Pro12: Munster vs Leinster, Sat 31 March 7:30pm, Live on RTÉ2

Teferi

irishbucsfan wrote: »

D'Arcy just wasn't poor. If you are saying D'Arcy was poor I'd love to know what you are basing it on. It's completely incorrect as far as I'm concerned.

Perhaps I am mistaken. I'll be looking at the game again later and i'll keep a close eye on him but I remember generally being unimpressed by him.

.ak

GerM wrote: »

In that article, is DOC obscuring someone or is that actually MOD's effort at a lift?!

DOC still stole that one though.

Fireball07

Leinster

durkadurka wrote: »

What did people think of Luke last night. I was frustrated at his unwillingness to pass. He kept trying to go for glory. Running through the middle from inside his 22.
Seemed to be trying too hard.

From a Munster POV, I thought he looked dangerous. Bar Nacewa, he looked the most threatening Leinster back in attack. But in reality, he never created any real chances and you might be right about his unwillingness to pass.

Judgement Day

Leinster

Depressing post match day for a Munster fan - just too many missing players. Can't see where all the criticism of ROG is coming from, he's only one player and can't be expected to always win a match on his own - especially given the mess at scrum and lineout time. I thought Zebo had a quiet game by his own standards but he is the coming man. I have a good feeling about the Ulster game which I didn't have going into last night's match.

tolosenc

Judgement Day wrote: »

Depressing post match day for a Munster fan - just too many missing players. Can't see where all the criticism of ROG is coming from, he's only one player and can be expected to always win a match on his own - especially given the mess at scrum and lineout time.

But he's playing better right now than anyone has ever played before!

Fishooks12

tolosenc wrote: »

But he's playing better right now than anyone has ever played before!

He was playing very well up until Christmas, his best form in a year or two

He was poor last night but people are only too quick to hope on the "he's past it" bandwagon

He's still the man for 10 at Munster and I've no doubt he'll put in a big performance next week

In saying all that I'd like to see an NIQ 10 next year to give us some variety when things aren't going well like last night

Really don't think Keatley is up to it, he's had enough chances at this stage. Even management don't seem to have faith in him

totallegend

Leinster

Just watched the match back again after being there last night.

Munster just lacked any real leadership and no direction. Varley's throwing is a major concern at this stage and there was no penetration from the backs. Zebo had a couple of nice steps but his overall awareness of the game is still lacking. The other backs were pretty anonymous really; did Murphy, Jones, Earls or Mafi contribute anything? I liked the look of Sherry when he came on, I'd like to see him get more game time.

Leinster did very well to maintain control over the game but again, there was a lack of penetration from the backs, certainly until Munster began to tire in the last 20. Sexton was a class act, always seemed to take the right option, thought Heaslip was very good too. It was great to see Luke Fitz showing off his footwork but held onto the ball too long at times. Thorn was very quiet, conceded a penalty, hopefully he's still just blowing off the cobwebs.

And as for O'Gara? Given his comments during the week, he needed to step up to the plate as the out-half and captain last night, and he failed miserably on both fronts. One moment summed it up for me in the first half; Munster had a penalty advantage in the Leinster 22, O'Gara got the ball with Mafi and Zebo outside him and he went for the drop goal. It was a stunning statement of intent, or lack thereof. He created nothing, he provided zero leadership, he was muck.

irishbucsfan

Dylan Hartley

Fishooks12 wrote: »

He was playing very well up until Christmas, his best form in a year or two

He really wasn't. His form in the games he "saved" was very poor. His kicking for goal is as good as ever but the rest of his game has dropped away. Watch the Northampton game again or the Castres game, for the first 79 minutes his performance was fairly similar to last night's, then he drops back in the pocket and slots a drop goal and everyone claims he was brilliant.

Munster limped across the line in both those game. The first one was 40 phases of the most blind and ignorant refereeing of an offensive team in the history of the Heineken Cup (no guesses which home-town specialist ref that was) and the second was a very special win Castres. Very special because Munster managed to struggle against a Castres team with only 4 first team players who were playing 100km away from their home town and were being boycotted by their own fans.

Now in fairness he got better between then and Christmas, but he was by no means in brilliant form and they were by no means important games. Just because he says he was playing "above international standard" in the press doesn't mean he actually was.

He has been off the pace at times this season. I actually think it would do him well to sit behind Keatley for a big game. Bring out some of that infamous competitive spirit... Maybe he'll give Conor George an interview about how Ian Keatley is only starting because he needs to be developed and he'll come back and play above galactic standards for the rest of the year.

Tbh, I think he could well be the difference between Munster and Ulster next week, but I think all of that impact will emanate from the area between his right ankle and the studs on his right boot.

danthefan

Teferi wrote: »

They wouldn't agree and just kept commenting on his "control of the game". I'm not entirely sure they know what that means and that it has scope outside of his fantastic boot.

Excellent point. All the rubbish during the RWC about how he controlled the games, yet there never seems to be an explanation of how this supposed control manifested itself on the pitch. It's an easy cliche trotted out by pundits that some supporters latch onto. ROG is a poor rugby player now. He is hanging on by reputation.

Fishooks12

irishbucsfan wrote: »

He really wasn't. His form in the games he "saved" was very poor. His kicking for goal is as good as ever but the rest of his game has dropped away. Watch the Northampton game again or the Castres game, for the first 79 minutes his performance was fairly similar to last night's, then he drops back in the pocket and slots a drop goal and everyone claims he was brilliant.

Munster limped across the line in both those game. The first one was 40 phases of the most blind and ignorant refereeing of an offensive team in the history of the Heineken Cup (no guesses which home-town specialist ref that was) and the second was a very special win Castres. Very special because Munster managed to struggle against a Castres team with only 4 first team players who were playing 100km away from their home town and were being boycotted by their own fans.

Now in fairness he got better between then and Christmas, but he was by no means in brilliant form and they were by no means important games. Just because he says he was playing "above international standard" in the press doesn't mean he actually was.

He has been off the pace at times this season. I actually think it would do him well to sit behind Keatley for a big game. Bring out some of that infamous competitive spirit... Maybe he'll give Conor George an interview about how Ian Keatley is only starting because he needs to be developed and he'll come back and play above galactic standards for the rest of the year.

Tbh, I think he could well be the difference between Munster and Ulster next week, but I think all of that impact will emanate from the area between his right ankle and the studs on his right boot.

I do tend to delve into hyperbole when making a point (which was that he's not in bad form despite last nights performance) but infairness ROG at his best made most his impact from his boot though!

Tox56

Dylan Hartley

My incredibly simplistic way of looking at it is basically a less eloquent way of saying what has already been said: Munster were in the positions they were, needing a late score, because ROG offers so little in attack. ROG was ice cool with the drop-goals, but a more talented fly-half would have made more effective use of the Munster backs and the scoreline would not have been so close.

As I said, it's a simplistic way of looking at it, but the Northampton game showed what is possible with the Munster backline, and perhaps another fly-half would have extracted more from it on a consistent basis.

Moflojo

Tox56 wrote: »

As I said, it's a simplistic way of looking at it, but the Northampton game showed what is possible with the Munster backline, and perhaps another fly-half would have extracted more from it on a consistent basis.

Such as Madigan? have to keep this debate going, it brings out some great opinions

ScissorPaperRock

Is there anywhere a repeat of the match can be watched? It doesn't seem to be on RTE Player.

rrpc

Dylan Hartley

Moflojo wrote: »

Such as Madigan? have to keep this debate going, it brings out some great opinions

Such as Keatley

AFAIK, Keatley has yet to start with Murray. How anyone can evaluate Keatley when he has to play with a drain is incomprehensible.

CIARAN_BOYLE

Dylan Hartley

ScissorPaperRoc wrote: »

Is there anywhere a repeat of the match can be watched? It doesn't seem to be on RTE Player.

not as yet, it will go up within a couple of days. Its was shown twice I think on setanta so far but doesn't seem to be scheduled for a repeat.

danthefan

I think it can go up once Setanta does their highlights show.

.ak

I'm surprised most Munster fans don't rate Keatley. Any games I've watched him in he's been a neat footballer. Okay, so he hasn't been up against any tough opposition, but I feel he's the sort of player than needs a consistent run of games to get the best out of him. I think he links up well with the 'alternative' back three in the form of Hurley, Murphy and Zebo. Was it the Edinburgh game that the backline (including O'Dea) ran riot? People talk about Munster's lack of attacking flair... Well it was rampant on that day, and I think Keatley was key.

rrpc

Dylan Hartley

.ak wrote: »

I'm surprised most Munster fans don't rate Keatley. Any games I've watched him in he's been a neat footballer. Okay, so he hasn't been up against any tough opposition, but I feel he's the sort of player than needs a consistent run of games to get the best out of him. I think he links up well with the 'alternative' back three in the form of Hurley, Murphy and Zebo. Was it the Edinburgh game that the backline (including O'Dea) ran riot? People talk about Munster's lack of attacking flair... Well it was rampant on that day, and I think Keatley was key.

+1
Keatley is more of a gainline player (or was with Connacht). Getting slow shovelled ball really stifles his creativity and makes him look ordinary. Remember how poor Sexton looked last year with TOL as SH? And how good he looked when he started with Reddan against England?

.ak

rrpc wrote: »

+1
Keatley is more of a gainline player (or was with Connacht). Getting slow shovelled ball really stifles his creativity and makes him look ordinary. Remember how poor Sexton looked last year with TOL as SH? And how good he looked when he started with Reddan against England?

Yes, now that you mention it I think it was Williams at SH with him in that game.. It's all making sense now.

Fireball07

Leinster

rrpc wrote: »

+1
Keatley is more of a gainline player (or was with Connacht). Getting slow shovelled ball really stifles his creativity and makes him look ordinary. Remember how poor Sexton looked last year with TOL as SH? And how good he looked when he started with Reddan against England?

I'd go along with this.

I think calling TOL 'a drain' is a bit harsh but Keatley should be given a go alongside someone giving him quick ball. Stringer will be back next year, and although his overall passing isn't as good as it used to be, it's still very quick.

rrpc

Dylan Hartley

Fireball07 wrote: »

I'd go along with this.

I think calling TOL 'a drain' is a bit harsh but Keatley should be given a go alongside someone giving him quick ball. Stringer will be back next year, and although his overall passing isn't as good as it used to be, it's still very quick.

Apologies, you're right, it is a bit harsh. But OTOH, letting the OH take the blame when it's a joint effort is also harsh. People are lauding (quite rightly) Madigan on this thread, but look at the service he gets from Boss and Reddan...

.ak

Also am I the only one who thought SOB was impressive? His impact was key, and was making his presence known in a big way, was completely niggily and was really getting under players skin. Everytime I saw a breakdown from my seat you could see a that green scrumcap hurtling into every breakdown. Perhaps a statement for selection?

Gordon Gecko

Dylan Hartley

I don't think Keatley's been given a fair crack of the whip at all in Munster. Even the best players take time to adapt. Keatley's still young and developing as a player, and the change in style from Connacht to Munster would be difficult for even the classiest fly half. Hopefully he gets a good run of a few games and ROG moves to the NFL :pac:

Podge_irl

Looking back on it again, I'm pretty sure Luke was in play when he passed the ball back to Kearney for the try around the 30 minute mark.

Podge_irl

Also, watching the game back again, I have no doubt I'm banging a drum that has been beaten already but the whole "you have to let him up" nonsense was exceptionally infuriating. Commentators should know better, especially when the ref explains it clearly over the ref mike.

tolosenc

Podge_irl wrote: »

Also, watching the game back again, I have no doubt I'm banging a drum that has been beaten already but the whole "you have to let him up" nonsense was exceptionally infuriating. Commentators should know better, especially when the ref explains it clearly over the ref mike.

I'm convinced they don't get the mic feed that we do, because RTEs commentators consistently haven't a clue what's going on even after the ref has explained it.

dougieruggie

Was it just me or was the commentary and pundity after completely biased towards Munster? I just want a little objectiveness on a station that should be representing both teams.

bamboozle

Dylan Hartley

first half was awful to watch, once the teams were down to 14 and there was a wee bit more space on the field leinster started to move the ball better and more successfully, both teams needed a tough game pre HC quarter finals, no major injuries either. thought Nacewa was head and shoulders above all, Luke fitz was excellent, Leinster backs looked far more dangerous with McF at 12, Madigan looked very comfortable when he came on, as anticipated a far weaker munster 22 wasnt able to keep up. thought Sherry looked good when he came on. Munster backs offered nothing.

phog

Very disappointing game from a Munster perspective, the few positives seem to be the scoreline, holding Leinster tryless, our defence, Dave O'C getting decent gametime against a top team, hopefully, coming through without suffering more injuries. It was a hard game to watch with all the stop/starts especially around scrum time.

In the end the scoreline probably flattered us and the subs bench made all the difference.

At one stage the big screen showed POC, Niall Ronan and Leamy and I thought if they were only on the bench instead of in civies, maybe we'd have had a chance.

danthefan

dougieruggie wrote: »

Was it just me or was the commentary and pundity after completely biased towards Munster? I just want a little objectiveness on a station that should be representing both teams.

The commentary certainly was. Thought the panel were a bit better, like they highlighted the fact the problem with the scrum was Horan for example.