So I have an Electric car on test..

shedweller

MYOB wrote: »

Kinikie wrote: »

How many public chargers are there? And are they all city based?

Not very many. But not all city based at all.

http://www.esb.ie/electric-cars/electric-car-charging/electric-car-charge-point-map.jsp

Green / blue = exist, orange = planned, purple = exist but currently broken. As you can see, one being broken could strand you at the moment.

I drive a lot and I have NEVER seen a car using one. Only time I've even seen a photo of one is Seshomara's car parked at my local one.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

but look at it this way, id say little chef are ramping up their plans and puring money into EV's , what better way to make money than have somebody forced to sit around for a few hours while the car charges

You're aware Little Chef sold out to Eddie Rockets here ages ago - we'd have to ban motors meets from going there if they did that

Theres something that i've been thinking recently. Theres motorists and then theres enthusiasts. Motorists just want to get somewhere affordably. Enthusiasts place more emphasis on the journey and what they travel in. Grand, i get that. But we cant all go around in V6's. Sound lovely and all but........
We have to live and let live a little more, i think.

Just a thought.

puzzle factory

its gona be just like the reasonable tax, as soon as a majority buy them, there gona rape them.

Sesshoumaru

MYOB wrote: »

Not very many. But not all city based at all.

http://www.esb.ie/electric-cars/electric-car-charging/electric-car-charge-point-map.jsp

Green / blue = exist, orange = planned, purple = exist but currently broken. As you can see, one being broken could strand you at the moment.

I drive a lot and I have NEVER seen a car using one. Only time I've even seen a photo of one is Seshomara's car parked at my local one.




You're aware Little Chef sold out to Eddie Rockets here ages ago - we'd have to ban motors meets from going there if they did that

Here's a photo of six charging, including mine

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2056596514

My wife and I always use the Tesco Maynooth one whenever we're shopping there. I've occasionally used one near the Natural History Museum when bringing the kids there. Last one I've used occasionally would be the one inside Q Park on Cathal Brugha street. Other than that I've got a slow charger outside my home and do most of charging at home. For a Nissan Leaf owner the fast chargers are the really useful ones.

I'd probably use public slow chargers more often if they could just get them in places where I might find myself. Out of town shopping centers like Liffey Valley and Blanchardstown etc Although I think EV owners will have to wait until the smarter transport bill 2011 makes it through. I like to bring the family to Bray to see the seaside on weekends and if there was a public charging point there, some regular car would probably be parked in it all the time.

Banbh

Would it be possible to charge the battery from a micro-turbine (windmill)?

I was one of those suckers that believed the Green Party when they said we would be able to connect our micro-turbines to the grid. Never happened.

OssianSmyth

ESB has been accepting microgeneration connections to the grid for the past 5 years. The scheme is to be terminated this year.

This guy in Cork is running his car form an array of solar panels.

I would imagine that most EV owners recharge at night on cheap rates so I don't know how useful solar would be. Might make more sense for charging at work. Solar capacity factor in Ireland is going to be low but at least solar panels prices have halved.

Micro wind generation has mostly been a disappointment with a UK study showing average microgeneration of just .2 kWh/day - enough to boil 2 kettles but not much for a 24kWh car battery.

All that said, wind and electric cars do sound like a good match.

It's early days for EVs. The Fluence battery lease is way too pricey and Fluence can't do fast charging! So there's only one car in the market so far and the price will reflect that.

The key advantage of EVs is that they use half the energy of regular cars and are adaptable to non-fossil fuels, so there's a national strategic reason to promote them.

The infrastructure rollout is essential to removing range anxiety yet it seems to be proceeding very slowly. A fast charger is €20K falling to €10K this year. That seems like a very low cost compared to liquid fuel infrastructure. You could roll out 100 fast chargers for 1m-2m + installation.

MadYaker

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Thanks for your previous reply, very useful info.
As for the noise, some vehicles offer artificial noise, this might be standard or even legal requirement in the future.
Some info:
http://www.transport.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/60634/EV-fact-sheet-TEACHER-electric-vehicle-basics-w.pdf
http://www.transport.vic.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0019/60634/EV-fact-sheet-TEACHER-electric-vehicle-basics-w.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_vehicle_warning_sounds

I want my future electric car to sound like a Ferrari 599.

Zubeneschamali

OssianSmyth wrote: »

Solar capacity factor in Ireland is going to be low but at least solar panels prices have halved.

Solar electricity does look promising, the panels themselves are basically arrays of chips, and following the usual cost of electronic devices, they are getting cheaper every year.

Not ideal in Irish conditions, though.

Joe 90

OssianSmyth wrote: »

ESB has been accepting microgeneration connections to the grid for the past 5 years. The scheme is to be terminated this year.

This guy in Cork is running his car form an array of solar panels.

I would imagine that most EV owners recharge at night on cheap rates so I don't know how useful solar would be. Might make more sense for charging at work. Solar capacity factor in Ireland is going to be low but at least solar panels prices have halved.

Micro wind generation has mostly been a disappointment with a UK study showing average microgeneration of just .2 kWh/day - enough to boil 2 kettles but not much for a 24kWh car battery.

All that said, wind and electric cars do sound like a good match.

It's early days for EVs. The Fluence battery lease is way too pricey and Fluence can't do fast charging! So there's only one car in the market so far and the price will reflect that.

The key advantage of EVs is that they use half the energy of regular cars and are adaptable to non-fossil fuels, so there's a national strategic reason to promote them.

The infrastructure rollout is essential to removing range anxiety yet it seems to be proceeding very slowly. A fast charger is €20K falling to €10K this year. That seems like a very low cost compared to liquid fuel infrastructure. You could roll out 100 fast chargers for 1m-2m + installation.

Agreed that they can get their energy from non fossil fuels but how can they use half the energy?

daveharnett

RoverJames wrote: »

I reckon folks with a very new EV and battery might be very hesitant to use that facility.

It's a different economic model - you don't buy/lease a battery, the batteries are a service, which you pay for by the mile. Under that model, swapping in and out isn't a problem. The manufacturer (or a neutral 3rd party, lets call them Shell) owns the batteries, looks after them, and takes the duds out of circulation as soon as they arrive at a 'swap station'.

The electricity that goes into the batteries is a slight complication, but it's not rocket science to decouple the two expenses.

With that model, and a standard procedure to swap out batteries, petrol stations can become battery swap stations, and make EVs a more realistic proposition.

kiki

Bodhan wrote: »

Is this where you think your motor tax is being spent? My point is, there will be very few EV's on the road, the road tax is CO2 based and EV emit none.

While that is correct at one level - it is very inaccurate to say there is no emissions from a EV. The Energy needs to be fed to the car - electricity and that comes in our case in Ireland from mainly burning fossil fuels. We are not a green electrical producer - we depend vastly on fossil fuels..

An interesting factor in generating electrical power from burning fuels is given by the carnot engine / cycle physics - it means that for electrical power generators run from an engine burning a fuel have a maximum efficiency of 30% - that means 70% of the energy goes up the chimney in the way of waste heat at the power station.

Compare that to ICE - well guess what a similar 30% rule applies here too - 70% of energy goes in heat in engine the other 30% kinetic energy - but at least some of that waste heat can be used to heat cabin.

What would be interesting is to see - what the total efficiency and CO2 emitted by EV and ICE in totality.

beazee

kiki wrote: »

electricity and that comes in our case in Ireland from mainly burning fossil fuels. We are not a green electrical producer - we depend vastly on fossil fuels..

Airtricity offers 100% GREEN tariff, rest assured.
http://www.airtricity.com/ie/home/products/100-percent-green/

Joe 90

kiki wrote: »

While that is correct at one level - it is very inaccurate to say there is no emissions from a EV. The Energy needs to be fed to the car - electricity and that comes in our case in Ireland from mainly burning fossil fuels. We are not a green electrical producer - we depend vastly on fossil fuels..

An interesting factor in generating electrical power from burning fuels is given by the carnot engine / cycle physics - it means that for electrical power generators run from an engine burning a fuel have a maximum efficiency of 30% - that means 70% of the energy goes up the chimney in the way of waste heat at the power station.

Compare that to ICE - well guess what a similar 30% rule applies here too - 70% of energy goes in heat in engine the other 30% kinetic energy - but at least some of that waste heat can be used to heat cabin.

What would be interesting is to see - what the total efficiency and CO2 emitted by EV and ICE in totality.

Whereas 30% is a reasonable ballpark figure for the efficiency of the engine in the car the power station will do a fair bit better. However you then have transmission losses, losses in the battery and finally some losses in the electric motor. The electric motor is very efficient but not 100% efficient. So overall the EV fed electricity from the conventional power station is going to produce a similar amount of emissions as the fossil fuel car. The only difference is where the exhaust pipe is.
On the other hand if the leccy cake from a nuke..

OssianSmyth

Joe 90 wrote: »

Agreed that they can get their energy from non fossil fuels but how can they use half the energy?

roughly:

Petrol engine
Well-pump: 82% efficient
Pump-wheel: 20% efficient

Total: 16%

EV
Natural gas extraction & processing: 95%
Electricity generation from gas: 55%
Grid transmission/distribution: 92%
Charging: 80%
Battery-wheel: 80%

Total 31%

kiki

Joe 90 wrote: »

Whereas 30% is a reasonable ballpark figure for the efficiency of the engine in the car the power station will do a fair bit better. .......The only difference is where the exhaust pipe is.
On the other hand if the leccy cake from a nuke..

I beg to differ re power generation - it physics folks - the limiting factor is described is called a Carnot engine - after the French Scientist and subsequently elaborated on by Rankine.
It simply cant get any better than about 35% efficiency in a traditional power station running of fossil fuels - if the power station is a combined heat and power then yes the 65% waste can be used to heat water or provide heat also.

kiki

kiki wrote: »

I beg to differ re power generation - it physics folks - the limiting factor is described is called a Carnot engine - after the French Scientist and subsequently elaborated on by Rankine.
It simply cant get any better than about 35% efficiency in a traditional power station running of fossil fuels - if the power station is a combined heat and power then yes the 65% waste can be used to heat water or provide heat also.

may have been a bit premature here - figure of 55% is possible in CCGT plants - using both gas and steam turbines.

_Kaiser_

OK first off, hands up.. not a fan of electric cars

But seriously, all this talk about how much cheaper they are. Does anyone REALLY think that if they take off in the same way as everyone moved to diesel after 2008, that our government won't come up with some new tax to replace the lost revenue? Never mind what the ESB and so on will likely add on to the bill as well.

There's no such thing as "cheap" in this country - thought we'd have learned that by now!

Banbh

ESB has been accepting microgeneration connections to the grid for the past 5 years.

If you have a maintenance contract with an ESB approved engineer and the installations is carried out by an ESB contractor and you are willing to give your electricity to the ESB at less than half what they charge you for selling it back to you.
The scheme was designed by 'Green' Minister Ryan to discourage small producers and I suspect that as soon as there is a sizable number of electric cars on the road, a way to tax them will be introduced.

OssianSmyth

Wind microgeneration pays 19c per kWh sold back to Electric Ireland for the first 3,000kWh per year. Electric Ireland charges 8c to 18c per kWh for supply.

There were over 350 wind microgen installations at end 2010.

Future governments will find ways to tax private transport perhaps by universal road pricing. EV subsidies are meant as a temporary catalyst to a more fuel efficient national fleet.

Pdfile

Chuck_Norris wrote: »

I suppose the ultimate question people would have would be range? And charging times.

May seem like stupid questions, but I suppose if people had another example/ answer to the above two questions, it might help range anxiety.

And if you've driven a regular Fluence, any major differences between the two ?

EDIT: Bit of a step down from the 640.

buying an electric car is silly until the tech improves dramatically.


its like buying a ford model T.... sure it was a car... but its a very Very crude example... wait a few years till their better.

Joe 90

kiki wrote: »

may have been a bit premature here - figure of 55% is possible in CCGT plants - using both gas and steam turbines.

Yes, the steam turbine can really add efficiency.

reboot

MadYaker wrote: »

I want my future electric car to sound like a Ferrari 599.

Must be an App ,then bluetooth?