Are the Klitschko's Boring?

tryingmybestt

I'm not disputing that the Klits are good affective at what they do, obviously they are as they usually win.

The question I ask is are they boring and therefore somewhat responsible in the current disinterest in HW boxing?

If Tyson, Ali, Foreman etc. were champ now, would there be more interest in HW boxing?

gene_tunney

The HW division would be more exciting without them as there would be 5 or 6 heavies vying to be the top dog. But the standard would be much lower.

I'd rather watch their one-sided technically masterful displays (moreso Wlad than Vitali) than a closer fight between lesser boxers.

risteard7

THE OPPOSITION IS BORING AND UNPROFESIONAL

kryogen

To me they are not "boring" in the sense of the word I think you mean, I actually enjoy watching them systematically take opponents apart and totally out think and out class them

If anything it should actually make other boxers in the HW catagory and those coming up try even harder to improve their own skills. Good competition is normally how improvements are made, it pushes people on to better themselves.

They generally give a boxing masterclass in the ring, to me thats not boring, I understand that if you want the flashy speedy stuff generally reserved for the lower weight divisions these days in particular you would find the fights boring.

runboyrun

they don't bring excitement like a prime tyson, ali, frazier, marciano, louis, dempsey etc.

they are good at what they do but they are boring. why was vlad fighting a 39 yr old washed up cruiserweight? why?? it's a joke. why doesn't he at least fight povetkin, huck, mitchell etc. the opposition is very poor but he's not even fighting the best out there.

the way vlad was constantly holding last night was embarassing. he was constantly grabbing and leaning on the much smaller man to wear him out. this isn't boxing. vlad had all the advantages bu still he was afraid of his life of taking a shot from a non puncher at HW.

RiseToTheTop

IMO they are boring. They keep their opponent at the end of their jab and rarely throw hooks/right hands. It's just the jab for 9+ rounds and then KO their opponent very unspectacularly.

The reason they are so effective is because (mostly) they have good jabs and good rhythm. It's also a pity that the reason they are very effective is the reason they aren't very entertaining.

For the people who answered "No" on the poll, would you rather watch the Klitschko's or Mike Tyson, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, etc. They are entertaining.

barney4001

runboyrun wrote: »

they don't bring excitement like a prime tyson, ali, frazier, marciano, louis, dempsey etc.

they are good at what they do but they are boring. why was vlad fighting a 39 yr old washed up cruiserweight? why?? it's a joke. why doesn't he at least fight povetkin, huck, mitchell etc. the opposition is very poor but he's not even fighting the best out there.

the way vlad was constantly holding last night was embarassing. he was constantly grabbing and leaning on the much smaller man to wear him out. this isn't boxing. vlad had all the advantages bu still he was afraid of his life of taking a shot from a non puncher at HW.

You hit the nail on the head there runboyrun,klits put me of watching their boring performances against hand picked opposition

cowzerp

runboyrun wrote: »

they don't bring excitement like a prime tyson, ali, frazier, marciano, louis, dempsey etc.

The opposition is very poor but he's not even fighting the best out there.

As i posted already, Ali, Frazier during Boxings best ever era fought soft opposition while champs too-Thats worse as there truly was challenges out there for them.

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

The reason they are so effective is because (mostly) they have good jabs and good rhythm. It's also a pity that the reason they are very effective is the reason they aren't very entertaining.

For the people who answered "No" on the poll, would you rather watch the Klitschko's or Mike Tyson, Joe Frazier, George Foreman, etc. They are entertaining.

Wlad actually threw several hooks last night, probably more than jabs, actually both brothers regularly work of left hooks.

Lennox Lewis was far more boring than either Klitschko and is talked up all the time, he was terribly negative and had worse ko rates than the bro's too, to say been less exciting than some of the most exciting fighters ever is a bit silly anyway as most champions could not excite like who you named.

RiseToTheTop

Last night was truly an exception for Wladimir Klitschko, he never KO'd before round 8 for at least 2 years, never mind round 4. 2007 was the last time he KO'd an oppoent in less than 5 rounds.

If you think the boxers whom I highlighted are not exciting I dunno what to say. Though if you find the Klitschko's exciting...

cowzerp

cowzerp wrote: »

to say been less exciting than some of the most exciting fighters ever is a bit silly anyway as most champions could not excite like who you named.

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

If you think the boxers whom I highlighted are not exciting I dunno what to say. Though if you find the Klitschko's exciting...

Is your bias that bad that you can't read my post's, not many Boxers are exciting as peak Tyson, Foreman etc-some people don't find Mayweather as exciting as Sugar ray leonard, does not mean floyd is not exciting.

RiseToTheTop

I'm sorry, I didn't catch your post in full.

corny

I think the question should be are the Klitschkos involved in boring fights.

Are they boring? No

Are they involved in boring one sided fights? Sometimes yes.

Who's fault is it? Not theirs anyway.

They're more unlucky than anything else. Fighters are often defined by the rivalries they create and sometimes even a loss to an opponent in an epic can enhance a reputation more than drumming out victories like the Klitschkos.

Theres also an element of them lacking the charisma needed to sell boxing to the masses. They're stand up people. I watched Chuck Wepner's story recently and he said Ali asked him to call him a '**gger' to promote the fight! Unfortunately the Klitschkos don't resort that type of nonsense to sell themselves. Maybe they should and threads like this wouldn't feature.

RiseToTheTop

I'm reading a boxing book Sound & Fury, detailing Ali & Cossells relationship. It says after Ali's fight with Quarry and Bonvavena, in January of 1971, Cosell was poolside at a hotel in Miami.

All of a said he heard Ali shouting and stood up and said "Where is he?". In the distance Ali was shouting "Where is that white fella who keeping on troubling me? Telling me I am out of shape, not fast anymore.", his usual showbiz act. Ali found Cosell and ask his wife can he go 15 rounds with Howard, and she agreed

Anyway, Ali took Cosell on a spin throughout the black side of Miami, first stop he brought Ali to a poolside place, not at a hotel but out in the open. Ali and Howard got out and there where 8 random black fellas with pool sticks passing by, they were playing pool. Ali said "come, lets get him boys, this is the fella who has been bothering me." He was playful, but the black fellas look and said "Careful, these guys could be serious." Ali pulled Cosell close and said to him "call me Ni**ger." but then Cosell said "I think I still have a couple of years left!!!". Anyway Ali obviously did that with Wepner too!

Then Ali took Cosell to a barbershop and asked him to sit down and started chanting, inviting everyone along with him to chant for Cosell to get a haircut. Cosell didn't have his toupee on, and said "Ali please, I barely have enough hair as it is."

StevePH

Are the Ks boring?
Put this another way. Do Wlad or Vitali get your blood up - in the way a sport like this should - in the way that Hearns, Ali, Barrera, Jones, Benn etc did?

For me, no.

One point I'd make is that the Kitschskos can't be lumped together.
Vitali's grit and Wlad's technique are the business. They're good to watch, in their own way - they are effective.

Exciting, value-for-money entertainment? No

RiseToTheTop

For the people who voted they aren't boring, please give us your opinions.

In what way do you find them entertaining?

RXMPS

cowzerp wrote: »

As i posted already, Ali, Frazier during Boxings best ever era fought soft opposition while champs too-Thats worse as there truly was challenges out there for them.


Wlad actually threw several hooks last night, probably more than jabs, actually both brothers regularly work of left hooks.

Lennox Lewis was far more boring than either Klitschko and is talked up all the time, he was terribly negative and had worse ko rates than the bro's too, to say been less exciting than some of the most exciting fighters ever is a bit silly anyway as most champions could not excite like who you named.

Exactly.

Vitali especially is far from boring, it's just there is no one out there to give him a good scrap and test him.

He can tear it up with the best of them if he has to, he just doesn't need to, as there is no one out there who can trade with him.

It's sad really, as the Klit's would be exciting if there was a few young Holyfield's, Bowe's, Tyson's, Lewis's Holmes's around that could put them on the back foot and test them.

If we just a had a few big hitters like Tyson and huge powerful athletes like Lewis and Bowe around the place, the Klist's would be great to watch.

It's not there fault know one is around to give them a hiding, Wlad with his dodgy chin would great to watch, if Tyson was around gunning for him with TNT in both arms and slipping the jab and landing bombs.

Vitali would never back out of a tear up with any man, can you imagine him having a tear up with a big man like Bowe, a Foreman, young Lewis, or a young warrior who never give up like Holyfield or a wicked fast young and powerful Tyson.

I think they are great champions.

kryogen

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

For the people who voted they aren't boring, please give us your opinions.

In what way do you find them entertaining?

Pretty sure if you read the thread you will find some

runboyrun

corny wrote: »

I think the question should be are the Klitschkos involved in boring fights.

Are they boring? No

Are they involved in boring one sided fights? Sometimes yes.

Who's fault is it? Not theirs anyway.

They're more unlucky than anything else. Fighters are often defined by the rivalries they create and sometimes even a loss to an opponent in an epic can enhance a reputation more than drumming out victories like the Klitschkos.

Theres also an element of them lacking the charisma needed to sell boxing to the masses. They're stand up people. I watched Chuck Wepner's story recently and he said Ali asked him to call him a '**gger' to promote the fight! Unfortunately the Klitschkos don't resort that type of nonsense to sell themselves. Maybe they should and threads like this wouldn't feature.

Tyson, foreman etc. had many very one sided fights, most of tyson's early fights were so one sided but they were still not boring as he won in exciting fashion!

Vlad wins in a dominant way but is still safety first and boring!

Nobody is questioning their character but I agree with you that they lack the charisma to sell the fight like an Ali, Mayweather, Hatton etc.

walshb

RXMPS wrote: »

Exactly.

Vitali especially is far from boring, it's just there is no one out there to give him a good scrap and test him.
.

This is a very good point. Vitali has no fear, and the fact that he's so big and tough and dominant makes his fights appear boring. Look at Chisora and how easily Vit simply kept him at bay, AND, if for some resaon Chisora was faster and better at getting close, I am sure Vitali would have responded and beat him up. The opposition simply does not really test these guys. It's a shame there are no talents like Tyson, Frazier, Liston, Foreman, Ali, Holmes etc that could make these guys work so very hard. Even a Tommy Morrisson, Mercer, Tua and Ruddock would be great scraps, and scraps where Vitali would show us his mettle.

full_irish

Are they boring? I'm not sure, the Germans where they base themselves love them... but they also love The Hoff so not sure about their sound judgement. And there's that whole Nazi thing too...

If they weren't they would have given us the heavyweight fight that would bring the division back to life

Klitschko VS Klitschko

corny

full_irish wrote: »

Are they boring? I'm not sure, the Germans where they base themselves love them... but they also love The Hoff so not sure about their sound judgement. And there's that whole Nazi thing too...

If they weren't they would have given us the heavyweight fight that would bring the division back to life

Klitschko VS Klitschko

Eh what does that have to do with the Klitschkos?

gene_tunney

full_irish wrote: »

Are they boring? I'm not sure, the Germans where they base themselves love them... but they also love The Hoff so not sure about their sound judgement. And there's that whole Nazi thing too...

If they weren't they would have given us the heavyweight fight that would bring the division back to life

Klitschko VS Klitschko

Unfortunately you revealed your ignorance here, hence rendering the remainder of your post null and void.

full_irish

gene_tunney wrote: »

Unfortunately you revealed your ignorance here, hence rendering the remainder of your post null and void.

I have the cardinal mistake of forgetting to hold [ALT] + [SARCASM] when i put in the bit about the Nazi's.

My bad for assuming that it was obvious.

But in regards to the brothers fighting each other... it should have happened years ago, but never will unfortunately.

gene_tunney

full_irish wrote: »

I have the cardinal mistake of forgetting to hold [ALT] + [SARCASM] when i put in the bit about the Nazi's.

My bad for assuming that it was obvious.

With some of the stuff you'd see on this forum such a comment wouldn't have surprised me. Unfortunately boxing fans aren't a very bright bunch generally.

full_irish wrote: »

But in regards to the brothers fighting each other... it should have happened years ago, but never will unfortunately

It's not a spectacle I ever want to see, for reasons I've outlined before.

full_irish

gene_tunney wrote: »

It's not a spectacle I ever want to see, for reasons I've outlined before.

And these reasons would be?? And yes I checked the rest of this thread and there was not much in it.

gene_tunney

full_irish wrote: »

And these reasons would be?? And yes I checked the rest of this thread and there was not much in it.

Here:

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73707141&postcount=31

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=73711716&postcount=33

full_irish

I do see where you're coming from.

But answer me this Gene, do you have a brother?

cus i know from my personal experience (and mates who i've talked to about this fight who also have brothers) that the relationship between two brothers is quite unique in that ye could be having a scrap one minute and its all forgotten extremely easily.

gene_tunney

full_irish wrote: »

I do see where you're coming from.

But answer me this Gene, do you have a brother?

cus i know from my personal experience (and mates who i've talked to about this fight who also have brothers) that the relationship between two brothers is quite unique in that ye could be having a scrap one minute and its all forgotten extremely easily.

Yes, I do and we're very close in age. When we were younger we fought all the time, and still spar occasionally. But that's totally different to brutalising each other on a world stage for money and essentially trying to damage each other personally.

The goal in boxing is to KO the opponent, in contrast to something like tennis where the goal is to score a point against your opponent. In a KO the brain bashes against the skull, causing a temporary disconnection resulting in a loss of consciousness. The implications of the damage done could lead to serious long term damage. It's called chronic traumatic brain injury and its well established in boxers and NFL players. The risks are greater with heavyweights who hit harder. Why would anybody do this to their own brother, and with millions watching? Disgusting.

full_irish

gene_tunney wrote: »

The goal in boxing is to KO the opponent, in contrast to something like tennis where the goal is to score a point against your opponent. In a KO the brain bashes against the skull, causing a temporary disconnection resulting in a loss of consciousness. The implications of the damage done could lead to serious long term damage. It's called chronic traumatic brain injury and its well established in boxers and NFL players. The risks are greater with heavyweights who hit harder. Why would anybody do this to their own brother, and with millions watching? Disgusting.

Replace brother with 'another person' for money and that sums up the premise of boxing. At the core it is a disgusting sport and can not in any way shape or form be compared to tennis.

walshb

gene, I was going to respond to the post about the bros fighting, but you have covered all areas, bravo!

full_irish

Looks like I'm outnumbered on seeing the two heavyweight champs fight each other.

cowzerp

full_irish wrote: »

Looks like I'm outnumbered on seeing the two heavyweight champs fight each other.

Amateur boxing is about pride and glory-pro boxing is about money and is savage, them fighting is a non issue and it's been accepted for a long time it won't happen and most people understand the reasons.

RiseToTheTop

kryogen wrote: »

Pretty sure if you read the thread you will find some

Am I not reading the thread?

Maybe if "Dohnny Jepp" posted more about his Klitschko views, giving reasons for his views, rather than hitting the thanks button we might find out more what Klitschko fans thinks.

RiseToTheTop

full_irish wrote: »

Looks like I'm outnumbered on seeing the two heavyweight champs fight each other.

Unfortunately yes. Despite Lennox Lewis saying on twitter if he had a brother who held another title he would have fought him for it.

There seems to be a concensus that the reason the Klitschko's are boring is because they fight bad opposition and aren't made to work so....they're not boring???

*brain circuit overloads*

full_irish

cowzerp wrote: »

Amateur boxing is about pride and glory-pro boxing is about money and is savage, them fighting is a non issue and it's been accepted for a long time it won't happen and most people understand the reasons.

I accept and understand that they won't fight. But Jesus I'd still love to see Vitali put one across Vlad's jaw.

RiseToTheTop

full_irish wrote: »

I accept and understand that they won't fight. But Jesus I'd still love to see Vitali put one across Vlad's jaw.

Don't worry, they'll still be plenty of more time to debate in the "Fantasy Fights" forums for years to come.

full_irish

Ah there must be a kitty big enough to make fight, I have €3.68 in my pocket which I'll throw in so only about € 199,999,996.32 more needed.

Come on lads, dig deep.

gene_tunney

Apparently Don King offered them 100 million to fight each other. Just shows, there are some things money can't buy folks!

cowzerp

gene_tunney wrote: »

Apparently Don King offered them 100 million to fight each other. Just shows, there are some things money can't buy folks!

Would be an awful fight, 2 lads who don't want to hurt each other and would just have a sparring match-12 rounds of sparring and no chance of a KO or anything.

kryogen

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

Am I not reading the thread?

Maybe if "Dohnny Jepp" posted more about his Klitschko views, giving reasons for his views, rather than hitting the thanks button we might find out more what Klitschko fans thinks.

If you have missed everybody else giving their opinion on the Klits then yes, you are not reading the thread properly, if you specifically wanted that one posters opinion you should have asked for his in particular.

It is actually like trying to talk to a child responding to you sometimes.

gene_tunney

Wladimir apparently wasn't boring to the 12.26 million viewers of the fight on television in Germany.

walshb

gene_tunney wrote: »

Wladimir apparently wasn't boring to the 12.26 million viewers of the fight on television in Germany.

We're talking about Germans here.;)

cowzerp

60% of the people on here also don't think their boring

It's good that fans actually like Boxing and are not just interested in watching a brawl every fight.

RiseToTheTop

gene_tunney wrote: »

Wladimir apparently wasn't boring to the 12.26 million viewers of the fight on television in Germany.

Well he went for the early KO that night, he was entertaining.

But as I said, it was March 2007 when he last KO'd an opponent early. A fight going 10+ rounds, with a man using only his jab isn't entertaining. Look at the Haye fight, Klitschko only used his jab and pressed down on Haye.

I honestly can't see how a fighter being caution first, exciting second, can be classified as entertaining. When I watch a fight, I want to see a fight.

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

60% of the people on here also don't think their boring

It's good that fans actually like Boxing and are not just interested in watching a brawl every fight.

I don't think it's as simple as that. I love a war and a brawl as much as the next man, but I also love a skilled and technical and paced fight. Example: Collins was always in wars, but I wouldn't pay to see him because he was far too sloppy.

Now, Gatti was in wars a lot too, but he was quite proficient, balanced and technically sound. He made for aesthetic wars. Ones I would watch all day.

Wlad seems to be in a lot of boring one paced, one dimensional scraps. Yes, using all his tools etc, but never really exciting, even though he shows good moves for a big man. It's boring to watch. He is to me a wee bit too saftey first. Hell, you're so much bigger, go eat them smaller guys up., Wlad

Take the DeGale-Groves scrap a while back. That was very exciting because both men were skilled, paced and so focused. There were many times of non action, but even then, you could them manoeuvring and figuring each other out.

I guess when the opposition is quite poor we will continue to get these boring Wlad fights. He does indeed fear a tear up. That is obvious. Not blaming him for avoiding it, but I guess if he had a Tyson or Liston in there maybe he'd be forced to perform or fold.

Even LL in his later career could be boring, safety first, but still a notch above Wlad in the action and excitement stakes.

I find him boring to watch. End of.

Dohnny Jepp

RiseToTheTop wrote: »

Am I not reading the thread?

Maybe if "Dohnny Jepp" posted more about his Klitschko views, giving reasons for his views, rather than hitting the thanks button we might find out more what Klitschko fans thinks.

One thing I don't like doing is wasting my time, and trying to argue a point to you really is time wasting, you simply don't accept fact or acknowledge other peoples opinions may have more basis in reality than your own. I have to admire posters like cowzerp, kryogen and gene who have the dedication to keep debating with you whilst you ignore every point they make because it doesnt fit in with your completely bias point of view.

However, I'll bite.

Why do I find the brothers exciting? I remember years ago watching an interview with Eubank, it was a very good interview and he talked about how people forget that boxing isnt about two guys going into the ring and mutilating each other, its a game of points. Now don't get me wrong I love to see a brawl but I also love seeing fighters out think their opponents, adapt to the fight, change strategy mid round. This is what the brothers provide, it's nearly like a game of chess to them.

Now as well as an entertaining intelligent fight, Vitali in particular brings a more primal excitment too. He fights with his hands very low, by his side nearly, he wants his opponent to throw punches at him, mroe often than not they can't even land a clean punch on him as he can move well but when an opponent does hit him it simply demoralizes him, hitting a man with everythin you got and vitali walks through it, not even dazed. Lewis hit him with his best punches and they were lethal punches and he couldnt put vitali down.

How can you not find that style exciting?

You want my Klit views so I'll keep giving them even through the rest will be outside the bounderies of this thread.

I think the brothers are of exceptional character. They bring a certain class to boxing, unlike the thugs off the street a lot of boxers portray themselves as. I find them very charismatic, however i admit it's the edgy charisma that can build a good promo for a fight, but it is a very likeable charisma.


A popular opinion on this forum is that this is a weak era. Now calling this a weak era is simply as I said an opinion and an unfounded one at that. It certainly isn't fact. It's tough enough comparing the elite fighters of each era together not mind the challengers and journeymen which make up the era. Aside the golden era, every era is very similar. This is used as an argument to put the brothers down, "Yeah they are champions but they fight nobodies". Just because the public aren't familiar with the european and eastern european challengers does not make them nobodies. THe brothers have fought and continue to fight anybody who is willing to get in the ring with them. There is no more they can do. If you use this as a reason to put them down then you really are clutching at straws.


In regards to fantasy match ups on this forum, some of the previous era's heavy hitters can trouble and maybe even intimidate Wlad. However Wlad has the technical ability to be compeitive with anybody and of the two brothers he is the better puncher. His chin may let him down. . . if they can get to it.

Vitali on the other hand has the ability to beat anyone, I'm not saying he will beat anyone every time. That would equally as bias as a lot of your claims RiseToTheTop. However he has the chin to keep him in all fights, he has the confidence and self belief to never be intimidated, and with Wlad he has the physical attributes that would give him an edge. I'm not saying he is the best ever but he is in the category of greatest ever fighters in my opinion. I would pimp myself out to see a Vitali Foreman fight.


That's some of my views on the brothers RiseToTheTop. Now if you don't mind i'm going to go back to thanking posts that I like.

cowzerp

walshb wrote: »

Even LL in his later career could be boring, safety first, but still a notch above Wlad in the action and excitement stakes.

Lennox Lewis was never exciting, he was always ultra cautious and was worse in his early career, taking the nothing fights most boxers have to build a record fights out of the debate as they're not fights

I have no problem with people even not liking certain Boxers styles, we all have our own likes/dislikes but it's when people try make the brothers out to be poor Boxers for it that it then is annoying and just pathetic.

And i'm talking about style not Technique, if they where technically poor i would have no problem with people calling them on it, i would myself.

Dohnny Jepp, Great post and Thanking a post is a good way of showing your in agreement with it without repeating the same thing so keep it up.

walshb

The bros are good boxers. Wlad better than Vitali. Still think Wlad can be very diffciult to watch. Efficient/technical or not I find him boring.

Lewis to me wasn't major exciting, but more than Wlad, that's for sure. And, every bit as good a boxer. He had a much better inside game and a better variety of shots. Plus, Lewis didn't **** his pants when hit clean. I know, he got knocked out, but he was far more relaxed and calm under pressure. Wlad looked so panicked and disorganised when hit clean by Sanders and Brewster

I mentioned it before, add Vitali' chin, toughness, clamness and confidence to Wlad's movement and fluidiness, and that is a hell of a fighter.

walshb

BTW, I wish Johnny Depp would post a little more. Always a succinct and insightful poster.

full_irish

and if he could cut acting in some shocking films at the same time that would be great!

RiseToTheTop

@Dohnny Jepp: A game of chess isn't an exciting fight for me. Maybe you are looking for the term "technically proficient". Maybe the original topic title should have been are the Klitschko's exciting, because they aren't to me.

How can you not find that style exciting?

I don't find Vitali's style exciting because he doesn't throw many punches. A "game of chess" (your words, not mine) isn't very exciting to me. When I tune into a fight I like to see the excitement, something that keeps me on the edge of my seat.

hitting a man with everythin you got and vitali walks through it, not even dazed.

When was the last time Vitali took a flush shot on the chin, or just a normal one? I can't remember, yet the way your worded the above quote makes it seems like Vitali does this every fight. More of your bias shining through.

Vitali can do the style you have mentioned because the fighters don't have the quality, will or heart to rush him, to drive him against the ropes. Look at Adamek, he tried to throw a punch but Vitali just jumped back everytime. A prime Tyson would have rushed Vitali. Think Chisora-Vitali, but much more than that. If Vitali met a prime Lewis he wouldn't have this style of keeping his hand down by his side. He wouldn't have gotten away with it. You can see this with a 38 year old past it Lewis.

You mentioned Lewis hit him with his best punches. Once again your bias is showing. This is a 38 years old, faded very overweight Lewis who was very tired after round 3. A prime Lewis would have thrown more punches and ones with more speed as he wouldn't have been so fatigued. Yet in your mind you build it up as "Vitali took Lennox Lewis's best shots, hit him with everything he had, but Vitali still stood undazed, walked through it all."

I think the brothers are of exceptional character. They bring a certain class to boxing, unlike the thugs off the street a lot of boxers portray themselves as. I find them very charismatic, however i admit it's the edgy charisma that can build a good promo for a fight, but it is a very likeable charisma.

BTW I don't give a damn about a fighters character. Tyson stole old womens shopping bags, he committed many crimes before he was 13. Liston broke people's legs for money, Ali called white people devils.

But it's all about the fighting. The ring is seperate from a person's private life, that is that.

Just because the public aren't familiar with the european and eastern european challengers does not make them nobodies.

Just because they are European and Eastern Europeans challengers and that they are unknown doesn't make them good on that quality alone. But IMO if there is a very good fighter around the public knows about him.

A popular opinion on this forum is that this is a weak era. Now calling this a weak era is simply as I said an opinion and an unfounded one at that. It certainly isn't fact. It's tough enough comparing the elite fighters of each era together not mind the challengers and journeymen which make up the era. Aside the golden era, every era is very similar. This is used as an argument to put the brothers down, "Yeah they are champions but they fight nobodies". Just because the public aren't familiar with the european and eastern european challengers does not make them nobodies. THe brothers have fought and continue to fight anybody who is willing to get in the ring with them. There is no more they can do. If you use this as a reason to put them down then you really are clutching at straws.

You claim that every era outside of the great area of the 60's-70's is the same? What about Tyson, Holyfield, Lewis, Riddick Bowe, Tua of the 80's-90's? That era is a lot stronger than this era IMO.

However, I'll bite make a contribution to the topic.

FYP.