Eircom eFibre VDSL/FTTC rollout – plans to reach 1.6m premises by mid 2016

ctlsleh

As far as I know all exchanges are ADSL2+ enabled already, so unless your within the 300M range to benefit from VDSL, then the only change will be the uncontested back haul from your exchange to the core network.....
For example..... I live 700 M from my exchange, im on a 12 M service, but my exchange is not fibre enabled, so I can get D/L speeds of anything from 3Mb to 10Mb......so the only difference for me in the future would be that I could get consistent 10Mb which isn't bad, but I will not benefit unless fibre is further deployed either to my home or at least closer to my home..... And that seems unlikely .........
I can upgrade to a 24M service later when the exchange is fibre enabled, and based on the line quality and distance, I would expect to get 15 M D/L and get that consistently once the exchange is fibre enabled, but until then I'll still have variable Quality......and whether we call it FTTC or NGB, doesn't really make any difference......is my logic correct?

arctan

all exchanges aren't ADSL2+

700m from exchange or cab ? and what do you mean not fibre enabled?

NGB is uncongested ADSL, FTTC is VDSL



TBC got a link to that please ?

Solair

belcampprisoner wrote: »

eircom is bankrupt

Not quite. They've actually managed to get into a fairly OK position, albeit with totally different shareholders.

They wrote off about 40% of their debt and wiped out all of their shareholders in the process. The company's now owned by a collection of creditors who did a debt for equity swap.

Eircom's current position is better than it has been in quite some time and their only hope of any kind of future is to get this rolled out. Otherwise, their whole domestic/small business market would simply disappear completely.

UPC's competition has finally stirred them into some kind of action!

At this stage, they either get their access network re-built and up to speed, or they will just continue to bleed customers. However, it does look like they are FINALLY doing this, albeit a good few years late.

Eircom's fibre backbone's actually pretty dense and they've improved capacity on it with their core network rebuild i.e. using way better technology to send data over the existing fibres that link exchanges. They've quite a lot of fibre in the ground compared to any other player in the Irish market, much of which dates back to Telecom Eireann days. New technologies make WAY better use of it.

So, they should have the backhaul for lots of very high speed connections when they get their crumbling access networks rebuilt with VDSL boxes.

This is really a case of do or die for eircom.

arctan

I dont think the do or die part is 100% true .... the core side of Eircom's pretty much holds this country together, with all major competitors piggybacking on it at some point (except maybe ESB and one or two others), and with a lot of major companies having private networks on, also there is a lot of dark fibre they maintain, if Eircom as a whole went, it would take an awful lot down with it, fixed and mobile ...

Residential fixed access customers is where they have the biggest market of, but also where their biggest losses are...
it's slowly creeping into business now with comreg's competition rules, same idea with residential, Eircom have to install the equipment, but OLO provides service for half the cost

ctlsleh

arcan, I'm 700 M from the exchange......that's what I meant by cabinet sorry if I caused confusion......
My point is that whether you call it FTTC or NGB, it doesn't matter, all it means is that the exchange is backhauled in fibre, so uncontested, but my point is that once you're more than 300 M from the exchange, you're stuck on your service just that it's uncontested as per my earlier example.......

Usually FTTC refers to GPON(or EPON) by the way......but I believe eircom are using DWDM......

Solair

arctan wrote: »

I dont think the do or die part is 100% true .... the core side of Eircom's pretty much holds this country together, with all major competitors piggybacking on it at some point (except maybe ESB and one or two others), and with a lot of major companies having private networks on, also there is a lot of dark fibre they maintain, if Eircom as a whole went, it would take an awful lot down with it, fixed and mobile ...

Residential fixed access customers is where they have the biggest market of, but also where their biggest losses are...
it's slowly creeping into business now with comreg's competition rules, same idea with residential, Eircom have to install the equipment, but OLO provides service for half the cost

Yeah, but the retail arm of eircom / the company itself could go down without all that core fibre network going anywhere.

The core's worth something, so's Meteor. The local access networks were let flounder for years so they're nowhere near as valuable as they should be, had they been invested in and maintained.

Basically, if eircom don't upgrade those access networks, they're cutting off a very vital revenue stream to themselves as people, especially in lucrative urban areas, will switch to cable and ultimately LTE networks and next generation Fixed Wireless Access could wipe them out in rural spots.

Their core network might get used in spots by competitors, but the likes of BT Ireland, ESB Networks and UPC have a lot of independent fibre and there are an ever-increasing range of options for access to international fibre networks.

But, I'd agree, the eircom core network of fibres is absolutely vast compared to their nearest compeditors and it does actually reach almost every part of the country where as the others tend to be mostly concentrated on cities and major hubs.

arctan

that's what I was getting at, about it not going 100% down

ctlsleh wrote: »

arcan, I'm 700 M from the exchange......that's what I meant by cabinet sorry if I caused confusion......
My point is that whether you call it FTTC or NGB, it doesn't matter, all it means is that the exchange is backhauled in fibre, so uncontested, but my point is that once you're more than 300 M from the exchange, you're stuck on your service just that it's uncontested as per my earlier example.......

Usually FTTC refers to GPON(or EPON) by the way......but I believe eircom are using DWDM......

it does really, FTTC means you'll be 700m from the cab working on VDSL2 ....... NGB is ADSL & ADSL2+ working on 700m to the cab, along with the length of line back to the exchange... different technologies, different distances

at 700m you'll still get circa 20 megs

even if you did change to the 24 meg package, with you only getting a max of 10meg with your current ADSL2, you'd struggle to get much more out of the line, may 2 or 3 more megs max

FTTC is VDSL2
FTTH is GPON

DWDM (well CWDM mostly at first) is what main exchange trunks are being upgraded to for NGN.

irishgeo

Anyone what's the hold up in launching this ?

Praetorian

irishgeo wrote: »

Anyone what's the hold up in launching this ?

The regulator Comreg / negotiations on a few topics / getting systems in place for the resellers. Are the main reasons I’ve heard

It’s incredible that this wasn’t all sorted ages ago. UPC must be loving it.

ctlsleh

So my understanding is that today we have the following
House - [100M to local Cabinet via Copper] - [600M to Exchange via Copper] - [DSLAM in the Exchange offering up to ADSL2+(24Mb)] Exchange to trunk? currently assume its copper STM1, as congested, but will be upgraded to Fibre DWDM(or CWDM as pointed out earlier), then uncongested = NGB

According to the NGN website, the exchange will be fibre enabled in Dec14, i assume that all that means is that the exchange gets More capacity and that the DSLAM gets upgraded to VDSL........?

there is no indication that fibre goes out to the cabinets and that the VDSL DSLAM resides there and this is where i think the confusion lay in our dialogue here so far.....which ive enjoyed by the way, its very informative. So my assumption has been that FTTC is really on FTTC to the exchange, so maybe thats a misconception on my part and thats why ive assumed that even if we get VDSL at the exchange, that nothing would change between the exchange and the cabinet and therefore my service wouldnt change as im 700M from the exchange.

However if what you are saying is that as part of the Fibre rollout and exchange upgrades that all the cabinets hanging off the exchanges will be upgraded with Fibre and with VDSL, so true FTTC, then that will have a significant impact for everyone thats within a 300M distance, maybe a liottle more from their local cabinets........thats cool...!

irishgeo

Praetorian wrote: »

The regulator Comreg / negotiations on a few topics / getting systems in place for the resellers. Are the main reasons I’ve heard

It’s incredible that this wasn’t all sorted ages ago. UPC must be loving it.

You think they have done that before they started putting cables in the ground.

MBSnr

irishgeo wrote: »

You think they have done that before they started putting cables in the ground.

Yeah it's a joke. My company has to renegotiate it's internet connection. We're on the MAN fibre supplied by eNet so only a selected number of carriers can provide the connection. They all lease from eNet, so the cost per month is in the 1000s of Euros. This for a non-managed service - just a pipe to the internet at 5mb up/down!

We can supposedly get Eircom fibre but they're aren't selling it to businesses yet. Rumour has it it'll won't be much more than the top end business DSL package. So in the region of 1/10 to 1/8 cheaper than the eNet connection price we currently pay.

If Eircom get this right they 'could' seriously clean up and make a massive amount of money from businesses.
What's the bet they'll do it right though.... ? In all my dealing with them (work + personal) they haven't managed to get much right TBH.

red_bairn

Tbh, they've had a few CEO's over a few years and just had a new one reinstated quite recently.

I was talking to an Eircom technician recently, who was fitting new phone line equipment outside my house, and he said there is a lot of work they have to do before work goes ahead. The new CEO has to look over accounts, work schedule etc etc. I don't even know how long that is, but this could be one issue in regards to the delay. There is also the money matter

irishgeo

red_bairn wrote: »

Tbh, they've had a few CEO's over a few years and just had a new one reinstated quite recently.

I was talking to an Eircom technician recently, who was fitting new phone line equipment outside my house, and he said there is a lot of work they have to do before work goes ahead. The new CEO has to look over accounts, work schedule etc etc. I don't even know how long that is, but this could be one issue in regards to the delay. There is also the money matter

i say its costs more to lay all the fiber than setup the back end.

red_bairn

irishgeo wrote: »

i say its costs more to lay all the fiber than setup the back end.

yeah, but what I'm saying is that people are crying about the whole procedure taking ages but not factoring in the fact that other items delay the process.

PseudoFamous

red_bairn wrote: »

yeah, but what I'm saying is that people are crying about the whole procedure taking ages but not factoring in the fact that other items delay the process.

Personally I'm crying about having to use broadband which tops out at 1mb/s during peak times, despite being in quite an urban area in *2013*. I don't care about how long it takes to get it rolled out, the fact of the matter is that it's absurd that we don't already have a connection that is usable.

red_bairn

PseudoFamous wrote: »

Personally I'm crying about having to use broadband which tops out at 1mb/s during peak times, despite being in quite an urban area in *2013*. I don't care about how long it takes to get it rolled out, the fact of the matter is that it's absurd that we don't already have a connection that is usable.

Well you have a connection that is usable but just a poor service. whereabouts do you reside?

PseudoFamous

red_bairn wrote: »

Well you have a connection that is usable but just a poor service. whereabouts do you reside?

Arklow. What's worse is the fact that the service has actually deteriorated to that, at one point we were getting 4mbps+, although it significantly dropped in speed in around 2008/9.

And quite frankly, no, 1mbps is not usable for anything but the most basic of activity.

arctan

ctlsleh wrote: »

So my understanding is that today we have the following
House - [100M to local Cabinet via Copper] - [600M to Exchange via Copper] - [DSLAM in the Exchange offering up to ADSL2+(24Mb)] Exchange to trunk? currently assume its copper STM1, as congested, but will be upgraded to Fibre DWDM(or CWDM as pointed out earlier), then uncongested = NGB

According to the NGN website, the exchange will be fibre enabled in Dec14, i assume that all that means is that the exchange gets More capacity and that the DSLAM gets upgraded to VDSL........?

there is no indication that fibre goes out to the cabinets and that the VDSL DSLAM resides there and this is where i think the confusion lay in our dialogue here so far.....which ive enjoyed by the way, its very informative. So my assumption has been that FTTC is really on FTTC to the exchange, so maybe thats a misconception on my part and thats why ive assumed that even if we get VDSL at the exchange, that nothing would change between the exchange and the cabinet and therefore my service wouldnt change as im 700M from the exchange.

However if what you are saying is that as part of the Fibre rollout and exchange upgrades that all the cabinets hanging off the exchanges will be upgraded with Fibre and with VDSL, so true FTTC, then that will have a significant impact for everyone thats within a 300M distance, maybe a liottle more from their local cabinets........thats cool...!

copper isn't STM-1, its a direct pair, specific to you, from the exchange out to your premises.

there are protocols at work here that there isn't worth going into much indepth, because there could be 3 or 4 different set ups in different exchanges ..

ADSL is backhauled on ATM, which is trunked over on STM-1 or STM-4 or STM-16 depending on the exchange.... this could then be overlayed on the NGN through C or DWDM ....

with FTTC, fibres will run out to your local cabinet, the VDSL DSLAM will be there, so essentially you'll be 100 m from the DSLAM and will be easily able to get 30 or 40 megs

Solair

The VDSL rollout will involve actually putting the DSLAM in the box on your street. Fibre is running from there back to the exchange. The exchange basically has a big router that's connected to eircom's NGN core network.

From what I gather the plan is to provide a dial tone & voice services on your line from the old AXE or E10 voice exchange that's always provided then, while the VDSL signals will be coming from the local node in the green box on the street.

I don't know if they'll offer totally 'naked VDSL' where you'd have no dial tone / analogue services and if you wanted landline it would be done through VoIP much like UPC do.

In theory it could provide something that's just like a suped-up version of the existing DSL products i.e. with microfilters and old-style voice, or it could provide a completely combined next generation product using a home gateway like UPC do without any legacy voice services coming over the line.

The original DSL product was backhauled on older ATM networks. Those exchange areas are generally fairly limited in what they can provide until they get an NGN connection at some stage in the future.

The NGN upgraded exchanges are backhauled on an IP network using MPLS (Multi-protocol Label Switching), and have a lot more capacity.

Eircom deployed a lot of DWDM to get a huge amount more capacity out of existing fibres. Remember, a fibre is just that - a glass fibre. What dictates how much capacity it has is how you send the light down it. DWDM just makes more clever use of the light spectrum being shone down the fibres.

We've had fibre in the Irish phone network since the early 1980s when the first digital rollouts began to happen. The technology has moved on a hell of a lot since the 1980s and 90s.

Eircom and almost every other wireline operator in the world has begun to move towards all-IP networks as they are no longer primarily providing telephone services as their core business.

ctlsleh

Solair wrote: »

The VDSL rollout will involve actually putting the DSLAM in the box on your street. Fibre is running from there back to the exchange. The exchange basically has a big router that's connected to eircom's NGN core network.

From what I gather the plan is to provide a dial tone & voice services on your line from the old AXE or E10 voice exchange that's always provided then, while the VDSL signals will be coming from the local node in the green box on the street.

I don't know if they'll offer totally 'naked VDSL' where you'd have no dial tone / analogue services and if you wanted landline it would be done through VoIP much like UPC do.

In theory it could provide something that's just like a suped-up version of the existing DSL products i.e. with microfilters and old-style voice, or it could provide a completely combined next generation product using a home gateway like UPC do without any legacy voice services coming over the line.

The original DSL product was backhauled on older ATM networks. Those exchange areas are generally fairly limited in what they can provide until they get an NGN connection at some stage in the future.

The NGN upgraded exchanges are backhauled on an IP network using MPLS (Multi-protocol Label Switching), and have a lot more capacity.

Eircom deployed a lot of DWDM to get a huge amount more capacity out of existing fibres. Remember, a fibre is just that - a glass fibre. What dictates how much capacity it has is how you send the light down it. DWDM just makes more clever use of the light spectrum being shone down the fibres.

We've had fibre in the Irish phone network since the early 1980s when the first digital rollouts began to happen. The technology has moved on a hell of a lot since the 1980s and 90s.

Eircom and almost every other wireline operator in the world has begun to move towards all-IP networks as they are no longer primarily providing telephone services as their core business.

Thanks Solair and at tan for the replies......this makes sense now

Separate question......i know there's a map available with locations of the exchanges....is there also a map on the cabinet locations? I want to check if there are any closer ones to my home

Cheers.....

Solair

I think a regular contributor on here has a map available online.

Also bear in mind many smaller eircom exchanges are only cabinets themselves. You can house a small Alcatel or Ericsson remote voice/ISDN exchange in a street cabinet these days. Eircom do this quite a bit now.

If you don't know where your local exchange is, just keep an eye out for an anonymous looking building with eircom vans outside. Small exchange buildings are no bigger than a shed. Larger ones are the size of a primary school and the major nodes are pretty big. Often look like a large office building with a big microwave tower on the roof.

Many of those buildings were designed to house older technology, so in a lot of cases they're vastly bigger than the digital exchanges that actually occupy the floor space.

In general, they're very bland looking, very anonymous buildings.

The cabinets are usually easy to spot. Google eircom cabinet to see what they look like and keep an eye out when you're walking the dog or whatever. You'll usually spot your local one.

Bear in mind though that distribution cabinets aren't used in rural areas very much and in some urban settings the junctions are under ground.

The VDSL cabinets are fairly obvious as they're brand new and you'll definitely notice a flurry of activity as the teams of techies install them. Lots and lots are required to cover an area.

bealtine

Solair wrote: »

I think a regular contributor on here has a map available online.

Is this what you the OP is looking for?
http://irelandoffline.org/2012/03/probable-eircom-fttc-locations-2/

irishgeo

Hmm the 1st half of ths year according to this article.
http://www.siliconrepublic.com/business/item/30622-eircom-says-300k-more-homes

Plans to build Ireland’s biggest fibre network


Earlier this week, research by Point Topic revealed Ireland is trailing the rest of Europe in terms of superfast broadband deployment and nowhere near the “digital heaven” envisioned by Neelie Kroes, vice-president of the European Commission, in her Digital Agenda.

However, Hribar said the company is on track with its strategy to deliver superfast broadband across Ireland. He said this morning that together with the rollout of the recently purchased 4G spectrum Eircom will be able to offer broadband speeds of up to 70Mbps by summer 2013.

“We are constructing Ireland’s largest fibre broadband network and today I am delighted to announce the locations of the next 300,000 homes and businesses across Ireland that will receive fibre broadband.”

The 300,000 additional homes and premises are in the key towns and districts in Carlow, Cavan, Clare, Cork, Donegal, Dublin, Kerry, Kildare, Kilkenny, Laois, Leitrim, Longford, Louth, Mayo, Meath, Monaghan, Offaly, Roscommon, Sligo, Waterford, Westmeath, Wexford and Wicklow.

“This phase of the network is scheduled to finish in December 2014 and will reach 1m premises. Eircom has already reached more than 150,000 premises and it is hoped that the network, which is available to all operators, will deliver services to customers in the first half of next year,” Hribar said.

arctan

example of the new FTTC cab

left is a standard High Security Eircom Cab, to the right is the FTTC with DSLAM ..... connected together with 2 x 100 pair cables looped into Eircom cab



Then this is the inside of the Eircom cab



E-side cable on the left, D-side in the middle, loop cable to FTTC cabinet on the right

this is a low density cab, higher density high security cabs will have an extension section placed on top.

Liamario

arctan wrote: »

example of the new FTTC cab

I have a similar cab set up a couple of hundred metres away. Will this have any baring on FTTC over FTTH; or is this the set up for all of them?

Hogzy

Have there been any announcements of the locations of the FTTH roleout. I know its a tiny percentage but id love to know what areas are getting FTTH. I would imagine they would be houses that were built in the last few years.

arctan

from what I remember the GPON FTTH cab is similar, but not the same, FTTH won't be rolled out in many more places (if any) any time soon, so depending on your location, it is most likely FTTC

red_bairn

arctan wrote: »

from what I remember the GPON FTTH cab is similar, but not the same, FTTH won't be rolled out in many more places (if any) any time soon, so depending on your location, it is most likely FTTC

We've an old white cabinet at top of the road connected to a green box.

lucernarian

arcctan wrote:

this is a low density cab, higher density high security cabs will have an extension section placed on top.

This extension section that I've seen on a few cabs, are they to house any of the FTTC equipment or just more space for the cables connecting to a FTTC cabinet beside it?