Super Rugby [Super 15] - General Discussion Thread

leftleg

Jake white leaving brumbies

more to follow

http://www.planetrugby.com/story/0,25883,16024_8940785,00.html

irishbucsfan

Yeah does anyone know where he's headed?

.ak

Yeah he was banging on about wanting to stay and keep coaching Australian lads when he was quizzed about the Ireland job...

Swiwi.

irishbucsfan wrote: »

Yeah does anyone know where he's headed?

No. But he's a big fish. I would wonder about Clermont? I can't think of anything else TBH that would up to his reputation.

Swiwi.

Kiwi_knock wrote: »

He can't be that upset about not getting the Australian job, has he not watched them lately. You are most likely right Swiwi that he has another job lined up. Big loss for the Brumbies

Australia just can't get an even break at the moment.

Jacovs

Reports from South Africa saying Jake White cited disappointment over missing out on the Aus job, and lack of desire to coach the Brumbies further.
There are also reports of him joining the Stormers for next year's Super Rugby, with the Sharks apparently also interested. Business interests in SA was also mentioned.

Swiwi.

Jacovs wrote: »

Reports from South Africa saying Jake White cited disappointment over missing out on the Aus job, and lack of desire to coach the Brumbies further.
There are also reports of him joining the Stormers for next year's Super Rugby, with the Sharks apparently also interested. Business interests in SA was also mentioned.

The only reason he didn't get the Australian job was, well, because he's not Australian. No doubt he could walk into a job in SA, although from memory he had major issues with SARFU over enforced quotas etc. Maybe he will be an assistant at a SA franchise while concentrating on business concerns. He's a very good coach, even if I don't warm (at all) to the style of rugby his teams play - but it's more often than not winning rugby.

the baby bull elephant

Argentina is being talked about.

Jacovs

That would be interesting, but not sure if he would. Certainly would be a nice challenge for him.

Kiwi_knock

A DESIRE to be closer to his sons in South Africa was a major factor behind Jake White's decision to quit the Brumbies mid-contract, according to captain Ben Mowen

http://www.foxsports.com.au/rugby/super-rugby/brumbies-captain-ben-mowen-says-family-missing-wallabies-job-led-to-jake-whites-south-africa-return/story-e6frf4qu-1226727311151?from=public_rss&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitterfeed

He seems to have gone about his leaving in the right way, bringing the players out for dinner and explaining his reasons for leaving.

So Laurie Fisher or Stephen Larkham for the top job. Brumbies game is centred on forward dominance so Laurie might be better suited for the job, but Larkham is the future of Aussie coaching so Brumbies might take the risk.

Jacovs

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Jake-White-to-become-Sharks-coach-20130926

Swiwi.

Jacovs wrote: »

http://www.sport24.co.za/Rugby/Jake-White-to-become-Sharks-coach-20130926

Fairplay to him. I guess I had forgot about Plumtree moving to Ireland, so Sharks could do with a new coach. Sharks perennial nearly-men of Super Rugby (?how many finals have they been in - at least 3 I would think), so might help them get silverware.

Jacovs

Swiwi. wrote: »

Fairplay to him. I guess I had forgot about Plumtree moving to Ireland, so Sharks could do with a new coach. Sharks perennial nearly-men of Super Rugby (?how many finals have they been in - at least 3 I would think), so might help them get silverware.

Plumtree left, but they got Brendan Venter in as Director of Coaching, and Brad Macleod-Henderson is the coach. I didnt think there was space for White.

Swiwi.

Jacovs wrote: »

Plumtree left, but they got Brendan Venter in as Director of Coaching, and Brad Macleod-Henderson is the coach. I didnt think there was space for White.

There should always be space for White...

Jacovs

John Smit must be laughing all the way. From player to CEO. First thing he done was fire his old boss. Second thing appoint his other old boss.

Buer

Jacovs wrote: »

John Smit must be laughing all the way. From player to CEO. First thing he done was fire his old boss. Second thing appoint his other old boss.

Indeed. Smells fishy. Plumtree takes the Sharks to the S15 final last season and is fired after an average season when they still have games left.

I suspect this was the aim some way out and everything else be damned given they had to pay Plumtree off for the next two years.

Swiwi.

Buer wrote: »

Indeed. Smells fishy. Plumtree takes the Sharks to the S15 final last season and is fired after an average season when they still have games left.

I suspect this was the aim some way out and everything else be damned given they had to pay Plumtree off for the next two years.

Lucky for Ireland!

Swiwi.

NZ's franchise coaches have put forward their ideas for a new Super Rugby comp

• Super 18
• SA x 6
• Aus x 5 + Japan x 1
• NZ x 5 + Pacific x 1 (Auckland based)
• No Argentinian franchise, but their players eligible to play in the SXV
• No longer have to play in a NZ franchise to represent the ABs
• Home/away in own franchise = 10 games
• Plus each of the overseas franchises = 12 games
• So 22 round robin games
• And then back to the old-fashioned 1/4, semi, final = 25 games total

Seems OKish

Buer

Where are they going to fit in the extra games? Another four games to be played by every side will surely have an impact on the international sides. Do they start three weeks earlier in January? Do they push out the Rugby Championship such that it runs directly into the autumn internationals?

It's a very interesting proposal but will certainly have to be some compromise elsewhere in the calendar if it is to be implemented.

Swiwi.

Buer wrote: »

Where are they going to fit in the extra games? Another four games to be played by every side will surely have an impact on the international sides. Do they start three weeks earlier in January? Do they push out the Rugby Championship such that it runs directly into the autumn internationals?

It's a very interesting proposal but will certainly have to be some compromise elsewhere in the calendar if it is to be implemented.

Yeah, I didn't link the article which seemed to contradict itself in places. At the moment the super xv lasts 23 weeks if I recall correctly.

Purely for logistical reasons (travel etc) I think it's better to have Argentinian players incorporated into existing franchises, rather than an Argentinian based franchise. Otherwise, the players get sick of airports. Pacific team based out of Auckland makes perfect sense...since that is where most Pacific Islanders live (!) as you well know.

And from NZ point of view, I have no problem with players representing NZ but playing super rugby in Australia or SA. It's completely different to playing Europe or Japan.

Things will no doubt change, what is certain is that SA will have at least 6 franchises. Everything else is still up for discussion. I really don't see SANZAR joining a European club competition, SA at a stretch, but I think they prefer to stay in SANZAR, where I reckon they would get more say than round a table with the Eng, French & Celtalians.

Edit: found this

Proposed competition structure for Super Rugby 2016

Conference A

S. Africa: Bulls, Cheetahs, Lions
Australia: Brumbies, Force, Rebels
New Zealand: Blues, Chiefs, Crusaders

Conference B

S. Africa: Sharks, Kings, Stormers
Australia: Reds, Tahs, Japanese team
New Zealand: Landers, Canes, PI team

- Conferences made up from seedings based on previous year's result

- Play every team in own country twice home and away (10 games)

- Play other six teams in conference once (6 games)

- 3 weeks of play-offs using World Cup format of quarter-final, semifinal and final (3 games)

- Top four teams from each conference make quarters

.ak

Possibility of midweek games somewhere?

Swiwi.

.ak wrote: »

Possibility of midweek games somewhere?

Would be surprised. ITM cup does it, but I don't see SXVIII having midweek games. I would be happy with a pacific team, japanese team (ie kiwi ex-pats...) and a marked increase in Argentinian presence in Super Rugby. One of the Argie props has signed on with the Highlanders for next season...not Figallo regrettably.

Jacovs

2014 Super Rugby fixtures been released.

Just loving the Bulls and Stormers fixtures...

Swiwi.

NZ Super XV squads for 2014 - transfers of note in bold

BLUES

Forwards: Tom McCartney (Auckland), Keven Mealamu (Auckland), James Parsons (North Harbour), Charlie Faumuina (Auckland), Sam Prattley (Auckland), Angus Ta'avao (Auckland), Ofa Tu'ungafasi (Auckland), Tony Woodcock (North Harbour), Tom Donnelly (Otago), Liaki Moli (Auckland), Culum Retallick (Bay of Plenty), Patrick Tuipulotu (Auckland), Kane Barrett (Taranaki), Luke Braid (Auckland), Jerome Kaino (Auckland), Steven Luatua (Auckland), Brendon O'Connor (Canterbury), Peter Saili (Auckland).

Backs: Jamison Gibson-Park (Taranaki), Bryn Hall (North Harbour), Piri Weepu (Auckland), Baden Kerr (Counties Manukau), Chris Noakes (Bay of Plenty), Pita Ahki (North Harbour), Ma'a Nonu (Wellington), Francis Saili (North Harbour), Jackson Willison (Waikato), Frank Halai (Counties Manukau), Benji Marshall (Auckland), George Moala (Auckland), Charles Piutau (Auckland), Lolagi Visinia (Auckland).

Wider training group: Joe Edwards (Auckland), Simon Hickey (Auckland), Tevita Li (North Harbour), Tom Murday (Northland), Albert Nikoro (Auckland).

CHIEFS

Backs: Robbie Robinson (Southland), Tom Marshall (Tasman), James Lowe (Tasman), Asaeli Tikoirotuma (Manawatu), Mils Muliaina (TBC), Tim Nanai-Williams (Counties Manukau), Robbie Fruean (Canterbury), Charlie Ngatai (Wellington), Bundee Aki (Counties Manukau), Andrew Horrell (Hawke's Bay), Aaron Cruden (Manawatu), Gareth Anscombe (Auckland), Tawera Kerr-Barlow (Waikato), August Pulu (Counties Mankau).

Forwards: Kane Thompson (TBC), Liam Squire (Tasman), Liam Messam (Waikato), Nick Crosswell (Manawatu), Tanerau Latimer (Bay of Plenty), Sam Cane (Bay of Plenty), Brodie Retallick (Bay of Plenty), Ross Filipo (Wellington), Mike Fitzgerald (Manawatu), Matt Symons (Canterbury), Ben Afeaki (North Harbour), Ben Tameifuna (Waikato), Jamie Mackintosh (Southlanf), Pauliasi Manu (Auckland), Josh Hohneck (Bay of Plenty), Hika Elliot (Counties Manukau), Mahonri Schwalger (Counties Manukau), Rhys Marshall (Taranaki).

Wider training squad: Carl Axtens (Bay of Plenty), Nick Barrett (Southland), Anton Lienert-Brown (Waikato), Tevita Kolomatangi (Tasman), Brad Weber (Waikato).

HURRICANES

Forwards: Mark Abbott (Hawke's Bay), James Broadhurst (Taranaki), Dane Coles (Wellington), Ash Dixon (Hawke's Bay), Ben Franks (Hawke's Bay), Reggie Goodes (Wellington), Jack Lam (Waikato), Faifili Levave (Wellington), Motu Matu'u (Wellington), Mark Reddish (Wellington), Ardie Savea (Wellington), John Schwalger (Wellington), Brad Shields (Wellington), Eric Sione (Wellington), Blade Thomson (Taranaki), Jeremy Thrush (Wellington), Jeffery Toomaga-Allen (Wellington), Victor Vito (Wellington).

Backs: Beauden Barrett (Taranaki), Marty Banks (Tasman), Tim Bateman (Wellington), Cory Jane (Wellington), Alapati Leiua (Wellington), James Marshall (Taranaki), Hadleigh Parkes (Auckland), TJ Perenara (Wellington), Matt Proctor (Wellington), Julian Savea (Wellington), Conrad Smith (Wellington), Chris Smylie (Taranaki), Andre Taylor (Taranaki), Cardiff Vaega (Southland).

Wider training squad: Chris Eves (Manawatu), Callum Gibbins (Manawatu), Adam Hill (Wellington), Billy Guyton (Tasman), Nehe Milner-Skudder (Manawatu).

CRUSADERS

Dominic Bird (Canterbury), Tyler Bleyendaal (Canterbury), Daniel Carter (Canterbury), Wyatt Crockett (Canterbury), Ryan Crotty (Canterbury), Israel Dagg (Hawke's Bay), Mitchell Drummond (Canterbury), Andy Ellis (Canterbury), Corey Flynn (Canterbury), Owen Franks (Canterbury), Ben Funnell (Canterbury) Zac Guildford (Hawke's Bay), Willi Heinz (Canterbury), Nepo Laulala (Canterbury), Rey Lee-Lo (Counties Manukau), Richie McCaw (Canterbury), Johnny McNicholl (Canterbury), Joe Moody (Canterbury), Nemani Nadolo (Tasman), Tim Perry (Tasman), Kieran Read (Canterbury), Luke Romano (Canterbury), Colin Slade (Canterbury), Jordan Taufua (Canterbury), Codie Taylor (Canterbury), Tom Taylor (Canterbury), Matt Todd (Canterbury), Jimmy Tupou (Counties Manukau), Adam Whitelock (Canterbury), George Whitelock (Canterbury), Luke Whitelock (Canterbury), Sam Whitelock (Canterbury).

Wider triaining group: Jed Brown (Canterbury), Kieron Fonotia (Tasman), Mike Kainga (Bay of Plenty), Rob Thompson (Canterbury), Nafi Tuitavake (North Harbour).

HIGHLANDERS

Forwards: Josh Bekhuis (Southland), Shane Christie (Tasman), Liam Coltman (Otago), Matias Diaz (Argentina), Elliot Dixon (Otago), Gareth Evans (Otago), Ma'afu Fia (Manawatu), Tom Franklin (Otago), Kane Hames (Bay of Plenty), John Hardie (Southland), Jarrad Hoeata (Taranaki), TJ Ioane (Otago), Chris King (Otago), Nasi Manu (Canterbury), Brayden Mitchell (Waikato), Brad Thorn, Joe Wheeler (Tasman).

Backs: Kurt Baker (Taranaki), Phil Burleigh (North Harbour), Jason Emery (Manawatu), Malakai Fekitoa (Auckland), Patrick Osborne (Canterbury), Hayden Parker (Otago), Buxton Popoalii (Otago) Willie Ripia (Bay of Plenty), Aaron Smith (Wellington), Ben Smith (Otago), Lima Sopoaga (Wellington), Winston Stanley (Western Force), Fumiaki Tanaka (Otago), Shaun Treeby (Wellington), Frae Wilson (Wellington).

Wider Training Group: Lee Allan (Otago), Richard Buckman (Hawke's Bay), Craig Millar (Otago) Trent Renata (Waikato), Ged Robinson (Hawke's Bay).

The Crusaders have signed Lote Tuqiri's cousin Nemani Nadolo, a Fijian international currently playing in Japan -1.95m, 125kg. Nice!

Edit: Canes have Cardiff Vaega, son of Samoan international Vaega snr, who "scored" a memoral try in Samoa's defeat of Wales at Cardiff in 1991 RWC. Replays showed the Welsh player actually grounded the ball, but no video ref in those days...

astonaidan

Random question, how is it the NZ clubs system works under super 15. Do they have to play for clubs in each province our could they play for Crusaders then be registered to Aukland

Morf

astonaidan wrote: »

our could they play for Crusaders then be registered to Aukland

Yes, Super XV team doesn't relate to ITM team.

A lot of lads play for the ITM team nearest their birth place.

thomond2006

Four Whitelock brothers, that's mad!

Morf

Can't say I'm too taken with any of the NZ Super XV jerseys.

Too much tribal stuff or chain-mail in the case of the Crusaders going on. Highlanders home the nicest.

Watched the ITM final yesterday and was frustrated at how illegal Canterbury were allowed to be at ruck-time and off-side in mid-field a lot. Their defence was praised and often remarked how slow the Wellington ball was. Wellington made a few poor mistakes that were pounced on but not too impressed with Chris Pollock.

Morf

thomond2006 wrote: »

Four Whitelock brothers, that's mad!

3 played for Canterbury in the ITM Final on Saturday with the other with the NZ squad.

Swiwi.

astonaidan wrote: »

Random question, how is it the NZ clubs system works under super 15. Do they have to play for clubs in each province our could they play for Crusaders then be registered to Aukland

Hey astonaidan. When super rugby first started, the NZRFU stipulated that all players had to play ITM for a province that was in the same franchise they played super rugby for. So taking someone like Israel Dagg who is from Hawke's Bay: if he played for the Crusaders, then the following season he would have had to play ITM for his pick of Buller, West Coast, Mid Canterbury, South Canterbury, Marlborough, Nelson Bays (the latter 2 now form Tasman)....or Canterbury (which of course he would have chosen). This meant Hawkes Bay was weaker the following season. Every time someone moved super franchise, they invariably chose the main city of that franchise: moving to the Hurricanes - why would you play for Manawatu or Taranaki, when you can play for Wellington?

It became a real sore point for unions like Hawkes Bay, Bay of Plenty, North Harbour etc.

So about 5 to 10 years ago, the NZRFU changed the rules and made ITM and super rugby contracting completely independent of each other. So now Zac Guildford still plays for Hawkes Bay, even though he plays for the Crusaders; Ben Franks plays for Tasman, even though he represents the Hurricanes and so on.

The other thing they did was drop the names Canterbury, Auckland etc from the super franchises so just Blues, Crusaders, Hurricanes. This was spurred on by Todd Blackadder thanking all the supporters from Buller, West Coast etc when the "Canterbury" Crusaders won one of their super titles.