Bray airshow 2012

EIDW

The Bray Air Spectacular 2012 will be held on Sunday 22nd July, start time is 3.30pm.
No update on what's attending

Teddy Edward

More of the same....it has gone from bad to boring!!

Wont be going this year i am afraid

emo72

need a couple of real noisy f16s or f somethings, shake the living bejaysus out of us and reduce children to nervous wrecks. thats what im talking about.

Teddy Edward

With the current Defence cutbacks the Air Corps may now be restricted from flying....so that will leave the coastguard, Eddie Goggins ( who is brilliant ) and Aer Arran / Cityjet flypasts!!

I think the original organisers are no longer involved and it is now been run by some Aer Lingus pilot on a part time basis with the Summerfest team:mad:

airbusa320

According to flying in ireland magazine ther will be a hawker hunter displaying this year.:)

Run_to_da_hills

emo72 wrote: »

need a couple of real noisy f16s or f somethings, shake the living bejaysus out of us and reduce children to nervous wrecks. thats what im talking about.

Or better still, the Vulcan bomber.

An air show needs a decent prop to get my interests.

Darius.Tr

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Or better still, the Vulcan bomber.

An air show needs a decent prop to get my interests.

I am hopeing to see vulcan bomber in portrush this year.

Teddy Edward

Hunter...believe it when i see it as that was meant to appear some years ago with the Gnats!!
They obviously have no contacts with any military teams in Europe because look at the line up Salthill used to get and what Portrush gets now.

airbusa320

Anything foreign military would be great, I know we got a USAF C130 last year but again was not advertised like the b-52 the previous but still the hunter would be a great addition if it shows up.

Teddy Edward

The Red Arrows displayed at Salthill for about 5 years ( nearly in a row ) so how come these guys cannot attract this team with the demise of Galway?? I was talking to someone at Weston last week and they said all is organised for Bray at the last minute.

Look at what Galway has had over the years, F-15, F-16, A10, B1, Tornado, Jaguar, Typhoon, Mirage.....i can keep going!! Even the airshow cancelled for Punchestown in 2010 had the Red Arrows, Swiss team, F15's and Typhoon so it must be more the lack of contact / experience of the organisers.

My advice, head north to Portrush! Great show with Salthill lineup:)

chughes

Now that the Queen has visited Ireland maybe the organisors could arrange for a Battle of Britain flypast. I would imagine that there would be huge interest in seeing a Lancaster, a Spitfire, and a Hurricane sweeping up the beach at Bray.

The slower flypast speed would greatly enhance the experience and the sound of the Merlin engines would be music to the ears.

As a cherry on the cake, if a Messerschmidtt 109 could "bounce" them and a small dogfight took place, that would be some spectacle.

I suppose I might as well dream here as in bed

Run_to_da_hills

Darius.Tr wrote: »

I am hopeing to see vulcan bomber in portrush this year.

A waste of a journey last year although the F16's performance kind of made up for it.

Darius.Tr

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

A waste of a journey last year although the F16's performance kind of made up for it.

Hopefully this year will be better, i hope red arrows and vulcan bomber will come.

Teddy Edward

Yes agree, Belgian F16 was awsome and well worth the trip.

I also see on the organisers site for Bray www.simtech.ie they are looking for sponsorship? Yet the Bray air display site lists 15-20 sponsors and the summerfest site lists about 30 including Simtech? Something funny in that! Maybe the excuse will be no sponsorship....hence the lineup!!

All looks very ameteur!!

xflyer

The Salthill organisers had a lot of contacts built up over the years. It started small just like Bray. It didn't just get that big overnight. So save your criticisms of the organisers of the Bray airshow. If you think you can do better offer to help or organise your own airshow. I know the people involved, they are proper aviators and no amateurs.

The big problem is money. Many airshow participants are professionals and require paying. Other just need expenses covered but it's still expensive. Then there's the whole ground organisation thing. That costs a fortune. In the end that killed Salthill, that and the lukewarm and mealy mouthed attitude of local businesses and politicians in Galway.

There is nothing wrong with the Bray airshow. It's a small airshow in a small town in a small country. It's not the RIAT. Better a small free to visit airshow than none at all.

Chicken1

You could never have a team like the Red Arrows in Bray due to Bray head which would be a major issue for a large team like the Arrows, they start a lot of their display a long way out and travel in a straight line from both ends then go into their routine. I would say this year is going to be a very difficult one for air shows due to the increase in fuel charges etc.

Teddy Edward

Chicken 1, Agree with your comments re Bray Head...not great datum when you consider it is 800ft high!!

Xflyer, I am not having a go at the organisers, i just think military acts could be attracted as most ( excluding Red Arrows ) are free. It's 7 years now this year so you can hardly call it a new airshow:o

armchair pilot

Guys I agree with most of comments above. This is their 7th attempt at this event. Compare this to Salthill where it was after 7 years........... brilliant international military and civil acts. The organisers of Bray seem to have lost interest couple years ago. Everything seems to be left to the last minute...... no real thought or original ideas. I agree as well that the lads organising Punchestown in 2010 had a fantastic line up. Some amazing original acts that were never seen in Ireland before....... fair play to them............ and damm the promoters for pulling the plug on them. Maybe the Bray guys could take a leaf or two from their book !!!

Teddy Edward

What will happen if the defence cutbacks restrict the Air Cor from taking part?

It will be all over in 20 mins:D

Duffer2010

I wouldn't have thought military acts would cost money to invite over. When the Bray airshow started out in 05' (I think) it was actually a good little show. Line up included the Air Corps Spitfire, Jet Provost, Dutch airforce PC7 and an excellent display by a formation of IAC Gazelle, Dauphin and Alouette. The main problem with the recent shows is lack of diversification, with mainly small prop aerobatic aircraft being the staple and lack lustre singleton Air Corps displays.

Teddy Edward

Duffer,
2005 was organised by different people hence the line up and quality of acts for a 1st show. I know the two guys who led the team in 05 and they have alot of experience and contacts on the airshow scene in Europe.

The Red Arrows even appeared at the press launch for the show in 05

Plane Jane

Airshows in Ireland....emmm
I remember the good days in Fairyhouse in the 70's then Baldonnel in the 80's and 90's. What happened those great shows. I do recall speaking to someone recently about the last show held at Baldonnel in 2000 and all the politics involved with the organisers and funny going on etc. A show has not been held at Baldonnel since! 12 long years this year!
I do think Salthill filled the gap that Baldonnel left behind and became a full blown international airshow up to its last show. Galway even had the USAF Thunderbirds (will we ever see them in Ireland again) and all those years with excellent USAF / RAF displays. I wish i could say that Bray has filled Salthills gap but it hasn't and dont think it ever will. I have reviewed the comments over the last couple of pages and in principal i agree 100%. I know how hard it must be in the current climate to raise funds to put on these sort of shows but events like this should grow. I understand the organisers are doing all for the love of aviation but if a decent show cannot be put on then probably best not to run it at all.
Salthill has suffered from lack of financial support and this is the reason it has not happened in the last few years. Just think if Salthill ran this year with the same line up as Bray.....it would loose any credibility it has built up over the last 10-12 years and be slated.
I hope i dont come across too negative and i wish the organisers of Bray 2012 the best of luck with the event this year.

newcavanman

I think the unfortunate fact is that, in this country, it is unfashionable to have a military airshow . You can just picture them lining up to have a go, the anti israelis, the anti americans, anti war, its like a bloody industry in this country .
The simple fact is , that airshows, particularly sea front shows, need miliatary fast jets and/or large aircraft, eg C-17/B-52 . I think Bray has made some effort but the lack of fast jets has scuppered them i think. if you remeber Salthill, particularly the last couple of years, it was fantastic . The Marinefleiger Tornados , various RAF fast jets it was the business . i dont know how they might get to arrange them, but if Bray can manage to, they have a real future

A320

The Salthill show started to get negative publicity from the 3 or so members of the 'galway anti war movement' or ''rent-a-crowd'' as the gardai call them,i remember in the final year of it RTE showed a clip of all 3 of them in mass protest banging pots while the other 100k people watched the Thunderbirds!!!!

Id love to see it back,me and a few others used to make a weekend of it,the fact it was in galway added to it as it has the best nightlife in Ireland,I have never been to bray but i'l give it a go this year,it deserves support if people are working very hard to piece it together

nungesser

the bray airshow wasn't as good last year as it had been in previous years, but the thing to remember is it's free, and it's always cool to get that close to low flying helicopters, I live in Greystones so it's no big deal for me to jump on the dart, have a hot dog and a beer and watch a few airplanes. but it did seem rather short last year and a bit of the same thing i've seen before. The U.S. military can be very accommodating all you got to do is ask them as we saw with the B-52 fly by the other year. The thing is, its staged at the height of the airshow season so a lot of acts that it would be great to have come over are already booked elsewhere. Still as much as we'd all like it to be epic, it is free and better than most things you might do on a weekend afternoon

Duffer2010

Ok on a positive note, a Hunter will display. It's probably one of the most impressive aircraft that has ever appeared. What could they realistically add to the lineup given the location and the possible poor monetary situation....

• Black Cats, an impressive Royal Navy two ship display team. The RN Lynx have been in Baldonnel on training flights several times so could be an easy contact??
• Hurricane, one of these was muted for the never to be Punchestown Airshow a couple of years back. Given the IAC connection, it would be great to see one in Irish skies again.
• Aerostars, these guys appeared back in 05'. Flying 6 Yaks they would be a nice alternative to the Blades

Plane Jane

Well for starters...

RAF - Red Arrows ,Typhoon, Merlin, Hawk, Chinook, BMF
USAF - F15, F16, Blackhawk
Dutch / Belgian F16, Apache
French - Rafale, Mirage 2000, Patrouille de France
Swedish - Gripen
Italy - Tornado, AMX,

TW Mr Tayto

Plane Jane wrote: »

Well for starters...

RAF - Red Arrows ,Typhoon, Merlin, Hawk, Chinook, BMF
USAF - F15, F16, Blackhawk
Dutch / Belgian F16, Apache
French - Rafale, Mirage 2000, Patrouille de France
Swedish - Gripen
Italy - Tornado, AMX,

Red arrows, typhoon, chinook, F15, two different F16s, Blackhawk, Apache and Rafale for "STARTERS"?!

Your expectations are very high Mrs Jane (assuming from your username), if that was for starters, what would be your middle ground?

stopthepanic

Chicken1 wrote: »

You could never have a team like the Red Arrows in Bray due to Bray head which would be a major issue for a large team like the Arrows, they start a lot of their display a long way out and travel in a straight line from both ends then go into their routine.

you are probably right that they could not display at Bray but they did do a fly-by at the inaugural air show in 2005.

http://www.braypeople.ie/news/red-arrows-take-to-the-sky-over-bray-589797.html

Teddy Edward

I see the RAF Hawk display aint doing Bray either......visiting Northern Ireland twice though!!

Me thinks invites are not even been sent:mad:

Bray is alot closer than Portrush to Valley and prob 75% of the other display season for the Hawk

Stovepipe

Hi all,
What has prevented some acts from appearing is that promised facilities were not waiting for them or expected fuel was not available or promised hangarage was not available. That was the case at Bray and Aer Lingus last year. With regard to getting Military acts to appear, quite often, they operate on a Govt to Govt basis and will only appear if they are guaranteed fuel(and oil and oxygen,etc,etc)/hangarage/accom/grub/ground transport well in advance from the State. Sometimes, they will appear if it's just a flypast, which is easily dealt with.So, if you want the RAF, in whatever guise, to appear at an Irish airshow, they have to be guaranteed that they will be accomodated in Baldonnel, as a default, if rain stops play or an aircraft goes u/s on the day and can't be flown home. Otherwise, they'll only do a flypast, if they can fit it in.
It is an ever abiding constant of Irish airshows that they operate on hasty promises, goodwill, old pals act, prayer, faith, drink, telephones melting from overuse and a smidgen of actual professionalism. They have as much smoke and mirrors as a Las Vegas magic act and the amazing thing is that, quite often, they work, or at least, the public face does.

regards
Stovepipe

Teddy Edward

Eh.....Stovepipe,

The Red Arrows in 2005 operated from Dublin Airport:o

The Red Arrows appearances from 2000-2006 at Galway operated from Shannon:o

Up to the organisers to provide transport, meals and accommodation:o

Stovepipe

Hi there
I'm perfectly aware that they operated from civil airports but if you read my post it says "as a default". That's what my former Air Corps Boss told me, as part of the handling staff for two big shows in Baldonnel. When it came to the RAF, Red Arrows included, especially if anything went wrong, the default location was Baldonnel, most especially if there was a security issue. Some bigger or faster aircraft could not use Baldonnel because of limited runway length so their default was Dublin or Shannon. As for organisers, you'd be surprised how often the basics get forgotten in the rush, such as the famous lack of liquid oxygen for the visiting fighters at not one but two Baldonnel airshows. Bit like swans, really. Nice and smooth on top with frantic pedalling underneath;)

regards
Stovepipe

Teddy Edward

The Dublin / Shannon preference is an operational one as to do with runway length at Baldonnel ( excessive braking )

Just to clarify,
The organiser(s) invite participation from foreign Air Forces and if successful provide transport, meals, accommodation and all the ground support requirement that is needed. The DAA have been very proactive in this regard with Shannon and Dublin. All of this is outlined in the T&C's of participation to support the airshow if it is not arranged they wont show. It wasn't just oxygen that was forgotten at Baldonnel in the past:o

Maybe that is the reason for operating out of Dublin & Shannon as the primary airport.

Lapin

Stovepipe wrote: »

It is an ever abiding constant of Irish airshows that they operate on hasty promises, goodwill, old pals act, prayer, faith, drink, telephones melting from overuse and a smidgen of actual professionalism. They have as much smoke and mirrors as a Las Vegas magic act and the amazing thing is that, quite often, they work, or at least, the public face does.

regards
Stovepipe

That, my friend, is deeply insulting to the organisers of many airshows in this country over the years.

The vast majority of who volunteer their own free time to do so.




Its also a load of bollox.

LordSutch

EIDW wrote: »

The Bray Air Spectacular 2012 will be held on Sunday 22nd July, start time is 3.30pm.
No update on what's attending

Very disappointing event going by previous years, spectacular indeed :cool:

They should get the guys from Valley to fly across the water for an hour or two.

Plane Jane

I lived up to recently in the UK and was involved in several airshows over the last 10 years in England.
Edward you are correct in what you say regarding inviting military acts as any cost falls to the organiser as does the invitation to attend.
With all the proposed defence cutbacks it will be harder to attract overseas military acts in the future.

Plane Jane

I see RAF Tucano have released display dates also!

http://www.raf.mod.uk/tucanodisplayteam/displayinfo/displaycalendar.cfm

airbusa320

RAF Tucano in sunderland that day.
I cant see Bray getting to much military this year again the best we can hope for is some U.K display teams.
As good as the blades are it would be nice to see the gnat jet team or even the Aerostars this jear or even a Spitfire would be nice ?

Stovepipe

@lapin,
Having been behind the scenes on three of the big ones, I assure you that it's less of an insult and closer to fact. Failure to communicate at all levels is the big constant failure and it always comes up in the debriefs afterwards. Some of the shows were/are well run and go near enough to plan and have good contingency planning for the big and the small crises but others are a fumble from day 1 and only succeed by accident. I remember one show that had it's organising committee picked out of a select bunch of old pals, who, individually were nice competent guys but collectively couldn't manage a wheelbarrow. My personal preference is for small shows where you don't have to lose sleep worrying about whether X has enough portapotties on hand or Y has enough car park attendants.

regards
Stovepipe

xflyer

Agree with Stovepipe. This is Ireland after all. Seen it first hand myself.

xflyer

Just found out the Red Arrows will be at Salthill this year during the Volvo Ocean race finish. Also, intriguingly there is mention of another 'military aerobatic team' as yet unnamed. Frecce Tricolori? Patroulle de France?

Most interesting.

Storm 10

No Red Arrows for Volvo Race

Link: http://www.galwaynews.ie/24740-red-arrows-air-show-volvo-week-shot-down

Aerohead

I hear that the Red Arrows are not looking good this year for a full season, they are down to seven aircraft and with the loss of the pilot last week and the tragic events of last year they are going to be starting the season later than planned, that would tie up with the cancel for the Volvo race. Shame but understandable in the circumstances. Check out their website it has not been updated since last year this never happened before they were always posting news etc on a weekly basis.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/displayinfo/displaydates.cfm

vulcan57

Their page here says that they will be operating with a 7 ship format this year but nothing about reducing the number of events.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/reds/teamnews/index.cfm?storyid=A5F14AB0-5056-A318-A8DF51286FC5024E

They arrived at RAF Akrotiri in Cyprus yesterday for their training. I would imagine the main reason for them cancelling an appearance at VOR would be that RIAT 2012 is on that weekend and they are confirmed for there.

airbusa320

Looks like most of the U.K airshows got there RAF assets this week and still not a word from Bray of what will be attending this year looks like Portrush is getting the Typhoon

Teddy Edward

No surprise in that....and Portrush is probably the same age as Bray now!

I think the Blades will be the only UK act as per previous years...zzzzzzz

Plane Jane

i think bray needs to diversify into maybe vintage aircraft as part of the show. relying on foreign military acts wont grow the show. 2012 is the seventh year of the show and it should establish itself as the only show now in ireland.

while the blades are an excellent team they are not the red arrows and maybe the organisers need to wake up to this. plenty more civil teams out there!!

balkanhawk

Fast jets and Bray head do not mix!! It is simple really. No matter how much people whinge about the the organisers, this is the main issue and will be into the future (unless we can see the hill to the IMF/EU!).

Im sure the organisers do the best they can with the location. 80,000 people attended the 2011 airshow, not bad when you consider Salthill attracted just north of 100,000. I had a great day lazying around on the side of the headland and there is plenty to do on the seafront itself.

Instead of whinging about what isn't going to be there because of the huge rock why not try and petition the appropriate authorities to setup a new show at a location where a full lineup can be expected?

Duffer2010

Sure they haven't even updated the website, apart from changing the date for this year. Plane Jane is right diversification is the key to this show. You could easily have the Hawk display team, within the location. I wonder how feasible it would be to have a show at one of the regional airports? Maybe that is the way forward.

xflyer

I wonder how feasible it would be to have a show at one of the regional airports?

Galway, the only sound out there these days is wind whistling around the empty baggage trolleys. Maybe the new owner will do something.