Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

An Open Letter to All Irish Airsofters *mod warning in post 2 and 143, please read*

Options
12357

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    SeanLEFT wrote: »
    For someone realitively new to the sport can someone fill in the background details with regard IARSA and UKARA and everything

    There's far too much for details. In short; IASRA was a direct competitor to the IAA with commercial interests, organised by and run by a commercial interest, with some fairly alarming proposals to foster onto the community. They were opposed, eventually disbanded, and joined into the IAA to work with rather than against.

    UKARA is the UK airsoft retailers association (also represents sites afaik) and is a red-herring in this particular argument other than to point abroad in comparing what has transpired between players, retailers, and government agencies.

    As for BioHazrd's reply to my post, thank you for replying. I need to clarify a couple of points that I believe you have misinterpreted, and disagree with you further on others (such is life) but I'll get back on that since I'm in work right now.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,363 ✭✭✭gerrowadat


    jayod30 wrote: »
    I agree with you both and I absolutely know how great an airsoft community it is, I have met nothing but the soundest of people since I began and have made some great friends in the process. My point though is how this thread is perceived to people new to the sport, seems alot of personal agendas and opening of old wounds been thrown around, stuff that alot of people don't need or want to see. This thread needs to stay as what it was put up for, saving the IAA, if it can't then it should be locked and leave it to the AGM.:)

    Couldn't agree more. What's ironic is that a lot of the people causing a big noise over this aren't even members.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭Faolchu


    jayod30 wrote: »
    I agree with you both and I absolutely know how great an airsoft community it is, I have met nothing but the soundest of people since I began and have made some great friends in the process. My point though is how this thread is perceived to people new to the sport, .:)


    have to agree with this. I started out about a year ago and had i read teh threads on boards about the IAA i would probably have reconsidered. instead i just turned up to my local site and met some very welcoming people. I've been to 4 sites this year (i dont get out much) and in each case all the oldtimers have invariable made me welcome.

    BUT for someone starting out that hasnt visited a site and see the community for what it really is, one of friendly like minded nutjobs :D then the back and forth in this and other threads of the past can be offputting and ultimatly damaging to the community.

    have retailers anything to add to Airsoft, IMO yes they do, have site operators, again yes. should they be allowed become members of the IAA and even committee members, IMO yes they should but the control of the sport should be held by the players as it is for the players. I cant see why tehy cant be allowed on but restrict their capacity ie no chairperson and a minority holding ie 2 out fo 5 positions max. their experiences with the Gardai, customs, and players would be invaluable to the sport.

    I also think it could make registration with the IAA easier, affiliated stores could have application forms etc, same with sites, though the player would send off the application form not the site. also it could help set a mimimum standard for sites I know one site i've been on there was no visiable first aid box (not saying there wasnt one). another site had a "marshal" that IMO were not old enough to shave, this may have been a once off but that one point meant i never returned to that particular site. by setting minimum standards then players would know what to expect from an affiliated site. it could also help sites when it comes to issue swith teh Gardai and approval letters, because teh IA Awould already know what a site should have and can infom owners who could then get all their ducks in a row before applying to teh super and get their approval quicker

    yes they could set up their own association, but wouldnt that just dilute things? isnt one strong united voice better than two smaller ones?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭BioHazRd


    Lemming wrote: »
    As for BioHazrd's reply to my post, thank you for replying. I need to clarify a couple of points that I believe you have misinterpreted, and disagree with you further on others (such is life) but I'll get back on that since I'm in work right now.

    Disagree as you see fit, I'm all for open debate on any points.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,137 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    On a serious note.

    It's clearly only a suggestion and at this point, really the only one I'm seeing. And fair play to Ritchie for being pro-active. It's alot more work I'd go and do, and he deserves alot of credit for it. Truely giving a **** about what happens.

    So at this point I can see the following options/outcomes/scenarios

    - Ammendment to consitution, we get retailers/sites on the commitee, IAA survives and we move forward.
    - We shoot down the above, IAA folds and our voice for the last 5 or so years vanishes.
    - We have a panic and push anyone into the election, panic vote, and have a commitee unable to perform its tasks.


    I'd probably go with option 1. Worst case scenario, in the event someone has a Tony Montana, arn't the commitee accountable to the members? I'm sure there is some emergency **** that can take place in the event they loose the plot?

    I'd imagine there is safety nets there in the event we ever got a commitee who went insane, so surely if thats properly in place, there shouldn't be too much reservation about firing commercials interests into the hotseat.

    Aslong as the membership hold them to a high standard and they perform their duties as expected, I don't see the problem.

    And aslong as they arnt keeping a secret file on me and my activities, **** might even re-sub ;)


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭Faolchu


    TheDoc wrote: »

    I'd probably go with option 1. Worst case scenario, in the event someone has a Tony Montana, arn't the commitee accountable to the members? I'm sure there is some emergency **** that can take place in the event they loose the plot?

    I'd imagine there is safety nets there in the event we ever got a commitee who went insane, so surely if thats properly in place, there shouldn't be too much reservation about firing commercials interests into the hotseat.


    i assue the constitution allows for the members to call an EGM and not just the committee. if it does then should someone go off tehrails X number of members can call an EGM to resolve teh situation. if it doesnt have such a clause then maybe it should. that way if the committee as a whole act up then the members can call an EGM and remove them from their position by majority vote


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭BioHazRd


    Faolchu wrote: »
    i assue the constitution allows for the members to call an EGM and not just the committee. if it does then should someone go off tehrails X number of members can call an EGM to resolve teh situation. if it doesnt have such a clause then maybe it should. that way if the committee as a whole act up then the members can call an EGM and remove them from their position by majority vote

    You are 100% correct. That facility exists within the constitution. The membership is very much geared towards the players / plinkers / collectors and the committee is accountable to them. This can not change. Any constitutional change must be ratified by the membership. Even if the commercial interests are granted more rights than they currently have, there are a lot more ordinary members.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,137 ✭✭✭✭TheDoc


    Faolchu wrote: »
    i assue the constitution allows for the members to call an EGM and not just the committee. if it does then should someone go off tehrails X number of members can call an EGM to resolve teh situation. if it doesnt have such a clause then maybe it should. that way if the committee as a whole act up then the members can call an EGM and remove them from their position by majority vote

    Agreed , that is my point, there is obviously alot of genuine concern over the initial proposal. But surely there are mechanisms in place to prevent such doomsday scenarios. And if its the only option, one that should be looked at seriously, and most probably excercised as opposed to packing it in.

    Again its about the members holding their commitee to high standards. (and I guess all airsofters since as correclt ypointed out earlier, the mandate is for all airsofters in Ireland)


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,740 ✭✭✭Faolchu


    TheDoc wrote: »
    Agreed , that is my point, there is obviously alot of genuine concern over the initial proposal. But surely there are mechanisms in place to prevent such doomsday scenarios. And if its the only option, one that should be looked at seriously, and most probably excercised as opposed to packing it in.


    well the above would in theory mean that the commercial interests could not run wild so to speak. and if teh change also included a sub clause that limited the number of commercial interest parties on the committee and possible restricts them from holding the highest office in the IAA this would again ensure that players interest take the forefront because players on the committee can overrule by majority vote at a committee meeting, once the chair is not a commercial interest member (the chair usually has a deciding vote in a deadlock situation).

    at the end of the day no players stepped forward, maybe because of what happened in the past, maybe its because the newer players like myself see no immediate benifit of the IAA (not saying there is no benifit), or because they have seen teh grief recieved by past/current committee members and dont want the hassle. so if no players stepped forward this is a workable solution IF its done right


  • Registered Users Posts: 981 ✭✭✭se conman


    Am I right in thinking that there would have to be an EGM to vote on the constitutional change and then (if passed) a further EGM for elections ?


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭BioHazRd


    No. The constitutional change, as far as I am advised, can be voted on at the agm. Once this is voted on a call will be made for an EGM so that any potential candidates can go through the acceptable nomination procedure.
    I don't know what the procedure would be if the amendment is defeated so please don't ask me to speculate. Perhaps someone with a cleverer head can address that one.


  • Registered Users Posts: 981 ✭✭✭se conman


    4. The Agenda of General Meeting and any proposed amendments to the constitution shall be sent to all
    Members at least 30 days before the meeting.
    This is what lead me to ask the question.


  • Registered Users Posts: 941 ✭✭✭AlternateID


    Where can a copy of the constitution be found?

    Cheers


  • Registered Users Posts: 981 ✭✭✭se conman




  • Registered Users Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭BioHazRd


    se conman wrote: »
    4. The Agenda of General Meeting and any proposed amendments to the constitution shall be sent to all
    Members at least 30 days before the meeting.
    This is what lead me to ask the question.

    Granted, however, as there were no nominations, and the agm was called for jan 28, effectively the IAA will cease to exist at the conclusion of the AGM. This is an extraordinary measure to try and save it. If the motion is passed, my understanding is that the nomination process will have been materially changed with a new class of person being eligible for nomination, so the committee can call an EGM for the members to consider the new options. Again, I am no legal expert, and can only offer my advised opinion


  • Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭drpepper


    BioHazRd wrote: »
    Granted, however, as there were no nominations, and the agm was called for jan 28, effectively the IAA will cease to exist at the conclusion of the AGM. This is an extraordinary measure to try and save it. If the motion is passed, my understanding is that the nomination process will have been materially changed with a new class of person being eligible for nomination, so the committee can call an EGM for the members to consider the new options. Again, I am no legal expert, and can only offer my advised opinion

    I'm no fayer but i did learn a thing or two from him and stephane when they were legal advisors so here are the important points as i read them:

    1. The AGM must be held within 90 days of the end of the Financial Year.
    The end of the Financial Year is 31st of December.

    2. At the AGM all positions are declared vacant and shall be filled.
    Those that do not get filled can be done so by EGM.

    So far all the above have been satisfied and will happen.
    As it stands at the end of the AGM we will have no committee and anyone who was in the previous committee must acknowledge this.

    Therefore in order to call the EGM we need the existing committee to do it before the AGM or there is no possible way to call the EGM without it being illegal --- we have 18 days to do point 3 and then the current committee picks a date over 40 days ahead for the EGM.

    3. An EGM requires 30 days notice for the membership
    The proposals need to be sent and received 40 days before the EGM.

    (so we have to put it off for at least 40 days after the AGM)

    4. Nominations will be made and seconded at the AGM.

    ************

    So heres what we can do if we are to save the IAA.

    Nominate people at the AGM for the 6 exec positions
    i. Chairperson
    ii. Vice Chair Person
    iii Secretary
    iv. PRO
    v. Treasurer
    vi. National Childrens Officer.

    Motions:
    1. Remove National Childrens Officer from Executive Committee
    2. Put forward a motion to allow the commercial retailers to have positions but we need to have the number and wording correct.


    Finally, this is not legal advise but believe me it is correct.
    As it stands i will raise my head for an executive position at the very least to get this **** sorted even if temporarily, and i have nothing to lose here except time (which i don't exactly have a lot of but i've got passion which will do for now).


  • Registered Users Posts: 54 ✭✭drpepper


    Double posting to point that we need to do these proposals and have them up and running before time (18 days) runs out.

    Also if you have any time and a desire to continue to make this association succeed then please post up that you want to run for a position.


  • Registered Users Posts: 869 ✭✭✭hrta


    I sincerely apologize to all the named below for my conduit and for the derailing of the thread with Dave, but i have to ask these questions, as this has happened to me, by the last 2009 2010 2011, committees,

    But it needs to be out in the open, as if i try ed to post this on the IAA forum, it would only be deleted, and if the commercial interests are going to take up the post of the IAA,

    They do have the right to know what they are getting in to, and if could have a back lash on them, and put there businesses on the line,
    And what would happen if there was ever a legal case, and don't take this as scaremongering, do your own digging for the info, it all's there if you look for it, ask for it,

    now this paper work they say they have, please ask them for it, and all the notorious reporting and accusing of retailers, and pretty much any site in your vicinity for hot guns, pyro, no insurance, and vandalising your site, that i have so called reported.
    If any of you need to see what paper work i have on this, you are more then welcome to see it.

    And i do really mean it, when i say this, i do hope it works out, for every airsofter out there, and then we can all move on and stronger for it.

    1) How will people's personal data, which is held by the IAA, be used by the commercial interested party's.

    2) Whats to stop the commercial interested party's, from blocking new business from trying to start up, or from monopolizing the market, that's here already.

    3) And how will the commercial interested party's, look after the player, or buyer, act of conflict, even if the act of conflict, is with a member of the commercial interested party's.

    Paul Carey.

    Richard Seery..........Hobby Airsoft..........Affiliate
    Derek Talbot...........Main Irish Airsoft.....Affiliate
    Damian Dobbyn........Red Barn Airsoft......Non-Affiliate
    Brendan O Neill........Fingal Airsoft..........Non-Affiliate
    Lee Yang................SG Airsoft .............Affiliate
    Brian Regan............Airsoft Reloaded......Affiliate
    Stephen Hickey........Airsoft Eire............Affiliate
    Alan Behan.............Strikearms............Affiliate
    Kevin O Toole..........Tallaght CQB..........Non-Affiliate
    David Robinson........Rathbeggan Airsoft..Affiliate
    Peter Sharpe...........Go Tactical............Affiliate
    Keith Richardson......Tigerland..............Affiliate
    Tony Roche.............Mid West Airsoft.....Non-Affiliate
    Joe Turner..............Asylum Airsoft........Non-Affiliate
    Tony McCann...........The Airsoft Centre...Non-Affiliate


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,404 ✭✭✭ricka


    I was approached by an Airsoft enthusiast who had an idea of how to stop the IAA from collapse.
    Off his own back,without any reason other than preserve an organisation he believes is fundamental to the continuance of Airsoft in Ireland, he put foward a plan to keep it from failing.
    Nothing unethical, no hidden motives, just trying to preserve the IAA.
    He approached just a few, again no hidden agenda, just a simple case of going to the guys he knows best, saying 'spread the word'.
    This I did and yes some did not agree.
    While I haven't agreed with everything posted by those opposing it, there have been some valid points raised.
    While some of the posts have gone considerably off topic, there is a genuine concern that there is a conflict of interest.And they're right, there very well could be.
    However do any people have an answer to how you control that, maybe we could come up with something before the AGM.

    Just to add, I would say this thread may not be the train wreck its being perceived.
    It has stirred emotions but hopefully has got people interested in attending the AGM.
    If it leads to some genuine nominations for positions, like that of drpepper's 's post above, then it's been worthwhile.
    The last thing we need is people to attend or nominate just to scupper this idea.We need people who are up for the job.
    If we don't get nominations from players, then some of us are here and willing to go for exec positions.
    I can't speak for all the retailers and site owners, but personally I would be delighted if we don't have to take on all these roles.

    I didn't give the letter a huge amount of time or thought before signing it.
    The time span for agreeing was so short, it negated time for debate and in my opinion, scuppering it!
    Too many times these types of meeting are cancelled as a result of disagreements over times, agenda, invites....you know what I mean!
    It was quite simply the best opportunity possible to get us all together.

    If the IAA positions are filled by players then that's fine by me.
    If they're filled by a combination of players and commercial interests again that's fine in my opinion.
    If the IAA positions are filled by commercial interests only,then maybe with the proper structures in place, it could work.

    If there are enough non commercial nominations to fill the board then I hope the retailers ans site owners will use this time to start something on their own or in conjunction with the IAA.
    What happens in the next few weeks may be a good thing for Airsoft in Ireland.I think it's well overdue geting this sorted.My hope is is we have a strong IAA committee with a combination of players, retailers and site owners.This would and should work


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,088 ✭✭✭BioHazRd


    hrta wrote: »
    1) How will people's personal data, which is held by the IAA, be used by the commercial interested party's.

    It will be used for committee related work only as defined by the data protection act 1988 and as amended by the data protection (amendment) act 2003 - as already explained.
    hrta wrote: »
    2) Whats to stop the commercial interested party's, from blocking new business from trying to start up, or from monopolizing the market, that's here already.

    The law. Specifically the competition act 2002 - as already explained
    hrta wrote: »
    3) And how will the commercial interested party's, look after the player, or buyer, act of conflict, even if the act of conflict, is with a member of the commercial interested party's.

    The issue will be dealt with by non partisan members of the committee as would be normal in those circumstances (as has happened in the past). Any grievances will be brought to the attention of the committee (which should ideally comprise 6 people), so i am pretty sure an independent adjudicator could easily be found. Bear in mind the proposal is that the chair be reserved solely for non commercialy interested parties, so that could be an option if someone wanted a fair hearing, so highly unlikely at all that this scenario you are worried about could happen.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kdouglas


    Thread closed. I'll review these posts later this morning and take action as necessary.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,414 ✭✭✭kdouglas


    Ok, I'm going to start wading through this thread to see what I can do, I'm in work at the moment though, so it'll be back open when I have time to go through everything.

    Edit @ 11.12: Finished reading now, I'll be splitting off some posts and issuing infractions. Thread will re-open shortly.
    There are also some legal questions raised here which I will need to ask a CMod or possibly Admin to advise on.

    Edit @ 11.21: Ok, a few posts have been removed for several reaons;
    1) Posts which had direct allegations of, or alluded to, illegal activity and possible ongoing Garda investigation surrounding same.
    2) Posts in response to above
    3) Comments which directly mocked another poster.
    3) Off-topic posts

    I'll be asking a CMod/Admin to investigate posts relating to 1 and 2 above.

    For now, this thread is re-opened. Healthy and open debate regarding the topic is encouraged, if anyone brings up the content from the removed posts, they will be given a very heavy ban.


  • Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭Mister TETRA


    Just a suggestion here people that may resolve a few issues. Maybe a good idea or be shot down straight off the bat but stick with me.

    This is a sport and as such should be run like one. If you look across any sport in Ireland, or and country for that matter, it is heavily club based. Why not this route for Airsoft.

    Suggestion is.
    The IAA committee will be expanded from 3-5 members to X amount. Agreed that there are certain positions that must be filled. Chairperson, treasurer and so forth. These positions can only be held by persons of non commercial interest.
    Airsofters have the right to set up their own club. Put a minimum set number of players before the club is recognized by the IAA. Example 40 people. Out of these 40 people they will nominate 1 person who will represent them in the IAA. Every county could have a club or some counties could have multiple clubs. This can all be ironed out through sensible discussion. This way everyone get a voice, within reason. The ranks of the IAA swells and no 5 people get full control. When a vote is called for an issue then all clubs can discuss the issue in house and send a decision forward and the vote is counted. That’s the players sorted.

    Site owners. (Myself included).
    Sites have the right to setup a club. Example Redbarn Airsoft club. They have X members and are recognised by the IAA. They get one vote.

    Retailers.
    All retailers are extended the one vote policy because this is where the IAA is heavily advertised. Also retailers are the ones most at risk if the IAA close. They, above all else, have invested more money, time and effort in making the sport more accessible to the general public.

    Create a position of data protection officer. A non commercial postion filled by someone who has knowledge in DPA and an IT background or someone just senseible enought to know what they are doing.

    The theory is if there are only 30 clubs around the country not affiliated with a site you will still outnumber the sites and retailers, thus removing the issue of a hostile takeover.
    To me this makes sense. On other matters I have further suggestions.

    1. To be affiliated with the IAA all site owners must meet a minimum standard set down by the body. Example. Insurance must be proven before you get a say. Sites must have Permission from the Superintendent of the local station. All sites should have a VAT or company number registered with the IAA and is fully tax compliant.

    2. You could push for mandatory signup to the IAA. This would be free to all airsofters and the price be absorbed by the sites and retailers with an annual fee to the IAA. Say €1000. I’d happily pay that for my customers. There would be no pressure from the IAA for players to do anything. Just be constantly updated via email of what is happening in the sport.

    Don’t think because I’m a site owner I want special privileges or access to every Airsofters email address for mailing. It would be nice but that’s not why we opened the site. We opened it because we love Airsoft. I want to see it go from strength to strength and this is one possible way forward.

    And above all else.

    I am an Airsofter first and foremost.

    Dave.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    Airsofters have the right to set up their own club. Put a minimum set number of players before the club is recognized by the IAA. Example 40 people. Out of these 40 people they will nominate 1 person who will represent them in the IAA. Every county could have a club or some counties could have multiple clubs. This can all be ironed out through sensible discussion. This way everyone get a voice, within reason. The ranks of the IAA swells and no 5 people get full control. When a vote is called for an issue then all clubs can discuss the issue in house and send a decision forward and the vote is counted. That’s the players sorted.

    Site owners. (Myself included).
    Sites have the right to setup a club. Example Redbarn Airsoft club. They have X members and are recognised by the IAA. They get one vote.

    The above bit falls down I think for a couple of points. Firstly, is the critical mass needed for such a setup to function properly. There aren't enough players in each county to form that number of clubs, and you then run the risk of larger urban areas dominating through sheer voting power.

    I may be wrong here as I have been out of the country a while - but afaik most clubs formed in the country were done so to also establish a local site on which to play. Sites & clubs generally are already competing for numbers on a weekly basis, and much like the state of retailers in the country, there is over-saturation which is bad.

    So there's a blur between sites & clubs in the above proposal where they are the one and same, but obviously different since a club is esentially a 'by invitation only/members only' site.

    I recall plans for regional representatives for the IAA - which would work in a similar manner to what I think you're trying to propose, i.e. closer representation of the membership? If' I've picked it up wrong then fair enough I'll stand corrected. Not sure what ever happened to those plans for regional reps.
    Create a position of data protection officer. A non commercial postion filled by someone who has knowledge in DPA and an IT background or someone just senseible enought to know what they are doing.

    Rather than create a new role within the IAA, I would suggest that whomever is the webmaster or legal liason be tasked with the task.


  • Registered Users Posts: 769 ✭✭✭AirsoftEire.com


    ricka wrote: »
    I didn't give the letter a huge amount of time or thought before signing it.
    The time span for agreeing was so short, it negated time for debate and in my opinion, scuppering it!
    Too many times these types of meeting are cancelled as a result of disagreements over times, agenda, invites....you know what I mean!
    It was quite simply the best opportunity possible to get us all together.

    If the IAA positions are filled by players then that's fine by me.
    If they're filled by a combination of players and commercial interests again that's fine in my opinion.
    If the IAA positions are filled by commercial interests only,then maybe with the proper structures in place, it could work.

    If there are enough non commercial nominations to fill the board then I hope the retailers ans site owners will use this time to start something on their own or in conjunction with the IAA.
    What happens in the next few weeks may be a good thing for Airsoft in Ireland.I think it's well overdue geting this sorted.My hope is is we have a strong IAA committee with a combination of players, retailers and site owners.This would and should work

    Bit of a cop-out to say I agree with this and that's all I want to add, but Richards post pretty much sums up my thoughts on the whole thing.
    I too didn't give the letter much thought before signing, however to me it was a no-brainer.

    From being around well before and then during, the IAAs hard work with the Dept of Justice, and when the members were travelling around the country on their own time to ensure affiliates had suitable premises, practices, standards etc, it was clear how important the IAA were and still are.

    The bottom line is that the IAA is on the rocks, no members put themselves forwards, nor did any players. We all agreed (retailers and sites) that if the aforementioned didn't want to be part of it (whether its down to not knowing about the positions or unwillingness to take part I don't know), we have to become part it if its to remain active. However maybe now that more players know about the AGM, there may be no need for us to be part of the IAA, thats fine by me.
    Its about keeping the IAA alive, nothing more, no conflicting interests and all that messing around. But the commercial entities still, without a doubt in my mind, need some kind of organisation to increase our strength as a whole.

    The fact is that it's the retailers and sites that are dealing with the authorities day in and day out. If we cannot deal with the Dept of Justice, Gardaí, Customs, Firearms unit, Revenue etc, as a WHOLE, then we're all p*ssing in the wind. Ideally, I think the IAA should be made of up of both players and commercial entities. To exclude either/or (this may/may not have been suggested) is infeasible and narrow-minded.

    I think its a big mistake not to let shops/sites become active members. Players/sites/shops cannot survive without each other, but crucially the law directly effects business first, and players as a result. If things can be ironed out regarding the law, licenses, importation etc etc between business and the dept of justice/customs over the next year with the IAAs help, we can secure the sport for many more years to come.

    See you all at the AGM.

    Stephen


  • Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭Mister TETRA


    Bit of a cop-out to say I agree with this and that's all I want to add, but Richards post pretty much sums up my thoughts on the whole thing.
    I too didn't give the letter much thought before signing, however to me it was a no-brainer.

    From being around well before and then during, the IAAs hard work with the Dept of Justice, and when the members were travelling around the country on their own time to ensure affiliates had suitable premises, practices, standards etc, it was clear how important the IAA were and still are.

    The bottom line is that the IAA is on the rocks, no members put themselves forwards, nor did any players. We all agreed (retailers and sites) that if the aforementioned didn't want to be part of it (whether its down to not knowing about the positions or unwillingness to take part I don't know), we have to become part it if its to remain active. However maybe now that more players know about the AGM, there may be no need for us to be part of the IAA, thats fine by me.
    Its about keeping the IAA alive, nothing more, no conflicting interests and all that messing around. But the commercial entities still, without a doubt in my mind, need some kind of organisation to increase our strength as a whole.

    The fact is that it's the retailers and sites that are dealing with the authorities day in and day out. If we cannot deal with the Dept of Justice, Gardaí, Customs, Firearms unit, Revenue etc, as a WHOLE, then we're all p*ssing in the wind. Ideally, I think the IAA should be made of up of both players and commercial entities. To exclude either/or (this may/may not have been suggested) is infeasible and narrow-minded.

    I think its a big mistake not to let shops/sites become active members. Players/sites/shops cannot survive without each other, but crucially the law directly effects business first, and players as a result. If things can be ironed out regarding the law, licenses, importation etc etc between business and the dept of justice/customs over the next year with the IAAs help, we can secure the sport for many more years to come.

    See you all at the AGM.

    Stephen

    I completely agree with Stephen. In fact NOBODY has more to lose or more on the line than Retailers and Site owners.

    I'll see you all at the AGM.

    Dave.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,763 ✭✭✭Airsoft Reloded


    At the end of the day passing this motion doesn't mean that commercial interests are going to take over the IAA, sure most likely a lot of us wouldn't run for a position. It just means that some individuals who really want to help, have time available and the skills needed and can take up a position within the association. Even if they do it isn't going to be a white wash of everything the IAA stands for. Why would they run for a position within the IAA if they don't agree with where it is going? If we look after each other we can take airsoft to greater heights in Ireland, maybe to the level of England and other countries.

    The important thing about this motion is that it is a statement that we are all willing to work together, even if its in a support role only I would personally have no problem providing space for IAA sales/sign ups, funds, support or man power to the IAA if it is representative of all of our interests and has people within it who are in a position to commit to run it properly. I would also have no problem providing help to other sites or retailers in the form of lending marshalls or bringing a group to thier site for events or advertising retailers when they have sales on or a new deal they have on offer.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,061 ✭✭✭Arkslippy


    Mister tetra has the basis of a good plan. golf in Ireland is.run on a similar basis.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,431 ✭✭✭✭Blazer


    To be honest I was tempted to join the IAA as I've some free time on my hands and wanted to be involved.
    However and this is a huge problem....for the past two years I just couldn't join up.
    First off there was the paypal issue and this went on for about 6 months and when it was finally resolved back in last February and I got the form in and paid the printer :rolleyes: went down and I've yet to get a membership card.
    I've sent numerous emails about both the paypal issue and the printer issue and got the usual reassurances that it would all be fixed soon but it's still going on to this date...I'm not even sure if I'm a member or not...:confused:

    In the face of losing the IAA completely then we need to involve retailers etc and allow them to hold some of the positions but players must put themselves forward for it.
    After the issue of last year within the IAA we need people who will represent the sport with Integrity etc regardless of whether they're commercially involved or not.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 178 ✭✭Mister TETRA


    Blazer wrote: »
    To be honest I was tempted to join the IAA as I've some free time on my hands and wanted to be involved.
    However and this is a huge problem....for the past two years I just couldn't join up.
    First off there was the paypal issue and this went on for about 6 months and when it was finally resolved back in last February and I got the form in and paid the printer :rolleyes: went down and I've yet to get a membership card.
    I've sent numerous emails about both the paypal issue and the printer issue and got the usual reassurances that it would all be fixed soon but it's still going on to this date...I'm not even sure if I'm a member or not...:confused:

    In the face of losing the IAA completely then we need to involve retailers etc and allow them to hold some of the positions but players must put themselves forward for it.
    After the issue of last year within the IAA we need people who will represent the sport with Integrity etc regardless of whether they're commercially involved or not.
    Retailers and some site owners could be in a position to take over this card issue, but I believe the issue is that we will have access to people's details as they sign up. Even as a site owner I feel this is wrong, but we could provide the equipment involved in the process. I have no problem in loaning or paying for printers and sundries to the IAA.

    As for PayPal and other Internet based issues, there should be an IT position within the IAA to deal with this.


Advertisement