Irish rebel music

Nodin

BeefyS wrote: »

you dont like complicated things do you.
a message of hate can be constructed many ways. for example, implying an us against them mentality where we are standing up for whats true and right and those against us are bad and wrong. it can be done by implying a victory then over those negative forces "look how much better then we are", people then come away with a message of importance due to this victory... and we all know that we want to feel important now dont we

..............

So we shouldn't sing about being or aspiring to be an independent nation because somebody might read that as a "message of hate"?

BeefyS

Nodin wrote: »

So we shouldn't sing about being or aspiring to be an independent nation because somebody might read that as a "message of hate"?

yup. you really dont

Mardy Bum

Nodin wrote: »

Here's "A nation once again". You can quote the part thats a "message of hate" and we can discuss it.

http://celtic-lyrics.com/lyrics/?id=9

Some (W.B Yeats, Lady Gregory and Co.) would say most of Davis's work is facile propagandist verse popularised by the Young Irelanders. I would be inclined to agree with them.

The only rebel song of note by the early forefathers is James Clarence Mangan's Dark Rosaleen.

Nodin

BeefyS wrote: »

yup. you really dont

No answer...?

A Dub in Glasgo

BeefyS wrote: »

you dont like complicated things do you.
a message of hate can be constructed many ways. for example, implying an us against them mentality where we are standing up for whats true and right and those against us are bad and wrong.

So your posts are messages of hate then?

Mardy Bum

Nodin wrote: »

So we shouldn't sing about being or aspiring to be an independent nation because somebody might read that as a "message of hate"?

Irish music should aim to promote cultural nationalism if it wants to promote any sort of nationalism.

BeefyS

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

So your posts are messages of hate then?

its contextual innit. i thought that would be obvious

nodin wrote:

No answer...?

you dont get what i mean or dont want to.
"it can be done by implying a victory then over those negative forces "look how much better then we are", people then come away with a message of importance due to this victory..."
it helps to galvanise hatred against a "common" enemy from those times. celebrating our victory over them, which can be used as a message of hatred. i really fail to see how you cant or wont get this.. well i can see how you wont want to get it, heck isnt that what we are kinda talking about, importance and all that jazz

Nodin

Mardy Bum wrote: »

Irish music should aim to promote cultural nationalism if it wants to promote any sort of nationalism.

Personally I don't see why it should nessecarily promote anything, as a rule. This is about a certain sub-genre that concerns itself with political matters past (and some recent), many of the songs being written a very long time ago.

Nodin

BeefyS wrote: »

you dont get what i mean or dont want to.
"it can be done by implying a victory then over those negative forces "look how much better then we are", people then come away with a message of importance due to this victory..."
it helps to galvanise hatred against a "common" enemy from those times. celebrating our victory over them, which can be used as a message of hatred. i really fail to see how you cant or wont get this.. well i can see how you wont want to get it, heck isnt that what we are kinda talking about, importance and all that jazz

So essentially, you've read into it what you want to, and have thus chosen to stereotype the genre and all associated with it. Lovely.

BeefyS

Nodin wrote: »

So essentially, you've read into it what you want to, and have thus chosen to stereotype the genre and all associated with it. Lovely.

and now who cant answer?
point proven

Nodin

BeefyS wrote: »

and now who cant answer?
point proven

Answer what? Your pseudo-intellectual musings about a genre you seem to know little or nothing about? If there was a question in there, I think I might need a bigger dung-shovel to find it.

A Dub in Glasgo

BeefyS wrote: »

its contextual innit. i thought that would be obvious

Oh dearie me...

Mardy Bum

Nodin wrote: »

Personally I don't see why it should nessecarily promote anything, as a rule. This is about a certain sub-genre that concerns itself with political matters past (and some recent), many of the songs being written a very long time ago.

Obviously I don't mean all music should promote cultural nationalism but by my stating of Irish music by definition implies it has a national characteristic in it. Some bands like the Coronas being a pop band (i.e universal appeal) would not be considered in the same way as the Dubliners for instance. I know very well of the sub genre and some of the criticism this genre gets is valid as it is nothing more than propagandist bull****.
If somebody is going to class a type of music as excellent it has to be achieving more than some political broadcast, it has to be nearing some sort of artistic form instead of infantile ravings.

BeefyS

Nodin wrote: »

Answer what? Your pseudo-intellectual musings about a genre you seem to know little or nothing about? If there was a question in there, I think I might need a bigger dung-shovel to find it.

i didnt ask i question. i made a point, a point you cant find an answer to.
thing is, im not pretending its pseudo-intellectual whatever, its just a very basic answer is to why people in 2011 are still pro-IRA / anti-britain, support the EDL, support the westboro baptist church etc. people want to be more important then they actually are so they latch onto a cause like this. the rebel songs are just an extension of this mentality and are often used as messages of hate (which i have explained very clearly to you). im sorry if it trivialises what you think is important or whatever but thats not my problem if you get angry about it

BeefyS

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Oh dearie me...

?
oh dearie me what? was i too clear for you or something?
its contextual in that the context of what the song is and stands for can be used as a message of hate. you have taken one bit of what i said that was meant to be taken in the context of the message of certain songs and tried to turn it back around against the points i made.

saying "oh dearie me" in this patrionising pedantic tone wont help deflect what ive written or what you read

A Dub in Glasgo

Oh dearie me for you using a generic argument to state that Irish rebel songs spread messages of hate and it is obvious that any discord / discussion / song / poetry etc can be classed as 'messages of hate' using your generic argument.

And dearie me for your patronising tone, lack of capital letters and the use of 'innit'.

So dearie me indeed.

Nodin

BeefyS wrote: »

i didnt ask i question. i made a point, a point you cant find an answer to.
thing is, im not pretending its pseudo-intellectual whatever, its just a very basic answer is to why people in 2011 are still pro-IRA / anti-britain, support the EDL, support the westboro baptist church etc. people want to be more important then they actually are so they latch onto a cause like this. the rebel songs are just an extension of this mentality and are often used as messages of hate (which i have explained very clearly to you). im sorry if it trivialises what you think is important or whatever but thats not my problem if you get angry about it

...and I just brought up a song that was written before the IRA was founded and you couldn't address that. Hence "pseudo intellectual".

Whats "anti-britain" when its at home.

Johnny Foreigner

This thread seems to have drifted off topic.
I am going to bring it back on topic.
Here is a song my Aunt had booming out of her Sanyo HiFi when I was a child:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PE8rsDLHb98

Johnny Foreigner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucigkLLqnG4

Irish Guitarist

Just because the messages in the songs might not be relevant anymore doesn't mean they have no value. It's as important a form of music as early blues is. It's a type of folk music and as far as I'm concerned is historically important as well as being enjoyable to listen to.

If you actually listen to the lyrics of the songs it's pretty obvious that they're from a time when Irish people were fighting to be free from British rule and that they have nothing to do with the latter day IRA that went around kneecapping drug dealers and planting bombs in busy streets to kill civilians.

What I don't understand is why it's thought of as cool to listen to music that celebrates black power (for instance Gil Scott Heron), that addresses the struggle of people in third world countries (Bob Marley) or that simply talk about violence (most rap music) but it's almost taboo to listen to songs written about Irish peoples struggle for independence.

This is a good CD. Judy Collins also did a great version of Rising Of The Moon.

ColeTrain

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeT4tUcnEbE

Not a rebel song but appropriate for the night that's in it

Hail Hail

BeefyS

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Oh dearie me for you using a generic argument to state that Irish rebel songs spread messages of hate and it is obvious that any discord / discussion / song / poetry etc can be classed as 'messages of hate' using your generic argument.

And dearie me for your patronising tone, lack of capital letters and the use of 'innit'.

So dearie me indeed.

so you are using an overly simple black and white point on an arguement that is contextual? oh dearie me
oh noes. not using capital letters on the internet and then saying 'innit' to add a bit of light heartedness, now this is a problem.
patrionising tone? because the black and white points you are making dont actually mean much in something thats a bit more complicated? sorry, i didnt mean to talk about such complicated things. (now thats patrionising)
if you dont want to hear anything bad said about previous rebel music then maybe dont post in a thread about it. its obvious how they can spread messages of hate but you and those around you dont seem to want to know.

nodin wrote:

...and I just brought up a song that was written before the IRA was founded and you couldn't address that. Hence "pseudo intellectual".

Whats "anti-britain" when its at home.

i did address that here, so hence nothing.

anti-britain = basic dislike/hate for brits/britain for reasons that are in our past. backwards, spiteful thinking that has no place in our world tomorrow.
on the back of our focused anger and spite towards britain we kept voting in people that robbed our country blind. distracted to who was really f**king us but however.
ive seen it soooo many times. people that actively hate britain, hate british people, love the ra etc. and use it to make themselves feel important and that they "know" something. theres a terrible undercurrent to it in our society (especially with scumbags) and there is so many other things we should be focusing on. but no, we have a chip on our shoulder and by god if its a big un

lecker Hendl

I wouldn't sing rebel music on a night out. However I am prone to breaking out a few lines Spancil Hill or Slievenamon. great oul tunes in fairness. There's some good rebel ones too. Some people take them too seriously though. Sure they have no harm singing the anthem where we're killing the english in that too.

R P McMurphy

BeefyS wrote: »

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Oh dearie me for you using a generic argument to state that Irish rebel songs spread messages of hate and it is obvious that any discord / discussion / song / poetry etc can be classed as 'messages of hate' using your generic argument.

And dearie me for your patronising tone, lack of capital letters and the use of 'innit'.

So dearie me indeed.

so you are using an overly simple black and white point on an arguement that is contextual? oh dearie me
oh noes. not using capital letters on the internet and then saying 'innit' to add a bit of light heartedness, now this is a problem.
patrionising tone? because the black and white points you are making dont actually mean much in something thats a bit more complicated? sorry, i didnt mean to talk about such complicated things. (now thats patrionising)
if you dont want to hear anything bad said about previous rebel music then maybe dont post in a thread about it. its obvious how they can spread messages of hate but you and those around you dont seem to want to know.

nodin wrote:

...and I just brought up a song that was written before the IRA was founded and you couldn't address that. Hence "pseudo intellectual".

Whats "anti-britain" when its at home.

i did address that here, so hence nothing.

anti-britain = basic dislike/hate for brits/britain for reasons that are in our past. backwards, spiteful thinking that has no place in our world tomorrow.
on the back of our focused anger and spite towards britain we kept voting in people that robbed our country blind. distracted to who was really f**king us but however.
ive seen it soooo many times. people that actively hate britain, hate british people, love the ra etc. and use it to make themselves feel important and that they "know" something. theres a terrible undercurrent to it in society (especially with scumbags) and there is so many other things we should be focusing on. but no, we have a chip on our shoulder and by god if its a big un

The basis of your point here is that fianna fail is an anti-British party. Can you provide one shred of evidence to back this up. Could you link to anything that would indicate any Irish politician leaders in the last 50 years voicing anti-British sentiments. Your posts are meaningless and completely incorrect.

The damage done to the economy has been done through light touch regulation, overseen by FF with money supplied to Irish banks primarily from financial institutions based in london. People voted ff in because they were getting something in return which was a low direct tax economy not due to republican beliefs.

suicide_circus

tonycascarino wrote: »

Yes, I listen to rebel music now and again. Much rather it than Jedward, Justin Beiber or whatever it is that is passed off as music today.

luckily my options are not limited to rebel trad sh¡te or justine bieber

Johnny Foreigner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kaO4XeHhwo8

Johnny Foreigner

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVp7lkH10Gc

CillDaraAbu10

ha ha

CillDaraAbu10

ColeTrain wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CeT4tUcnEbE

Not a rebel song but appropriate for the night that's in it

Hail Hail

Great Video

Nodin

BeefyS wrote: »

.................
anti-britain = basic dislike/hate for brits/britain for reasons that are in our past. backwards, spiteful thinking that has no place in our world tomorrow.
on the back of our focused anger and spite towards britain we kept voting in people that robbed our country blind. distracted to who was really f**king us but however.
ive seen it soooo many times. people that actively hate britain, hate british people, love the ra etc. and use it to make themselves feel important and that they "know" something. theres a terrible undercurrent to it in our society (especially with scumbags) and there is so many other things we should be focusing on. but no, we have a chip on our shoulder and by god if its a big un

There's a chip on somebodys shoulder, certainly.