MP Sacked After Nazi Party Photo

purplepanda

So why a few decades ago was it considered funny for Mel Brooks to dress up as a Nazi, Freddy Starr, John Cleese, and many others acting up as Nazi's in front of millions on TV, also many of the audience would have lived through the war?? :rolleyes:

The Nazi leaders were figures of fun in Allied propaganda & this parody carried on afterwards

So what has changed, were the previous generation of media & their audience racist? Or has a whole industry emerged which has decided to become offended on behalf of the general public?

Don't tell me the people who found this all funny at the time, including us kids were all racists & we need to be "reprogramed" :rolleyes:

You can start with all the older generation of my family born in the '40's good luck with that!!!!!

dr.bollocko

I get what he allowed himself to be associated with was dumb but I don't understand the motivation for firing the guy tbh.

280special

goose2005 wrote: »

Seems like everyone who fought in ww2 claims to have liberated a camp; it's like being in the GPO in 1916.

Bit of a foolish generalisation to make dont you think ? do you know who i have been talking to? Do you know how many vets I have talked to ?

No you dont....the vets I have met and talked to were there, saw the horror of it all, and have talked about it with great emotion, mostly as the result of some dumbass shooting his mouth off about there not being a holocaust, the SS not being as bad as they were portrayed etc.

Aside from those who had direct experience of the camps, many expressed how they hate the SS and all they stood for, they had a certain grudging respect for the Afrika Korp or the Fallschirmjager but the SS are regarded as "worse than animals" to quote one British veteran of the war in Italy.

I feel honoured to have met and talked to them.

280special

ballsymchugh wrote: »

the chances of any of us bumping into a survivor are slim to none.

Wrong. Still a few of them in Ireland, well at least the known ones anyway.

http://www.hetireland.org/index.php?page=survivor_testimony

and there are plenty more out there who dont talk about it.

Would you really want to offend someone who had gone through that, or someone who had lost family members, or a veteran who had seen the horrors of the camps ?

ballsymchugh

280special wrote: »

Wrong. Still a few of them in Ireland, well at least the known ones anyway.

http://www.hetireland.org/index.php?page=survivor_testimony

and there are plenty more out there who dont talk about it.

Would you really want to offend someone who had gone through that, or someone who had lost family members, or a veteran who had seen the horrors of the camps ?

and still, the chances of me bumping in to one of them is slim to none. you should read the holocaust industry, about how groups mainly in the US got millions of dollars in compensation from various european governments, particularly the swiss and how sweet feck all of that trickled down to the survivors of the camps, some of whom are living in trailer parks in florida.

280special

purplepanda wrote: »

So why a few decades ago was it considered funny for Mel Brooks to dress up as a Nazi, Freddy Starr, John Cleese, and many others acting up as Nazi's in front of millions on TV, also many of the audience would have lived through the war?? :rolleyes:

The Nazi leaders were figures of fun in Allied propaganda & this parody carried on afterwards

!

The examples you have quoted were clearly send ups, designed to make a laugh of the regime, to ridicule and poke fun, it couldnt even be considered as in any way supportive.

The problem is that there are people out there who take the whole imitation thing a lot further, they support what the Nazi's did, they respect for instance the "fighting spirit" of the SS while ignoring the fact that this "fighting spirit" led to the slaughter of innocents, the murder of unarmed POWs, torture, mass rapes etc. Havent you seen or heard of "Weekend Nazis" ? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007y5v0

These are plenty of others out there who dont go the full hog with re-enactment but like the idea of wearing a Nazi uniform !

280special

ballsymchugh wrote: »

and still, the chances of me bumping in to one of them is slim to none. you should read the holocaust industry, about how groups mainly in the US got millions of dollars in compensation from various european governments, particularly the swiss and how sweet feck all of that trickled down to the survivors of the camps, some of whom are living in trailer parks in florida.

Read the points made by myself and others please. The survivors are here, there are relatives here, there are plenty of vets out there who, as it is, were treated shamefully in this country when they came home. How do you think they would feel to see some fool struting around pretending to be a Nazi ? I can tell you , they dont like it !

And what has allegations about survivors being ripped off got to do with the subject matter? Are you trying to sell books ?

280special

Ellis Dee wrote: »

It was reported in the Daily Hatemail that it was Burley who had in fact rented the costume and paid for it.

Remember, there are still a few Brits alive who fought against the Germans and it must grate on them to see one of their MPs toasting Hitler.:eek:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2075984/David-Cameron-sacks-MP-Aidan-Burley-links-Hitler-stag-party.html

"Aidan Burley, 32, was caught on camera dining with friends, some of whom were chanting: ‘Hitler, Hitler, Hitler.’ He was jokingly described as the ‘candidate for Berlin East’ and toasts were made to the Third Reich."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2075984/David-Cameron-sacks-MP-Aidan-Burley-links-Hitler-stag-party.html#ixzz1gxpKclKN

"

Well if people dont understand after reading this why this fool had to resign then maybe they need to do a bit more reading of their history books !

Disgusting behaviour, not fit for office, not fit for normal society in my opinion ! :mad:

ballsymchugh

280special wrote: »

The examples you have quoted were clearly send ups, designed to make a laugh of the regime, to ridicule and poke fun, it couldnt even be considered as in any way supportive.

The problem is that there are people out there who take the whole imitation thing a lot further, they support what the Nazi's did, they respect for instance the "fighting spirit" of the SS while ignoring the fact that this "fighting spirit" led to the slaughter of innocents, the murder of unarmed POWs, torture, mass rapes etc. Havent you seen or heard of "Weekend Nazis" ? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007y5v0

These are plenty of others out there who dont go the full hog with re-enactment but like the idea of wearing a Nazi uniform !

so what do you think this mp's buddy was doing? do you think he should have been sacked from his post because of it??

ballsymchugh

280special wrote: »

Read the points made by myself and others please. The survivors are here, there are relatives here, there are plenty of vets out there who, as it is, were treated shamefully in this country when they came home. How do you think they would feel to see some fool struting around pretending to be a Nazi ? I can tell you , they dont like it !

And what has allegations about survivors being ripped off got to do with the subject matter? Are you trying to sell books ?

the book did a good breakdown on the likely amount of survivors that are still alive, the ones that, according to you, we should be bumping into.

wilkie2006

WindSock wrote: »

The chap was at a stag party where his mates were dressed as Nazi's and now he is to step down. Will there ever be a time when people choose not to be offended anymore over the whole nazi thing, or is it still 'too soon'? Seems to be....and of course the man is obviously a racist and an anti semite like young Prince Harry.

Mmm, really? I kinda think it was a pretty serious error in judgement for an MP. After all, Burley's supposed to be a representative of the country; he's not just some guy who works in a pub. I appreciate there are some parallels to Prince Harry's larks but Burley's a 30-odd year old man, while Harry was a kid. I don't think it makes him racist though... just a bit stupid.

Anyway, imagine if it emerged there were photos of Enda Kenny at a stag party dressed up as Oliver Cromwell. The country would go nuts!

AeoNGriM

Dudess wrote: »

Which aspects do you feel are worthy of being funny?

Ah Dudess, wouldn't be a proper AH thread without you showing up and sucking all the humour out of it.

Dudess

I just asked a question out of interest. The rest of my posts try to look at the topic from both sides. People like you and fedor.2 and others are such tough internet warriors going in and making snide jibes without bothering to do a bit of research.

Must suck to be so angry...

280special

ballsymchugh wrote: »

the book did a good breakdown on the likely amount of survivors that are still alive, the ones that, according to you, we should be bumping into.

You dont need a book to do that, all you need to do is check the archives of RTE for the last few years, do a google search, talk to a few older people who would know who went to fight in WW2... But then dont do the latter, after all THEY lived with the possibility of being deported to concentration/extermination camps when the Nazi's invaded here, they lived with the possibility of their loved ones who had gone to fight being rounded up, put against a wall and shot...they might not understand why you think its okay to imitate the Nazi's.


But then your book wont show where there are relatives of those who were murdered in the camps or of those who survived and it wont show those who are effected by the persecution of those of the same religion or ethnicity , or will it?

280special

ballsymchugh wrote: »

so what do you think this mp's buddy was doing? do you think he should have been sacked from his post because of it??

Once again will you please read at least some of the posts before answering? okay will make it easy for you post 83, post 91, post 98, and perhaps most especially post 105 to quote just a few....

"Aidan Burley, 32, was caught on camera dining with friends, some of whom were chanting: ‘Hitler, Hitler, Hitler.’ He was jokingly described as the ‘candidate for Berlin East’ and toasts were made to the Third Reich."

If he was fit to hold public office, and to most "normal" people he isnt, he should have disassociated himself immediately, left the party & refused to have anything to do with the people who were involved. He may have viewed all of it as jolly good fun but there are billions out there who wouldnt.

280special

Dudess wrote: »

Yes he is. Stop talking sh1te. And the "reason" at the end is in your head. Upset that the commie dictator doesn't get talked about as much? Doesn't mean he's not seen as a dictator and mass murderer on the same scale as Hitler.

Now be nice to our poor misunderstood, put upon and generally oppressed Loyalist (or he is a "moderate" unionist this week ?) friend. After all he has to do something to draw attention away from the links between the loyalist thugs in the north and their neo nazi pals in the likes of Combat 18...

Dudess

Confusing though, seeing as he apparently "welcomes" Israelis to "Ulster".

prinz

purplepanda wrote: »

So what has changed, were the previous generation of media & their audience racist? Or has a whole industry emerged which has decided to become offended on behalf of the general public?

What has changed is that you are referring to seasoned entertainers sending the Nazis up to great effect often times layered in satire and sarcasm with a deliberate purpose to undermine the whole notion of totalitarianism and Nazism through humour.

This comes nowhere near to a stag-party group sitting around a pub table dressed as SS officers, giving the Nazi salute and chanting Hitler. Nevermind the ethical and moral aspects of doing it, they probably broke French law into the bargain where displaying Nazi memorabilia etc is illegal.

Found another article on the case which makes their intentions even clearer..

And another taunted a waiter for being French as the group partied away in the French ski resort of Val Thorens, The Mail On Sunday reported.
The shamed MP was filmed at a restaurant sitting next to the stag dressed in a black SS uniform and cap - he was identified in reports as Oxford graduate and accountant Mark Fournier, 34.
Embarrassed by his association to the incident, Mr Burley, 32, tweeted: "Deeply regret inappropriate behaviour by some guests at stag party I attended and I am extremely sorry for any offence that was caused."
But there were calls for Prime Minister David Cameron to sack the MP from his Government post as Parliamentary Private Secretary to Transport Secretary Justine Greening.
Burley sipped wine as one member of the party poked fun at a French waiter, asking him: "You are from Germany? No, you must be from Austria, then? Are you insulting his Reich?"
The MP was seen raising his glass in Restaurant La Fondue before one man reportedly declared: "Let's raise a toast to Tom for organising the stag do, and if we're perfectly honest, to the ideology and thought process of the Third Reich."
The man in the uniform at one stage revealed why he was dressed as he was, saying: "We wanted to see how a Nazi outfit in the middle of France would go down. The answer is not that well at all."
A second man was heard to say they were "trying to intimidate as many people as possible".

http://www.dailychilli.com/backroom/15587-tory-mp-sorry-over-nazi-bash

ballsymchugh

280special wrote: »

Now be nice to our poor misunderstood, put upon and generally oppressed Loyalist (or he is a "moderate" unionist this week ?) friend. After all he has to do something to draw attention away from the links between the loyalist thugs in the north and their neo nazi pals in the likes of Combat 18...

i gotta laugh at this, and not against you. the whole idiocy of taking sides in the north took a strange turn back in the mid 90s when the republicans were supporting the palestinians.
so by default, the loyalists started displaying israeli flags, which caused a little bit of hassle when combat 18 and the likes came to collect their tickets for the ireland-england game in 1995 at lansdowne.

sensibleken

This thread is really putsching the boundaries of good taste

Dermighty

He obviously couldn't distinguish between reich and wrong...

--Kaiser--

Storm(trooper) in a teacup if you ask me

sensibleken

They should make him mayor of Naas

Sonnenblumen

Most accept that two rights don't make a wrong and doubtless plenty will agree that the Third Reich is wrong.

280special

ballsymchugh wrote: »

i gotta laugh at this, and not against you. the whole idiocy of taking sides in the north took a strange turn back in the mid 90s when the republicans were supporting the palestinians.
so by default, the loyalists started displaying israeli flags, which caused a little bit of hassle when combat 18 and the likes came to collect their tickets for the ireland-england game in 1995 at lansdowne.

Yep, true, but then the loyalists werent/arnt renowned for being the smartest crackpots on the block !

But then stranger things have happened, like the arrest of Isreali neo-nazis....

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/01/04/suspected-israeli-neo-nazi-dimitri-bogotich-arrested-after-extra/

AudreyHepburn

While I am by no means a prude and am all for free speech, to me there is nothing remotely funny about racism, genocide, extermination camps, torture, murder etc.

The fact that so many people here seem to feel there is, is frankly disturbing.

AeoNGriM

Dudess wrote: »

I just asked a question out of interest. The rest of my posts try to look at the topic from both sides. People like you and fedor.2 and others are such tough internet warriors going in and making snide jibes without bothering to do a bit of research.

Must suck to be so angry...

I'm not tough. I'm not an internet warrior.

I'm also not angry.

In fact I'm currently laughing. Out loud too.

After doing 'a bit of research' it appears that these Nazi fellows were naughty fellows, by all accounts. That'll teach me to voice unresearched opinions in the future, I've learned my lesson!

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

While I am by no means a prude and am all for free speech, to me there is nothing remotely funny about racism, genocide, extermination camps, torture, murder etc.



The fact that so many people here seem to feel there is, is frankly disturbing.

No, I just have a sense of humour and I can laugh at jokes about terrible events. Why? Because they're jokes, they're supposed to be funny. Picking and choosing what to laugh at based on how serious the jokes subject matter is makes you a hypocrite. As if you've never laughed at a Paddy Englishman, Paddy Irishman joke before :rolleyes:

wyndham

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

While I am by no means a prude and am all for free speech, to me there is nothing remotely funny about racism, genocide, extermination camps, torture, murder etc.

The fact that so many people here seem to feel there is, is frankly disturbing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xnNhzgcWTk

prinz

AeoNGriM wrote: »

No, I just have a sense of humour and I can laugh at jokes about terrible events. Why? Because they're jokes, they're supposed to be funny. Picking and choosing what to laugh at based on how serious the jokes subject matter is makes you a hypocrite. As if you've never laughed at a Paddy Englishman, Paddy Irishman joke before :rolleyes:

Joking about terrible events in an attempt to cope with them, to entertain, or undermine the people involved is one thing. Breaking the law in an attempt to act like a bunch of cúnts is another. There is a huge difference to what they did, and what others have done (as above). There is nothing funny about insulting waiters, and toasting the "thought process of the Third Reich" like a bunch of halfwitted teenagers. They sound like a bunch of arrogant twats fulfilling their own delusions of power and grandeur.

It is interesting too to note that if you google 'fancy dress Nazi' etc one of the first instances that crops up is a school in Thailand where the students dressed up in Nazi gear for a parade. The British embassy got involved in that case to register their outrage.

sensibleken

AudreyHepburn wrote: »

While I am by no means a prude and am all for free speech, to me there is nothing remotely funny about racism, genocide, extermination camps, torture, murder etc.

The fact that so many people here seem to feel there is, is frankly disturbing.

have you never seen 'Allo 'Allo?