Are the Klitschko's Boring?

cowzerp

full_irish wrote: »

Looks like I'm outnumbered on seeing the two heavyweight champs fight each other.

Amateur boxing is about pride and glory-pro boxing is about money and is savage, them fighting is a non issue and it's been accepted for a long time it won't happen and most people understand the reasons.

RiseToTheTop

kryogen wrote: »

Pretty sure if you read the thread you will find some

Am I not reading the thread?

Maybe if "Dohnny Jepp" posted more about his Klitschko views, giving reasons for his views, rather than hitting the thanks button we might find out more what Klitschko fans thinks.

RiseToTheTop

full_irish wrote: »

Looks like I'm outnumbered on seeing the two heavyweight champs fight each other.

Unfortunately yes. Despite Lennox Lewis saying on twitter if he had a brother who held another title he would have fought him for it.

There seems to be a concensus that the reason the Klitschko's are boring is because they fight bad opposition and aren't made to work so....they're not boring???

*brain circuit overloads*

full_irish

cowzerp wrote: »

Amateur boxing is about pride and glory-pro boxing is about money and is savage, them fighting is a non issue and it's been accepted for a long time it won't happen and most people understand the reasons.

I accept and understand that they won't fight. But Jesus I'd still love to see Vitali put one across Vlad's jaw.

RiseToTheTop

full_irish wrote: »

I accept and understand that they won't fight. But Jesus I'd still love to see Vitali put one across Vlad's jaw.

Don't worry, they'll still be plenty of more time to debate in the "Fantasy Fights" forums for years to come.

full_irish

Ah there must be a kitty big enough to make fight, I have €3.68 in my pocket which I'll throw in so only about € 199,999,996.32 more needed.

Come on lads, dig deep.

gene_tunney

Apparently Don King offered them 100 million to fight each other. Just shows, there are some things money can't buy folks!

cowzerp

gene_tunney wrote: »

Apparently Don King offered them 100 million to fight each other. Just shows, there are some things money can't buy folks!

Would be an awful fight, 2 lads who don't want to hurt each other and would just have a sparring match-12 rounds of sparring and no chance of a KO or anything.

kryogen

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

Am I not reading the thread?

Maybe if "Dohnny Jepp" posted more about his Klitschko views, giving reasons for his views, rather than hitting the thanks button we might find out more what Klitschko fans thinks.

If you have missed everybody else giving their opinion on the Klits then yes, you are not reading the thread properly, if you specifically wanted that one posters opinion you should have asked for his in particular.

It is actually like trying to talk to a child responding to you sometimes.

gene_tunney

Wladimir apparently wasn't boring to the 12.26 million viewers of the fight on television in Germany.

walshb

gene_tunney wrote: »

Wladimir apparently wasn't boring to the 12.26 million viewers of the fight on television in Germany.

We're talking about Germans here.;)

cowzerp

60% of the people on here also don't think their boring

It's good that fans actually like Boxing and are not just interested in watching a brawl every fight.

RiseToTheTop

gene_tunney wrote: »

Wladimir apparently wasn't boring to the 12.26 million viewers of the fight on television in Germany.

Well he went for the early KO that night, he was entertaining.

But as I said, it was March 2007 when he last KO'd an opponent early. A fight going 10+ rounds, with a man using only his jab isn't entertaining. Look at the Haye fight, Klitschko only used his jab and pressed down on Haye.

I honestly can't see how a fighter being caution first, exciting second, can be classified as entertaining. When I watch a fight, I want to see a fight.

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

60% of the people on here also don't think their boring

It's good that fans actually like Boxing and are not just interested in watching a brawl every fight.

I don't think it's as simple as that. I love a war and a brawl as much as the next man, but I also love a skilled and technical and paced fight. Example: Collins was always in wars, but I wouldn't pay to see him because he was far too sloppy.

Now, Gatti was in wars a lot too, but he was quite proficient, balanced and technically sound. He made for aesthetic wars. Ones I would watch all day.

Wlad seems to be in a lot of boring one paced, one dimensional scraps. Yes, using all his tools etc, but never really exciting, even though he shows good moves for a big man. It's boring to watch. He is to me a wee bit too saftey first. Hell, you're so much bigger, go eat them smaller guys up., Wlad

Take the DeGale-Groves scrap a while back. That was very exciting because both men were skilled, paced and so focused. There were many times of non action, but even then, you could them manoeuvring and figuring each other out.

I guess when the opposition is quite poor we will continue to get these boring Wlad fights. He does indeed fear a tear up. That is obvious. Not blaming him for avoiding it, but I guess if he had a Tyson or Liston in there maybe he'd be forced to perform or fold.

Even LL in his later career could be boring, safety first, but still a notch above Wlad in the action and excitement stakes.

I find him boring to watch. End of.

Dohnny Jepp

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

Am I not reading the thread?

Maybe if "Dohnny Jepp" posted more about his Klitschko views, giving reasons for his views, rather than hitting the thanks button we might find out more what Klitschko fans thinks.

One thing I don't like doing is wasting my time, and trying to argue a point to you really is time wasting, you simply don't accept fact or acknowledge other peoples opinions may have more basis in reality than your own. I have to admire posters like cowzerp, kryogen and gene who have the dedication to keep debating with you whilst you ignore every point they make because it doesnt fit in with your completely bias point of view.

However, I'll bite.

Why do I find the brothers exciting? I remember years ago watching an interview with Eubank, it was a very good interview and he talked about how people forget that boxing isnt about two guys going into the ring and mutilating each other, its a game of points. Now don't get me wrong I love to see a brawl but I also love seeing fighters out think their opponents, adapt to the fight, change strategy mid round. This is what the brothers provide, it's nearly like a game of chess to them.

Now as well as an entertaining intelligent fight, Vitali in particular brings a more primal excitment too. He fights with his hands very low, by his side nearly, he wants his opponent to throw punches at him, mroe often than not they can't even land a clean punch on him as he can move well but when an opponent does hit him it simply demoralizes him, hitting a man with everythin you got and vitali walks through it, not even dazed. Lewis hit him with his best punches and they were lethal punches and he couldnt put vitali down.

How can you not find that style exciting?

You want my Klit views so I'll keep giving them even through the rest will be outside the bounderies of this thread.

I think the brothers are of exceptional character. They bring a certain class to boxing, unlike the thugs off the street a lot of boxers portray themselves as. I find them very charismatic, however i admit it's the edgy charisma that can build a good promo for a fight, but it is a very likeable charisma.


A popular opinion on this forum is that this is a weak era. Now calling this a weak era is simply as I said an opinion and an unfounded one at that. It certainly isn't fact. It's tough enough comparing the elite fighters of each era together not mind the challengers and journeymen which make up the era. Aside the golden era, every era is very similar. This is used as an argument to put the brothers down, "Yeah they are champions but they fight nobodies". Just because the public aren't familiar with the european and eastern european challengers does not make them nobodies. THe brothers have fought and continue to fight anybody who is willing to get in the ring with them. There is no more they can do. If you use this as a reason to put them down then you really are clutching at straws.


In regards to fantasy match ups on this forum, some of the previous era's heavy hitters can trouble and maybe even intimidate Wlad. However Wlad has the technical ability to be compeitive with anybody and of the two brothers he is the better puncher. His chin may let him down. . . if they can get to it.

Vitali on the other hand has the ability to beat anyone, I'm not saying he will beat anyone every time. That would equally as bias as a lot of your claims RiseToTheTop. However he has the chin to keep him in all fights, he has the confidence and self belief to never be intimidated, and with Wlad he has the physical attributes that would give him an edge. I'm not saying he is the best ever but he is in the category of greatest ever fighters in my opinion. I would pimp myself out to see a Vitali Foreman fight.


That's some of my views on the brothers RiseToTheTop. Now if you don't mind i'm going to go back to thanking posts that I like.

cowzerp

walshb wrote: »

Even LL in his later career could be boring, safety first, but still a notch above Wlad in the action and excitement stakes.

Lennox Lewis was never exciting, he was always ultra cautious and was worse in his early career, taking the nothing fights most boxers have to build a record fights out of the debate as they're not fights

I have no problem with people even not liking certain Boxers styles, we all have our own likes/dislikes but it's when people try make the brothers out to be poor Boxers for it that it then is annoying and just pathetic.

And i'm talking about style not Technique, if they where technically poor i would have no problem with people calling them on it, i would myself.

Dohnny Jepp, Great post and Thanking a post is a good way of showing your in agreement with it without repeating the same thing so keep it up.

walshb

The bros are good boxers. Wlad better than Vitali. Still think Wlad can be very diffciult to watch. Efficient/technical or not I find him boring.

Lewis to me wasn't major exciting, but more than Wlad, that's for sure. And, every bit as good a boxer. He had a much better inside game and a better variety of shots. Plus, Lewis didn't **** his pants when hit clean. I know, he got knocked out, but he was far more relaxed and calm under pressure. Wlad looked so panicked and disorganised when hit clean by Sanders and Brewster

I mentioned it before, add Vitali' chin, toughness, clamness and confidence to Wlad's movement and fluidiness, and that is a hell of a fighter.

walshb

BTW, I wish Johnny Depp would post a little more. Always a succinct and insightful poster.

full_irish

and if he could cut acting in some shocking films at the same time that would be great!

RiseToTheTop

@Dohnny Jepp: A game of chess isn't an exciting fight for me. Maybe you are looking for the term "technically proficient". Maybe the original topic title should have been are the Klitschko's exciting, because they aren't to me.

How can you not find that style exciting?

I don't find Vitali's style exciting because he doesn't throw many punches. A "game of chess" (your words, not mine) isn't very exciting to me. When I tune into a fight I like to see the excitement, something that keeps me on the edge of my seat.

hitting a man with everythin you got and vitali walks through it, not even dazed.

When was the last time Vitali took a flush shot on the chin, or just a normal one? I can't remember, yet the way your worded the above quote makes it seems like Vitali does this every fight. More of your bias shining through.

Vitali can do the style you have mentioned because the fighters don't have the quality, will or heart to rush him, to drive him against the ropes. Look at Adamek, he tried to throw a punch but Vitali just jumped back everytime. A prime Tyson would have rushed Vitali. Think Chisora-Vitali, but much more than that. If Vitali met a prime Lewis he wouldn't have this style of keeping his hand down by his side. He wouldn't have gotten away with it. You can see this with a 38 year old past it Lewis.

You mentioned Lewis hit him with his best punches. Once again your bias is showing. This is a 38 years old, faded very overweight Lewis who was very tired after round 3. A prime Lewis would have thrown more punches and ones with more speed as he wouldn't have been so fatigued. Yet in your mind you build it up as "Vitali took Lennox Lewis's best shots, hit him with everything he had, but Vitali still stood undazed, walked through it all."

I think the brothers are of exceptional character. They bring a certain class to boxing, unlike the thugs off the street a lot of boxers portray themselves as. I find them very charismatic, however i admit it's the edgy charisma that can build a good promo for a fight, but it is a very likeable charisma.

BTW I don't give a damn about a fighters character. Tyson stole old womens shopping bags, he committed many crimes before he was 13. Liston broke people's legs for money, Ali called white people devils.

But it's all about the fighting. The ring is seperate from a person's private life, that is that.

Just because the public aren't familiar with the european and eastern european challengers does not make them nobodies.

Just because they are European and Eastern Europeans challengers and that they are unknown doesn't make them good on that quality alone. But IMO if there is a very good fighter around the public knows about him.

A popular opinion on this forum is that this is a weak era. Now calling this a weak era is simply as I said an opinion and an unfounded one at that. It certainly isn't fact. It's tough enough comparing the elite fighters of each era together not mind the challengers and journeymen which make up the era. Aside the golden era, every era is very similar. This is used as an argument to put the brothers down, "Yeah they are champions but they fight nobodies". Just because the public aren't familiar with the european and eastern european challengers does not make them nobodies. THe brothers have fought and continue to fight anybody who is willing to get in the ring with them. There is no more they can do. If you use this as a reason to put them down then you really are clutching at straws.

You claim that every era outside of the great area of the 60's-70's is the same? What about Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis, Riddick Bowe, Tua of the 80's-90's? That era is a lot stronger than this era IMO.

However, I'll bite make a contribution to the topic.

FYP.

RiseToTheTop

Manny Pacquiao is very exciting for me. I love to see him fight.

cowzerp

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

You claim that every era outside of the great area of the 60's-70's is the same? What about Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis, Riddick Bowe, Tua of the 80's-90's? That era is a lot stronger than this era IMO.

FYP.

Funny!

Tyson never fought any of them while in peak, Bowe fought Evander and never faced Tyson, or Lewis

Lewis fought Tyson and an old Evander both past their peaks when he was in his peak, he had no decent challengers in his peak bar a couple of near finished fighters

your really joining eras together to try make it sound like a good era

Tua did not fight Tyson, Holyfield or Bowe at all and only boxed lewis in 2000

kryogen

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

Manny Pacquiao is very exciting for me. I love to see him fight.

Dont think you would enjoy what would happen to him if he stepped in the ring with the Klitschkos so.

You never say box you know, its always fight, and this may be the problem for you, you want to see a fight, boxing matches are a little different to straight out fights.

You would possibly prefer the bare knuckle gypsy style fighting?

RiseToTheTop

cowzerp wrote: »

Funny!

Tyson never fought any of them while in peak, Bowe fought Evander and never faced Tyson, or Lewis

Lewis fought Tyson and an old Evander both past their peaks when he was in his peak, he had no decent challengers in his peak bar a couple of near finished fighters

your really joining eras together to try make it sound like a good era

Tua did not fight Tyson, Holyfield or Bowe at all and only boxed lewis in 2000

I'm talking about the era. When people talk about era's they talk about timelines. Johnny Deep reference the era which Ali was in, that is from 1960-1981.

If you want you can comment on my other points. I went to the trouble of articulating my points.

RiseToTheTop

kryogen wrote: »

Dont think you would enjoy what would happen to him if he stepped in the ring with the Klitschkos so.

You never say box you know, its always fight, and this may be the problem for you, you want to see a fight, boxing matches are a little different to straight out fights.

You would possibly prefer the bare knuckle gypsy style fighting?

There are many boxers, Ali, Holmes, etc who fought brawls despite their mean asset using the jab. Don't completely seperate "Boxing" and "Brawling", both can be part of a boxing match at the same time.

kryogen

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

There are many boxers, Ali, Holmes, etc who fought brawls despite their mean asset using the jab. Don't completely seperate "Boxing" and "Brawling", both can be part of a boxing match at the same time.

I don't! You seem to!

A good boxing match can be a thinking bout. Genuinely, if you only want the blood and guts you should watch bare knuckle, less thinky more punchy

RiseToTheTop

kryogen wrote: »

I don't! You seem to!

A good boxing match can be a thinking bout. Genuinely, if you only want the blood and guts you should watch bare knuckle, less thinky more punchy

Well considering more people would prefer to watch a Tyson, Frazier, Foreman, Pacquiao, Hagler, Hearns, etc fight over the more technically proficient fights, I feel i'm in the majority.

Bare knuckles fights hasn't been around for many years bai.

kryogen

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

Well considering more people would prefer to watch a Tyson, Frazier, Foreman, Pacquiao, Hagler, Hearns, etc fight over the more technically proficient fights, I feel i'm in the majority.

Bare knuckles fights hasn't been around for many years bai.

Bare knuckle fights have been around longer then boxing!

It was even a legal recognised sport at one time. You would think you would know that?

The majority on this board have voted that the Klits are not boring.

You are in the minority on here.

And to be honest, you are going off into a different subject again regarding whether you would prefer to watch one fighter over another. Doesnt matter

You are underestimating some of the guys on that list by knocking their technical proficiency btw.

cowzerp

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

I'm talking about the era. When people talk about era's they talk about timelines. Johnny Deep reference the era which Ali was in, that is from 1960-1981.

If you want you can comment on my other points. I went to the trouble of articulating my points.

No they don't, tysons era was very short, vitali's longer, if I mention every good boxer who happened to fight during vitali's era then I could generate some list, pointless though as I'm not trying to win a debate with fake facts

My point is that it is not an era, you basically lumped 3 eras together that while they may have been around at the same time they where clearly different and trying to make it sound better than it was.

Maybe I should talk about the klitscho, Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis, Morrison era
And Tua let's not forget

RiseToTheTop

kryogen wrote: »

Bare knuckle fights have been around longer then boxing!

It was even a legal recognised sport at one time. You would think you would know that?

The majority on this board have voted that the Klits are not boring.

You are in the minority on here.

And to be honest, you are going off into a different subject again regarding whether you would prefer to watch one fighter over another. Doesnt matter

You are underestimating some of the guys on that list by knocking their technical proficiency btw.

Thanks for not fully intaking the point. I said bare knuckling boxing hasn't been around for many years. John L Sullivan was the first Heavyweight champion with gloves. Back then (John L Sullivan era.) fights where fought in disguise as it was illegal, and the boxing match was as much as fusion of wrestling and boxing.

The style of boxers you see today was completely different back then. boxers fight the way they fight because because 15 3 minutes rounds where put into place.

You are in the minority on here.

The yardstick for me is whether a fighter is popular in America. The United States is the center of boxing, it is where the most popular names go. Manny Pacquiao is a Filipino, he got really big and went to the US. Saul Alvarez started to get big and went to the US. I can list countless other fighters who moved to the US when they started to get big. It is the norm.

Why do the Klitschko's fight exclusively in Germany so? Answer this.

(and TBH, this is a boxing board where the Boxing fans have a big interest in the sport, I really really doubt the poll is the opinion of your average sports fan. Many mightn't even know who the Klitschko's are. I wonder how many average Brits knew of Wladimir Klitschko before David Haye.)