Time limit for dole?

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It is reported the Government is considering a time limit for social welfare recipients to find an alternative to being on the dole.

According to reports in the Irish Daily Mail, those on social welfare will have their payments cut if they do not meet the deadline.

The report says that every unemployed person in the country will be given what is termed a "prediction of exit" date under the plan to be unveiled next week.

It is understood that if they fail to make progress by this date, they will be called to an interview to explain why and could have their benefits cut if they fail to cooperate.

So Mrs Burton reckons that there are still people on the dole when they don't need to be.

I would say she is correct there. But surely the majority certainly want to work? Why spend money on interviewing wasters, the local offices surely have the knowledge already. Just make people show they are looking for work.

If they cut out the pile of shíte internship scheme, which is destroying anyones chances of getting a low skilled paid job, everyone would be better off.

You are looking in the wrong places Joan!

smash

elviscostello wrote: »

But surely the majority certainly want to work?

But even if 25% don't want to work and this gives them a kick in the ass, it'll be worth it.

Here's the figures over the last few years and even when businesses were thriving there were still a lot who didn't work http://www.cso.ie/en/statistics/labourmarket/principalstatistics/

hondasam

It is time social welfare fraud was stopped, anyone signing on for more than six months should have to explain themselves.
I would go as far as to say after six months on the dole payments should be reduced.

Mr Benevolent

Time limits are a good idea, no doubt about that.

AeoNGriM

elviscostello wrote: »

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So Mrs Burton reckons that there are still people on the dole when they don't need to be.

I would say she is correct there. But surely the majority certainly want to work? Why spend money on interviewing wasters, the local offices surely have the knowledge already. Just make people show they are looking for work.

If they cut out the pile of shíte internship scheme, which is destroying anyones chances of getting a low skilled paid job, everyone would be better off.

You are looking in the wrong places Joan!

They used to do this not long ago, not sure about now. Jobseekers had to fill in a GSW form, Genuinely Seeking Work listing names of places they had applied for work and who they spoke to. I remember being asked to get it signed too.

Kirby

AeoNGriM wrote: »

They used to do this not long ago, not sure about now. Jobseekers had to fill in a GSW form, Genuinely Seeking Work listing names of places they had applied for work and who they spoke to. I remember being asked to get it signed too.

They still do this. You have to fill out a form every six months or so and provide written proof of failed applications, interviews etc.

Honestly, the militant "Spungerrrrs on da dole" brigade that show their faces everytime a thread like this rolls around are obviously already in employment. It's very, very easy to have a go at people struggling when you have a job yourself. Put yourselvs in their shoes for a minute please everyone before the flaming begins.

Cú Giobach

In 2001 unemployment was at 3.7%, in a workforce of 2,000,000 this is 74,000.
According to the figures above, last summer there were 304,000 unemployed, this shows 229,000 people who would work if they could. Lets cut their benefits.
Just as a very rough guide this shows the actual reality, something governments aren't interested in.

monkeypants

I agree with the idea, but don't implement it in the middle of a recession/depression. I was job searching like mad and still managed to be on the dole for fourteen months. Back working and paying my way again since October '10. Delighted.

danniemcq

Ray Darcy just on about this earlier

Saying og there are no jobs so get jobs and most people will want to work.

Yes Ray most people will want to work but this is not aimed at them, this is aimed at the ones who sign on as soon as they can and don't sign off ever!

If you have been trying to get a job and can show this you have nothing to fear from this.

Nobody would have a problem with that

Nothingbetter2d

hondasam wrote: »

It is time social welfare fraud was stopped, anyone signing on for more than six months should have to explain themselves.
I would go as far as to say after six months on the dole payments should be reduced.

with that rotten attitude i hope you lose your job.

while i agree that the government must create more of an incentive for people to get back to work... they first need to prioritise getting actual jobs FOR people to apply for before penalising people that are out of work due to lack of jobs.

ejmaztec

Joan's only pissed off because she can't think of a new method to massage the unemployment figures. People just aren't emigrating quick enough.

Perhaps she get the dole offices to diversify into becoming travel agents, handing out travel brochures and complimentary suitcases.

Fran1985

once it mentioned Daily Mail, i gave up.

While i agree completely with the concept, that paper is a regular bull-sh/ter so don't need to worry too much about it.

However, if you've been on the dole for more than 10 years you should be cut straight away. You clearly sat around scratching during the good times and made no effort so you don't deserve them now. After 5 years, payments should be halved. I'd go with broad time scales like that because its a tough job market so you have to give people some credit.

Great idea, just wouldn't get my hopes up, given the original source

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hondasam wrote: »

It is time social welfare fraud was stopped, anyone signing on for more than six months should have to explain themselves.
I would go as far as to say after six months on the dole payments should be reduced.

But every person doesn't have the same circumstances. It's unfair to say that six months is enough time for anyone to get a job. It is extremely tough out there at the moment. I know one person who has been applying and applying and applying for upwards of a year and just recently got a (low skilled/paid) job. Are they lazy and performing welfare fraud? Nope.

Kirby wrote: »

Honestly, the militant "Spungerrrrs on da dole" brigade that show their faces everytime a thread like this rolls around are obviously already in employment.

I agree that the vast majority want a job and are trying to get a job, but there is most certainly a massive amount of people who are indeed "Spungerrrrs on da dole". I just don't think everyone should be tarred with the one brush.

chrismon

I agree that people who have no interest in work should have their rates cut.
But for people who are actively looking its a different story.
I apply for jobs all the time and never get called for interviews. I'm more than qualified for the jobs.
I'd love my Dole to be cut. Scraping by as it is.

Kirby

I know a guy who has a Masters degree. He's pretty decent at what he does. He's on the dole.

It's tough out there at the moment. It will get better but it's going to take a few years for the country to recover.

Cú Giobach

Here's a question, in a situation where there is such a lack of jobs, why penalise that small minority who don't want to work, surely the jobs that are going should be given to those who want and need them.
Why force (for example) the single druggie layabout who is quite happy being unemployed, into a job that could go to a person struggling to raise a family? The state will have to support one or the other.

hondasam

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

with that rotten attitude i hope you lose your job.

It's not a rotten attitude imo. I'm sick of peoples attitude's here, there are some jobs out there but people are not willing to work for the crap money.

I will not be losing my job but if I did I would get another one.

hondasam

elviscostello wrote: »

But every person doesn't have the same circumstances. It's unfair to say that six months is enough time for anyone to get a job. It is extremely tough out there at the moment. I know one person who has been applying and applying and applying for upwards of a year and just recently got a (low skilled/paid) job. Are they lazy and performing welfare fraud? Nope.

I am aware of how tough it is out there. I'm not saying everyone is committing fraud.
It's easy to go to the meeting and produce a few letters or emails and say Yes I tried to get a job but was not successful.
I feel six months is enough time to get a job paying the same as the dole.

wes31

in this town i can name at least five lads who are 30 plus years on the social and have no interest in work no matter how well paid the job would be. it a lifestyle for this minority on the dole.

Nothingbetter2d

hondasam wrote: »

It's not a rotten attitude imo. I'm sick of peoples attitude's here, there are some jobs out there but people are not willing to work for the crap money.

I will not be losing my job but if I did I would get another one.

so you telling me that the 433,000+ people out of work choose to be out of work? get real.... many people are trying hard to find work but cant get any... many of these people have families and morgages. They have the incentives to find work or risk losing their homes. There just isn't any jobs there unless you can speak foreign languages fluently.

i am getting welfare but im doing an internship programme having retrained from Architecture to I.T. (college fees at my own expense might i add) after the banks collapsed, because despite trying to find work and because i lacked experience working as It in an office environment i had no option but to go internship route because i was getting beat by IT guys with 10+ years experience applying for entry level helpdesk jobs cos there was feck all out there. there is many other people like me in similar circumstances.

It took my dole application 8 months to get processed... it took me 4 days after that to get an internship.... there simply isn't jobs there because every business is going the internship route now for free labour.

The Government need to refocuse on job creation and scrap the internship programmes in my opinion as it is preventing real jobs from being created.

giant_midget

Lads, I think most of you are missing the point of this story. This will be aimed at people on the dole long term. People that lost their job in 2007 onwards will & should be ok due to the circumstances that the country is in.

This seems to be for the losers that make it their life to be on the dole. All they need to do is look at their records, see who was on the dole from 2000 - present day.. then simply stop their payments No excuses in the world could account for not working for this length of time.

These are the "people" that this is aimed at. About time too, People who make a living out of being on the dole are a piece of sh1t in my eyes..

Fran1985

hondasam wrote: »

I am aware of how tough it is out there. I'm not saying everyone is committing fraud.
It's easy to go to the meeting and produce a few letters or emails and say Yes I tried to get a job but was not successful.
I feel six months is enough time to get a job paying the same as the dole.

Are you a politician? Because you seem to have your head in same cloud as most of Dail Eireann. Tell ya what, go looking for another job. Turn it down by all means, but start looking, like your home depended on it. And come back to us in 6 months and let us know how ya got on.

hondasam

Fran1985 wrote: »

Are you a politician? Because you seem to have your head in same cloud as most of Dail Eireann. Tell ya what, go looking for another job. Turn it down by all means, but start looking, like your home depended on it. And come back to us in 6 months and let us know how ya got on.

The point is I could get a job paying the same as the dole would pay me.
That is a fact. No I'm not a politician.

syklops

Kirby wrote: »

They still do this. You have to fill out a form every six months or so and provide written proof of failed applications, interviews etc.

Honestly, the militant "Spungerrrrs on da dole" brigade that show their faces everytime a thread like this rolls around are obviously already in employment. It's very, very easy to have a go at people struggling when you have a job yourself. Put yourselvs in their shoes for a minute please everyone before the flaming begins.

And everytime a thread like this appears the "Not all people on the dole want to be there, i'm getting offended at the suggestion" brigade arrive as well. The OP did not say "Every single person on the dole is a scrounger" so why are you getting offended???

It is a generally accepted fact that there are some people on the dole who do not need to be there. Basically anyone who was on it during the boom in my opinion.

It is also a generally accepted fact that it is hard to find a job at the minute. Its ok to be on the dole right now. No-one is saying otherwise. But if you have been on the dole for the last 8 years than something is amiss.

Toby Take a Bow

hondasam wrote: »

I will not be losing my job but if I did I would get another one.

hondasam wrote: »

I am aware of how tough it is out there. I'm not saying everyone is committing fraud.
It's easy to go to the meeting and produce a few letters or emails and say Yes I tried to get a job but was not successful.
I feel six months is enough time to get a job paying the same as the dole.

You don't seem to have an idea, but you're not speaking from personal experience, so that would make it a lot more difficult.

You seem to be of the opinion that you could always get a job which would be lower paid and 'lesser' than the one you're currently in. This isn't always the case. Employers can pick-and-choose now, so why hire someone who was working for years as a solicitor for the goods-inwards job? Why not hire someone with experience in goods-inwards? Or in my situation, where I couldn't even get a retail job, despite 10 years of retail work, because it wasn't the 'right' kind of retail work.

Back on topic: They should definitely look at people who are long-term unemployed. Their chances of finding employment are probably ruined at this stage, and some of the 'unemployed' in figures from before the economic crash would have had legitimate reasons to be on the dole, but something should definitely be organised around this. It will, however, as always be used as a huge stick to beat everybody on the dole.

robinph

hondasam wrote: »

I feel six months is enough time to get a job paying the same as the dole.

I'd have thought so as well...then I tried it.

Getting turned down for the lower paid jobs that you are perfectly prepared to do because they assume that you'll leave next week when something else comes along is not fun. Especially as there was nothing else coming along.

MungBean

hondasam wrote: »

The point is I could get a job paying the same as the dole would pay me.
That is a fact. No I'm not a politician.

What is your job by the way ? Because I'd love a job that allowed me to spend all day every day talking on boards.

I'm not sure you are living in the real world or have much of a clue about what goes on in it.

Fran1985

hondasam wrote: »

The point is I could get a job paying the same as the dole would pay me.
That is a fact. No I'm not a politician.

How is it a fact? Go prove your point! Because, despite what ya mite think, they don't just give those low paid jobs to someone because he has a masters, or a PHD or 5 degrees. When i lost my job i applied to McD's, Spar (i was a manager in spar for 2 years when i was in college) and even The Teddy Bear factory!!!! But got rejected by them all.

They give them to students, who'll be there for a couple of years to get them through college, not someone who's goin to keep applying for jobs elsewhere because training someone in to one of those jobs costs money too.

hondasam

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

You don't seem to have an idea, but you're not speaking from personal experience, so that would make it a lot more difficult.

My point is I could get a job paying the same as the dole would pay me.

robinph wrote: »

I'd have thought so as well...then I tried it.

Fair enough.

MungBean wrote: »

What is your job by the way ? Because I'd love a job that allowed me to spend all day every day talking on boards.

I'm not sure you are living in the real world or have much of a clue about what goes on in it.

My job is irrelevant as is how much I post on boards.

syklops

Terrific. We are having a 'discussion' with two brigades, but both group are speaking at opposite ends of the spectrum.

hondasam wrote:

I would go as far as to say after six months on the dole payments should be reduced.

Fran1985 wrote:

After 5 years, payments should be halved. I'd go with broad time scales like that because its a tough job market so you have to give people some credit.

As another poster pointed out. in 2001 the numbers on the dole were 74,000 or 3.7% of the workforce. Those are the people who the Minister is aiming this at, not people who have been on it six months.

If you identified the 70,000 or so who have been on the dole since 2001 and cut their dole by 20 euro a week it would save around 77 Million euro per year.

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hondasam wrote: »

I am aware of how tough it is out there. I'm not saying everyone is committing fraud.
It's easy to go to the meeting and produce a few letters or emails and say Yes I tried to get a job but was not successful.
I feel six months is enough time to get a job paying the same as the dole.

But you can't say a statement like that and cover the hundreds of thousands of unemployed people. Everyone has different circumstances.

I am lucky enough to only experience the dole office temporarily a couple of years ago when I was put on a three day week for a while. I didn't enjoy it one bit though.

I really hope if they do think about doing something like this, that they focus on the known scroungers, and don't be dragging the decent people in for these interviews. Drag in the people who aren't producing proof of job seeking, and leave the decent people with a bit of belief in the system.

syklops

robinph wrote: »

I'd have thought so as well...then I tried it.

Getting turned down for the lower paid jobs that you are perfectly prepared to do because they assume that you'll leave next week when something else comes along is not fun. Especially as there was nothing else coming along.

I remember ringing up a previous boss of mine because I saw his company were looking for analysts and I said "Would you consider me?" And he said some thing along the lines of "Don't be silly. You would be bored and leave within three months" and i was saying "no I wont. I'll make a commitment to stay" and he kept saying that i would leave when i got bored, or I would be head hunted. This was early 2009 at the start of the crisis. So I ended up leaving the country because there was nothing else.

I understand his point of view, and if someone had come along offering me great money I probably would have left to go do it. The problem is, nothing else did come along, meanwhile I have bills and rent to pay.

syklops

elviscostello wrote: »

I really hope if they do think about doing something like this, that they focus on the known scroungers, and don't be dragging the decent people in for these interviews. Drag in the people who aren't producing proof of job seeking, and leave the decent people with a bit of belief in the system.

Or drag in the people who were on the dole when Immigrants with no english were getting jobs in Spar.

Nothingbetter2d

syklops wrote: »

I remember ringing up a previous boss of mine because I saw his company were looking for analysts and I said "Would you consider me?" And he said some thing along the lines of "Don't be silly. You would be bored and leave within three months" and i was saying "no I wont. I'll make a commitment to stay" and he kept saying that i would leave when i got bored, or I would be head hunted. This was early 2009 at the start of the crisis. So I ended up leaving the country because there was nothing else.

I understand his point of view, and if someone had come along offering me great money I probably would have left to go do it. The problem is, nothing else did come along, meanwhile I have bills and rent to pay.

this is exactly why most irish people dont work in low skilled jobs, its not for lack of applying but its actually the employers choosing foreigners over irish because they know the foreigners are more likely to stay where as the irish with work there until something better comes. Skylops has hit the nail on the head there.

Despite having previous experience working in chippers and pubs i still get turned down for interviews when i apply because they think ill leave as soon as i get a better offer.

ilovesleep

So if an unemployed person fails in his/her duty to find work they get their benefit/assistance cut.

But if an ex prime minister fails at running the country leaving an economic failure - he gets rewarded. He's allowed to keep his pension!!

How about lazy politicians in office Joan? What is your plan for those?

AnonoBoy

It seems to me like this will be no different from the past. When I was on the dole years ago you had to submit evidence that you were looking for a job every so often. I only had to do it once as I wasn't on it for all that long.

"Called to an interview" ≠ "Kicked off the dole"

Sykk

Kirby wrote: »

I know a guy who has a Masters degree. He's pretty decent at what he does.

It's tough out there at the moment. It will get better but it's going to take a few years for the country to recover.

Doesn't mean anything.. Seriously.

Nothingbetter2d

ilovesleep wrote: »

So of an unemployed person fails in his/her duty to find work they get their benefit/assistance cute.

But if an ex prime minister fails at running the country leaving an economic failure - he gets rewarded. He's allowed to keep in pension!!

How about lazy politicians in office Joan? What is your plan for those?

how about getting rid of most of those lazy local politicians... 900+ local councillors and most of them dont actually do much to justify their expenses.

ilovesleep

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

this is exactly why most irish people dont work in low skilled jobs, its not for lack of applying but its actually the employers choosing foreigners over irish because they know the foreigners are more likely to stay where as the irish with work there until something better comes. Skylops has hit the nail on the head there.

Despite having previous experience working in chippers and pubs i still get turned down for interviews when i apply because they think ill leave as soon as i get a better offer.

This and don't anybody else fool themselves.

I studied a hospitality course years ago and was unable to get work even in a cafe yet everywhere I walked into there were foreigners working.

the_syco

Joan Burton has got to be one of the dimmest TDs in power!

Nothingbetter2d

we should force kenny and gilmore to vote no confidence in joan burton lol

thebostoncrab

hondasam wrote: »

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

with that rotten attitude i hope you lose your job.

It's not a rotten attitude imo. I'm sick of peoples attitude's here, there are some jobs out there but people are not willing to work for the crap money.

I will not be losing my job but if I did I would get another one.

I'm going try be as civil as possible here, but I'll be blunt, I take your post very personally and it makes my blood boil.

For 18 months I was on the dole. I searched for work daily, anything at all I was not picky. I applied for jobs that paid less than dole, I just wanted to work simply because it is easier to find a job when you are working. But it was incredibly rare to even get a rejection letter from a company, never mind getting an interview.

So to just say that after 6 months dole should be halfed, no questions asked, is incredibly stupid and short sighted. If that had of happened to me I would have had no way to pay rents, bills and other services. And I don't live in an area with high rent costs or shop in M&S.

In February I'll be on the dole again unless one of the places I had an interview with offer me a job. Currently I travel 2 and a half hours to work, simply because I dont want to go on the dole again. Unfortunatly it's a temp job.

So before you make such shortsighted comments think about the actually situation that people are in. It's ****ing horrible and depressing out there, and the last thing needed is something to make it worse.

gcgirl

I know a lot of 50 + in age people and have been working their asses off and lost their jobs due to the recession and cannot get any work because of their age, plus there are NO JOBS out there, the government are doing fook all to create jobs.

Joe10000

I'm not sure about time limits but I do think unemployment benefit should be reduced every six months until after three years it hits zero.

gcgirl

thebostoncrab wrote: »

hondasam wrote: »

Nothingbetter2d wrote: »

with that rotten attitude i hope you lose your job.

It's not a rotten attitude imo. I'm sick of peoples attitude's here, there are some jobs out there but people are not willing to work for the crap money.

I will not be losing my job but if I did I would get another one.

I'm going try be as civil as possible here, but I'll be blunt, I take your post very personally and it makes my blood boil.

For 18 months I was on the dole. I searched for work daily, anything at all I was not picky. I applied for jobs that paid less than dole, I just wanted to work simply because it is easier to find a job when you are working. But it was incredibly rare to even get a rejection letter from a company, never mind getting an interview.

So to just say that after 6 months dole should be halfed, no questions asked, is incredibly stupid and short sighted. If that had of happened to me I would have had no way to pay rents, bills and other services. And I don't live in an area with high rent costs or shop in M&S.

In February I'll be on the dole again unless one of the places I had an interview with offer me a job. Currently I travel 2 and a half hours to work, simply because I dont want to go on the dole again. Unfortunatly it's a temp job.

So before you make such shortsighted comments think about the actually situation that people are in. It's ****ing horrible and depressing out there, and the last thing needed is something to make it worse.

+ a million

fryup

correct me if i'm wrong, but isn't it in Canada you get the social welfare for something like 6 months and thats it and you're left to your own devices after that

2 stroke

Nice one starting this thread when the majority of dole spongers are still in bed.
How many of you are suposed to be working at the moment?

dipper.meath16

The Dole is as depressing as f**k, and if you think its easy to get work, think again!! im lucky, though, i was let go 3 years ago, was on the dole for a few months, and applied for college(i'm 23) So i went to further myself! 'Im on back to education alowence, however as part of college i'm now on 9 months work placement, driving 200k a day to try get a job at the end of it, so please do not tar every one with the one brush!
Yes there is scroungers and frauds, i bet everyone here knows or knows of them, and wont dob them in!
Living out in the country, were your a few miles from local shop, no car, no savings, with 188 yoyo in your pocket, there can seem to be no light at the end of the tunnel for people, trust me, so dont look down your nose at unemployed people who are trying to survive!
The Government departments need to take a good long look at them selves, some ex politicians are teachers etc, so are drawing 2 state pensions.. thats wrong, and them pensions are quite substantail, so loads of savings could be made there..
1.2 billion going to anglo bond holders today, who gambled there money, lost yet seem to be making a profit, and prob dont need it! That **** adds to depression! Look at priory hall for example, 1.2 billion could prob put a lot of families back in their homes!!
The government need to snap back to reality, they honestly think their ****e does not stink!

_feedback_

gcgirl wrote: »

there are NO JOBS out there, the government are doing fook all to create jobs.

Ah but sure didn't Joan give us the internship scheme? That's a great addition.

This is how it works. It seems that ANY person who wants to call themselves an employer can apply for an intern. An internship is like supervised learning, and basically gives people an opportunity to work in a position they may not get in to otherwise, and learn a bit about it.

It's a fabulous scheme. Some amazing internships have been offered. Topaz were so kind to give the opportunity to join their forecourt attendant internship. The Old Ground Hotel in Ennis were amazing, and welcomed a kitchen porter intern. There were even opportunities to take on a Landscaper internship.

Translate all the above sarcastic bullshít and you get: They have diminished any chance of low skilled work coming available by allowing "employers" to take advantage of the unemployed and get free labour for themselves. Sickening really.

ilovesleep

gcgirl wrote: »

I know a lot of 50 + in age people and have been working their asses off and lost their jobs due to the recession and cannot get any work because of their age, plus there are NO JOBS out there, the government are doing fook all to create jobs.

And for anyone young it will be very hard to move else where around ireland else work on 100 euro social welfare a week. They are pretty much stuck at home in their own locality for work.

jc84

elviscostello wrote: »

Ah but sure didn't Joan give us the internship scheme? That's a great addition.

This is how it works. It seems that ANY person who wants to call themselves an employer can apply for an intern. An internship is like supervised learning, and basically gives people an opportunity to work in a position they may not get in to otherwise, and learn a bit about it.

It's a fabulous scheme. Some amazing internships have been offered. Topaz were so kind to give the opportunity to join their forecourt attendant internship. The Old Ground Hotel in Ennis were amazing, and welcomed a kitchen porter intern. There were even opportunities to take on a Landscaper internship.

Translate all the above sarcastic bullshít and you get: They have diminished any chance of low skilled work coming available by allowing "employers" to take advantage of the unemployed and get free labour for themselves. Sickening really.

any scheme introduced will be abused, i personally think the internship scheme is fantastic, where i work, we've taken on several interns in accounting positions, they badly need the experience as they can't get qualified without a minimum of 2-3 years experience, so at least by doing this they are getting 9 months, we've also taken people on in other positions and kept them on afterwards full-time, i think the scheme is great