New York Giants Thread

KrustyUCC

yeah that's right

forgot games were in Twickenham

krustydoyle

Well as it is we have the 10th pick of the draft

Knex*

krustydoyle wrote: »

Well as it is we have the 10th pick of the draft

Definitely good enough to get an elite defensive player.

HigginsJ

Knex. wrote: »

Definitely good enough to get an elite defensive player.

Another loss and a shot at Joey Bosa wouldn't hurt

Knex*

I'd love for us to go out and grab Tashaun Gipson, similar to how we did with Rolle a few years back. Tie up the FS position, let Collins make his plays at SS. We'll see then how our depth plays out with Mykkele Thompson, Behre, and that CB who was moved to Safety, who's name completely escapes me.

Resign Prince on a prove it deal, JPP too. Robert Ayers could well be kept for veteran presence, too. Then that allows us to commit to DLine in the 1st, and hopefully linebacker in the 2nd.

Depending on how high they are on Owa, I can see them having a preference in going DT in the first, although I'm not familiar with the draft class at all yet. Jenkins is old, Kuhn horrific, and Bromley situational. We need another body beside Hank the Tank.

We lack in depth, but its hard to say where we would be if we weren't so constantly crippled with injuries. I don't think we're that many players away from the playoffs, however.

KrustyUCC

I think TC will retire at year end but that Reese will survive

Poor drafting is the nub of our problems

We have SFA from a lot of drafts

I don't trust Reese to improve

"Reese? The job done by his staff is just as much if not more to blame for the debacles of the last four years.

Oh, sure, he’s managed the cap well enough to where, according to Over the Cap, the Giants are projected to have upwards of $37 million, a total that could grow to more than $50 million if the inflated contracts such as those held by offensive lineman Will Beatty, linebacker Jon Beason and offensive lineman Geoff Schwartz are removed from the books.

Still, here’s a rather unsettling fact to chew on: Of their seven draft picks in the 2012 class, only two—defensive tackle Markus Kuhn (now on injured reserve) and receiver Rueben Randle—remain on the current roster.

Both of those two will be unrestricted free agents with little to no chance of being re-signed, meaning that an entire draft class chosen just four short years ago, a class that should have been coming into its prime this season, is on the verge of officially being a complete bust.

Want more unsettling facts? How about with an opening at receiver the fact that sixth-round draft pick Geremy Davis didn't get a game-day uniform ahead of undrafted free agent Ben Edwards, who was just signed from the practice squad this week, or that third-round pick Jay Bromley finally cracked into the starting lineup only because Kuhn, the seventh-round pick, landed on injured reserve this past week?

Still not convinced that a change needs to be made at the front office? Since 2010, the Giants have 18 draft picks that were selected in rounds one through three, the rounds where teams usually find their starters.

Two of their first-round picks, defensive end Jason Pierre-Paul and cornerback Prince Amukamara, are both coming to the end of their respective contracts, neither really convincing anyone that they’re worth big money.

In the second round, two players, defensive tackle Linval Joseph and DE Marvin Austin, are no longer on the team, with Randle sure to follow them after this year.

In the third round, only ONE player, Bromley, has been active for this team, with cornerback Jayron Hosley a healthy scratch the last two weeks, defensive end Damontre Moore cut for maturity issues and defensive end Owa Odighizuwa spending most of his rookie season injured.

Yes, there’s Beckham and left tackle Ereck Flowers, but there are far more misses than hits in the draft, and it is beyond logic how any argument of stability can be used to justify keeping the front office intact when in fact the player personnel selections have created so much instability on the roster these last several years.

Change can be scary given the unknowns, but given the pattern that has emerged of late, can it be any worse?

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2602952-ny-giants-49-17-loss-vs-minnesota-vikings-likely-seals-fate-of-reese-coughlin

Knex*

2012 was a dreadful year for most teams. Giants did about average even coming away with Randle and Kuhn, as bad as that sounds.

I'm not against Reese leaving or staying, tbh.

wawaman

A win on sunday will give the "reward" of a trip to Seattle next year

HigginsJ

Knex. wrote: »

2012 was a dreadful year for most teams. Giants did about average even coming away with Randle and Kuhn, as bad as that sounds.

I'm not against Reese leaving or staying, tbh.

I'd rather he leave just to fully clean house. Have seen ESPN & CBS reporting that McAdoo would be promoted to HC if Coughlin is done. In terms of GM I'm sure we would have our pick (top 10 Ðraft pick, Eli, OBJ, tonnes of cap room) but of the guys I have read about I would want DaCosta from Baltimore (& let him pick his own HC)

If we went with someone from college for HC then Shaw from Stanford would be the obvious pick.

Knex*

I like the idea of DaCosta. If I thought he was even on the cards, I'd definitely be on board with getting rid of Reese and cleaning house, tbh.

Only issue with McAdoo leaving is making Eli change system again. He's four years left in his prime, and just went through a huge offensive change, where he relearnt his feet patterns and timing, etc, and had two great years. I don't want him going through that again when we know this system really suits him.

I don't see Mara letting that happen either, tbh.

KrustyUCC

I really doubt we promote McAdoo

This was his first OC gig and has been here 2 years

We have a good passing game but 0 run and also very little trickery

He has never been a HC

Surely we would want someone with experience?

HigginsJ

KrustyUCC wrote: »

I really doubt we promote McAdoo

This was his first OC gig and has been here 2 years

We have a good passing game but 0 run and also very little trickery

He has never been a HC

Surely we would want someone with experience?

From reading up one things if we don't promote McAdoo someone else will give him a shot. Also heard Sean Payton would be an option, that would be good if his last 2 seasons weren't so horrible in Norleans.

Knex*

Biggest issue against McAdoo's run game was the bizarre running back by committee crap we did until recent weeks. And I wonder if that's not on Coughlin?

Andre Williams need to be cut. Not an NFL player. Infuriating when you see how Jennings performs when given consistent carries.

Beefy78

The running back thing just baffles me. Jennings, as you said, is a perfectly serviceable back if given carries but even Williams I think would have done better than he has if he was 'the guy'. Bringing guys in and out every series made all four look terrible.

I'm not defending Williams, btw. I die inside a little every time I see him on the field, but it is just common sense that any running back will improve the more snaps he is out there to get a feel for the defense and see where the holes are.

HigginsJ

Knex. wrote: »

Biggest issue against McAdoo's run game was the bizarre running back by committee crap we did until recent weeks. And I wonder if that's not on Coughlin?

Andre Williams need to be cut. Not an NFL player. Infuriating when you see how Jennings performs when given consistent carries.

Beefy78 wrote: »

The running back thing just baffles me. Jennings, as you said, is a perfectly serviceable back if given carries but even Williams I think would have done better than he has if he was 'the guy'. Bringing guys in and out every series made all four look terrible.

I'm not defending Williams, btw. I die inside a little every time I see him on the field, but it is just common sense that any running back will improve the more snaps he is out there to get a feel for the defense and see where the holes are.

In terms of Williams that has to be on TC, we all know his affection for a BC product. He is utterly awful, he should be gone after the season. Jennings is indeed a serviceable back but I worry what would happen if you asked him to try 15 carries a game for a season, I highly doubt he would make it through the season. I'd nearly make a move to release him (contract permitting)

Darkwa looks the part anytime I see him but it would be take a lot of confidence to have him as your lead back to start next year.

Vereen is an outstanding player, one of the best pass catching backs around IMO so we don't need a do everything RB.

In the upcoming draft the pickings are pretty slim. In the doubtful scenario that Derrick Henry is there when we are on the clock in the 2nd round then I would be happy to take him and pair him with Vereen for a real 1-2 punch with Darkwa in relief.

In terms of free agent RB's, Doug Martin would be top but he is staying put. Lamar Miller from Miami and Alfred Morris from the Skins would have to be worth a look as lead backs if they hit the market.

Beefy78

Williams had four games at the end of last season when Jennings was out in which he ran for 328 yards total including two 100 yard games. That was behind a pretty terrible line. He is not good by any stretch of the imagination but if you put any half decent back in and let them know they're the main man then they should be able to get you something.

Our production at running back this year has been horrible and it is the fault of the system, IMO.

HigginsJ

Was taking a look at Eli's stats over the last year and this under McAdoo. They are ridiculously similar and by this I mean some of them are identical.

2014 Completion Percentage: 63.1%
2015 Completion Percentage: 63.1%

2014 Yards Per Game: 275.6
2015 Yards Per Game: 275.6

He has also set a career high with 33 TD's (2 year in a row of over 30) and looks set for a career high passer rating of 93.6. He clearly is thriving in McAdoo's offence. Can you imagine what he could do if Cruz had been around and we had a healthy o-line.

Beefy78

And a running attack. Eli loves the play action.

HigginsJ

Beefy78 wrote: »

And a running attack. Eli loves the play action.

Killdrive loved play action, god you'd miss the folllowing series on O.

1st & 10 - RB gain for 1 yard
2nd & 9 - Play action pass 40 yard to Hakeem Nicks - Incomplete
3rd & 9 - Draw play for 2 yards
4th & 7 - Punt

Ah good times!!

glued

Knex. wrote: »

2012 was a dreadful year for most teams. Giants did about average even coming away with Randle and Kuhn, as bad as that sounds.

I'm not against Reese leaving or staying, tbh.

Not sure how you can't be against Reese. We've the worst drafting record over the past five years in the league and his FA record isn't exactly great either.

glued

HigginsJ wrote: »

Was taking a look at Eli's stats over the last year and this under McAdoo. They are ridiculously similar and by this I mean some of them are identical.

2014 Completion Percentage: 63.1%
2015 Completion Percentage: 63.1%

2014 Yards Per Game: 275.6
2015 Yards Per Game: 275.6

He has also set a career high with 33 TD's (2 year in a row of over 30) and looks set for a career high passer rating of 93.6. He clearly is thriving in McAdoo's offence. Can you imagine what he could do if Cruz had been around and we had a healthy o-line.

I think McAdoo is overrated and his offense is solely limited to the function of ODB. Where has Vereen been all year? He's failed to open up the offense. He's better than Gilbride but I definitely think he's an extremely limited play caller. It's either throw it to Beckham or use Beckham to draw coverage. I'd really like to see him expand the playbook next year and get Vereen involved way more. We're never going to win anything relying on ODB to make freakish catches all season.

HigginsJ

glued wrote: »

I think McAdoo is overrated and his offense is solely limited to the function of ODB. Where has Vereen been all year? He's failed to open up the offense. He's better than Gilbride but I definitely think he's an extremely limited play caller. It's either throw it to Beckham or use Beckham to draw coverage. I'd really like to see him expand the playbook next year and get Vereen involved way more. We're never going to win anything relying on ODB to make freakish catches all season.

To be fair it's pretty much ODJ or bust on O. Randle is poor & the rest of the WR's/TE's are nothing more than depth players, Cruz is obviously a huge loss. In terms of Vereen I agree we could use him more but he does have over 50 catches this season to date.

wawaman

glued wrote: »

I think McAdoo is overrated and his offense is solely limited to the function of ODB. Where has Vereen been all year? He's failed to open up the offense. He's better than Gilbride but I definitely think he's an extremely limited play caller. It's either throw it to Beckham or use Beckham to draw coverage. I'd really like to see him expand the playbook next year and get Vereen involved way more. We're never going to win anything relying on ODB to make freakish catches all season.

I agree with you but I really can't see the Giants getting rid of HC, GM & OC in the one year (even if it's warranted). If you rip up and start from scratch again you might get lucky straight away or more likely waiting a couple of years for Eli to get the hang of things again, when in reality he doesn't have the time left in his prime to keep doing that

glued

TC to resign on Monday. Best of luck to him.

HigginsJ

glued wrote: »

TC to resign on Monday. Best of luck to him.

Will be a HOF coach no doubt for his work with us & the Jags as well.

Knex*

That's not confirmed, still very much rumour, so hopefully we find out more after the game tomorrow.

glued

Knex. wrote: »

That's not confirmed, still very much rumour, so hopefully we find out more after the game tomorrow.

Well it does make sense and follows the rumours of Tisch and Mara not agreeing over his future. It would also follow the expectation that he is allowed leave 'on his own terms'.

I really hope Reese goes too. He's proven at this stage to be poor at drafting players. We have the worst record drafting over the past 5 years. He never gets anything out of the late rounds and has too many misses in the draft. A lot of NY fans are fed up of the way JR sets us up each year. He's neglected TE and LB for far too long. He left the OL in an awful way for a couple of seasons in a row and he's never corrected it despite numerous attempts in recent years. He's had a bit of bad luck too. Hankins left because of the anticipation of JPP getting a monster deal who then went on to destroy his hand. Cruz getting injured didn't help and it looks now as if he might not get back in Blue if some rumours are to be believed. Then you have Beatty getting injured all the time after locking him up and when he's not injured he hasn't played that well.

Without ODB this team would have been finished a lot sooner. You can't hang everything on Reese but we have massive deficiencies in the roster and always seemed to be in transition under Reese. We need a GM that can draft and pick up talent in the later rounds. His drafting has been unforgivable tbh.

HigginsJ

glued wrote: »

Well it does make sense and follows the rumours of Tisch and Mara not agreeing over his future. It would also follow the expectation that he is allowed leave 'on his own terms'.

I really hope Reese goes too. He's proven at this stage to be poor at drafting players. We have the worst record drafting over the past 5 years. He never gets anything out of the late rounds and has too many misses in the draft. A lot of NY fans are fed up of the way JR sets us up each year. He's neglected TE and LB for far too long. He left the OL in an awful way for a couple of seasons in a row and he's never corrected it despite numerous attempts in recent years. He's had a bit of bad luck too. Hankins left because of the anticipation of JPP getting a monster deal who then went on to destroy his hand. Cruz getting injured didn't help and it looks now as if he might not get back in Blue if some rumours are to be believed. Then you have Beatty getting injured all the time after locking him up and when he's not injured he hasn't played that well.

Without ODB this team would have been finished a lot sooner. You can't hang everything on Reese but we have massive deficiencies in the roster and always seemed to be in transition under Reese. We need a GM that can draft and pick up talent in the later rounds. His drafting has been unforgivable tbh.

I think Reese should go too but those in the know think he is going no where.

wawaman

Mixed feelings about tomorrow. Last game of the year for the Giants for me is a bit sad because I won't see them again for 9 months but my god this year has been hard going and will be glad it's over

krustydoyle

Well thank god that's over.. Many heads on here head to Twickenham for the Rams game next year??