It is announced that Ireland WILL hold referendum on EU fiscal compact treaty

Biggins · 28-02-2012 5:42pm

Deleted User wrote: »

I'll give you three guesses how I'll vote!

They will probably give us three votes till they guess we get it right!

marco_polo · 28-02-2012 5:43pm

Biggins wrote: »

Thats a very good question!
Thats honestly my point.

Part from what I have studied (personal, tort, business and contract law) and part from common sense.

I'm not arguing with yourself in particular dvpower or what you say.
I just have questions and see somethings right away from contractual basis.

All treaties are signed and then ratified by all parties.

How could you ratify a treaty before agreeing on the contents with the other parties involved?

humanji · 28-02-2012 5:44pm

DB10 wrote: »

Yeh well Yes to Lisbon, really did get us jobs didn't it.....

:rolleyes:

Vote no.

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/article/14101/business/citrix-creates-20-new-jobs-at-irish-operations

Yes it did. Still no army or forced abortions though...

This thread backs up my belief that voting should be a privilage and not a right. Is it any wonder that the country is f*cked when so many have decided to vote yes or no to a question they don't even know?

For once in your lives try and do something for the greater good. Wait for the information to be published and read the feckin' thing. If you don't understand something, ask questions. Don't jump to any conclusions, actually educate yourselves. Once you know the details, then you decide yes or no. It's not that difficult to do.

pandaboy · 28-02-2012 5:47pm

biko wrote: »

Referendum threads merged.

Pandaboy, only nmsvUE0JMSo should be within the youtube tags. Remove the rest of the URL.

Thanks for that.

knick_knack · 28-02-2012 5:48pm

CJC999 wrote: »

Obviously the government have their heads so far up their own arses that they are now completely detached from reality and have no realisation that there will be a resounding NO vote in this.

I understand that ireland needs a Yes vote however i'm going to vote No, just to see what happens.

I love that comment haha
Doing the exact same

lucylu · 28-02-2012 5:48pm

humanji wrote: »

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/article/14101/business/citrix-creates-20-new-jobs-at-irish-operations

Yes it did. Still no army or forced abortions though...

This thread backs up my belief that voting should be a privilage and not a right. Is it any wonder that the country is f*cked when so many have decided to vote yes or no to a question they don't even know?

For once in your lives try and do something for the greater good. Wait for the information to be published and read the feckin' thing. If you don't understand something, ask questions. Don't jump to any conclusions, actually educate yourselves. Once you know the details, then you decide yes or no. It's not that difficult to do.

I agree

I am afraid this is going to be a Referendum on the Government and not on the Fiscal Treaty.

gerryo777 · 28-02-2012 5:49pm

average_runner wrote: »

if Sinn Fein says vote NO, i vote YES:D

That's the type of balanced, considered view that we need:rolleyes:

padd b1975 · 28-02-2012 5:49pm

If the Shinners are saying vote no, that usually tells me to vote yes.

force eleven · 28-02-2012 5:50pm

Unless billions of euro of gambling debts are wiped from the back of Irish people forced into austerity - not a prayer will I vote Yes. And by the way, do you seriously believe if we voted no that this would somehow harm the bailout funds? Of course not - they need us to grow out of this or Europe falls financially.

Dont be bullied - vote No unless we get a really sweet deal from these bunch of European greed merchants.

prinz · 28-02-2012 5:50pm

Biggins wrote: »

I hear ya.
Its all a load of pre-emptive PR cock and bull for the cameras I suspect, half the time! PR fodder for the masses.

Pretty much. The US and Israel seem to be old masters of signing up to agreement they have no intention of ever ratifying, but I recall seeing a newspaper article a while ago about agreements Ireland had signed up to but never got around to ratifying, some of it was completely random stuff only the UN could come up with and you'd have to wonder why they were not ratified. Probably stuck in a pile of papers somewhere and forgotten about for decades.

That_Guy · 28-02-2012 5:51pm

Anyone listening to the Last Word? Shatter is being torn a new one by Matt Cooper.

"If you lose will you hold another one?"

Shatter didn't answer that one.

dvpower · 28-02-2012 5:52pm

humanji wrote: »

Wait for the information to be published and read the feckin' thing. If you don't understand something, ask questions. Don't jump to any conclusions, actually educate yourselves. Once you know the details, then you decide yes or no. It's not that difficult to do.

The only information that won't be contested will be the actual wording, which will be pretty simple.

Everything else will be spun wildly. By the end of the debate most people will *know* what they already *know*.

gerryo777 · 28-02-2012 5:54pm

force eleven wrote: »

Unless billions of euro of gambling debts are wiped from the back of Irish people forced into austerity - not a prayer will I vote Yes. And by the way, do you seriously believe if we voted no that this would somehow harm the bailout funds? Of course not - they need us to grow out of this or Europe falls financially.

Dont be bullied - vote No unless we get a really sweet deal from these bunch of European greed merchants.

That's exactly what we should be doing.

The amount of BS on this thread already is a joke.

It's a sad reflection of the intelligence of the Irish people.

Statistician · 28-02-2012 5:54pm

humanji wrote: »

http://www.siliconrepublic.com/news/article/14101/business/citrix-creates-20-new-jobs-at-irish-operations

For once in your lives try and do something for the greater good. Wait for the information to be published and read the feckin' thing. If you don't understand something, ask questions. Don't jump to any conclusions, actually educate yourselves. Once you know the details, then you decide yes or no. It's not that difficult to do.

Voting against the government is the greater good.

I'm not interested in reading their propaganda.

BeeDI · 28-02-2012 5:56pm

Sarkrazy, came to Dublin, to give moral support to Biffo, during the Nice 2 campaign.
So, the good news is we probably get to see the little sh1t, again in the flesh, kissing Enda on the lips, on the steps of the Dail:cool:

Nate--IRL-- · 28-02-2012 5:56pm

Biggins wrote: »

They will probably give us three votes till they guess we get it right!

This treaty is very very different to previous treaties. Ireland does not have a veto with this treaty - we can't stop Europe from implementing it. We can only stop it from being implemented here.

I don't think ze Germans give a **** how we vote - in fact they might be secretly happy to see us vote no. My guess is it is a one shot deal - the rest will be quite happy to proceed without us, and there is nothing we can do about it.

Nate

force eleven · 28-02-2012 5:57pm

gerryo777 wrote: »

That's exactly what we should be doing.

The amount of BS on this thread already is a joke.

It's a sad reflection of the intelligence of the Irish people.

This is a great chance to get the debt slashed. I do not believe the government hs the will or guts to push Europe into a deal. So if a No vote looks likely - which it could very well happen - then they will be forced by the PEOPLE to get something. Otherwise, we were looking at getting nothing or a few crumbs thrown to us. The unsecured bonds are the numero uno place to start - they absolutely must NOT be paid back anymore.

Biggins · 28-02-2012 5:57pm

marco_polo wrote: »

All treaties are signed and then ratified by all parties.

How could you ratify a treaty before agreeing on the contents with the other parties involved?

No argument there.
The signing up bit though is a bit 'funny'.
Do we really need to politically sign something to then talk about and debate further issues?

Rather... "Look lads and lassies, lets get our backsides into a room and sort this matter out" without the PR signing events, the cock and bull for the cameras!
Thats all.

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

This treaty is very very different to previous treaties. Ireland does not have a veto with this treaty - we can't stop Europe from implementing it. We can only stop it from being implemented here.

I don't think ze Germans give a **** how we vote - in fact they might be secretly happy to see us vote no. My guess is it is a one shot deal - the rest will be quite happy to proceed without us, and there is nothing we can do about it.

Nate

Well if we vote "No" - they will probably want us out too by giving us 'an offer we can't refuse' too - like Greece?

Nate--IRL-- · 28-02-2012 5:59pm

Biggins wrote: »

No argument there.
The signing up bit though is a bit 'funny'.
Do we really need to politically sign something to then talk about and debate further issues?

Rather... "Look lads and lassies, lets get our backsides into a room and sort this matter out" without the PR signing events, the cock and bull for the cameras!
Thats all.

I don't understand the issue you are having with this - every treaty Ireland has ever participated in follows this process. It is the same for the majority of countries in the world too.

Nate

Lollers · 28-02-2012 5:59pm

I'm glad the IMF are in control, so we can cut social welfare for the blind. I'm sure they would thank them, if they could see them.

BeeDI · 28-02-2012 6:00pm

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

This treaty is very very different to previous treaties. Ireland does not have a veto with this treaty - we can't stop Europe from implementing it. We can only stop if from being implemented here.

I don't think ze Germans give a **** how we vote - in fact they might be secretly happy to see us vote no. My guess is it is a one shot deal - the rest will be quite happy to to proceed without us, and there is nothing we can do about it.

Nate

Even the Germans, will acknowledge, that Europe cannot afford a no vote. It would be very damaging psychologically to the Euro, and would make a few more PIIGS, begin to OINK, OINK, at the prospect of rashers being made out of their arses within the "austerity", being demanded of them.

pandaboy · 28-02-2012 6:00pm

Or impose a new government with ex banking execs.

_Gawd_ · 28-02-2012 6:02pm

amacachi wrote: »

Deficit is the difference between income and spending. See how well cutting everything by 30% overnight would go down.

Go down how? So everyone is happy with government spending so long as it's not their money? Great little country we have - a bunch of useless spongers destroying any productivity a few of us have. We need to cut by billions...

dvpower wrote: »

You are living in a dreamland if you think we can simply start living within our means.

No, you're living in a dreamland to suggest we can continue to do this indefinitely. When will people ever understand that you can't borrow your way to prosperity.

force eleven · 28-02-2012 6:04pm

I guarantee Enda and Co are having a group face palming session this evening.

This may morph into a Pro-EU v Anti EU treaty - should we stay in or out?

Not what the referendum is about but hey-ho what the heck.

Nate--IRL-- · 28-02-2012 6:04pm

_Gawd_ wrote: »

No, you're living in a dreamland to suggest we can continue to do this indefinitely.

Who said that?

Nate

_Gawd_ · 28-02-2012 6:04pm

force eleven wrote: »

I guarantee Enda and Co are having a group face palming session this evening.

This may morph into a Pro-EU v Anti EU treaty - should we stay in or out?

Not what the referendum is about but hey-ho what the heck.

Definitely OUT.

It should have never grown past what it once was - free trade. That is IT.

gerryo777 · 28-02-2012 6:05pm

force eleven wrote: »

This is a great chance to get the debt slashed. I do not believe the government hs the will or guts to push Europe into a deal. So if a No vote looks likely - which it could very well happen - then they will be forced by the PEOPLE to get something. Otherwise, we were looking at getting nothing or a few crumbs thrown to us. The unsecured bonds are the numero uno place to start - they absolutely must NOT be paid back anymore.

I'm with you on this.
We can use this as a lever to try and get the promissory notes in our bankrupt banks written off.
As for these unsecured bondholders, today the IMF/ECB passed another €3.29 billion on to us, in 4 weeks we will give away €3.2 billion of that to unsecured bondholders.
It's time to grow a pair Enda!

dvpower · 28-02-2012 6:07pm

force eleven wrote: »

Dont be bullied - vote No unless we get a really sweet deal from these bunch of European greed merchants.

You want to be bought off?

gerryo777 · 28-02-2012 6:08pm

dvpower wrote: »

You want to be bought off?

That would depend on how much they would pay.....

Biggins · 28-02-2012 6:08pm

Nate--IRL-- wrote: »

I don't understand the issue you are having with this - every treaty Ireland has ever participated in follows this process. It is the same for the majority of countries in the world too.

This process does happen (never said it didn't) but all this pre-signing is just a load of (to me) PR cock and bull as I put it previously.

To reiterate,
"Look lads and lassies, lets get our backsides into a room and sort this matter out" without the PR signing events..."
...but politics need the cameras now and official signings for the masses.

Dear Europe,

I, the undersigned agree to discuss the matter at hand.
Yours sincerely,
Enda Kenny

...Now smile for the cameras Enda!

Its not going to make a blind bit of difference to the underlying issue but on a point of interest, just because others also "follows this process" doesn't make things right or validate them.

I would like to see exactly what the text is, of what he is signing on Friday!
Any chance of that Enda, just out of curiosity?
(Not a hope - we never get to see!)

It is announced that Ireland WILL hold referendum on EU fiscal compact treaty

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