New York Giants Thread

wawaman

Payton staying in New Orleans

Knex*

glued wrote: »

This is the major issue for me. People just look at stats and not the tape. If you think we utilised Vereen this year then that's your judgement, one I completely disagree with. You're also not comparing like to like.

Tbf im not sure how you can support McAdoo for a HC role when he's not exactly been a good coordinator. His offense has zero rhythm and is too rigid. What has he done to deserve a shot? McAdoo and Reese would be an absolute disaster.

And don't take this the wrong way but you also support Reese so I'm not sure we're going to agree on much except that we both hope that the Giants do well. If he's appointed head coach then I wish him all the best but there are far better candidates out there.

I think McAdoo has done a decent job but I'm scratching my head trying to find out where all this praise is coming from. I really think some people need to go back and look at the tape. If I have time I'll try and highlight exactly what annoys me about McAdoo offense.

If you think McAdoo's offense is rigid, what is an example of offense that isn't?

McAdoo has done a stellar job, to be fair. Saying its been merely decent when you look at what he had to work with, is an injustice.

If you offered me the numbers of the last two seasons prior to his appointment, I'd have taken your hand off, as would any Giant fan.

On Vereen, I'm not sure what you can expect. You see he has been used more than ever before, yet you say its not enough. He also had his chances to help us win games but had some big drops, and also that INT that bounced off his hands.

Thankfully, we'll have another year with him next year, and he should be in good shape, without having being burnt out. He's a small back too, you can't give him the ball 20+ times a game without asking for trouble.

You keep discussing McAdoo, but I'm interested more in what you think Gase brings to the table. Why you believe that what he has achieved makes him the superior choice. He has three years an OC under Fox, to McAdoo's two under Coughlin.

I must say, for me, I don't see enough of a difference to uproot a system we already have in place, and make our 35 year old QB learn yet another system, footwork, etc.

I will say, I don't know enough about the man himself, or exactly what McAdoo is like either, to determine which character might be better suited for a HC role. Be very hard to follow Coughlin in that regard, if nearly impossible.

The Reese thing is for another day, really. I think his last three drafts have saved him, and he's been with the Giants a long, long time, even overseeing two Super Bowl drafts. I am annoyed at how the press conference was handled by him and Mara the other day, when discussing his role, however.

Son Of A Vidic

I just thought I'd pop into the thread to show my respect and admiration for the great Coach Coughlin. Imo, he will walk into the HOF and be remembered as one of the all time great NFL coaches. I really pity the man who has to follow him, because he has to try and fill the shoes of a giant.

krustydoyle

So the Bucs sacked Lovie Smith

Wouldn't be the worst option available for me

Knex*

krustydoyle wrote: »

So the Bucs sacked Lovie Smith

Wouldn't be the worst option available for me

Can see some similarities with his Bears reign, to Coughlin and the Jags, so wouldn't be surprised if he had an interview, at the least.

His Buccs tenure, going 8-24, would worry me a little.

wawaman

Knex. wrote: »

Can see some similarities with his Bears reign, to Coughlin and the Jags, so wouldn't be surprised if he had an interview, at the least.

His Buccs tenure, going 8-24, would worry me a little.

The Bucs had their own Cough-lapse in December, he would fit right in !!!!

Knex*

Eagles offered Gase the HC position, apparently. Not sure on source credibility, however.

https://twitter.com/DarrenDegaetano/status/684896377147625472

glued

Knex. wrote: »

If you think McAdoo's offense is rigid, what is an example of offense that isn't?

McAdoo has done a stellar job, to be fair. Saying its been merely decent when you look at what he had to work with, is an injustice.

If you offered me the numbers of the last two seasons prior to his appointment, I'd have taken your hand off, as would any Giant fan.

On Vereen, I'm not sure what you can expect. You see he has been used more than ever before, yet you say its not enough. He also had his chances to help us win games but had some big drops, and also that INT that bounced off his hands.

Thankfully, we'll have another year with him next year, and he should be in good shape, without having being burnt out. He's a small back too, you can't give him the ball 20+ times a game without asking for trouble.

You keep discussing McAdoo, but I'm interested more in what you think Gase brings to the table. Why you believe that what he has achieved makes him the superior choice. He has three years an OC under Fox, to McAdoo's two under Coughlin.

I must say, for me, I don't see enough of a difference to uproot a system we already have in place, and make our 35 year old QB learn yet another system, footwork, etc.

I will say, I don't know enough about the man himself, or exactly what McAdoo is like either, to determine which character might be better suited for a HC role. Be very hard to follow Coughlin in that regard, if nearly impossible.

The Reese thing is for another day, really. I think his last three drafts have saved him, and he's been with the Giants a long, long time, even overseeing two Super Bowl drafts. I am annoyed at how the press conference was handled by him and Mara the other day, when discussing his role, however.

I just think Gase is a better OC. I wouldn't replace McAdoo with Gase though as OC as uprooting the system at this point would be fairly pointless exercise considering how well Eli and McAdoo get along. There is certainly a stronger argument to appoint McAdoo over Gase but that comes down to familiarity. We showed a real lack of leadership all year and the failure of the coaches to control ODB that day was a real stand out moment in the season for me. McAdoo didn't step up and take control of the situation. That's not exactly inspiring.

I expected a lot more from Vereen and would expect him to have a much larger role this year. Now maybe it's the OL, but I would have definitely expected him to have a bigger role than he did in NE but that hasn't happened. McAdoo definitely has underused him.

In terms of Reese, I'm shocked he is still the GM but he is. He really needs to turn around this roster in the offseason. I'd expect some big moves as the NY Press and fans have really turned against him. He's on thin ice so I'd expect him to be quite aggressive this offseason.

He has a lot of work; OL, DT, DE, S, CB, LB, WR etc. Luckily we have a bit of cap room to work with!

Knex*

So Beckham can rap as well. Even while clearly hammered :pac:

https://instagram.com/p/BANzo-Hqw5F

https://instagram.com/p/BANzutVKw5S

HigginsJ

So here is a list of our potential free agents. What would you guys do. I know until a new HC is named it is hard to say for sure but some big decisions need to be made.

PLAYER (20) POS. AGE 2015 CAP HIT
Jason Pierre-Paul DE 27 $7,350,000
Prince Amukamara CB 26 $6,898,000
Robert Ayers DE 30 $2,437,500
Cullen Jenkins DE 34 $2,091,668
Trumaine McBride CB 30 $1,550,000
Josh Brown K 36 $1,350,000
Zak DeOssie LS 31 $1,200,000
George Selvie DE 28 $1,200,000
Rueben Randle WR 24 $1,047,432
Jayron Hosley CB 25 $796,250
Brandon Mosley G 27 $735,146
Dallas Reynolds G 31 $700,000
Markus Kuhn DT 29 $671,474
Daniel Fells TE 32 $665,000
Craig Dahl SS 30 $585,000
Jasper Brinkley ILB 30 $585,000
Hakeem Nicks WR 27 $240,882
Danny Aiken LS 27 $137,647
Barry Cofield DT 31 $103,235
Brandon Meriweather SS

The obvious big 4 are JPP, Prince, Robert Ayers & Rueben Randle.

JPP played really well when he came back but his hand/club really prevented him from making some big plays. He is due another surgery on it and I don't think you can make an accurate call until we see him on the pitch so the contract will be a real shot in the dark. If he would agree to a 1 year prove it deal then great, if not I would max offer him 4 years $30 million with $14 guaranteed. This would put him just outside the top 10 DE's in football.

Prince is a tough one for me, he has played pretty well but never became the lockdown corner you would have hoped for. He has also had a lot of injuries. Obviously we are not stacked at corner do we probably need to bring him back but I wouldnt go crazy with his contract.

Think we have to bring back Robert Ayers. Something like a 2 year, $12 million deal should get it done.

Finally onto Randle. There are games you think, yes this guy is a high end No. 2 WR, there are other days where he looks lost. He has not really developed any consistency, doesn't show great chemistry or understanding with Eli. I would probably keep him but on a small 2 year, $6 (or $7)million with very little guaranteed money.

Knex*

I want Brinkley and Brown back as well, tbh.

HigginsJ

The other 2 big decisions then are Victor Cruz & Jon Beason.

Well to be honest Beason isn't a big decision, he has a $6 million cap hit and we save $4.5 million by cutting him so he has to be cut. If he wanted to come back on a vet minimum to mentor younger lb's and depth then I'd love him back.

Onto Victor Cruz then, he is due $10 million next year and we save over $6 million cutting him. Now I wouldn't do anything as rash as cutting him but we are also not paying him $10 million next year. Restricting him to a new (possibly incentive laden) deal has to be the way forward. We should still be able to make a nice saving to the cap by doing this.

One other player who may come under the microscope is Will Beatty. He has a $9.1 million cap hit next year and there is over a $4 million saving by cutting him. The decision on Beatty really comes down to Ereck Flowers. I was delighted that we drafted him but didn't think he would be ready for LT for maybe 2 years. Sure he had plenty of growing pains this year but I think he showed more than enough this year to make me confident that we should role with him at LT long term. That would likely move Beatty over to RT & you are not paying a RT over $9 million. If he agreed to a restructure we could again save a bit more money and be set at 4 positions on the o-line with LT Flowers, LG Pugh, C Richburg & RT Beatty.

HigginsJ

Knex. wrote: »

I want Brinkley and Brown back as well, tbh.

Yea think they should be back alright, I'd also probably bring back Kuhn for depth.

Where do you stand on JPP, Prince, Ayers & Randle?

glued

Yeah Prince is really going to be a tough one. A couple of reports were suggesting that we were going to offer him a pretty crappy deal. I wouldn't be too pushed on keeping him. Someone else will probably offer more money than us and I definitely don't want to overpay for an injury prone DB.

I hope JPP will take a short term deal to prove his worth. His hand is definitely affecting his play but hopefully he can become more productive with the second surgery. He's definitely still productive enough to get a decent deal.

Knex*

HigginsJ wrote: »

Yea think they should be back alright, I'd also probably bring back Kuhn for depth.

Where do you stand on JPP, Prince, Ayers & Randle?

Pretty similar to you, for sure.

I wouldn't be upset if Randle was left go, however. His knees are shot, let alone his attitude towards the game, although how much that comes down to the tendinitis, I don't know.

We'll need to add a receiver in FA or the draft then, however. Unless they still think Soup Harris can play. He's have made the 53 last year if not for injury.

As for Cruz and Beatty, I think they both need a restructuring, and I'd expect Reese to be quite forceful about that. Cruz gets a lot of money from NY media, and after the last two years, he'll understand.

Beason must go. Super guy, just can't be relied on.

krustydoyle

Just announced that they've interviewed Lions DC Teryl Austin for the HC job

glued

Interestingly someone researched the claim that Reese was poor at drafting players in rounds 3-7. From 2007-13 Reese and the Giants ranked tied 28th with 6 perceived hits. The Patriots are also ranked tied 28th. The Seahawks are 11th with 10 hits so as you can tell the data just proves that, typically, players picked in rounds 3-7 aren't very good at lasting in the NFL. I wouldn't say that data proves anything against Reese. Most teams miss on players in rounds 3-7.

I still would prefer a new GM but part of me thinks that if Reese feels the pressure he will be far more aggressive in free agency and the draft. I'm sure Mara and Tisch are well aware of the fans feelings and have told Reese that he needs to improve this roster now. His press conference was hardly inspiring but surely he realises that he hasn't much time to fix this roster.

Beefy78

I want to see Prince stay purely as we're rebuilding over so many parts of the defense that some stability at Corner has to be the preference. I think he'll want good money though.

JPP will test the market I think. If someone wants to offer him a big contract then he'll be off. I'm hopeful he stays.

Knex*

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/685253865776779264

Them interviewing McAdoo could be an attempt to force Giants hands to promote him, leaving someone like Gase free for Philly.

That's the cynic in me, however.

Beefy78

Whether he gets the Eagles job or not he is going to get an opportunity somewhere sometime soon. If the Giants go for someone else then we're going to be looking for a new OC sooner or later and I think they do realise that.

HigginsJ

Knex. wrote: »

https://twitter.com/AdamSchefter/status/685253865776779264

Them interviewing McAdoo could be an attempt to force Giants hands to promote him, leaving someone like Gase free for Philly.

That's the cynic in me, however.

I think the Eagles will offer Gase the job any day now, just doing due diligience on McAdoo I assume, making looking for some insight.

Knex*

Players' Tribune on Coughlin

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/giants-tom-coughlin-tribute-coach/

krustydoyle

Interviewing former falcons coach Mike Smith as well now

Knex*

Jesus, he was awful at the end though

wawaman

Eagles interested in interviewing Coughlin aswell

HigginsJ

wawaman wrote: »

Eagles interested in interviewing Coughlin aswell

That is very odd.

wawaman

Would you rather be a giants fan this morning having failed to make the playoffs again or a bengals fan watching them go one and done again!?

HigginsJ

wawaman wrote: »

Would you rather be a giants fan this morning having failed to make the playoffs again or a bengals fan watching them go one and done again!?

I'd rather be one & done again, they are so very close to winning a Super Bowl. Easily one of the top 3 best rosters in the NFL. By all accounts Marvin Lewis is going to be under some pressure in the coming days as IMO even with McCarron at the helm they should have comfortably won that game.

KrustyUCC

Playoffs is always preferable to being disinterested in them

All the bengals needed to do was hold onto the ball at the end of the game or else keep their composure

Horrible way to lose a game

KrustyUCC

New coach by the end of the week?

http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2016/01/giants_hope_to_have_new_head_coach_by_end_of_this.html