Pacquiao v Mayweather

Frank Bullitt

Manny is also very open to the right hand, as Marquez showed at the weekend, Mayweather would expose that to the full.

Floyd also has a brilliant defense, so even if Manny can get inside, and that is a big IF, he can wrap up and stay protected. Also getting in close with a bigger fighter is a big gamble, especially with a fighter of Mayweathers calibre.

walshb

All this talk of speed and power in comparing Manny and Floyd is of less importance IMO. I always felt that Floyd's size would be a factor. His deceptive strength on the inside. Manny will end up close to Floyd at stages, and Manny will be manhandled and roughed up and hit. Reach and height in Floyd's favor. Manny needs to get close, and when he does he will eat leather.

el flaco

Canelo claiming that a deal to fight Mayweather in May is close. Assuming nobody has hacked his facebook page that is.

http://www.badlefthook.com/2012/12/13/3764842/floyd-mayweather-vs-canelo-alvarez-close-may-4-next-fight-facebook-quote-boxing-news

Halloween Jack

Furthermore, floyd's chin is excellent, he's taken decent shots from bigger men than manny.

I think Mandy's big advantage is that he's a southpaw, no orthodox fighter likes a southpaw even one as complete as floyd.

However I feel the best version of manny would have ultimately come up short against floyd and I think if the fight were to happen tomorrow I fear he would be outboxed comfortably.

Ghost.

Mayweather doesn't struggle when pressured onto the ropes, he has one of the best close up defence I've ever seen. His strength on the inside has been a not so secret weapon for years, and was largely the reason hatton hadn't a hope. Ricky's deeply flawed gameplan was to get in close and rough up mayweather, however floyd was the stronger man on the inside and hatton had no plan b.

Hatton had no plan B. But he only had one choice of tactics and that was to pressure floyd on the ropes and get in close. It just happens to be the most effective tactic against him and it allowed Hatton a vastly inferior fighter to last 10 rounds with Mayweather. Had he stood off from him he would have been annilatated in 3 or 4 rounds, the way Manny did. And Im sure if Floyd could have taken him out earlier he would have. The fact is that style of fighting works best against Mayweather.
Now couple that with someone stronger, faster and who can bang (Sound like Manny) employing the same tactics and I see it being a long day at the office for Floyd. It would be a tough fight for him. But I agree Manny would need to be 100% and bring his A game.

As for the De La Hoya fight, never mind the Floyd fans clips of Floyd landing shots, watch the full fight. It was close. Much closer than anybody expected.

Halloween Jack

Ghost. wrote: »

Hatton had no plan B. But he only had one choice of tactics and that was to pressure floyd on the ropes and get in close. It just happens to be the most effective tactic against him and it allowed Hatton a vastly inferior fighter to last 10 rounds with Mayweather. Had he stood off from him he would have been annilatated in 3 or 4 rounds, the way Manny did. And Im sure if Floyd could have taken him out earlier he would have. The fact is that style of fighting works best against Mayweather.
Now couple that with someone stronger, faster and who can bang (Sound like Manny) employing the same tactics and I see it being a long day at the office for Floyd. It would be a tough fight for him. But I agree Manny would need to be 100% and bring his A game.

As for the De La Hoya fight, never mind the Floyd fans clips of Floyd landing shots, watch the full fight. It was close. Much closer than anybody expected.

I watched the delahoya fight on the night thanks......

i still have the same opinion of it then that i have now, oscar showed aggression but couldnt find a way through mayweather's defense, he closed the distance down and banged away but too often couldnt make it count, meanwhile floyd was scoring regularly.

You can actually see oscar getting frustrated throughout the fight, working hard hard to get in, only to be given the slip time and again.

Now delahoya probably went into the ring north of 160lbs that night, he couldnt successfully rough up floyd on the inside, quite why you think 146lbs pacman would is anyone's guess.

As for Hatton he tried the pressure approach, but was too small and his lateral movement etc, wasnt up to scratch, after the early rounds floyd could have him out of there at will, but another reason floyd hasnt lost is that he doesnt get careless and go in wide open looking for ko's, like pacman at the weekend. He often starts slowly in fights, figures his opponent out and coasts to wide decisions.

Frank Bullitt

Ghost. wrote: »

Hatton had no plan B. But he only had one choice of tactics and that was to pressure floyd on the ropes and get in close. It just happens to be the most effective tactic against him and it allowed Hatton a vastly inferior fighter to last 10 rounds with Mayweather. Had he stood off from him he would have been annilatated in 3 or 4 rounds, the way Manny did. And Im sure if Floyd could have taken him out earlier he would have. The fact is that style of fighting works best against Mayweather.
Now couple that with someone stronger, faster and who can bang (Sound like Manny) employing the same tactics and I see it being a long day at the office for Floyd. It would be a tough fight for him. But I agree Manny would need to be 100% and bring his A game.

As for the De La Hoya fight, never mind the Floyd fans clips of Floyd landing shots, watch the full fight. It was close. Much closer than anybody expected.

Manny stronger and faster than Mayweather? Have you watched any of his fights? Mayweather is far stronger than Manny, and bigger, and just as fast. That style might work against Mayweather but to back up that style you have to be able to roll with him in the size and strength department.

walshb

Gintonious wrote: »

Manny stronger and faster than Mayweather? Have you watched any of his fights? Mayweather is far stronger than Manny, and bigger, and just as fast. That style might work against Mayweather but to back up that style you have to be able to roll with him in the size and strength department.

I think the poster is saying that Manny is faster and stronger than what Hatton was in 2007? Anyway, Manny is not IMO as strong as Mayweather.

Either way I see this fight being fought mainly on the outside. Floyd having the speed and reach to be the winner. If the fight gets close I can't see Manny having much success. He was never an inside fighter. I could also envisage Floyd walking Manny down as the rounds go by.

Frank Bullitt

walshb wrote: »

I think the poster is saying that Manny is faster and stronher than what Hatton was in 2007? Anyway, Manny is not IMO as strong as Mayweather.

Maybe, but when he said (sound like Manny) after it, I thought he was referring to him, maybe I am wrong.

I do think Mayweather has him in the strength department, he is deceptively strong for his size and for a boxer.

Granted in his fight agaisnt Cotto, he was a little slower than normal, but it was marginal, and to be expected at his age.

Ghost.

I was referring to Manny being stronger than Hatton on the inside and that he would be more successful employing similar tactics. Manny is never going to have the size to bully Mayweather but what he will do is is be more successful hurting him with shots on the inside when he gets in. And thats "When", because if the likes of Hatton could make his way in Manny sure as hell will.
I think it would be more likely that Mayweather would nail him on the way out rather than on the way in the way Marquez did.

Anyway I still reckon thats how Mayweather will be beaten if he gets beaten by somebody.

Halloween Jack

Ghost. wrote: »

I was referring to Manny being stronger than Hatton on the inside and that he would be more successful employing similar tactics. Manny is never going to have the size to bully Mayweather but what he will do is is be more successful hurting him with shots on the inside when he gets in. And thats "When", because if the likes of Hatton could make his way in Manny sure as hell will.
I think it would be more likely that Mayweather would nail him on the way out rather than on the way in the way Marquez did.

Anyway I still reckon thats how Mayweather will be beaten if he gets beaten by somebody.

Fair enough.

I unashamedly love floyd the fighter and i unashamedly dislike floyd individual, so it both irks and pleases me to to qoute the man himself

'there is no antidote to floyd mayweather'

Now im not suggesting he is unbeatable, but id suggest he's correct in stating that there is no clear blueprint for beating him. He's very, very good on the inside, as we've been discussing and near unbeatable on the outside, he can fight a number of ways, he traded with mosely, countered marquez to oblivion, rope a doped hatton etc. Even though the reflexes aren't as sharp, he still possesses the finest ring mind of his generation and is one of the most accurate and economical punchers around.

The reason the fight between himself and Manny would have been great is not just because Manny was quick and hit hard, but he was unorthodox, could throw punches from mad angles, dived in at unexpected times, and moved in unconventional ways, for once floyd may have faced something unexpected.

cowzerp

Floyd is the Master in close, worst way to beat him is getting inside!!

Only way this would work is if you're well stronger than him, even been a bot stronger won't cut it, Alvarez to me is well stronger but lacking in footwork to keep him there and speed compared to Floyd, The great thing with Floyd is he can do it all, He doesn't tend to have to but he can attack when he needs to and can bang when he needs to-His chin is solid and his defense is impeccable as Tyson would have said.

Mayweather needs to be beat from a speed merchant at range but odds on that happening are slim to none till age catches up if he keeps on fighting.

When De la Hoya fought Mayweather i was very biased towards De la Hoya as where the commentators and I Thought he won, watching back he was well beaten by Floyd, De la Hoya was landing nothing and eating constant counters, Floyd never even left 2nd gear and easily won that fight-Only time he got hit was when been held and hit and that was no use physically or scoring wise .

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

defense is impeccable as Tyson would have said.
.

Impregnable I think it was. I remember that interview. I think it was after he KO'd Bruno in 1989.

walshb

BTW, Floyd didn't beat Oscar handily at all. It was a very close fight, and the scores reflected this.

Boring fight overall.

Fall_Guy

cowzerp wrote: »

When De la Hoya fought Mayweather i was very biased towards De la Hoya as where the commentators and I Thought he won, watching back he was well beaten by Floyd, De la Hoya was landing nothing and eating constant counters, Floyd never even left 2nd gear and easily won that fight-Only time he got hit was when been held and hit and that was no use physically or scoring wise .

Agree with this 100%, the De La Hoya fight seems close if you are scoring De La Hoya's pressure but in reality it was ineffective pressure, throwing tonnes of shots that Floyd blocked or parried. It was a bit like when people were trying to make out that Ortiz was troubling Floyd before the controversial finish last year because he was rushing Floyd and throwing a lot of shots. But for all Ortiz' aggression he barely put a glove on Mayweather. Floyd was rolling all the shots or taking them on his arms and then landing whenever he countered.

walshb

Fall_Guy wrote: »

Agree with this 100%, the De La Hoya fight seems close if you are scoring De La Hoya's pressure but in reality it was ineffective pressure, throwing tonnes of shots that Floyd blocked or parried. It was a bit like when people were trying to make out that Ortiz was troubling Floyd before the controversial finish last year because he was rushing Floyd and throwing a lot of shots. But for all Ortiz' aggression he barely put a glove on Mayweather. Floyd was rolling all the shots or taking them on his arms and then landing whenever he countered.

Well, Floyd too hit a lot of arms and gloves in that fight. Oscar blocked many many Floyd shots.

Fall_Guy

walshb wrote: »

Well, Floyd too hit a lot of arms and gloves in that fight. Oscar blocked many many Floyd shots.

He did, but Floyd still landed a much higher percentage of his shots. Like you said earlier it was a very poor fight to watch.

cowzerp

Fall_Guy wrote: »

He did, but Floyd still landed a much higher percentage of his shots. Like you said earlier it was a very poor fight to watch.

I genuinely Don't even think De la hoya wanted to win, i think it was passing the torch and making Floyd the Money Machine for both them and Floyd also did not want De la hoya to look bad-Conspiracy theory i know but Floyd took that fight so relaxed like he only wanted to win small.

gene_tunney

I really enjoyed Mayweather vs De La Hoya. Had it 8-4 Floyd but many rounds were close.

Anyway, what's all this rubbish about people saying MP would have to get inside to beat Mayweather? lolwut. Have people here watched Pacquiao fight? He NEVER fights on the inside. Pac is a mid-range, aggressive, counterpunching boxer-puncher. Not an inside fighter.

walshb

Fall_Guy wrote: »

He did, but Floyd still landed a much higher percentage of his shots. Like you said earlier it was a very poor fight to watch.

And that is why I have only watched it once. Maybe a rewatch will sway me, unless I fall asleep watching it again;).

gene_tunney

walshb wrote: »

And that is why I have only watched it once. Maybe a rewatch will sway me, unless I fall asleep watching it again;).

I could watch that fight on repeat all day. Good stuff. I have yet to watch a Mayweather fight I didn't enjoy. Even his one-sided encounters are fascinating, eg vs Marquez.

walshb

gene_tunney wrote: »

I really enjoyed Mayweather vs De La Hoya. Had it 8-4 Floyd but many rounds were close.

Anyway, what's all this rubbish about people saying MP would have to get inside to beat Mayweather? lolwut. Have people here watched Pacquiao fight? He NEVER fights on the inside. Pac is a mid-range, aggressive, counterpunching boxer-puncher. Not an inside fighter.

Exactly. But, he will have to get close enough to land shots on a bigger man. I don't think he wins inside or outside. Floyd makes a foe commit that bit more to be successful. That is what makes him special. Manny will need to change his attacking approach vs. Floyd. It's ok against mummies like Marg and Clottey, but against Floyd I feel Manny will need to be more inventive with his attacks. Anytime Manny is in range to land or connect he will be faced with a fore that is also in range and who possesses great counterpunching and defense, and who is sharper than anyone he has ever faced.

walshb

gene_tunney wrote: »

I could watch that fight on repeat all day. Good stuff. I have yet to watch a Mayweather fight I didn't enjoy. Even his one-sided encounters are fascinating, eg vs Marquez.

I love watching Floyd, but that fight was a bore.

cowzerp

walshb wrote: »

I love watching Floyd, but that fight was a bore.

I rewatched it as i often do when Fighters i may be biased to are in it, Won't watch it again but i would say to Bren-I think you'll be suprised at how easy it all was for a Floyd, Was like he barely tried.

I think you where a big De la hoya fan too?

walshb

cowzerp wrote: »

I rewatched it as i often do when Fighters i may be biased to are in it, Won't watch it again but i would say to Bren-I think you'll be suprised at how easy it all was for a Floyd, Was like he barely tried.

I think you where a big De la hoya fan too?

Yes, I did like Oscar when at his best. His last few years were pretty sad viewing. I always rememberd from the 2007 fight that had Oscar not made the effort then we wouldn't have had a fight. Anyway, I will watch again soon and score it.

I tgink a 1999/2000 Oscar would be too good for a WW Floyd.

Jayob10

cowzerp wrote: »

Floyd is the Master in close, worst way to beat him is getting inside!!

Only way this would work is if you're well stronger than him, even been a bot stronger won't cut it, Alvarez to me is well stronger but lacking in footwork to keep him there and speed compared to Floyd, The great thing with Floyd is he can do it all, He doesn't tend to have to but he can attack when he needs to and can bang when he needs to-His chin is solid and his defense is impeccable as Tyson would have said.

Mayweather needs to be beat from a speed merchant at range but odds on that happening are slim to none till age catches up if he keeps on fighting.

When De la Hoya fought Mayweather i was very biased towards De la Hoya as where the commentators and I Thought he won, watching back he was well beaten by Floyd, De la Hoya was landing nothing and eating constant counters, Floyd never even left 2nd gear and easily won that fight-Only time he got hit was when been held and hit and that was no use physically or scoring wise .

Thats a terrific synopsis Cowzerp, you are spot on.

Posters on here will know i'm no fan of this particular fighter i'm about to mention, but I'm gunna go for it anyways, style's make fights and all that.

Amir Khan, albeit a polished version of Amir Khan has got the tools to trouble Floyd.

Mayweather would not hunt him down and try and catch him with big shots. Mayweather is well able to force the pace, but its not his natural instinct. If Khan could keep it at range, he definately has the speed to trouble Mayweather getting in and out.

This is how everyone believes Khan should fight, but obviously its easier said than done.

cowzerp

Exactly who i was thinking of, I don't think his discipline would last for 12 rounds to not get his chin hit a few times and i can't see him withstanding it.

Jayob10 wrote: »

Thats a terrific synopsis Cowzerp, you are spot on.

Posters on here will know i'm no fan of this particular fighter i'm about to mention, but I'm gunna go for it anyways, style's make fights and all that.

Amir Khan, albeit a polished version of Amir Khan has got the tools to trouble Floyd.

Mayweather would not hunt him down and try and catch him with big shots. Mayweather is well able to force the pace, but its not his natural instinct. If Khan could keep it at range, he definately has the speed to trouble Mayweather getting in and out.

This is how everyone believes Khan should fight, but obviously its easier said than done.

Ghost.

I tgink a 1999/2000 Oscar would be too good for a WW Floyd.

Id agree with that.

Anyway, what's all this rubbish about people saying MP would have to get inside to beat Mayweather? lolwut. Have people here watched Pacquiao fight? He NEVER fights on the inside. Pac is a mid-range, aggressive, counterpunching boxer-puncher. Not an inside fighter.

Its not rubbish. Thats what a lot of people think MP would have to do to beat Mayweather. I think most people have watched him fight!! He is well capable of doing it when he wants.

If Khan hadnt such a dodgey chin I agree he would be able to win a fight with Mayweather at range, probably the only person around at the moment who could. He has good skills but as it stands he would just get KTFO no matter how polished he is because would get hit on the button with Mayweather.

cowzerp

Ghost. wrote: »

Id agree with that.

You'd be wrong!

Ghost. wrote: »

Its not rubbish. Thats what a lot of people think MP would have to do to beat Mayweather. I think most people have watched him fight!! He is well capable of doing it when he wants.

Manny is not an inside fighter and Floyd is the greatest inside fighter around-Beating him inside is not going to happen unless you're way stronger which nobody is near his weight, Canelo would be but just too slow to make it an inside fight and not defensively cute enough.

Manny would eat Right hands all day and Floyd is all wrong for him.

walshb

I still reckon Floyd would completely upset Khan's rhythm and timing. But yes, a fighter like Khan would pose issues. Floyd also has enough pop to hurt Khan.