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Irish rebel music

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    #392
    Defiler Of The Coffin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭Defiler Of The Coffin


    Paparazzo wrote: »
    It is simple. Celtic are British. They might have a portion of fans with Irish links. but as a football club they're 100% British. Pretending they're an Irish club is delusional.

    No one disagreed with you that they are British. People argued with you on the notion that it was 'ironic' for republicans to support them.

    And a 'portion' of fans with Irish links?! How big or small would you reckon this portion to be?


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    #393
    Paparazzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,398 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »
    No one disagreed with you that they are British. People argued with you on the notion that it was 'ironic' for republicans to support them.

    And a 'portion' of fans with Irish links?! How big or small would you reckon this portion to be?
    You said its not as simplistic as saying they're simply British. When really it is. Do I have to explain the irony of a load of people singing rebel songs while cheering for a team that represents Britain?


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    #394
    Defiler Of The Coffin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭Defiler Of The Coffin


    Paparazzo wrote: »
    You said its not as simplistic as saying they're simply British. When really it is. Do I have to explain the irony of a load of people singing rebel songs while cheering for a team that represents Britain?

    Go on then. Explain it. Convince me you are not simply trolling


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    #395
    Defiler Of The Coffin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭Defiler Of The Coffin


    Here is a picture of the stadium of a club you dismiss as being 'simply British' http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1079/1332766014_6e04b26013.jpg


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    #396
    Paparazzo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,398 ✭✭✭Paparazzo


    Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »
    Go on then. Explain it. Convince me you are not simply trolling

    If you think I'm trolling report my posts.
    Rebel songs = anti British
    Celtic = British


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    #397
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    R P McMurphy wrote: »
    Care to clarify what you mean by this? I take it you are referring to THE Luke Kelly

    Without doubt my favourite in this genre is the foggy dwe

    Granted we can claim foggy dew, and many other luke songs, but i would say 3/4's of lukes material came from abroad and mostly from britain. I haven't the time to go through all his songs, but looking at his "best of" as an example the following are not irish:
    1. song for ireland
    2. dirty old town
    3. Home, Boys, Home
    4. the holy ground
    5. black velvet band - british oz origin, renamed black velvet band.
    6. joe hill
    7. night visiting song
    8. the unquiet grave
    9. Gentleman Soldier
    10. Peat Bog Soldiers
    11. Sun Is Burning
    12. Alabama 58
    13. Springhill Mining Disaster


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    #398
    carfiosaoorl
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭carfiosaoorl


    I love Irish rebel songs. This is one of my favourites :)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZb10nNN6WI


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    #399
    Defiler Of The Coffin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,117 ✭✭✭Defiler Of The Coffin


    Paparazzo wrote: »
    If you think I'm trolling report my posts.
    Rebel songs = anti British
    Celtic = British

    Rebel songs != anti British
    Rebel songs == anti-British-imperialism

    Your logic fails. Have you not read any of the posts that were uploaded since earlier today? You will see that republicanism does not equal anti-Britain.

    You didn't answer my question on how big you reckon the portion of Celtic's support with Irish-links is?


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    #400
    Ash.J.Williams
    Registered Users Posts: 20,929 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams


    If all the people who sat around singing rebel songs and drinking over the years actually fought in the battles we would never have been conqured in the first place. Every Irish battle i read about seems to involve rhetoric (****e talk) romanticism, and then everyone buggering off and leaving the rest to die outnumbered on the battlefield. We talk/sing a good battle, but tin whistles aren't worth a b*llix in armed combat.


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    #401
    carfiosaoorl
    Registered Users Posts: 594 ✭✭✭carfiosaoorl


    This is another song that I love. Its not a rebel song but I think it sums up the futility of it all.

    Tommy Sands "There were Roses"
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=omPltWNzLcM


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    #402
    ColeTrain
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,681 ✭✭✭ColeTrain


    Paparazzo wrote: »
    You said its not as simplistic as saying they're simply British. When really it is. Do I have to explain the irony of a load of people singing rebel songs while cheering for a team that represents Britain?

    Celtic are a Glasgow club, a Scottish club, a British club and a European club. You seem to have a serious hard on for stating they are British but who has argued that?

    They don't represent Britain in any competition though. If playing in Europe they represent the SFA.

    I don't see how it's ironic at all. Would it be ironic for me to listen to a rebel song while browsing an British website or watching a British TV show. What you're saying is in order to listen to a rebel song then you have to reject everything British :confused:


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    #403
    conor.hogan.2
    Registered Users Posts: 5,246 ✭✭✭conor.hogan.2


    It would help if people used common sense (or preferably knew the history of ireland and scotland) and then would know the link between ireland and scotland, and glasgow recently just within the larger scheme of things.

    Then if they also looked into the history of the actual club they would see the further irish links and if they opened their eyes and looked at the club today they would see the irish links.

    That said I am not a huge fan of football/soccer but I do know history (what I thought was basic history) can use common sense (celtic, change the pronunciation…) and have eyes and ears to see the facts at every celtic game.


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    #404
    Badgermonkey
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,019 ✭✭✭Badgermonkey


    So much of that rebel music is hoary old cabaret guff from buffoons such as the Wolfe Tones.

    I like my Irish music soulful and skillfully crafted.

    Music utterly unique to our own culture -timeless, precious, raucous and delicate all at once.

    Have a dose of Séamus Ennis. :)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLe9etQ0iwQ


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    #405
    Doctor Jimbob
    Registered Users Posts: 7,631 ✭✭✭Doctor Jimbob


    Paparazzo wrote: »
    If you think I'm trolling report my posts.
    Rebel songs = anti British
    Celtic = British

    If you aren't trolling, why don't you come up with a decent argument except 'yeah well....but...celtic are british, so there''

    No one has actually said they aren't British, they've just said they have a strong Irish connection. Your response is still 'Yeah but they're british'. You're trolling. And not doing a very good job of it.

    Edit: Just seen the 'team that represents Britain' bit. If you're not trolling, you should really stop commenting on topics that you're completely clueless on.


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    #406
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,970 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Paparazzo wrote: »
    while cheering for a team that represents Britain?

    You haven't a fcuking clue


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    #407
    stovelid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 27,252 ✭✭✭✭stovelid


    I wouldn't call Celtic British but they're about as Irish as Notre Dame or House Of Pain.


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    #408
    Mike 1972
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,021 ✭✭✭Mike 1972


    Doctor Jimbob wrote: »
    It's quite clear you have an anti-republican agenda.

    No $h1t Sherlock ?


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    #409
    Tiocfaidh Armani
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 1,335 ✭✭✭Tiocfaidh Armani


    Paparazzo wrote: »
    If you think I'm trolling report my posts.
    Rebel songs = anti British
    Celtic = British

    In your black and white world James Connolly would be 100% British yet he's more Irish than your sorry ass.


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    #410
    SisterAnn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 71 ✭✭SisterAnn


    KeithAFC wrote: »
    The Wolfe Tones are awful "musicians". They have no musical ability. And I still can't get over how they murdered The Sash.

    The Wolfe Tones blow hot and cold. Point us to a good version! Great tune. Gets my spirits up and if nobody else is listening I'll hum it to myself! Abe Lincoln's favourite was 'Dixie' and he asked his band to play it on hearing that the war was over.

    I'm pretty apolitical to be honest and couldn't care less if Oliver Cromwell and Bertie Ahern jointly governed the entire islands of Britain and Ireland so long as I'm left to my own little world. I love good folk music however, and though some of the rebel/orange ballads are trite - clearly written in 5 minutes on the back of a beermat, some are majestic compositions and I hope they are forever preserved for posterity. Shame to see them become victims of a new sanitised political correctness a la the photographic archiving of Vladimir Lenin.


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    #411
    ItsAWindUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,325 ✭✭✭ItsAWindUp


    Defiler Of The Coffin wrote: »
    You live on the island of Ireland. That makes you Irish no?

    He lives up North, which as far as I am aware gives him the choice to determine himself whether he is British or Irish


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    #412
    brummytom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,572 ✭✭✭✭brummytom


    Badgermonkey wrote: »
    So much of that rebel music is hoary old cabaret guff from buffoons such as the Wolfe Tones.

    I like my Irish music soulful and skillfully crafted.

    Music utterly unique to our own culture -timeless, precious, raucous and delicate all at once.

    Have a dose of Séamus Ennis. :)

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLe9etQ0iwQ


    Brilliant tune, my favourite at the moment. Strangely enough, I was just listening to another version of it. Played here by 3 brilliant trad musicians from England (see, it's not just for you lot! :pac:):

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UupFW-97nmg



    Rebel songs, to me, are the telling of history. They shouldn't be part of an ideology.

    While trad music was probably oddly helped by the persecution it suffered, it's going stronger than ever now, but I wouldn't associate it with rebel music myself.


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    #413
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,970 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    ItsAWindUp wrote: »
    He lives up North, which as far as I am aware gives him the choice to determine himself whether he is British or Irish

    Ask anyone from Britain and I would say 95% of them would say he is Irish


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    #414
    KeithAFC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,239 ✭✭✭✭KeithAFC


    SisterAnn wrote: »
    The Wolfe Tones blow hot and cold. Point us to a good version! Great tune. Gets my spirits up and if nobody else is listening I'll hum it to myself! Abe Lincoln's favourite was 'Dixie' and he asked his band to play it on hearing that the war was over.

    I'm pretty apolitical to be honest and couldn't care less if Oliver Cromwell and Bertie Ahern jointly governed the entire islands of Britain and Ireland so long as I'm left to my own little world. I love good folk music however, and though some of the rebel/orange ballads are trite - clearly written in 5 minutes on the back of a beermat, some are majestic compositions and I hope they are forever preserved for posterity. Shame to see them become victims of a new sanitised political correctness a la the photographic archiving of Vladimir Lenin.

    A good version.


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    #415
    ItsAWindUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,325 ✭✭✭ItsAWindUp


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    Ask anyone from Britain and I would say 95% of them would say he is Irish

    Ask anyone from Britain?:confused: You are aware this is an Irish website? I fail to see the relevance of asking anybody from Britain what their thoughts are on the matter, or perhaps you realise that your argument has failed, and you cannot produce a decent retort?


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    #416
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,970 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    ItsAWindUp wrote: »
    Ask anyone from Britain?:confused: You are aware this is an Irish website? I fail to see the relevance of asking anybody from Britain what their thoughts are on the matter, or perhaps you realise that your argument has failed, and you cannot produce a decent retort?

    A simple statement that the vast majority of people from Britain regard someone from Ireland as Irish irrespective if they are in NI or not. He is an Irishman in the United Kingdom.


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    #417
    AEDIC
    Registered Users Posts: 444 ✭✭AEDIC


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    A simple statement that the vast majority of people from Britain regard someone from Ireland as Irish irrespective if they are in NI or not. He is an Irishman in the United Kingdom.

    Can you supply a link to the research that backs this up? Or is it as I suspect an opinion based on...well nothing really..


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    #418
    getz
    Registered Users Posts: 5,255 ✭✭✭getz


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    A simple statement that the vast majority of people from Britain regard someone from Ireland as Irish irrespective if they are in NI or not. He is an Irishman in the United Kingdom.
    so are you mate so are you


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    #419
    ItsAWindUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,325 ✭✭✭ItsAWindUp


    A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »
    A simple statement that the vast majority of people from Britain regard someone from Ireland as Irish irrespective if they are in NI or not. He is an Irishman in the United Kingdom.

    Again, you are missing the point. As someone who lives in Northern Ireland, Keith has the right to identify himself as British or Irish, or both. This right was given to him under the Good Friday Agreement, and nobody but him and him alone can determine his nationality


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    #420
    ItsAWindUp
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,325 ✭✭✭ItsAWindUp


    AEDIC wrote: »
    Can you supply a link to the research that backs this up? Or is it as I suspect an opinion based on...well nothing really..

    Bingo


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    #421
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 16,970 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    AEDIC wrote: »
    Can you supply a link to the research that backs this up? Or is it as I suspect an opinion based on...well nothing really..

    I am not claiming it as fact, I am claiming as my opinion if you had read the post above

    'Ask anyone from Britain and I would say 95% of them would say he is Irish'

    That opinion is based on living in Britain for more than 18 years


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