An Open Letter to All Irish Airsofters *mod warning in post 2 and 143, please read*

Lemming

Blazer wrote: »

To be honest I was tempted to join the IAA as I've some free time on my hands and wanted to be involved.
However and this is a huge problem....for the past two years I just couldn't join up.
First off there was the paypal issue and this went on for about 6 months and when it was finally resolved back in last February and I got the form in and paid the printer :rolleyes: went down and I've yet to get a membership card.
I've sent numerous emails about both the paypal issue and the printer issue and got the usual reassurances that it would all be fixed soon but it's still going on to this date...I'm not even sure if I'm a member or not...

Nothing out of the ordinary there in that it's always been an issue. I was a member of the IAA from the start and in all the years I was a member I received never a membership card. I once received a letter confirming my updated, 'special' membership number (as part of a charity auction) but that was in 2007 or very early 2008 if I recall.

Mister TETRA

Lemming wrote: »

Blazer wrote: »

To be honest I was tempted to join the IAA as I've some free time on my hands and wanted to be involved.
However and this is a huge problem....for the past two years I just couldn't join up.
First off there was the paypal issue and this went on for about 6 months and when it was finally resolved back in last February and I got the form in and paid the printer :rolleyes: went down and I've yet to get a membership card.
I've sent numerous emails about both the paypal issue and the printer issue and got the usual reassurances that it would all be fixed soon but it's still going on to this date...I'm not even sure if I'm a member or not...

Nothing out of the ordinary there in that it's always been an issue. I was a member of the IAA from the start and in all the years I was a member I received never a membership card. I once received a letter confirming my updated, 'special' membership number (as part of a charity auction) but that was in 2007 or very early 2008 if I recall.

But you should receive a card, information about the sport, where you can play Airsoft, what are the conditions of carting your equipment around and regular updates on changes to anything Airsoft related.

Lemming

Mister TETRA wrote: »

But you should receive a card, information about the sport, where you can play Airsoft, what are the conditions of carting your equipment around and regular updates on changes to anything Airsoft related.

Should and do are two different things Tetra. I was pointing out that Blazer's complaints were not unique to the 2011 committee, or the 2010 committee, or the 2009 committee, etc. but a recurring problem that really has needed addressed for quite some time.

Mister TETRA

Lemming wrote: »

Mister TETRA wrote: »

But you should receive a card, information about the sport, where you can play Airsoft, what are the conditions of carting your equipment around and regular updates on changes to anything Airsoft related.

Should and do are two different things Tetra. I was pointing out that Blazer's complaints were not unique to the 2011 committee, or the 2010 committee, or the 2009 committee, etc. but a recurring problem that really has needed addressed for quite some time.

So an issue as simple as posting cards and storing information on an Excel spreadsheet was never fixed for years?

Lemming

Mister TETRA wrote: »

So an issue as simple as posting cards and storing information on an Excel spreadsheet was never fixed for years?

I'm sure the information is stored. It has to be or else AGM admissions (and decisions held therein) would be unreliable and open to valid challenge.

But from a member's correspondance/membership card point of view I can only give you my experience, although I will point out that there have been similar complaints by others over the years so I am not unique in my experience.

J.D.R

I'm just curious, is there any reports available to show where the membership fee actually finances?

Mister TETRA

J.D.R wrote: »

I'm just curious, is there any reports available to show where the membership fee actually finances?

The membership fee would be handled by the treasurer of the IAA. I'm sure a spreadsheet is there covering cost of the IAA versus the income. Cash from membership would go towards the website and towards the rental of the room for the AGM along with other things.

J.D.R

Mister TETRA wrote: »

The membership fee would be handled by the treasurer of the IAA. I'm sure a spreadsheet is there covering cost of the IAA versus the income. Cash from membership would go towards the website and towards the rental of the room for the AGM along with other things.

The only reason I ask is, judging by last years AGM there are 150 "Active Paid up members", which, not including affiliates revenue, means there is 1500 euro to fund the rental of 1 room and 1 (unmaintained) website.

Surely it can't be that much hassle to print 150 packs once a year to give the outline of what has been achieved, what is hoped to be achieved, what needs to happen next year etc.

fayer

J.D.R wrote: »

The only reason I ask is, judging by last years AGM there are 150 "Active Paid up members", which, not including affiliates revenue, means there is 1500 euro to fund the rental of 1 room and 1 (unmaintained) website.

Surely it can't be that much hassle to print 150 packs once a year to give the outline of what has been achieved, what is hoped to be achieved, what needs to happen next year etc.

Very hard for an association to spend money when it has no volunteers to do the spending and run projects, also I am hoping to here an explanation myself at the AGM of why it took so long to get the accounts and money back from the previous committee (this may have affected the signup process, but that is a guess).

Nuke1973

fayer wrote: »

Very hard for an association to spend money when it has no volunteers to do the spending and run projects, also I am hoping to here an explanation myself at the AGM of why it took so long to get the accounts and money back from the previous committee (this may have affected the signup process, but that is a guess).

it definitely affected people signing up as I know at least 10 people who wouldn't sign up because of it.

Only paid up myself this week, now comes the wait. Hope I have membership in time for AGM

se conman

With regard to events of the last couple of years , yes I would like to know what really happened or went on , am I entitled to know ? probably yes. Do I need to know ? No.
I would gladly draw a line through the whole episode and just move on. IAA part II. The greatest sin would be if we don't learn from past issues and keep moving forward. If we move on a few people will be miffed , if we get fully to the bottom of everything and make everything open it will cause splits and rows all across the board.

BioHazRd

Nuke1973 wrote: »

Only paid up myself this week, now comes the wait. Hope I have membership in time for AGM

Once you apply and pay for membership online, you get a membership number, ergo you are a member.

If you pay by postal order, once the order is received, a manual entry is put in the database, and a membership number is generated. Your membership commences then.

For those that insist that they are not members till they receive their card, everything will be done to ensure that everyone is up to date before the AGM with cards

At the AGm, it is customary to have a printout of all members eligible to attend and this is checked at the door. Even if you dont have your membership card / number with you (though this would be a great help), the committee can verify your details for you

BioHazRd

se conman wrote: »

Do I need to know ? No.

se conman wrote: »

The greatest sin would be if we don't learn from past issues

Thats kinda contradictory.

At last years AGM, the incoming committee made a commitment to publish their findings. I believe that this will be presented at the AGM.

AlternateID

BioHazRd wrote: »

Once you apply and pay for membership online, you get a membership number, ergo you are a member.

If you pay by postal order, once the order is received, a manual entry is put in the database, and a membership number is generated. Your membership commences then.

For those that insist that they are not members till they receive their card, everything will be done to ensure that everyone is up to date before the AGM with cards

At the AGm, it is customary to have a printout of all members eligible to attend and this is checked at the door. Even if you dont have your membership card / number with you (though this would be a great help), the committee can verify your details for you

Quick clarification - are you still on the committee? If not who is still there?

Cheers

se conman

BioHazRd wrote: »

Thats kinda contradictory.

At last years AGM, the incoming committee made a commitment to publish their findings. I believe that this will be presented at the AGM.

I mean those involved will hopefully learn from the past and move on.

BioHazRd

AlternateID wrote: »

Quick clarification - are you still on the committee? If not who is still there?

Cheers

I am not on the committee anymore

Currently, as far as I am aware you have Tadhg Scanlan, Tommy Keogh and Alan Ciapas. I am slightly out of the loop so I am open to correction on that

Nuke1973

BioHazRd wrote: »

Once you apply and pay for membership online, you get a membership number, ergo you are a member.

If you pay by postal order, once the order is received, a manual entry is put in the database, and a membership number is generated. Your membership commences then.

For those that insist that they are not members till they receive their card, everything will be done to ensure that everyone is up to date before the AGM with cards

At the AGm, it is customary to have a printout of all members eligible to attend and this is checked at the door. Even if you dont have your membership card / number with you (though this would be a great help), the committee can verify your details for you

Cool,

I paid via Paypal but didn't see a number. I'll bring my receipt to the AGM if i haven't heard anything before then

Not too bothered about a card although it would be handy for travelling abroad with guns

Thanks

se conman

Just a reminder to everyone attending the IAA AGM , remember to bring photo ID if you don't have an IAA membership card.

cobra 08

BioHazRd wrote: »

Once you apply and pay for membership online, you get a membership number, ergo you are a member.

Well I paid the 10euro online and recieved nothing. Then emailed them about it and was told they where waiting on information to be passed on by the previous committee. In the end got no card and no membership no. so just gave up on the issue and lost all repect for the IAA after that.

hrta

BioHazRd wrote: »

Thats kinda contradictory.

At last years AGM, the incoming committee made a commitment to publish their findings. I believe that this will be presented at the AGM.

1)Will all the people involved in the findings, be presented at the AGM

2) When did the people involved, answer to the complaint.

3) what disciplinary matters are to take place, or did take place.

4) will the findings be published on a public forum, and if not why.

under article 15.
1. The IAA acknowledges rights, which are extended to all Members of the Association. All Members
of the IAA are entitled to the same rights, and may enjoy those rights by continued proper conduct
within the sport.
2. No Member shall be deprived of Membership, either temporarily or permanently, without the
opportunity to plead their case to the Executive Committee.
3. No Member will be subject to any penalty for alleged infractions against the terms of the IAA without
due process.
4. Any Member subject to disciplinary action by the Executive Committee is entitled to a fair hearing
and all matters applicable and reasonable will be taken into account at said hearing before a decision
is taken.
9. Any Member subject to disciplinary action by the Executive Committee is entitled to assistance by
and/or joint representation with another Member at a hearing.
10. No Member shall be forced to forfeit property, monies or materials in order to become or to
remain a Member of the IAA, save as to the payment of annual subscription fees.
11. No demand will be made of, nor Membership contingency be placed upon, any Member to
attend a minimum number of events or meetings during their Membership term.
12. No demands for unnecessary fees or superfluous monetary contributions will be made upon
any Member of the IAA.
13. No Member of the IAA will be forced to endure hazing or initiation rights in order to join or
remain a Member.
14. Any Member of the IAA may inform the Committee of a grievance regarding any topic related
to the organisation, operation, administration and general activities of the IAA and its Members and
can be assured that all reasonable time and effort will be given to the subject.
15. The anonymity of any Member of the IAA who believes it to be their duty to report an act of
misconduct by another Member is sacrosanct, and all reasonable efforts shall be made by the
Committee to protect their identity from becoming public, at least until such time as the act of
misconduct is qualified.
16. No Member of the IAA will be expected to favour one Airsoft related commercial interest
over another in order to maintain Membership.
13. The IAA acknowledges that it has no legal right to impose monetary fines or to confiscate
property belonging to any individual or Member of the IAA and under no circumstances will any
Member of the IAA attempt to do so.

se conman

I would imagine (as a non-committee member) that ,
1 The IAA can NOT force people to attend the AGM.
2 and 3 This will ONLY be addressed at the AGM and not before.
4 What ever is discussed at the AGM will be discussed/posted on public forums.
As I said , this is only my opinion or take on how things will pan out.

Sam Fisher

What date is the AGM on? Can a non IAA member attend the AGM? If not, can one join the IAA at the AGM and attend?

se conman

AGM is on the 28th Jan , You must be a paid up member of the IAA by 15th Jan in order to attend.

Tommyboy71

BioHazRd wrote: »

I am not on the committee anymore

Currently, as far as I am aware you have Tadhg Scanlan, Tommy Keogh and Alan Ciapas. I am slightly out of the loop so I am open to correction on that

This is correct. Thanks Richie.

Tommyboy71

se conman wrote: »

AGM is on the 28th Jan , You must be a paid up member of the IAA by 15th Jan in order to attend.

Correction on that. You must be paid up by January 20th.

Mister TETRA

What about the site owners and retailers. We can attended right.

se conman

Mister TETRA wrote: »

What about the site owners and retailers. We can attended right.

If you are a paid up member by 20th Jan .

BioHazRd

Mister TETRA wrote: »

What about the site owners and retailers. We can attended right.

You can either become an individual member by Jan 20th, or become an affiliated retailer / site. The time frame for the second option rules that one out I'm afraid.

Just to remind you, the AGM is only open to members of the IAA. The minutes etc will be publically posted afterwards

Members sre both individual members and affiliated members. The main difference is that affiliated members dont have a vote

sliabh

What is the situation with regards to those of us who followed the website instructions and paid via PayPal, only to be told that the current committee cannot access that money (to bank or refund it)?

drpepper

sliabh wrote: »

What is the situation with regards to those of us who followed the website instructions and paid via PayPal, only to be told that the current committee cannot access that money (to bank or refund it)?

I would print my receipt showing the recipient info and your details and photo ID. Nobody should refuse you entry with that info.

Nuke1973

Looks like i'll be out of the country for the agm. Can i still put myself forward if i dont attand ?

gerrowadat

Nuke1973 wrote: »

Looks like i'll be out of the country for the agm. Can i still put myself forward if i dont attand ?

Yes, it's been done before. Both IASRA candidates for election in the 2010 AGM weren't at the AGM.

Danin

Hi Lads,

I've just read through this Thread and would like to voice my opinions regarding some responses I've read.

First and foremost, I regard myself as a player first and a site operator second and as such, I'd also like to remind some people that I was a player long before I was a site operator.

Also as a Site operator I have no need to run for the hills due to the fact that as a site we had everything required to open in place before we did so.

From a personal point of view, I can honestly see both sides and can totally empathise with players and their concerns regarding this situation.

I do think though that with certain criteria put in place to safeguard these concerns, the positives would far out weight any negatives and Airsoft in Ireland would only benefit from the inclusion of Site Operators and Retailers because at the end of the day one can not exist without the other meaning a site cannot run without players and players cant play without sites.

So by that rationale we are all in this together for the protection, betterment and growth of the sport.

I know change is hard and some people would prefer that everything remain the same but as most of you would agree, sometimes regardless of whether you may like it or not change is good and in my opinion at this juncture it is needed for the good of the sport.

Tigger

Well said

Also if there were 100% commercial people involved would this not mean that if they tried to change rules or make airsoft work for them that they would be voted out.

I don't know if any of the lads from the northwest area are IAA members but if it ment that Keith might do us the favour of helping run the IAA i gaurentee that every one of them would vote this change in.

Why people that have helped to grow the sport are not allowed rep[resent the sport is and always has been beyond me. I can possaibly see an argument against retaillers (although retaillers do/did contribute towards the growth) but people who put their hands in their pockets and who put in the very hard work to provide places for us to play have done more for our sport than everyone save the few who founded the IAA and who have given up their time to run it since then.

Btw I'm not a iaa member, i was but i never got a card and i've never voted in my life so i didn';t see the point. In my opinion the retaillers and site owners have the most invested and their should be part of the group that protects the sport.

Tigger

ha sanyone propsosed the motion in the op?
the motion proposed on the egm2011 forum is different

fayer

I put forward a version that gives grater protection to the player control of the association. (I drafted the original)

Any other member is free to put forward what ever motions they like.

Steve

Tigger

fayer wrote: »

I put forward a version that gives grater protection to the player control of the association. (I drafted the original)

Any other member is free to put forward what ever motions they like.

Steve

i prefered the original
i'm just pointing out that the one you drafted and the one thats been put forward are different, i had originally assumed that they were the same.

fayer

Tigger wrote: »

i prefered the original
i'm just pointing out that the one you drafted and the one thats been put forward are different, i had originally assumed that they were the same.

Go for it.

I think people in this debate have forgot its the members that decide what happens, they will vote and reject an amendment they don't like. Good to give them the choice, you should defo propose the wording you like.

Steve

Tigger

my membership has lapsed and my membership of an affiliated club dosent let me

Tigger

if the proposed chaange to the iaa constitution happens and the vice chair is a commercially challanged person then what happens when the chaair steps down cos most years when the chair steps down or goes mad or whatever happens them the vice chair becomes acting chair
does the proposal wording allow for this

it seems to but i often get thisngs wrong wrt constitutions

Tommyboy71

Tigger. In the situation you describe, the Vice-Chair usually takes over as acting-Chairman. A replacement Chariman may be co-opted by the remaining committee members without that person being voted in.

And as has been said, if the membership decide, an EGM may be called within the confines of the constitution and a new Chariman can be voted in. So there are protections to prevent commercial interests taking over the chair.

Tigger

Cool Bandannas

Danin

Lads just wanted to make a suggestion here as I will not make the meeting, would it be possible for the IAA to supply Sites with a number of printed forms for the application for membership to the IAA which could be distributed to players on the respected site, these forms could be replenished when required and it would then be up to the player to submit their application.

It's just that not everyone that plays has access to the internet and some don't trust filling in forms on it either but with a printed from which could also explain exactly what membership gives them might help and I'm sure it would be welcomed.

as I said it's just an idea and I'd appreciate your comments

thanks

fayer

Danin wrote: »

Lads just wanted to make a suggestion here as I will not make the meeting, would it be possible for the IAA to supply Sites with a number of printed forms for the application for membership to the IAA which could be distributed to players on the respected site, these forms could be replenished when required and it would then be up to the player to submit their application.

It's just that not everyone that plays has access to the internet and some don't trust filling in forms on it either but with a printed from which could also explain exactly what membership gives them might help and I'm sure it would be welcomed.

as I said it's just an idea and I'd appreciate your comments

thanks

Up to the new committee but this has been normal for many years.

Danin

Cool Fayer no problem, it's just I've never seen them or been given any so I wasn't aware

but thanks for clearing it up and for such a quick response.