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How much should be spent on Irish?

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    #152
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    lividduck wrote: »
    I was responding to the assertion that expecting Protestant schools to teach irish was unrtealistic (Unless of course as a little Irelander you also believe that Protestants cant be Irish). However you have chosen to quote me out of context in order to try and score a cheap point, I can understand now why you keep getting banned.


    Are you ever going to get around to answering my question on you socalled 'real history of this island' as you put it?


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    #153
    stephendevlin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,307 ✭✭✭stephendevlin


    starviewadams wrote: »
    €0.00

    The money should be spent on a useful language,if people want to learn the language in their own time then more power to them.Shouldn't be wasting time/money forcing children to learn it in school.

    What about religion then?


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    #154
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    AngryBollix wrote: »
    It isnt a vehicle for culture.

    Its a means of expressing it. Therein lies a very important distinction.

    If ulysses were written in German, Spanish, French, Russian or any other language it's still ulysses.

    The language of its expression does not dilute or increase a works cultural significance necessarily.


    In my opinion you are quite wrong, language does serve as a vehicle of culture and identity.
    If Ulysses was written in French, not just translated at a later time, then it would be a very different book to what it is.


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    #155
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    AngryBollix wrote: »
    Nothing is everybodys.
    Flipping this argument is equally fallacious.
    Wtf are you on about here?
    AngryBollix wrote: »
    Why when we already have a very effective means of communication in place? We dont need the irish language.
    The Irish speaking community do, and the majority of Irish people believe it is important culturally to continue efforts to see it spread, just like people all over the planet with endangered or vulnerable languages.
    Not everybody values the same things in the same way you do. ;)
    After all language is just that, a method of communication.
    Language goes way beyond just communication, you think in language and how you think and see the world depends on that language, therefore language is very much part of who you are.


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    #156
    AngryBollix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭AngryBollix


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    Wtf are you on about here?

    The Irish speaking community do, and the majority of Irish people believe it is important culturally to continue efforts to see it spread, just like people all over the planet with endangered or vulnerable languages.
    Not everybody values the same things in the same way you do. ;)


    Language goes way beyond just communication, you think in language and how you think and see the world depends on that language, therefore language is very much part of who you are.


    How you think is determined by all sorts of external factors that extend beyond ones mother tongue.

    Being bilingual doesnt mean you think differently depending on what language you choose to express yourself in.


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    #157
    AngryBollix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭AngryBollix


    deise go deo wrote: »
    In my opinion you are quite wrong, language does serve as a vehicle of culture and identity.
    If Ulysses was written in French, not just translated at a later time, then it would be a very different book to what it is.

    Then this would be true if it were written in irish wouldnt it? A less diverse and less expressive language than English


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    #158
    Little Lord Fauntleroy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4 ✭Little Lord Fauntleroy


    stephendevlin wrote: »
    What about religion then?

    Also a waste of time and/or money, but it seems to be plonked into the curriculum nowadays to make people who are religious more understanding of other religious people.

    Which is a shame.


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    #159
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    lividduck wrote: »
    I was responding to the assertion that expecting Protestant schools to teach irish was unrtealistic (Unless of course as a little Irelander you also believe that Protestants cant be Irish). However you have chosen to quote me out of context in order to try and score a cheap point, I can understand now why you keep getting banned.
    What is a little Irelander?
    What do you mean by "keep getting banned"? I don't keep getting banned.
    I can honestly say not one of your posts has any logic or truth to them, and you never defend your position just repeat the same incorrect statements over and over again, reminds me of this.


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    #160
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    deise go deo wrote: »
    Should it not have official recognition though?
    Recognise it? Yes, but force students to learn it , no!
    You can recognise it as a historical language not spoken by a majority for hundreds of years, you can celebrate it, you can celebrate its origins in the western european celtic language group with Breton, Cornish,Scots gaelic , Ulster-Scots etc...no probs.
    But claiming it is somehow a defining cultural measure is not acceptable, nor is making it compulsory, nor is insisting that every official document is translated into it.
    I see it as dead, but Mozart is dead yet I listen to his music. Celebrate it, acknowledge it in honest terms and no reasonable person could argue with you (You might even convert a few) but overplaying its signifigance and forcing it and it's often associated revisionist history upon others will alienate them.
    That said I wish you well if you continue to seek to promote Irish to those who wish, without coercion, to engage with it.


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    #161
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    Cú Giobach wrote: »
    What is a little Irelander?
    What do you mean by "keep getting banned"? I don't keep getting banned.
    I can honestly say not one of your posts has any logic or truth to them, and you never defend your position just repeat the same incorrect statements over and over again, reminds me of this.
    You remind me of something too, but when I typed "DogS**T" into google images they didn't have a picture stong enough!
    Taw shay mahogany gaspipes


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    #162
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    AngryBollix wrote: »
    Being bilingual doesnt mean you think differently depending on what language you choose to express yourself in.


    It does mean that you think differently than if you were monolingual.


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    #163
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    AngryBollix wrote: »
    Then this would be true if it were written in irish wouldnt it? A less diverse and less expressive language than English


    Do you speak Irish? If not how do you know how it compares to English in terms of expressiveness?


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    #164
    dirtyden
    Registered Users Posts: 1,733 ✭✭✭dirtyden


    deise go deo wrote: »
    It does mean that you think differently than if you were monolingual.

    Explain this please?

    How do you think differently?


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    #165
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    AngryBollix wrote: »
    How you think is determined by all sorts of external factors that extend beyond ones mother tongue.
    Yes of course, so?
    Being bilingual doesnt mean you think differently depending on what language you choose to express yourself in.
    By being bilingual you already think differently.
    In order to express yourself you have to think about what you are going to say and since you say things differently in different languages, well yes you would have to think differently depending on which language you are speaking.
    Actually people who are bilingual often feel one language would be better to express certain things than the other, for example swearing in one would have more force than the other, or talking to a loved one more emotion.


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    #166
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    lividduck wrote: »
    You remind me of something too, but when I typed "DogS**T" into google images they didn't have a picture stong enough!
    Taw shay mahogany gaspipes
    Your debating abilities aren't the best.


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    #167
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    lividduck wrote: »
    You remind me of something too, but when I typed "DogS**T" into google images they didn't have a picture stong enough!
    Taw shay mahogany gaspipes



    I'v never understood people who think ignorence is something to boast about:confused:


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    #168
    AngryBollix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭AngryBollix


    As I see it, the sensible approach to education is to invest in whatever areas are most relevant at any particular time.

    This will change from generation to generation and surely its the sign of a worthwhile education system that it can adapt to changing times.

    Irish is not central to irish culture. By extension the level of investment in the teaching of this subject should be adjusted accordingly.

    Roman catholicism does not have the cultural "stranglehold" (for want of a better word) that it once did. Following the same logic it probably should not have the level of influence on the irish education system that it once exerted.

    This logic should apply to all subjects.


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    #169
    Traonach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 419 ✭✭Traonach


    lividduck wrote: »
    You can recognise it as a historical language not spoken by a majority for hundreds of years, you can celebrate it, you can celebrate its origins in the western european celtic language group with Breton, Cornish,Scots gaelic , Ulster-Scots etc...no probs.
    .
    Ulster-Scots is not a celtic language. It's a dialect of english. Forgive my pedantic nature.


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    #170
    AngryBollix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭AngryBollix


    deise go deo wrote: »
    It does mean that you think differently than if you were monolingual.


    No it doesnt. It isnt the only influence on how you think


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    #171
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    dirtyden wrote: »
    Explain this please?

    How do you think differently?



    Have a look at the research into the effect of Bilinguialism on cognative development.

    Pick One


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    #172
    AngryBollix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭AngryBollix


    deise go deo wrote: »
    Do you speak Irish? If not how do you know how it compares to English in terms of expressiveness?


    No and I can only assume that you are a fluent french speaker.

    Was the assertion that I made about irish being less expressive than english incorrect or correct?


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    #173
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    AngryBollix wrote: »
    No it doesnt. It isnt the only influence on how you think


    Just because it is not the only influence does not mean it does not change how you think.


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    #174
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    deise go deo wrote: »
    I'v never understood people who think ignorence is something to boast about:confused:
    When you learn to spell IGNORANCE you will understand!


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    #175
    Cú Giobach
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,772 ✭✭✭Cú Giobach


    lividduck wrote: »
    You can recognise it as a historical language not spoken by a majority for hundreds of years, you can celebrate it, you can celebrate its origins in the western european celtic language group with Breton, Cornish,Scots gaelic , Ulster-Scots etc...no probs..
    How can a living language be historical?
    Ulster-Scots isn't a celtic language, it is germanic and many just call it a dialect of English.


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    #176
    deise go deo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,677 ✭✭✭deise go deo


    AngryBollix wrote: »
    No and I can only assume that you are a fluent french speaker.

    Was the assertion that I made about irish being less expressive than english incorrect or correct?


    Why?


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    #177
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    Traonach wrote: »
    Ulster-Scots is not a celtic language. It's a dialect of english. Forgive my pedantic nature.
    Wrong as usual, but of course since you judgement is skewed by cultural nazi-ism we can expect no differnt ,Ulster-scots is a pidgen dialect of Scots Gaelic.
    Typicical of the cultural Nazis to believe that they have some propietery ownership of celticness!


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    #178
    lividduck
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,250 ✭✭✭lividduck


    And now as they say on Dragons Den, "I'm out".
    I have no intention of attracting a ban by retaliating to Trolls.
    Ball burst,whistle blown, game over!


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    #179
    AngryBollix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭AngryBollix


    deise go deo wrote: »
    Just because it is not the only influence does not mean it does not change how you think.


    I didnt say that. I'm saying it isnt the only factor in ones intellectual development. Ones linguistic skills are just a part of the bigger picture.


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    #180
    boobar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,226 ✭✭✭boobar


    Caoga cent


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    #181
    AngryBollix
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,536 ✭✭✭AngryBollix


    deise go deo wrote: »
    Why?

    Did you make the comment about if Ulysses were writen in french it wouldnt be the same book?

    If not then I apologise and stand corrected


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