So I have an Electric car on test..

Bodhan

Well lads, it had to happen. I have a Renault Fluence ZE on test this week, it's all electric and much better than I expected.

Taking the readings from my electric meter I've done 175kms for 3.50 Euro of home charging.

Is there any questions that you guys have about these electric cars?

Chuck_Norris

I suppose the ultimate question people would have would be range? And charging times.

May seem like stupid questions, but I suppose if people had another example/ answer to the above two questions, it might help range anxiety.

And if you've driven a regular Fluence, any major differences between the two ?

EDIT: Bit of a step down from the 640.

irishgrover

are you test driving because you are a potential buyer, or because you are doing a 'review' type thing?

Bodhan

Chuck_Norris wrote: »

I suppose the ultimate question people would have would be range? And charging times.

May seem like stupid questions, but I suppose if people had another example/ answer to the above two questions, it might help range anxiety.

And if you've driven a regular Fluence, any major differences between the two ?

EDIT: Bit of a step down from the 640.

Range for me has been about 120kms on mostly motorway. I drove it from Sandyford to Portlaoise in one hop with 30kms left in the tank. If you're in town the range is more because the car can recharge its self when you decelerate.

Other than being very quiet and a bit heavier it's the very same as the Diesel Fluence to drive. The boot is a lot smaller though

I miss the 604d though lol

Bodhan

irishgrover wrote: »

are you test driving because you are a potential buyer, or because you are doing a 'review' type thing?

Check the signature, I'm a motoring writer for the next gear and some newspapers. So it's a review

alexlyons

the public charge points are meant to be faster than home charging, can you give any real world reaction? i heard it was meant to take an hour for a full charge from the public points compared to 12. i assume you have to pay for public points so would you rekon the price difference is worth it?

aujopimur

Electric cars are the work of the devil.

Wile E. Coyote

It's better looking than the Nissan Leaf but I wouldn't be a fan of paying €82 a month rental for the battery when they only give you an allocation of 10,000km a year. It would work out cheaper to buy and run the diesel model.

Nissan doctor

Bodhan wrote: »

Check the signature, I'm a motoring writer for the next gear and some newspapers. So it's a review

So you won't have a job for long if you say that a green, eco, electric car is rubbish?

smash

Bodhan wrote: »

Taking the readings from my electric meter I've done 175kms for 3.50 Euro of home charging.

Seems very cheap. Did you get a grant or something?

gerrycollins

simply can you cut throught the stuff they tell us about the car and give us the practical version of each statement ie charging times, handling and distance and what about emergancy recharge should you need it? ie can you plug it into a normal 3 pin socket?

Bodhan

alexlyons wrote: »

the public charge points are meant to be faster than home charging, can you give any real world reaction? i heard it was meant to take an hour for a full charge from the public points compared to 12. i assume you have to pay for public points so would you rekon the price difference is worth it?

Public charge points are faster than home chargers, if it takes about 4-5 hours at home to charge from empty it will take 2-3 hours at a standard public charge point. You need a special cable to fast charge and that isn't supplied in the test car so I can't comment there/
At the moment the public charge points are free to use, you get a card from the ESB. Its free because they have no way of charging for it.
There's going to be competition for putting credit on the card from all the electric companies, you'll be able to buy credit in any shop or elect to charge through your home bill.
No prices yet.

Anan1

Bodhan wrote: »

Public charge points are faster than home chargers, if it takes about 4-5 hours at home to charge from empty it will take 2-3 hours at a standard public charge point. You need a special cable to fast charge and that isn't supplied in the test car so I can't comment there

That's a bit odd. Would you not ask them for one?

Bodhan

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

It's better looking than the Nissan Leaf but I wouldn't be a fan of paying €82 a month rental for the battery when they only give you an allocation of 10,000km a year. It would work out cheaper to buy and run the diesel model.

Problem is, you buy the battery in the Leaf which means the car costs a lot more then the Fluence ZE. 82 euro gets you all the servicing of the battery looked after and the same apples if new batteries come out (doubtful).

If you are currently doing over 20,000kms per year then an electric car probably won't suit you BUT if your millage is lower then there might be huge savings. Remember there's no oil changes just a maintenance check every 2 years or so.

Bodhan

Nissan doctor wrote: »

So you won't have a job for long if you say that a green, eco, electric car is rubbish?

I'm independent so I am one of the few who can say what I like lol! BTW it's not rubbish, I'm sure when the car first came along people said that it was crap and the work of the devil compared to horses and look where we are now!

Bodhan

smash wrote: »

Seems very cheap. Did you get a grant or something?

No grant and no night meter, I took readings the week before I got the car and I've compared them to this weeks readings and it's about 3.50 euro different. There's nothing else new in the house that's drawing the extra electricity

Bodhan

Bodhan wrote: »

I'm independent so I am one of the few who can say what I like lol! ...................

Just on that point, when was the last negative review you gave?

Bodhan

gerrycollins wrote: »

simply can you cut throught the stuff they tell us about the car and give us the practical version of each statement ie charging times, handling and distance and what about emergancy recharge should you need it? ie can you plug it into a normal 3 pin socket?

Will do, when the test is over. This way I make sure that what I write and video answers all the questions that people have.

dr.fuzzenstein

Bodhan wrote: »

Public charge points are faster than home chargers, if it takes about 4-5 hours at home to charge from empty it will take 2-3 hours at a standard public charge point. You need a special cable to fast charge and that isn't supplied in the test car so I can't comment there/
At the moment the public charge points are free to use, you get a card from the ESB. Its free because they have no way of charging for it.
There's going to be competition for putting credit on the card from all the electric companies, you'll be able to buy credit in any shop or elect to charge through your home bill.
No prices yet.

Can you elaborate why? Is it because of higher voltage, ampage, three phase vs two phase? Would it be possible to convert the home charger to fast charge?
Those would be very important points.

Nissan doctor

Bodhan wrote: »

I'm independent so I am one of the few who can say what I like lol! BTW it's not rubbish, I'm sure when the car first came along people said that it was crap and the work of the devil compared to horses and look where we are now!

You can say what you like but will it get published?:P

RobAMerc

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Can you elaborate why? Is it because of higher voltage, ampage, three phase vs two phase? Would it be possible to convert the home charger to fast charge?
Those would be very important points.

Ah come on, do you think the guy is a motoring writer or the engineer behind the ZE ? Bit unreasonable to expect him to know the answers to these tbf

Bodhan

RoverJames wrote: »

Just on that point, when was the last negative review you gave?

here we go again, Hi Roverjames. If you watch and follow the site and videos there are things that are mentioned in every review that I don't like.
There are very few cars on the road that are truly bad, the ones that are bad aren't usually available for test.
The market here is too small for car companies to be putting out bad cars, they wouldn't last a minute. There's no point is saying a car is crap for the sake of it, an opinion has to be backed up and I can back up everyone of my opinions.

On a side note, some of the worst cars I've driven are currently some of the best selling cars in Ireland so there's no accounting for taste.

Nissan doctor

RobAMerc wrote: »

Ah come on, do you think the guy is a motoring writer or the engineer behind the ZE ? Bit unreasonable to expect him to know the answers to these tbf

If he is going to write an informative piece on the subject then he has to know all these things.

Bodhan

Nissan doctor wrote: »

You can say what you like but will it get published?:P

I own my own site so yea it'll be published!

Sesshoumaru

Bodhan wrote: »

Problem is, you buy the battery in the Leaf which means the car costs a lot more then the Fluence ZE. 82 euro gets you all the servicing of the battery looked after and the same apples if new batteries come out (doubtful).

If you are currently doing over 20,000kms per year then an electric car probably won't suit you BUT if your millage is lower then there might be huge savings. Remember there's no oil changes just a maintenance check every 2 years or so.

I will have my Nissan Leaf one year exactly on April 21st this month. So far we have over 23,000 kilometers on the clock. Wife and I are very happy so far. I met another Leaf owner at the weekend who was doing a lot more mileage than me.

On the Fluence ZE, I think you should ask Renault when is the triple phase version coming out? and what will they do for people who buy the current Fluence ZE that doesn't have triple phase charging capability.

Bodhan

Bodhan wrote: »

here we go again,................

On a side note, some of the worst cars I've driven are currently some of the best selling cars in Ireland so there's no accounting for taste.

Here we go again???
You were the one mentioning you say what you like

I don't remember you mentioning in any of the videos on the site about any car being along the lines of the the worst car you've driven

I'd be guessing you won't be revealing what these best sellers are who were some of the worst cars you've driven?

Bodhan

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Can you elaborate why? Is it because of higher voltage, ampage, three phase vs two phase? Would it be possible to convert the home charger to fast charge?
Those would be very important points.

Higher voltage in the public charge points, they are all three phase. I'll get more info on that, good question I'll ask ESB and Renault.

No, you can't convert to fast charger at home, the wiring in your house wouldn't put up with it. It also shortens the battery cycles to continually fast charge. just like a laptop that won't hold a charge anymore.

Bodhan

RoverJames wrote: »

Here we go again???
You were the one mentioning you say what you like

I don't remember you mentioning in any of the videos on the site about any car being along the lines of the the worst car you've driven

I'd be guessing you won't be revealing what these best sellers are who were some of the worst cars you've driven?

Why don't we keep it on topic?

Mellio

I think there is a long way to go before people are driving electric cars.

I havent driven one but from what I have read it is just not financially viable,
definitely not at the moment anyway.

There are a number of Issues I think:

1. Too Expensive to buy and then pay rental of €82 a month for a battery.
€82 x 12 months x 10 years = €9,840. (Assuming it lasts 10 years)

2. Replacing the Battery at end of life. from what I read its very expensive.

3. Very few charge points however ESB are fitting charge points to houses
for the first 2000 customers.(numbers may not be accurate).

4. Waiting 2-3 hours at any point to charge the car is far too long,
people can fill up there petrol in 4 mins max and get going.

5. You will never own the car as you are renting the main component of it always
so selling it I feel would be very difficult and will have to go back to main dealer always
as issues with passing on rental cost of batteries could become a real issue privately.

Im sure there are lot of positives as well such as the envirnoment, running costs, quietness of vehicle e.t.c.

For me though Electric will only really come in to play when petrol and diesel start to dry up.

Matt Simis

Id be interesting in hearing:

Lack of noise and its effect on pedestrians crossing roads and carparks (genuinely, its the opposite of loud pipes save lives). Plus:

• Overtaking ability on motorway
• Overtaking ability on tight, winding backroads
• General performance outside of maintained urban areas.
• Lack of noise, engine feedback and general "mechanicalness" and its effect on driver fatigue over long commutes

bbam

Service costs over 5 years or even longer.
I'd like to understand what maintenance costs there would be? I don't believe there are no serviceable parts in the motors/drivetrain.

I know your test won't cover resale values but what are opinions on this? I'd fear the depreciation on a 5 year old car with 100,000 km's would be horrific.

RobAMerc

Nissan doctor wrote: »

If he is going to write an informative piece on the subject then he has to know all these things.

fair enough - not to me though,I'm not trying to be smart it's just that I'd be more interested in the real world questions such as those Matt Simis posed. I don't have an engineering or physics degree, I like cars

Bodhan

Matt Simis wrote: »

Id be interesting in hearing:

Lack of noise and its effect on pedestrians crossing roads and carparks (genuinely, its the opposite of loud pipes save lives). Plus:

• Overtaking ability on motorway
• Overtaking ability on tight, winding backroads
• General performance outside of maintained urban areas.
• Lack of noise, engine feedback and general "mechanicalness" and its effect on driver fatigue over long commutes

Good questions!

On a motorway it does just fine, easy to overtake because of all the torque BUT the faster you drive the more fuel you use just like a normal car. So the range drops quickly once you get over the 120kph mark.

Same here for the small roads, if anything its better because all the torque comes in one go at all speeds.

It just behaves like a normal car on any road, there's even cruise control.

Lack of noise is a big issue, in two days I've had dogs, kids and adults just walk out in front of me, I nearly hit the dog too as he just ran out in the street. Kids and adults were ok, they just got a shock when they seen the car so close. They need a noise especially when reversing.

stimpson

Bodhan wrote: »

Good questions!

On a motorway it does just fine, easy to overtake because of all the torque BUT the faster you drive the more fuel you use just like a normal car. So the range drops quickly once you get over the 120kph mark.

So what's the range at 120kph on a full charge? What speed did you do Dublin to Portlaoise at?

GavMan

Mellio wrote: »

1. Too Expensive to buy and then pay rental of €82 a month for a battery.
€82 x 12 months x 10 years = €9,840. (Assuming it lasts 10 years)

A little erroneous in that the Fluence ZE is €21,610. Hardless outrageous for a family Saloon. Plus your agreement with Renault is for 3 years, so thats 2952 on top of 21610 = 24562 all in. Again very favourable with the diesel equivalent.

Bodhan

bbam wrote: »

Service costs over 5 years or even longer.
I'd like to understand what maintenance costs there would be? I don't believe there are no serviceable parts in the motors/drivetrain.

I know your test won't cover resale values but what are opinions on this? I'd fear the depreciation on a 5 year old car with 100,000 km's would be horrific.

There are of course normal oily bits in the car, shocks, CV joints and so on. There's no engine and gearbox stuff though (there's only one gear) so other than normal wear and tear stuff that happens to any car the servicing should be much cheaper.

That's unknown at the moment, we've never had used electric cars before. It depends on how many of them are sold to begin with, if there's a market for them then it will do well.

irishgrover

Bodhan wrote: »

...... You need a special cable to fast charge and that isn't supplied in the test car so I can't comment there/
......

hi again. I was seriously considering and electric car a couple of months ago. I test drove both the renault and also the nissan.
I could not handle the nissan purely because if looked a bit odd, but also because of the inital cost.
The renault went out of consideration for the following reasons...

Renault told me that:
a.) The current car will not work with the public fast charge points
b.) A new model that will come out next year will
c.) The current model cannot be retro-fitted to use the fast charge.

This to me was a "show stopper". In effect I could not drive the car from Galway to Dublin without at least one very significant (possible overnight stop)

This, to me, makes the Renault (current model) compeltely unbuyable

Kinikie

How many public chargers are there? And are they all city based?

Bodhan

stimpson wrote: »

So what's the range at 120kph on a full charge? What speed did you do Dublin to Portlaoise at?

All on the N7, so between 100kph and 120kph all the way home, nearly 100kms all told. At the other end I still have 30kms left in the tank, I didn't use cruise control for the drive.
I'm the first test in Ireland so there's a lot more info to come on this millage thing yet. I'm also out on another 100km run tomorrow, that's 100kms there and back with a charge in between!

Wile E. Coyote

GavMan wrote: »

A little erroneous in that the Fluence ZE is €21,610. Hardless outrageous for a family Saloon. Plus your agreement with Renault is for 3 years, so thats 2952 on top of 21610 = 24562 all in. Again very favourable with the diesel equivalent.

The main problem I see with the €82 per month rental is that it's only for 10,000km per year. Thats less that 200km per week. Anything over that you're charged extra for.

Bodhan

Kinikie wrote: »

How many public chargers are there? And are they all city based?

There's charges going in all over the place. There's an app you can get on iTunes from the ESB that shows all of them, good app actually. It's on Android too.
Here's a full map on the web http://www.esb.ie/electric-cars/electric-car-charging/electric-car-charge-point-map.jsp

Bodhan

Wile E. Coyote wrote: »

The main problem I see with the €82 per month rental is that it's only for 10,000km per year. Thats less that 200km per week. Anything over that you're charged extra for.

That's my problem too, at the moment Renault won't say what the charge is when you go over the 10k.
My mates in the UK tell me that they charge 5-10 pounds per month extra for going over. That's a lot if you are going to do 20k per year.

dr.fuzzenstein

Bodhan wrote: »

Lack of noise is a big issue, in two days I've had dogs, kids and adults just walk out in front of me, I nearly hit the dog too as he just ran out in the street. Kids and adults were ok, they just got a shock when they seen the car so close. They need a noise especially when reversing.

Thanks for your previous reply, very useful info.
As for the noise, some vehicles offer artificial noise, this might be standard or even legal requirement in the future.
Some info:
http://www.transport.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/60634/EV-fact-sheet-TEACHER-electric-vehicle-basics-w.pdf
http://www.transport.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/60634/EV-fact-sheet-TEACHER-electric-vehicle-basics-w.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_warning_sounds

Sesshoumaru

Bodhan wrote: »

Lack of noise is a big issue, in two days I've had dogs, kids and adults just walk out in front of me, I nearly hit the dog too as he just ran out in the street. Kids and adults were ok, they just got a shock when they seen the car so close. They need a noise especially when reversing.

http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/business/8880765.Nissan_Leaf_facing_delay/

NISSAN is delaying delivery of its Leaf electric car which goes on sale in the UK from today after it emerged the vehicle has been fitted with a hazard warning bleeper that must be removed before it can be driven in this country.

The hazard warning beeper came on when put into reverse.

The Leaf does make an artificial whining noise at low speed. TBH I've never had an issue with people not hearing the car coming. I've also driven the Fluence ZE, I thought it also makes a whining noise once put into D mode?

bbam

Would there be much reduction in range if you were loaded.
Say 4 adults over a journey.


In fairness it sounds like they could easily replace lots of town runabouts without much trouble. Leaving more fossil fuels for the rest of us to use up.

Mellio

GavMan wrote: »

A little erroneous in that the Fluence ZE is €21,610. Hardless outrageous for a family Saloon. Plus your agreement with Renault is for 3 years, so thats 2952 on top of 21610 = 24562 all in. Again very favourable with the diesel equivalent.

Fair enough but what happens after 3 years and the battery then becomes your responsiblity.

You have to go to main dealer for maintenance or repairs as there will be very few if any independant garages being abale to service/repair these and we all know what the costs are like for servicing by main dealers.

and as already mentioned whats the additinoal cost for going over 10,000km, I work and drive locally and still do more than 10,000km so another expense.


I have just read that they are also offering different types of packages such as a Maintenance package, breakdown package so again more expense.

I believe its a black hole as to how much the overall costs will be and then again what the resale values will be. Main Dealers will have you over a barrell in terms of what they are willing to offer you.

Big Nasty

And for interior noise:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4H_PCeVQeM

Nissan doctor

Mellio wrote: »

Fair enough but what happens after 3 years and the battery then becomes your responsiblity.

You have to go to main dealer for maintenance or repairs as there will be very few if any independant garages being abale to service/repair these and we all know what the costs are like for servicing by main dealers.

and as already mentioned whats the additinoal cost for going over 10,000km, I work and drive locally and still do more than 10,000km so another expense.


I have just read that they are also offering different types of packages such as a Maintenance package, breakdown package so again more expense.

I believe its a black hole as to how much the overall costs will be and then again what the resale values will be. Main Dealers will have you over a barrell in terms of what they are willing to offer you.

I know an independent mechanic who is going for specific training for electric/hybrid/start stop vehicles in the next few months;)

Mellio

Nissan doctor wrote: »

I know an independent mechanic who is going for specific training for electric/hybrid/start stop vehicles in the next few months;)

Well if I ever decide to go with an Electric Car I will know there is at least one option of an independant mechanic.

Matt Simis

MCMLXXV wrote: »

And for interior noise:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4H_PCeVQeM

GTFO!

From the Youtube clip text:

Sound Racer V8 in my brothers'
Scion. Delicious, delicious fun.

Sounds absolutely nothing like any internal combustion engine, let alone a V8. Sounds more like a broken electric grass strimmer.

Big Nasty

Matt Simis wrote: »

Sounds absolutely nothing like any internal combustion engine, let alone a V8. Sounds more like a broken electric grass strimmer.

Sounds better than tumbleweed though!