Pacquiao v Mayweather

walshb

I would argue that Cotto was as good as ever until he got nailed hard. I don't think a 146 or 147 Cotto does much better. He was dominated. I personally think that folks using weight as some factor in that fight is weak.

Margarito was never beating Manny. Never. Margarito is a punchbag. Mosley showed this. A stale and past it Mosley.

ooPabsoo

I'd put my money on Mayweather fighting Guerrero in May, followed by Alvarez in September( After an Alvarez/Cotto fight ).

I'd love to see Trout face Alvarez before then - Trout would be a seriously hard fight for Canelo, which is why I can't really see it happening + there'd be more money in a Cotto/Alvarez fight. It's a shame really, Trout/Alvarez has the makings to be a cracking fight - and would really show us what Alvarez is made of, seeing as he hasn't really been tested as of yet.

walshb

If anthing Floyd should want to meet Alvarez earlier rather than later. Floyd is slipping. Still fine, but I wouldn't expect him to be as sharp in late 2013 as he was in mid 2012.

Floyd will not meet Alvarez IF Alvarez keeps improving. Floyd probably wouldn't face Alvarez today. I am not criticising Floyd for this. I wouldn't blame him for avoiding that fight. I do not see Floyd meeting Alvarez at all.

supackofidiots

Mayweather v Alvarez is now the biggest fight to be made in boxing. I expect it to be in May. Floyd knows he beats Guerrero with his eyes closed, I just can't see him getting out of bed for that fight.

It's been a great year for the sport of boxing, the sport we all know and love.

TheNap

It makes more sense for Mayweather to fight Canelo in May.... It would be huge and he is better off fighting him earlier .... Have Guerrero fight before him on the undercard giving him more exposure for their fight in September ..

Ghost.

If anthing Floyd should want to meet Alvarez earlier rather than later. Floyd is slipping. Still fine, but I wouldn't expect him to be as sharp in late 2013 as he was in mid 2012.

I agree but I think its more a case of Alvarez improving rather than Floyd slipping all that much in a year. I think he will still be much the same.

Floyd knows he beats Guerrero with his eyes closed, I just can't see him getting out of bed for that fight.

With the way he manages his money Id say having to pay the bills will get him out of bed for it.

walshb

Ghost. wrote: »

I agree but I think its more a case of Alvarez improving rather than Floyd slipping all that much in a year. I think he will still be much the same.



With the way he manages his money Id say having to pay the bills will get him out of bed for it.

Exactly. What got him out of bed (after 21 months out) to meet JMM? He surely knew that he'd beat JMM with his eyes closed. I knew he would, and the fight bore that out! Guerrero is no different to JMM.

walshb

BTW, regarding Floyd and his money management, what leads folks to believe that he's silly with his management, or reckless? Sure, I know he gamble a lot, but he has it to gamble. He must be worth tens of millions.

Maybe he owes taxes, but many people who are wealthy and managing fine owe taxes. I personally think that he comes across as shrewd and clever with his money. He's in charge of his life in many ways.

I would not doubt that he's fighting for the money, but I would doubt that he's fighting because he needs the money. I know he seems very materialistic, but I doubt very much that he's in any financial trouble.

ooPabsoo

Who do you lads see Trout facing next? I thought he was very impressive against cotto, and deserves a big fight - but I just can't see him getting it any time soon.

Frank Bullitt

walshb wrote: »

BTW, regarding Floyd and his money management, what leads folks to believe that he's silly with his management, or reckless? Sure, I know he gamble a lot, but he has it to gamble. He must be worth tens of millions.

Maybe he owes taxes, but many people who are wealthy and managing fine owe taxes. I personally think that he comes across as shrewd and clever with his money. He's in charge of his life in many ways.

I would not doubt that he's fighting for the money, but I would doubt that he's fighting because he needs the money. I know he seems very materialistic, but I doubt very much that he's in any financial trouble.

Apparently he was done out of some scam for an investment, lost a lot of money on that one. He also bigs up how much he earns, he will claim that he got a much higher sum for a fight than he actually did, he said he got $20 million for the WWF thing he did, but he actually got $3.5 million.

His spending as well can't be comprehended, he is insane with his money, and his only source of income is boxing, he has no real big endorsements because no company will want to be associated with a woman beating racist, who can blame them?

Right now he might not be in any real issue, but he spends like Jay-Z or 50 Cent, but they have companies and business with a bankroll coming in, and it will always do that for them even while they sleep at night. For Mayweather, he has to box to get the cash in, and when he does it all goes, a few years ago he threw hundreds of thousands at fans for fun, and puts huge sums down for football games and basketball, and like any gambler he will lose more than he wins.

megadodge

Paul,

Your ongoing tirades against Pacquiao are becoming unbearable. You give the man zero credit for anything and come out with this utter sh!te about 'contractually obligated' DLH preventing him from rehydrating. The only problem is - you have not offered one tiny, miserable iota of PROOF!!!

Are you honestly trying to say if that was the case, in a sport of huge egos, absolutely NOBODY on the planet would have come out by now and mentioned it? Because if you are, you really don't know human nature.

Proof please. Or just stop making allegations.

Just to make a quick comparison of the Pac/DLH fight. It would be akin to Gamboa (an exciting, hard-hitting feather, now fighting at super-feather) having one fight at lightweight against an average champ, then stepping up to fight Canelo (a light-middle) who had to come down to welter.

BEFORE any such fight do you think Canelo would be absolutely lambasted left, right and centre for taking on such a fight? Of course he would! And rightfully so!
AFTER any such fight, if he lost, do you think people would give him a free ride and twist it round so that Gamboa was suddenly the bad guy for making a MUCH BIGGER man reduce weight? I'm bloody certain it wouldn't happen. But hey, that's what you're doing with Pacman.

megadodge

Gintonious wrote: »

Apparently he was done out of some scam for an investment, lost a lot of money on that one. He also bigs up how much he earns, he will claim that he got a much higher sum for a fight than he actually did, he said he got $20 million for the WWF thing he did, but he actually got $3.5 million.

His spending as well can't be comprehended, he is insane with his money, and his only source of income is boxing, he has no real big endorsements because no company will want to be associated with a woman beating racist, who can blame them?

Right now he might not be in any real issue, but he spends like Jay-Z or 50 Cent, but they have companies and business with a bankroll coming in, and it will always do that for them even while they sleep at night. For Mayweather, he has to box to get the cash in, and when he does it all goes, a few years ago he threw hundreds of thousands at fans for fun, and puts huge sums down for football games and basketball, and like any gambler he will lose more than he wins.

I'm not entirely convinced Mayweather goes through as much cash as he makes out. I think it's just part of the 'Money' persona and exaggerated intentionally to 'enhance' his image.

TheNap

Think it was the Hatton / Mayweather 24/7 when Mayweather is showing the cameras around his mansion , he turned to the camera and said 'the difference between me and everyone else ? All my s**t is paid for ' ... I reckon he is pretty clever with his money myself

willmunny1990

I think Mayweather beats Canelo and Guerrero easily.

Canelo is still largely unproven, he will probably go on and dominate but at the moment he's fought no one of real quality. I think meeting Floyd at the moment is all wrong for him, he needs more experience and better quality opponents under his belt before going near Floyd IMO.

cowzerp

megadodge wrote: »

Paul,

Your ongoing tirades against Pacquiao are becoming unbearable. You give the man zero credit for anything and come out with this utter sh!te about 'contractually obligated' DLH preventing him from rehydrating. The only problem is - you have not offered one tiny, miserable iota of PROOF!!!

Are you honestly trying to say if that was the case, in a sport of huge egos, absolutely NOBODY on the planet would have come out by now and mentioned it? Because if you are, you really don't know human nature.

Proof please. Or just stop making allegations.

1st off I never once stated this as Fact, I stated this as Opinion and 1 which i strongly believe, You do realise there is clauses that can be put into contracts where parties can't discuss such clause etc

Ron Frazier wrote an article saying there was a clause that De la Hoya could not rehydrate over 147, I clearly remember during the build up to the fight this issue was been discussed heavily anyway

As i have said numerous times on here, De la hoya would have to be a total idiot to only gain 1lb by choice when so clearly weight drained, He is a very smart man in my opinion so the only other logical reason anyone has given on this thread was Bren who said maybe everything was running out of him and he couldn't rehydrate, but again this would have been made very public and rightly so as reason why Oscar could not compete at any level

So we are left with Oscar been an idiot, been sick which we would have heard about or him not gaining weight for other reasons!

megadodge wrote: »

Just to make a quick comparison of the Pac/DLH fight. It would be akin to Gamboa (an exciting, hard-hitting feather, now fighting at super-feather) having one fight at lightweight against an average champ, then stepping up to fight Canelo (a light-middle) who had to come down to welter.

Canelo is 21-22 and the best out there at Light Middleweight so the comparison ends there, De la Hoya was an already shot fighter who was brought down to a weight that he had Zero hope of competing and it was very cynical of Roach/Manny

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

Canelo is 21-22 and the best out there at Light Middleweight so the comparison ends there, De la Hoya was an already shot fighter who was brought down to a weight that he had Zero hope of competing and it was very cynical of Roach/Manny

I must agree. Oscar in 2008 was a shot fighter, although still expected to be too big for Manny. Canelo today is hitting his peak. The comparison is not really all that safe.

Fall_Guy

For me De La Hoya was either contractually obliged not to rehydrate after the weigh-in or their was medically something wrong with him. In the weigh-in photos he looks so gaunt, he has all the look of someone who has made a hard cut. Even just by going back to eating and drinking normally you would expect him to put back on a good few lbs. Either way something seemed to be up.

I wouldn't really use it as a stick to beat Manny with though, and I do feel what he has done is amazing. His victory over Cotto was tremendous and I don't think the 145lb limit made a huge difference to how that fight played out. If i remember correctly Cotto was at least holding his own in the early rounds, if not getting the better of it through solid boxing and excellent use of his jab. Only after feeling Pacquiao's power did he go on the back-foot and invite a more sustained attack from Pacquiao onto himself.

I really really REALLY wanted to see Pacquiao Mayweather a couple of years ago but as time goes by I think the fight favours Mayweather more and more. His pure boxing skills will age better than Manny's freakish physical attributes. Now I think the fight I'd most like to see made is Mayweather versus Canelo.

walshb

My call: Medically something prevented him from gaining and holding the extra weight. I don't believe that he was obliged by a clause to be allowed only a lb or 2. Somebody would have revealed that at some point in time.

Or, maybe Oscar was 150 lbs PLUS on the night. Was the 148 lbs accurately verified, or was it speculated and spoken about? Pro boxing is so full of cons and tricks that it is difficult to take anything as gospel.

cowzerp

walshb wrote: »

My call: Medically something prevented him from gaining and holding the extra weight. I don't believe that he was obliged by a clause to be allowed only a lb or 2. Somebody would have revealed that at some point in time.

So they'd talk about a contractual agreement but not about a medical reason for him been dehydrated and malnourished in the ring?!

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

So they'd talk about a contractual agreement but not about a medical reason for him been dehydrated and malnourished in the ring?!

Just realised that. Yes, surely either scenario would have resulted in it being made public.

I have no clue. I guess the best option then is to think that the reporting that he was 148 lbs on fight night was not accuarate. I did mention this in my post above.

Frank Bullitt

TheNap wrote: »

Think it was the Hatton / Mayweather 24/7 when Mayweather is showing the cameras around his mansion , he turned to the camera and said 'the difference between me and everyone else ? All my s**t is paid for ' ... I reckon he is pretty clever with his money myself

Time will tell on that one. I have no doubt that he owns all of his "****", but its the amount that he owns that could be the issue, moeny is the main thing in hie life, and he throws it about like it's no ones business, hence the name "money Mayweather" and not "Pretty boy Floyd", although you box to make money more than anything.

Halloween Jack

Gintonious wrote: »

Time will tell on that one. I have no doubt that he owns all of his "****", but its the amount that he owns that could be the issue, moeny is the main thing in hie life, and he throws it about like it's no ones business, hence the name "money Mayweather" and not "Pretty boy Floyd", although you box to make money more than anything.

If the coupons he posts on twitter are anything to go by, he's liberal with his dough anyway. He's cooled on posting them lately but a while back he was posting dockets worth half a mill regular enough. Fairly ****ing vulgar really....

megadodge

cowzerp wrote: »

Canelo is 21-22 and the best out there at Light Middleweight so the comparison ends there, De la Hoya was an already shot fighter who was brought down to a weight that he had Zero hope of competing and it was very cynical of Roach/Manny

A "shot fighter" who only two fights before that went to a split decision with Mayweather??

Oscar was a heavy favourite going into the Pac fight.

My comparison was a weight one (so insert any light-middle champ) and it still stands.


I've replied to your PM also.

cowzerp

megadodge wrote: »

A "shot fighter" who only two fights before that went to a split decision with Mayweather??

Oscar was a heavy favourite going into the Pac fight.

My comparison was a weight one (so insert any light-middle champ) and it still stands..

Against Floyd Oscar was huge! At least 20-30 lbs heavier fight night than against Manny, floyd did not even leave 2nd gear and won the fight v the much stronger man-the Oscar manny fought was this 1 but less muscle and dehydrated to bits. The story of Mannys heavier fights. And he's no problem forcing Marquez up weight either when it suited him again

The catch weight champion of the world manny PAC

megadodge

cowzerp wrote: »

Against Floyd Oscar was huge! At least 20-30 lbs heavier fight night than against Manny, floyd did not even leave 2nd gear and won the fight v the much stronger man-the Oscar manny fought was this 1 but less muscle and dehydrated to bits. The story of Mannys heavier fights. And he's no problem forcing Marquez up weight either when it suited him again

The catch weight champion of the world manny PAC

Oscar was definitely dehydrated in the Pac fight. You don't have to be a boxing expert to see that. But that has nothing to do with Manny. Oscar and his team messed up somewhere.

Using your logic a super-feather (having moved up from flyweight) who has just had one fight at lightweight should have fought at 11 stone? Even in boxing that would have been regarded as cynical in the extreme - by Oscar!! The fight would never have been made. It's exactly like Gamboa fighting one of the top light-middles. Would you regard that as a fair matchup?

cowzerp

Once again, Oscar was not near a top fighter in any division at this time, he was in reality never that great and lost to most the best he fought. I was a big fan of his but lets get real here.

Floyd fought him as healthy washed up fighter, Manny fought him as an 1.5 year older washed up ill fighter at 9 lbs lower weight on the scales and even more gap in the ring, this is just simple fact and nothing else.

el flaco

Mayweather v Guerrero looking the very likely matchup for May 4th.

http://www.boxingscene.com/mayweather-vs-guerrero-close-done-4th--60713

cowzerp

el flaco wrote: »

Mayweather v Guerrero looking the very likely matchup for May 4th.

http://www.boxingscene.com/mayweather-vs-guerrero-close-done-4th--60713

If this happens then Canelo after that i'd be very happy.

megadodge

cowzerp wrote: »

Once again, Oscar was not near a top fighter in any division at this time, he was in reality never that great and lost to most the best he fought. I was a big fan of his but lets get real here.

Floyd fought him as healthy washed up fighter, Manny fought him as an 1.5 year older washed up ill fighter at 9 lbs lower weight on the scales and even more gap in the ring, this is just simple fact and nothing else.

Once again you ignored my question.

Would you regard Gamboa fighting any of the top light-middles as a fair fight?

cowzerp

megadodge wrote: »

Once again you ignored my question.

Would you regard Gamboa fighting any of the top light-middles as a fair fight?

It's irrelevant, Gamboa is not Manny and De la Hoya was not a top middleweight. I've never once said manny was not a great talent, I knew this years before he was world famous, what I question is him picking opponents and weight to suit him and hurt opponents. This is what he does and you know it.


Plus he didn't fight De la Hoya at light middle so moot point.