per month!

That's a question I'm not sure there's a good answer too. Same as a mobile phone or laptop, it depends on how often it gets charged/discharged.

EV cars aren't for everyone. As a second car in the house it would suit me a lot more than a petrol model.

Bodhan

heathersonline wrote: »

What's the road tax on it? And any guesses how long it'll be before the government quadruple it?

It's 160 per year, tax band A. I think it should have it's own tax band something like 25 euro per year as there's no CO2 (or any gas) There isn't any exhaust pipes for that matter

Oafley Jones

shedweller wrote: »

How many 100% charges does the battery take before deteriorating.
Or, put another way, what is the range like after year 1,2,3,4,5, etc.
8000 euro buys me a lot of diesel and keeps me going for a long time at 3.4L/100k so the numbers will have to add up. I spend less than the batteries monthly rental on diesel per month!

I think they're standard Lithium Ion batteries, if they are the drop is 20% capacity after 500 cycles.

Anan1

Bodhan wrote: »

I think it should have it's own tax band something like 25 euro per year as there's no CO2 (or any gas) There isn't any exhaust pipes for that matter

Sure there is, it's all at the power station.

Bodhan

Anan1 wrote: »

Sure there is, it's all at the power station.

The power stations were and are putting out the gasses long before the EV cars came on the scene. Maybe the power stations should be fined?

ESB Ireland are on a clean up, though it'll take awhile

The Bishop Basher

Bodhan wrote: »

Anan1 wrote: »

Sure there is, it's all at the power station.

The power stations were and are putting out the gasses long before the EV cars came on the scene. Maybe the power stations should be fined?

ESB Ireland are on a clean up, though it'll take awhile

Tax has little or nothing to do with Co2 emissions. If it did I wouldn't be paying double because I have a 06. And it'll mean even less after the next budget. Combine this with the carbon footprint in making new cars and it makes even less sense. Let's not kid ourselves here.

Anan1

Bodhan wrote: »

The power stations were and are putting out the gasses long before the EV cars came on the scene. Maybe the power stations should be fined?

ESB Ireland are on a clean up, though it'll take awhile

It is impossible to generate electricity from fossil fuels without producing CO2. Irish EVs therefore produce CO2, just not at the tailpipe. Your argument for €25 tax is therefore based on a false premise.

Marcusm

Anan1 wrote: »

It is impossible to generate electricity from fossil fuels without producing CO2. Irish EVs therefore produce CO2, just not at the tailpipe. Your argument for €25 tax is therefore based on a false premise.

However, if the EV was only charged overnight from electricity which was otherwise surplus, there would be some argument for a lower tax rate. When they hybrids came out first, they all had tax advantages in many countries, in some places even those which were mated to 4L engines. There is a general surplus of nighttime electricity and perhaps an incentive should be provided for vehicles which exploit it. That should perhaps be at the point of use (i.e. charge) rather than annual motor tax. Applying that to ICEs should also be a priority (IMO).

pburns

Has anyone mentioned the Opel Ampera?

OK, I'm not sure I like the looks or cost (that's a discussion for another day) but in a way it plugs the gap between hybrid and full EV. An EV without the range anxiety if you like. It seems to me a more promising solution.

All this talk about dropping in batteries, dropping out batteries, having to charge on a Dublin-Galway run ruins the EV thing for me. I presume the infrastructure for swapping batteries would be limited to regular opening hours in Renault garages? Yeah, that's real convenient...

As a 2nd car? Frankly I think a Panda would be as cost-effective and versatile.

Renault are pulling out all the stops on PR because they've bet the house on EV. Let's just say I remain to be convinced...

Darsad

[Quote

Taking the readings from my electric meter I've done 175kms for 3.50 Euro of home charging [/Quote]

Ha so electric cars actually cost motoring journos more to run than a top of the range super car ? Suppose you could give renault your esb bill :-!

Anan1

Marcusm wrote: »

However, if the EV was only charged overnight from electricity which was otherwise surplus, there would be some argument for a lower tax rate. When they hybrids came out first, they all had tax advantages in many countries, in some places even those which were mated to 4L engines. There is a general surplus of nighttime electricity and perhaps an incentive should be provided for vehicles which exploit it. That should perhaps be at the point of use (i.e. charge) rather than annual motor tax. Applying that to ICEs should also be a priority (IMO).

I'm not against a lower tax rate for EV, I just don't want it to be based on a lie.:)

Sesshoumaru

Bodhan wrote: »

It's 160 per year, tax band A. I think it should have it's own tax band something like 25 euro per year as there's no CO2 (or any gas) There isn't any exhaust pipes for that matter

Careful now.... You should probably read the large sprawling thread on the rumored possible motor tax hike.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056567929

You're very likely to rouse an angry mob by suggesting more fuel efficient vehicles / low CO2 emission vehicles should be taxed less!

martyc5674

Does it slow down much when you crank up the tunes??

I bet when they become main stream robbing batteries from them will be pretty rife...

Battery development seems to have plateau'd but I do think these are the way forward.
Aerodynamics and EV specific tyres will be a big help I reckon.

Marty.