Time limit for dole?

theg81der

I`m on the dole and I agree that if someone refuses to look at other sectors or won`t retrain there should be penalties, particularly if they take up a place on a course and don`t turn up.

Realistically there are very few jobs thou and as someone said qualified accountant are doing internships so how is someone like me, who just finished college and is looking for a training contract, suppose to get anywhere?

I`m applying to a hdip in computing aimed at accouting or business student to try to move into a different area and provide employers with more skills. I have been applying for internships and haven`t got them and will continue to apply for anything I can. Social welfare won`t go after the people they really should - I think there afraid of people from certain areas and don`t want to tackle the issue.

Also some of the people signing off on the sick should be examined eg. those claiming to suffer from depression, given I only know one person in this situation who is not genuine so that colours my opinion a bit.

Someone posted misleading fact earlier about the boomtime unemployment. They did not account for frictional or structural unemployment and failed to realise that these figure may not relate to money payed out. What we are currently experencing is cyclical unemployment and is completely different.

token101

Lisa2011 wrote: »

I agree that some work is better tha none at all but if your not getting offered any type of job and are constantly getting rejection letters like many peeople I know are what are you meant to do?

I do know people who get up and turn on the tv to watch murder she wrote and the are not lazy. They are willing to do anything but are being rejected all the time because of a lack of experience

If you are offered a job that pays the minimum wage and is 100 miles away and your only option is to rent close to where you working would you do it if you ended up with not enough money to live on after you pay taxes. I know a friend who is in the situation and regretably had to turn down a job because he would not have enough money to raise his child, pay his bills and his mortgage and buy food and he actually would be losing alot of money on rent and bills for the rented accomodation before he would get paid for the job.

Well you said orginally, 'Should people take whatever is offered?', I say yes. If work is not offered, the question doesn't arise. You're supposed to keep looking and hope that something will turn up. Not easy and soul destroying at times, but still necessary.

Well if you haven't the experience then get the experience. We still have BTE allowances from what I know of, and there's Springboard now aswell. Plus there's Job Bridge. Bottom line being, there's no excuse for young, childless people to be sitting around doing FA. And I believe they are the people that the government is targeting primarily for cutting off.

That's a fault with the system. When people have to turn down jobs because they get more on welfare, we're in trouble. Whether it's a case of cutting benefits to make work seem more attractive or subsidising his rent for a set period or whatever I don't know, but benefits should never be more than paid work. Maybe there's an argument for cutting benefits and subsiding childcare for those taking up offers ie new jobs, Fás, Job Bridge, BTE, whatever.

syklops

Lisa2011 wrote: »

Incase those who believe everyone on the dole is a sponger and are thinking I am one because I am posting so much I just wanted to let them its my job off for my part time job.

I dont think anyone on boards thinks everyone one the dole is a sponger(and anyone who does is a muppet), but if an individual as been on the dole for 10+ years questions need to be asked.

Lisa2011

Like I mentioned I have part time work. I also have a certificate and a degree. I have experience to go along with the certificate I got but sadly none for the degree. I dont have a problem with returning to education and retraining but the industry I would like to get into is suffering.

What I wanted to do with my degree is not possible anymore because thousands of jobs are being cut in my choosen sector across the world.

Leaving is not an option for me. I am single and anyone I know that is my age are married and have kids so there is nobody to go with. I admire those who love travelling and dont mind doing it on their own but its not for me.

Australia put limits on who they let in and so do other countries so why cant Ireland do it. We are not being racist by doing this.

Biggins

Article In Mail:

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8782/img737b.jpg

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7549/img738b.jpg

Lisa2011

syklops wrote: »

I dont think anyone on boards thinks everyone one the dole is a sponger(and anyone who does is a muppet), but if an individual as been on the dole for 10+ years questions need to be asked.

Questions do need to be asked but if your constantly being told you have too much experience to do jobs you are qualified to do like some of my relatives are being told and you are trying to get jobs outside the country, then your not a dole sponger for being on the dole for so long.

_feedback_

Joan Burton wrote:

If they fail to co-operate their payment will be reduced . . . . it would be a case of where opportunities are offered, whether for work, education or training, and are refused.

Fair enough so. The only people that could still struggle with that are the people that can't afford to make a move or pay for transport etc and are forced to refuse.

cordni

Well isn't it great that you are so optimistic. The reality is the jobs are not there. I am experienced in my field of work and am educated to masters level. I was unemployed for one year and was unable to find any work. I didn't care what work I did and now count myself lucky that I have been in a temping job for the last few months. It makes me sick when people who are in permanent jobs make stupid comments about everyone on the dole not wanting to work. Get with reality, that couldn't be further from the truth. I would gladly take a job with social welfare to investigate false social welfare claims - but alas I wouldn't hold my breath for such a job offer.

hondasam wrote: »

It's not a rotten attitude imo. I'm sick of peoples attitude's here, there are some jobs out there but people are not willing to work for the crap money.

I will not be losing my job but if I did I would get another one.

Lisa2011

Biggins wrote: »

Article In Mail:

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8782/img737b.jpg

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7549/img738b.jpg

That article makes me sick. The training courses run by FAS are crap and not suited to the difficult times we are in and there are too many people retraining and doing the same courses.

Do the Troika seriously think people are refusing the offer of a job? Maybe there are people who do refuse a job they are offered so punish them instead.

Dont punish those who are truely seeking work and cant get one job offer.

Other countries may have limits for the dole but thats because there are plenty of jobs to go around

Joan Burton said cutting payments was not an option because the money is spent and not saved.

If people cant get work are the meant to be broke and starve.

Nyan Cat

Benefit won't be cut if you can show you are actively looking for work. So it won't affect graduates etc that fire off CVs do long as they keep a record and follow up on those applications with a phone call.
But if it comes into effect they need clear rules. They can't expect people to take a job offer of a cleaner in Sligo if they live in cork.

Lisa2011

hondasam wrote: »

k

You know there are working people in this situation, it's not just people on the dole who are suffering.
Because of travelling and pay cuts I have moved nearer my job, it means renting and paying a mortgage and only going home on days off.

I agree with you. I have cousins in this situation. I also know they earn enough to be able to pay rent and a mortgage

Logical Fallacy

More smoke screening from the government who cannot create a single job in this country...and the angry masses are loving it.

Hilarious stuff.

Nothingbetter2d

Biggins wrote: »

Article In Mail:

http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/8782/img737b.jpg

http://img267.imageshack.us/img267/7549/img738b.jpg

guess which party doesnt was to be relected next time..... being unfair to IT people with only 3 months when everyone else gets 6 months. no equality rights there i see

Lisa2011

Nyan Cat wrote: »

Benefit won't be cut if you can show you are actively looking for work. So it won't affect graduates etc that fire off CVs do long as they keep a record and follow up on those applications with a phone call.
But if it comes into effect they need clear rules. They can't expect people to take a job offer of a cleaner in Sligo if they live in cork.

So you basially apply for anything and everything even if you dont have experience and put up with constant rejection. There are people out there who cant take rejection well and get sick of applying for jobs all the time without success.

If people are to get off the dole jobs need to be created and if people have the skills for the job experience should not matter

MungBean

Lisa2011 wrote: »

Do the Troika seriously think people are refusing the offer of a job? Maybe there are people who do refuse a job they are offered so punish them instead.

The troika dont give two flying fcuks what the people are doing they just want costs down to better enable the government to repay the bailout. Joan Burton doesnt give two flying fcuks what she has to do (which seems isnt much other than following orders) as long as she gets her salary, perks and pension.

coyotefitzy

I have no problems in providing proof that I am seeking employment, however for every 10 jobs applied for I am only getting back maybe 1 confirmation letter.
I had to provide proof of my seeking employment recently, as I had few letters i actually went to my welfare officer, and on his computer opened my email account and showed him the sent emails from my account. This was proof enough for him that I was seeking employment. And out of 5 places i used to work in full time, only two are still operating, and both with skeletal staff and two part time jobs I had years ago are in businesses which are now gone.
I am aware that there is serious piss taking going on with regards to welfare fraud, but there needs to be jobs out there for people to apply for.
We need proper job creation, and it needs to be spread out across the country, the south east is crying out for job creation, and the majority on the dole will be happier when we are back to work, I know i will.

token101

Lisa2011 wrote: »

Australia put limits on who they let in and so do other countries so why cant Ireland do it. We are not being racist by doing this.

Immigrants have nothing to do with it. Asylum seekers have an acceptance rate of something like 2% (dont quote me on that, but it's low!!!), the rest are EU workers, Students (who are paying to be here and the government is trying to attract more of) or skilled workers needed that Ireland doesnt have (the long list of language immigrants coming to FB, Google, etc).

hypersquirrel

I have been unemployed for the last two years after getting my masters. I worked for 4 years to get the money together for my studies but when I went to go on the social welfare I found out that my boss had not been paying the correct PRSI and I was not entitled to benefits. I then applied for allowance but because I moved back in with my parents after quitting my job I did not pass the means test.

I quit the job I had during college because after multiple robberies I had a panic attack anytime the door opened.

I have a masters degree, top of my class, and 4 years experience in retail and apply for 15-20 jobs a week (if I can even find that many that will accept my skill set). If I'm lucky I get a rejection letter. If I'm really lucky I might even get an interview but in the end I will usually get ignored.

That's two years unemployed with no welfare and €100 a month from my brother which immediately vanishes into car tax and insurance. Not too mention how wonderful it feels to be leeching off family.

It's all well and good to have a job and complain about scroungers too lazy to get a job, or for people who have years of experience in a desirable field and can find plenty of work but try putting yourself in shoes of somebody who doesn't have that experience. Unemployment is at 14%. Of that 14% somebody is going to have that experience that you don't have. You are the bottom of the heap.

I could try to retrain as something useful but as I don't pass the means test I do not qualify for training schemes either.

However I can totally understand how people think that I and others would enjoy that situation.

Nyan Cat

Well no that's why there must be clear guidelines. There's no point in applying for a managerial position in IT if youre only experienced with retail or veterinary work. Actively seeking work shouldn't mean applying for anything. It should mean actively seeking work you're suited to.

As for rejection - no one likes it. It's disheartening. But you (people) have to just deal with that somehow.

2 stroke

Lisa2011 wrote: »

Are you one of these people who think the unemployed shoud take any type of job and are too lazy to work?

Do you really think people want to be on the dole?

My father is under two years from retirement and was made redundant. Do you think he is a dole sponger?

No Lisa. In my mind a dole sponger is someone who has no intention of working but who expects the state to support them and their families. Sounds like your father has been a contributer to the system. Even myself, if I went on welfare today and never worked again, it's unlikely I could claim back half of what I have paid in.
I have just been out to help deliver furniture to a house that was being paid for out of the public purse. The occupants of the house, who appeared to be in full health, didn't even move stuff out of our way, but were quick enough to inform us of their entitlements.

Tiocfaidh Armani

People on the dole during the so-called boom years should be made explain themselves. That's it. It's bad enough because of di*kheads in suits you're on the dole after work all your life and paying into th system without the same dicks harassing you when you're on the dole and don't want to be but are because of them and their pals!

PickledLime

hondasam wrote: »

Perhaps I am lucky I don't know.

Can I not have an opinion, is it only unemployed people who can post in this thread?
I know plenty of people who do not work, have lost jobs etc. I am not totally oblivious to the real world or the problems people have.

You certainly are lucky.

Of course you can have an opinion, but when it's one so out of touch with the situation at hand, don't be surprised when you get shot down for expressing it.

Back on topic about the dole spungers, part of the problem is you couldn't train them to tie their shoes. I recall being lambasted by a fellow i grew up with who's the dictionary definition of lazy - "ah look at Mr. Education, thinks he's great!". I was starting 4th year - of secondary school! What kind of job is suitable for a guy with that kind of mentality?

Lisa2011

Tiocfaidh Armani wrote: »

People on the dole during the so-called boom years should be made explain themselves. That's it. It's bad enough because of di*kheads in suits you're on the dole after work all your life and paying into th system without the same dicks harassing you when you're on the dole and don't want to be but are because of them and their pals!

I agree. I was on the dole for 3 months in 2003 before I did a course and you should have seen the 18 and 19 year olds in tracksuits signing on. Some of them may have had bad luck in getting a job but others were just too lazy. There the one's that must be targeted and of course those committing fraud.

Tiocfaidh Armani

Lisa2011 wrote: »

I agree. I was on the dole for 3 months in 2003 before I did a course and you should have seen the 18 and 19 year olds in tracksuits signing on. Some of them may have had bad luck in getting a job but others were just too lazy. There the one's that must be targeted and of course those committing fraud.

Big time, I have two sisters like that and they make me sick. Most on the dole are unlucky and we're in the **** and there's no work so what can you do? But there's some, like my sisters, who rip the piss and are lazy and contribute nothing to society.

Lisa2011

hypersquirrel wrote: »

I have been unemployed for the last two years after getting my masters. I worked for 4 years to get the money together for my studies but when I went to go on the social welfare I found out that my boss had not been paying the correct PRSI and I was not entitled to benefits. I then applied for allowance but because I moved back in with my parents after quitting my job I did not pass the means test.

I quit the job I had during college because after multiple robberies I had a panic attack anytime the door opened.

I have a masters degree, top of my class, and 4 years experience in retail and apply for 15-20 jobs a week (if I can even find that many that will accept my skill set). If I'm lucky I get a rejection letter. If I'm really lucky I might even get an interview but in the end I will usually get ignored.

That's two years unemployed with no welfare and €100 a month from my brother which immediately vanishes into car tax and insurance. Not too mention how wonderful it feels to be leeching off family.

It's all well and good to have a job and complain about scroungers too lazy to get a job, or for people who have years of experience in a desirable field and can find plenty of work but try putting yourself in shoes of somebody who doesn't have that experience. Unemployment is at 14%. Of that 14% somebody is going to have that experience that you don't have. You are the bottom of the heap.

I could try to retrain as something useful but as I don't pass the means test I do not qualify for training schemes either.

However I can totally understand how people think that I and others would enjoy that situation.

Are you 25 years old and over? If you are I dont understand how you could not be entitled to jobseekers allowance because even if your living with your parents once you reach 25 their income is not taken into account when deciding if your entitled to the payment and how much. I know that for a fact because I was in that situation.

Obviously if they know you have savings and can support yourself while looking for work then you dont get anything.

NeVeR

I've friends and family that have been on the Dole for over 2-4 years.. And they love it.. It's free money. Makes me sick sometimes. ( needless to say these people live at home and don't have kids/mortgages etc )

I was made redundant in April 2009. I was on the Dole for 5 weeks and I found a job.

Ive no degree or anything and it wasn't easy finding work but doing nothing all day nearly killed me. ( you could class my work as admin work )

I know it's not easy these days to find work. But there are jobs out there people just don't want the jobs that are there.

I think this time limit is a great idea. BUT I know from seeing it before that if all people had to do is show they are looking for work then all they will do is collect compliment slips from the company's ... yes I've seen people do that lol. That's there "proof" of looking. - Or just email in CV's and not turn up for interviews etc.

If it works and it fills up all the empty jobs out there then people on the Dole then have an excuse. ( I know alot of the jobs out there require highly skilled people but there a good few jobs with less experience required )

Nyan Cat

What if - when a person goes for an interview the company uses the company stamp and signs dates the booklet a person on the dole has?
Of course most applications don't result in an interview so in that case you provide rejection letters. If the applicant doesn't get one it's up to them to ring and ask for one.
But I don't know how practicable it would be as itd cost the companies some money

I know a lad on the uk. They enforce this rule about actively seeking work. Or they did where he lived. He took a temp job ever six months to keep the dole office off his back and then claimed dole in between. It was 10 years ago so I dunno if people can do that now but that was a true scrounger and the type we need to weed out

Logical Fallacy

Nyan Cat wrote: »

What if - when a person goes for an interview the company uses the company stamp and signs dates the booklet a person on the dole has?

The booklet is kept in the dole office at all times.

This is what i used to do when I was on the dole.

I'd print off all the confirmation of application pages from jobs.ie or monster.ie or whatever site i had used to apply for a job. I was also signed up with 4 different Agencies and had a letter from each one confirming that my details were with them. Everytime they would send me out on an interview i would ask them for a confirmation letter to show the dole office (which they were always happy to give me).

The one time i was asked by the Social to prove I was looking for work I arrived down with this massive pile of papers and i was looked at like i had ten heads. lol

Nothingbetter2d

NeVeR wrote: »

I know it's not easy these days to find work. But there are jobs out there people just don't want the jobs that are there.

you skipped most of this thread... so ill reiterate the flaw in your statement

most employers wont hire irish people for these low skilled jobs because they think irish people will leave when they find something better....in truth they are probably right. It is not that people aren't appying for those jobs its just these employers arent hiring irish... they can get cheaper foreign labour and know that foreigners will stay longer.

NeVeR wrote: »

I think this time limit is a great idea. BUT I know from seeing it before that if all people had to do is show they are looking for work then all they will do is collect compliment slips from the company's ... yes I've seen people do that lol. That's there "proof" of looking. - Or just email in CV's and not turn up for interviews etc.

If it works and it fills up all the empty jobs out there then people on the Dole then have an excuse. ( I know alot of the jobs out there require highly skilled people but there a good few jobs with less experience required )

about 90% of the jobs ive applied for never responded in any way shape or form... which is rude imo but proving you applied for jobs is not gonna be easy when employers cant be arsed to reply to your application. I even did an interview with ESB 2 months ago and have yet to even get a reject letter from them let alone a job offer.

Lisa2011

NeVeR wrote: »

I've friends and family that have been on the Dole for over 2-4 years.. And they love it.. It's free money. Makes me sick sometimes. ( needless to say these people live at home and don't have kids/mortgages etc )

I was made redundant in April 2009. I was on the Dole for 5 weeks and I found a job.

Ive no degree or anything and it wasn't easy finding work but doing nothing all day nearly killed me. ( you could class my work as admin work )

I know it's not easy these days to find work. But there are jobs out there people just don't want the jobs that are there.

I think this time limit is a great idea. BUT I know from seeing it before that if all people had to do is show they are looking for work then all they will do is collect compliment slips from the company's ... yes I've seen people do that lol. That's there "proof" of looking. - Or just email in CV's and not turn up for interviews etc.

If it works and it fills up all the empty jobs out there then people on the Dole then have an excuse. ( I know alot of the jobs out there require highly skilled people but there a good few jobs with less experience required )

I post too much here but since its my day off I have time do so.

needless to say these people live at home and don't have kids/mortgages etc

That is not the case.I have relatives who are on the dole more than 2 years and who applied for hundreds of jobs if not more in Ireland and outside the country and cant get work.

They have financial obligations as in a mortgage and are doing everything they can to get work. So you cant say that everyone on the dole that long has no mortgage or kids.

I have a relative who worked in construction and immediately after he became a father he had to leave the country and spend two years working and only came home during holidays and so on and when the contract ended he was due to go to Sweden to work but due to the ash cloud fiasco he could not travel and someone else got the job.

He desparately wants to work to support child and pay his mortgage. He cant even get onto the CE Scheme. He is over experienced but wouldn't you think that everyone should have the opportunity to be considered for the scheme.it would be better than having them sit at home doing nothing.

If the Troika are actually warning the government to cut costs why dont tell them to cut their salaries and stop their laundry tax write offs.Also travel expenses should be stopped. Politicans choose to run for election the publuc did not tell them to so why should taxpayers money be used to pay for their travel. They are earning enough to pay be able to pay for it themselves.