Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

mikom

lividduck wrote: »

So how do you propose that the state levies a tax on individuals who are neither domiciled nor resident here, actually since they dont reside here why shoild they pay tax here?

Same argument could be made for the second/holiday home tax.

lividduck

mikom wrote: »

Same argument could be made for the second/holiday home tax.

Im not sure how, most of the second homes are owned by Irish residents anyway. Im not trying to justify a God awful tax system but I dont see how you can demand taxes from people who dont live here.
Instead of ranting on about "Golden Circles" etc we would be much better looking at the failed tax system that we do have and demanding that it is radically overhauled so that all income is taxed and taxed progressivley.
What is so unreasonable about that?

squod

lividduck wrote: »

So how do you propose that the state levies a tax on individuals who are neither domiciled nor resident here, actually since they dont reside here why shoild they pay tax here?

Ah now, that practice is common enough.

The decision by the UK Government to levy “non-domiciled” individuals an annual fixed sum of £30,000 makes Ireland a very attractive alternative location for high net worth individuals, Alan Murray, a director in the Private Client tax specialist group with accountants and business consultants Mazars says

.

lividduck

squod wrote: »

Ah now, that practice is common enough.

.

I would have thought that 30,000 wouldnt mean much to the likes of Denis O'Brien etc.
On the other hand we dont have anywhere near as many HNW's as the Uk, so it would really only be a PR exercise.
What we need is a system of ensuring that those who live here actually pay tax on all income, a euro is a Euro and all income should be subject to tax regardless of source. There are way too many tax avoidence measures available to those who can afford them.
Why is one type of income subject to USc while others are not.

squod

lividduck wrote: »

On the other hand we dont have anywhere near as many HNW's as the Uk, so it would really only be a PR exercise.

There's a few with the border where it is like. Couple lads I've worked for do it.

There's another issue of money leaving the state. Sent home by foreign workers. Not that I'm begrudging them. But if everyone is to be taxed on everything across the board.........

lividduck

squod wrote: »

There's a few with the border where it is like. Couple lads I've worked for do it.

There's another issue of money leaving the state. Sent home by foreign workers. Not that I'm begrudging them. But if everyone is to be taxed on everything across the board.........

Well if they have paid tax on it let them send it home.
My issue is with those not paying tax and the rest of us getting screwed

donalg1

squod wrote: »

donalg1 wrote: »

Can't see a wealth tax working its basically telling people become successful and we'll fcuk you over so your better off leaving the country and paying your taxes elsewhere

Yeah fuhk off back to France and pay a wealth tax and an equitable council tax for services you actually receive.......:rolleyes:


Trollololol

??

The Quadratic Equation

lividduck wrote: »

As i said that post is factually incorrect.

It is completely factual if you include those Irish tax exiles trying to dodge paying any Irish taxes.
Perhaps we should all pretend to live somewhere else as well ?

lividduck

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

It is completely factual if you include those Irish tax exiles trying to dodge paying any Irish taxes.
Perhaps we should all pretend to live somewhere else as well ?

It is factually incorrect if you remove those individuals who merely hold Irish Passports, such as Galen Weston or Pallonji Mistry who do not reside here.
I notice that you have no problem with huge multi-nationals transferring their profits here for tax purposes (Which benifits our tax take hugely) But you complain when Irish people living abroad choose, as is thier right not to be tax domiciled here.
Of the Richest people living here, they appear to be doing so legally, it is the tax code which needs changing.

The Quadratic Equation

lividduck wrote: »

My issue is with those not paying tax and the rest of us getting screwed

Yet you choose to defend and ignore the Irish billionaires that pay little or no taxes. lol

lividduck

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Yet you choose to defend and ignore the Irish billionaires that pay little or no taxes. lol

No..I attack the system that allows them to.

The Quadratic Equation

lividduck wrote: »

No..I attack the system that allows them to.

They control the system for their own benefit, to the complete detrement of the ordinary citizen, that's the point.

Ireland is a plutocracy, where we pay the Golden circle's private speculation debts for them, while they enjoy their profits.

They are free to act however they like, with total and utter impunity, at our expense.

Hijpo

lividduck wrote: »

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Yet you choose to defend and ignore the Irish billionaires that pay little or no taxes. lol

No..I attack the system that allows them to.

the boys in power arnt going to change the tax system to get there wealthy buddys to pay tax. As i said before the tax system is generating enough for them, while avoiding them. If they close the loopholes it puts the TDs and ministers in the ****e and that doesnt suit them. I think we pay enough for the mediocre "services" they provide us. The problem is the social fraudsters in the public the rich aswell as the "poor", the government officials living the undeserved high life through tax breaks, huge salarys and pensions. The whole country needs reform not just the tax system.

dxhound2005

Hijpo wrote: »

the boys in power arnt going to change the tax system to get there wealthy buddys to pay tax. As i said before the tax system is generating enough for them, while avoiding them. If they close the loopholes it puts the TDs and ministers in the ****e and that doesnt suit them. I think we pay enough for the mediocre "services" they provide us. The problem is the social fraudsters in the public the rich aswell as the "poor", the government officials living the undeserved high life through tax breaks, huge salarys and pensions. The whole country needs reform not just the tax system.

Check out the quarterly Revenue Commissioners defaulters lists.

http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/brother-of-boi-chief-boucher-features-on-tax-defaulter-list-147580.html

P2011

I'm not registering.

dxhound2005

P2011 wrote: »

I'm not registering.

Last time you told us it was because you read something on the internet saying it really isn't the law at all. What is is this time?

phurryphace

Pay Caesar what Caesar is owed.

squod

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Last time you told us it was because you read something on the internet saying it really isn't the law at all. What is is this time?

Closed Account

May have to wait for reply.

dvpower

squod wrote: »

May have to wait for reply.

He's gone off radar.

The Quadratic Equation

phurryphace wrote: »

Pay Caesar what Caesar is owed.

Indeed, but you don't render unto him what is not his.

Cantona's Collars

168,000 homes have registered for the tax,a drop in the ocean.It seems the vast majority aren't going to register and now the government are preparing to send leaflets out to every home to put the frighteners on us.How much will those leaflets cost??:rolleyes: Just another piece of paper for my recycling bin.

mikom

zerks wrote: »

168,000 homes have registered for the tax,a drop in the ocean.It seems the vast majority aren't going to register and now the government are preparing to send leaflets out to every home to put the frighteners on us.How much will those leaflets cost??:rolleyes: Just another piece of paper for my recycling bin.

Less than 10% registered (not all paid) with only 6 or so weeks to go.
Delighted with the Don't register-Don't pay campaign so far.

Am Chile

zerks wrote: »

168,000 homes have registered for the tax,a drop in the ocean.It seems the vast majority aren't going to register and now the government are preparing to send leaflets out to every home to put the frighteners on us.How much will those leaflets cost??:rolleyes: Just another piece of paper for my recycling bin.

Please provide a link for your source regarding the numbers, I read an article today stating its less then five per cent have paid, it was the same two weeks ago less then five per cent.

http://www.joe.ie/news-politics/current-affairs/over-95-havent-registered-for-household-charge-0020991-1

Cantona's Collars

Am Chile wrote: »

Please provide a link for your source regarding the numbers, I read an article today stating its less then five per cent have paid, it was the same two weeks ago less then five per cent.

http://www.joe.ie/news-politics/current-affairs/over-95-havent-registered-for-household-charge-0020991-1

Was on lunchtime news on TodayFM. But as has been shown before,these figures aren't gospel.I've a feeling that 168k is a tad optimistic.

ronkmonster

zerks wrote: »

Was on lunchtime news on TodayFM. But as has been shown before,these figures aren't gospel.I've a feeling that 168k is a tad optimistic.

Newstalk were mentioning just under 100k and that was slightly under 10%

phog

Is this true? Got it in an email and wonder is this an actual opt out from the charge?

How you don’t have to legally pay Household Tax!!- You won’t get a bill because the charge is a Statute. People need to understand this: A Statute is a “legislated rule of society given the force of law by the consent of the governed.”(Blacks Law Dictionary 4th edition). Who are those it governs? Us, the public.

This household charge is a Statute, otherwise known as an Act of Government and only carries the force of law upon you if you consent to it which means that your legally obliged to pay if you consent or in other words go on to householdcharge.ie and register. Your silence and inaction will also give the appearance of consent. If you do not consent, a Statute cannot affect you in any way whatsoever.


The courts know this and the last thing they will do is tell you. In fact they will hide this from you at every opportunity they can. On the other hand, if you tell them, they will accept it because they know it is actually true. According to the above definitions a statutory instrument is a contract. If you register for this “charge” you are consenting to this statute ie: signing the contract. This is why the Government are ASKING the people to register and not just billing them instead.

the groutch

there an element of truth in that email.
if they don't communicate to you in writing that you owe it, then you have no legal obligation to pay it.

dxhound2005

phog wrote: »

Is this true? Got it in an email and wonder is this an actual opt out from the charge?

That e mail has been posted many times before in the thread. Also in the Legal Discussions forum if you want to see the opinion there.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=76845697

There is an existing precedent with the NPPR. People are paying that for the last 3 years (340,000 in 2010) and none of them ever got a bill. I would be very sceptical of any legal advice I read on this forum.

https://www.nppr.ie/default.aspx

mikom

Latest update.

Hi all,

Today the report came out that 94% of People due to register and pay the Household charge have NOT done so.
This represents a huge blow to the Government and is a shot in the arm for all those who believe that they have just had enough Austerity.

It is clear now that there is a huge amount of householders that are prepared to resist the Governments attempt to make them pay for the "luxury "of living in their own home.

We ask all those in the campaign to stay focussed and to spread the word into every City Town and village in this country.
This campaign has cleared struck a cord in Irish society and if people stay united can win a major victory against the Government .

Please see the attached newsletter and pass around as much as possible. It is a reply to the Governments propaganda that these charges are to pay for improved services.
In reality the are clearly to pay for "your local and not so local Bondholder"

Rember the simple message Do Not Register and Do Not Pay !!!!


Pat Waine
Campaign Helpdesk
February update.

Good news.
They would want to brush up on the ould typos though.

Nationwide day of protest on the 25th of February proposed as well.

Ghandee

mikom wrote: »

Latest update.



Good news.
They would want to brush up on the ould typos though.

Scare mongering and lies are not working it seems.

Stick it in your pipe and smoke it Kenny!