How much should be spent on Irish?

deise go deo

When ever there is a thread on the Irish language it does'nt take long before someone comes along talking about how much is wasted by the government on it, what do you think, the state should spend more or less on Irish?

AngryBollix

Jacksh1t.

Time to pull the plug

Logical Fallacy

Personally I find it a little bit sad that we had so many foreign invaders trying to stamp out our language and culture.

All they had to do was give us a bit of comfort and we'd have reached the conclusion that it was pointless and boring and do it ourselves.

Poor English Empire, so much wasted effort when all they needed was patience.

starbelgrade

A ceathair a punt.

im invisible

starbelgrade wrote: »

A ceathair a punt.

tri caoga

Mr Benevolent

Nothing, let it die a natural death.

AngryBollix

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Personally I find it a little bit sad that we had so many foreign invaders trying to stamp out our language and culture.

All they had to do was give us a bit of comfort and we'd have reached the conclusion that it was pointless and boring and do it ourselves.

Poor English Empire, so much wasted effort when all they needed was patience.

They did a superb Job.

admiralofthefleet

over 9000

seantorious

Confab wrote: »

Nothing, let it die a natural death.

Like this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34a3ahZqEAg

Nichts, müssen Sie Ihr Geld nach Deutschland geben

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar

people can spend as much of their own money learning and promoting irish as they want, that's great and is to be admired. **** off with public funds though.

Rented Mule

€45 million in bailout money.

Oh wait ....you're talking about the language.

starviewadams

€0.00

The money should be spent on a useful language,if people want to learn the language in their own time then more power to them.Shouldn't be wasting time/money forcing children to learn it in school.

lividduck

Same OP same old whinge, demanding that someone else pay for their hobby, in this case, a now largely dead makkey uppy lingo!
Your money, spend it as you like, my tax on a dead language...eh that would be a NO

Traonach

Irish is part of our heritage and culture, it needs to be protected. Money has to be spent on it.

My name is URL

Here, look.. I amn't stupid enough to want to speak Irish or do certain types of maths.. so there's at least 7 reasons that Irish should be banned.

Logical Fallacy

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar wrote: »

people can spend as much of their own money learning and promoting irish as they want, that's great and is to be admired. **** off with public funds though.

Sometimes you need to think a little bit deeper than that though, so do you mind me asking why you don't think it's worth being publicly funded?

Traonach

lividduck wrote: »

Same OP same old whinge, demanding that someone else pay for their hobby, in this case, a now largely dead makkey uppy lingo!
Your money, spend it as you like, my tax on a dead language...eh that would be a NO

Can you speak Irish?

lividduck

Traonach wrote: »

Can you speak Irish?

Nope, I cant speak dodo either , in fact I dont speak or wish to fund any dead meaningless languages, (though I have considered esperanto!)

dirtyden

Traonach wrote: »

Irish is part of our heritage and culture, it needs to be protected. Money has to be spent on it.

I would spend much less than is spent now.

It is part of our heritage but I cannot see a reason for compulsory classes in our schools. What possible purpose does that serve? Or the fact that every official document must be available in Irish. It is no longer a language that serves any purpose in modern everyday life. Some funding should be available to preserve the language but as part of our heritage not as a compulsory school subject and official state language.

lividduck

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Sometimes you need to think a little bit deeper than that though, so do you mind me asking why you don't think it's worth being publicly funded?

Eh..why should it be?

The King of Moo

lividduck wrote: »

Same OP same old whinge, demanding that someone else pay for their hobby, in this case, a now largely dead makkey uppy lingo!
Your money, spend it as you like, my tax on a dead language...eh that would be a NO

As opposed to natural, organic languages which grow from the ground?

I think we should pay for it to be taught properly in primary school, compulsory for all except those with legitimate grounds for exemptions. All children can and should learn a second language for a variety of reasons, and Irish has a strong presence in this country (TV and radio stations, street signs) so it's a logical choice.
It should then be optional in secondary school.
I stress that it should be taught properly: with children giving a good grounding in the basics, long before doing proverbs and literature and such, and it should be made fun and interesting.

I'm not sure if that would cost more or less than however much is spent on the language now.

Superbus

As someone with a near 3 and a 1/2 hour Irish exam on terrible poetry and depressing short stories tomorrow morning, I would say as little as possible.

Traonach

lividduck wrote: »

Nope, I cant speak dodo either , in fact I dont speak or wish to fund any dead meaningless languages, (though I have considered esperanto!)

If you can't speak Irish then you can't go making comments like,

a now largely dead makkey uppy lingo!

That's a retarded statement to make considering you can't speak Irish.

my tax on a dead language

People still speak Irish (myself included although I'm not fully fluent), so it's far from a dead language.

FoxT

There are a few thousand languages in the world today.

Hundreds of languages have already become extinct, and no new languages are being created, so the number of languages in use is falling.

Irish is not at all special in that context, and this has essentially been recognised by successive governments since the foundation of the state. All have paid lip service to it for political reasons, but none have made any real difference.

I think the overall level of spending should be reduced, starting with making it optional for the Leaving Cert.

Ultimately, society stands to benefit more if the money is spent elsewhere.

Napper Hawkins

Traonach wrote: »

Irish is part of our heritage and culture, it needs to be protected. Money has to be spent on it.

Irish is a part of your heritage and your culture, so protect it all you want but make sure you spend your money on it, not mine.

How do you people not understand that this 'our' BS is exactly what has contributed greatly to the slow, pathetic death of this language?

Show some respect to those of us who are no less Irish than you just because we don't view our country and heritage in the way you think we should and who knows? Maybe Irish may still have a chance to survive.

But the state should not be funding hobbies.

dirtyden

Logical Fallacy wrote: »

Sometimes you need to think a little bit deeper than that though, so do you mind me asking why you don't think it's worth being publicly funded?

I think the reverse is the more pertinent question. Why should it be publicly funded.

I believe it should be but not as it is currently. Compulsory schooling, offical state status, road signs etc. Spend the money on maintaining the language at an academic level and as part of our heritage, perhaps some classes in primary school as an earlier poster mentioned, after that if you are interested its up to you. I would not have TG4 or radio na gaeltachta either.

lividduck

Traonach wrote: »

If you can't speak Irish then you can't go making comments like,
That's a retarded statement to make considering you can't speak Irish.

People still speak Irish (myself included although I'm not fully fluent), so it's far from a dead language.

firstly , if you have to rely on personally abusive sniping, then you have already lost.
Secondly, if Irish is so popular and so widely spoken then why are you posting in English? Could it be that only a few hobbyists like yourself would understand the post?
State spending on a second language should be restricted to a modern European language such as French,German,Russian , or Spanish...not some hobby lingo of a couple of thousand people in disparate areas of Ireland who cant even understand each others dialects!

Traonach

Napper Hawkins wrote: »

Show some respect to those of us who are no less Irish than you just because we don't view our country and heritage in the way you think we should and who knows? Maybe Irish may still have a chance to survive.

.

If you hold that view you are less Irish than me:cool:

Doc Ruby

More than is spent on the damn banks.

lividduck

Traonach wrote: »

Irish is part of our heritage and culture, it needs to be protected. Money has to be spent on it.

really? Well Incest, Clerical sex abuse, Magdelan launderies and Letterfrack are also part of our history and heritage..how much would you demand we spend on restoring them?

Napper Hawkins

Traonach wrote: »

If you hold that view you are less Irish than me:cool:

Thanks for proving me right and doing your case zero favours.

Doc Ruby

lividduck wrote: »

Incest ... also part of our history and heritage.

What the fuck.

Traonach

lividduck wrote: »

really? Well Incest, Clerical sex abuse, Magdelan launderies and Letterfrack are also part of our history and heritage..how much would you demand we spend on restoring them?

More retarded comments..........

lividduck

Traonach wrote: »

More retarded comments..........

Actually more intelligent arguement which, since you cannot rebut, you choose to just attack the poster.
still waiting to hear why , since you believe irish to be sooo alive, well, and relavent you are posting in English.

elliott550

What ever's been spent it hasn't done much of the language's rep abroad. I was asked in all serious yest 'Is there actually an Irish language or do you just speak English with an accent'.

Micky Dolenz

Traonach wrote: »

More retarded comments..........

Mod

Flaming = ban. Fair warning.

KeithAFC

Nothing. Let it die out in the Republic. Then we can pick it up and use it for our murals :P

Seriously though, it is a cultural thing, so some money perhaps should be spent on protecting it.

Doc Ruby

KeithAFC wrote: »

Nothing. Let it die out in the Republic. Then we can pick it up and use it for our murals :P

Seriously though, it is a cultural thing, so some money perhaps should be spent on protecting it.

Fair play Keith. Likewise I'm sure.

Logical Fallacy

lividduck wrote: »

Eh..why should it be?

Personally I believe it's important culturally, I think it's good to be able to read, comprehend and discuss works of poetry and literature in the language in wish they were written, especially if that language is the language of the native land.

I enjoy Irish personally, it's something i am trying to improve upon and I don't think it should be forced upon people given the predominance and place of English in the world but I don't see the harm in having kids learn it in school.

People will say to learn it and spend your own money on it, fair enough, but pointless to take that tactic if they are removing even the smallest chance of someone coming into contact with it.

As such, i believe there is a place where the two parties can meet with regard to budgeting for the teaching and promotion of the Irish language.

Pete_Cavan

The King of Moo wrote: »

All children can and should learn a second language for a variety of reasons, and Irish has a strong presence in this country (TV and radio stations, street signs) so it's a logical choice.

This is the point I was going to make. With the recent job announcements from Paypal and Mastercard, we are hearing how important foreign languages are becoming to getting these new jobs. This usually promts people to make comments about time wasted in school learning Irish when they could be learning another language which could get them a job. The reality is, there is no way of knowing which language will get a person a job in 15 or 20 years time. The emerging economic powerhouses now are China, India and Brazil but if you suggested 15 years ago that a child should one of the languages spoken in these countries you would have been laughed out the door. Introducing an entirely new curriculum and training enough teachers to teach these languages at primary level now is a waste of time because things may have changed dramatically by the time the first children under the new curriculum come out of school. The best option is teach a second language which will give children linguistic skills which will make it easier for them to learn more languages in the future.

Latin, despite being a truly dead language, was taught for years because it improved a persons ability to learn other languages. Short of bringing back Latin, Irish is a great language for children here to get exposure to and will make it easier to learn another language in the future (eg. Paypal announce they are hiring people with a certain language in a few months time).

And thats before we get into the cultural benefits of preserving a language that has been spoken on this island for more than a thousand years.

Traonach

lividduck wrote: »

Actually more intelligent arguement which, since you cannot rebut, you choose to just attack the poster.
still waiting to hear why , since you believe irish to be sooo alive, well, and relavent you are posting in English.

Just because I can speak Irish doesn't mean I shouldn't converse in English.

Wibbs

This is an honest question deise go deo, have you any other subject in your repertoire? Seriously? If it was any number of other topics you'd long be seen as a shiller or a sponsored mouthpiece. I'm not suggesting you are, but for god's sake D put another record on, spin it and see what the fcuk happens. Otherwise it reads like an unhealthy obsession.

deise go deo

Wibbs wrote: »

This is an honest question deise go deo, have you any other subject in your repertoire? Seriously? If it was any number of other topics you'd long be seen as a shiller or a sponsored mouthpiece. I'm not suggesting you are, but for god's sake D put another record on, spin it and see what the fcuk happens. Otherwise it reads like an unhealthy obsession.

Honnest question Wibbs, do you know the difference between playing the Ball and playing the man? You're a mod so I should hope so, I have had enough of you following me around threads trying to drag them off topic and personalise them.

KeithAFC

Wibbs wrote: »

This is an honest question deise go deo, have you any other subject in your repertoire? Seriously? If it was any number of other topics you'd long be seen as a shiller or a sponsored mouthpiece. I'm not suggesting you are, but for god's sake D put another record on, spin it and see what the fcuk happens. Otherwise it reads like an unhealthy obsession.

I do agree with this Wibbs. I can't say it is good to see posters going on about the same thing all the time. It is important to change the subject from time to time.

4zn76tysfajdxp

deise go deo wrote: »

Honnest question Wibbs, do you know the difference between playing the Ball and playing the man? You're a mod so I should hope so, I have had enough of you following me around threads trying to drag them off topic and personalise them.

"No," then.

Napper Hawkins

Traonach wrote: »

Just because I can speak Irish doesn't mean I shouldn't converse in English.

Damn right, folks need to understand what you're saying.

Wibbs

Traonach wrote: »

That's a retarded statement to make considering you can't speak Irish.

Irony.

Traonach wrote: »

If you hold that view you are less Irish than me:cool:

You admit you're not fluent, so what percentage of less or more "Irish: are you? Do native speakers consider you lesser? By your "logic" it seems they do. Give me an ever loving break. If we're debating this BS it's up there with baldy men fighting over a comb, as Gaelige no as Bearla.

Brian_Zeluz

Neunaneunzig euro pro kinder, das ist gut!

Wibbs

deise go deo wrote: »

Honnest question Wibbs, do you know the difference between playing the Ball and playing the man? You're a mod so I should hope so, I have had enough of you following me around threads trying to drag them off topic and personalise them.

I hardly need to be "following your around" DgD. In your case it seems the ball is the man. Break out into any forum you care to mention and go wild. It seems this is your only hobby horse and good luck to you, ride him well, but one can hardly expect to not be called on that horse.

LordSutch

I answered 'Leave it at current levels' but I say that with the caveat that Irish should be made non mandatory for all leaving Cert students.

I have no problem at all with the Irish language as long as its a non mandatory subject, and I say this against the very current situation we find ourselves in, where students might be much better off spending hundreds of hours studying German, French, or Spanish in order to apply for overseas jobs, instead of being forced to learn (probably not learn) a language which doesn't travel. Irish is a fine language, and I hope thrives among those who wish to speak it, and I hope its always kept alive, but not at everybody's curricular expense.

Doc Ruby

LordSutch wrote: »

I answered 'Leave it at current levels' but I say that with the caveat that Irish should be made non mandatory for all leaving Cert students.

I have no problem at all with the Irish language as long as its a non mandatory subject, and I say this against the very current situation we find ourselves in, where students might be much better off spending hundreds of hours studying German, French, or Spanish in order to apply for overseas jobs, instead of being forced to learn (probably not learn) a language which doesn't travel. Irish is a fine language, and I hope thrives among those who wish to speak it, and I hope its always kept alive, but not at everybody's curricular expense.

Ah Keith weighed in, now Sutch, all we need is bwatson to make an appearance and the brotherhood of nod is complete.