Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

dxhound2005

Dubit10 wrote: »

It's none of your business tbh.

Fair enough.

donalg1

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Poor oul Clare Daly must be run off her feet going up and down to Galway and Sligo. Are there no Socialists there to lead the campaign? I hope she is not neglecting her constituents in Dublin.

I am sure she is claiming expenses anyway so will be doing alright out of it!!

mikemac1

Hopefully a trip to the Whest will cheer up her up.

Poor Clare Daily, she never ever smiles

When you become a socialist does it mean you must be miserable all the time

out da lough

If they send me out a bill I might consider paying. But there is never going to be any way that I will meekly go online and register for something on the basis of some guy standing up in Leinster House and saying I must, and that if I don't he will fine me.

Not going to happen Phil. We have fundamental rights that cannot be impinged.

That stuff is what happens in totalitarian dictatorships. You want the money? Send me a bill. Then I might think about paying. But we need to hold back and think about what has happened here: some guy stands up in the dáil and says we all need to register and if we don't then he'll fine us.

That's not how we do things.

out da lough

From a PR perspective the decision to pay the recently appointed Labour Party "Super Junior" minister with responsibility for Housing and Planning, Jan O' Sullivan an extra tax free "allowance" of €17,000 per annum on top of her salary of €130,000 per annum, is a bad idea in the current climate. Especially when her predecessor, Willie Penrose who resigned in November in protest at the budgetary cutbacks, pocketed a cool €30,000 in "severance pay" even though he only held the position for six months. This is a classic example of "do as I say, not as I do."

The old phrase, "the working class can kiss my ass, I got the bosses job at last" springs to mind when contrasting the above figures with the austerity measures being inflicted on us.

Snazzy_Chazzy

Is there an Anti househould charge facebook group set up yet does anyone know? I looked on FB couldnt find one.
FB brought back spice burgers, dont see why it cant stop this extortion racket

Annasopra

the statute nonsense is bloody rubbish

constitutionus

i will in me bollocks.

Gershom

Charges on our compact three-bed detached house in an average city in England are:

Property (Council) Tax: £1,500 a year.
Water charge: £550 a year.

That's about €2,400 a year!

genie

Snazzy_Chazzy wrote: »

Is there an Anti househould charge facebook group set up yet does anyone know? I looked on FB couldnt find one.
FB brought back spice burgers, dont see why it cant stop this extortion racket

https://www.facebook.com/NoHouseholdTax

Am Chile

Snazzy_Chazzy wrote: »

Is there an Anti househould charge facebook group set up yet does anyone know? I looked on FB couldnt find one.
FB brought back spice burgers, dont see why it cant stop this extortion racket

There,s quite a few here you go.

http://www.facebook.com/#!/NoHouseholdTax

http://www.facebook.com/#!/groups/222320117812975/

SafeSurfer

Gershom wrote: »

Charges on our compact three-bed detached house in an average city in England are:

Property (Council) Tax: £1,500 a year.
Water charge: £550 a year.

That's about €2,400 a year!

The council tax is an allowable tax deduction for landlords in England, where a property is vacant, as tenants are liable for it normally.

Property taxes in other jurisdictions are also allowable against tax in the case of investors and landlords.

In Ireland the NPPR and household charge is not an allowable expense for landlords so must be paid from after tax income where the marginal tax rate is now 51%.

Effectively what this means is that the true cost of the charges to landlords is close to 600 euro per property. 50 euro extra a month at a time of falling rents and house prices.

This is double taxation pure and simple.

steddyeddy

dxhound2005 wrote: »

tayto lover wrote: »

Austerity is obviously for the ordinary working man.
Two F.G. Junior Ministers were each awarded 17 thousand euros of a rise today.
Now there is austerity for you from our F.G. masters.

What we need to attract the right people to stand for election is higher salaries. The likes of the big bosses at Paddy Powers who can make ordinary working men part with enormous amounts of money on a futile exercise are the ones we need to run the country. But they cream off 5 or 7 times as much as the Taoiseach so no good offering them 200K, they would laugh at us.

Sorry but thats bs we need people attracted to jobs because they have a passion for public service. In no way do we need more people in government attracted there because of the ridiculous pay.

There are people researching cures for cancer for less than some of these advisors are on. At one stage the bertie was on more money than the american president. High salaries does not = intelligent people.

Slick50

K-9 wrote: »

The ability to pay part is a huge problem. I can't see how people on welfare can be expected to pay this, that opens the whole, I'm on minimum wage debate................

So you're going to effectively approve of this amoral, unjust and unfair tax by complying with it?

K-9 wrote: »

Why it's neccesary to attach a charge? Not a new thing. Debts are attached to property as a matter of routine, moreso these days.

The only reason this is being levied against the family home is to try to intimidate people into paying it.

Debts are not attached to a property as a matter of routine, they require a court order. So will any debts accrued by not paying this tax.

K-9 wrote: »

As for equitability? Name me a tax that is.

Taxes are relative to some sort of commercial activity, or purchasing something, which gives them some semblance of equity. You shouldn't incur them by simply being at home, or having a home.

This tax is being levied on people's private property, which has already been taxed at every stage. From the materials to construct it, the paye and prsi paid on wages paid to workers who built it, capital gains on the property it's built on, to stamp duty on the final purchase.

And now they want to levy a further tax on it, enough is enough, or in this case more than enough already.

The only good thing about this tax is, it will give people the opportunity to let the "government" know what they think of them, without having to go out on the streets.

Enda and Co. will be long gone before they get this tax from me.

mikom

Slick50 wrote: »

Enda and Co. will be long gone before they get this tax from me.

And the next election will have the property tax as one of its main battlegrounds...... should it even last that long.

K-9

Slick50 wrote: »

So you're going to effectively approve of this amoral, unjust and unfair tax by complying with it?

There are exceptions there for people on welfare claiming interest relief. People also get mortgage interest relief if they pay a mortgage, regardless of tax paid, even nothing. It isn't perfect but that's tax for you!

The only reason this is being levied against the family home is to try to intimidate people into paying it.

Debts are not attached to a property as a matter of routine, they require a court order. So will any debts accrued by not paying this tax.

Not that up on the actual legislation regarding non payment, I think Revenue can already look for a court order for unpaid income tax etc. Penalties are a pretty normal part of not paying taxes!

Taxes are relative to some sort of commercial activity, or purchasing something, which gives them some semblance of equity. You shouldn't incur them by simply being at home, or having a home.

This tax is being levied on people's private property, which has already been taxed at every stage. From the materials to construct it, the paye and prsi paid on wages paid to workers who built it, capital gains on the property it's built on, to stamp duty on the final purchase.

And now they want to levy a further tax on it, enough is enough, or in this case more than enough already.

The only good thing about this tax is, it will give people the opportunity to let the "government" know what they think of them, without having to go out on the streets.

Enda and Co. will be long gone before they get this tax from me.

Well the same argument goes for cars, buying goods in a shop. You just sound opposed to a property tax full stop which is fine, double taxation is normal here, hope you've never bought a new car!

Pete M.

mikemac1 wrote: »

Hopefully a trip to the Whest will cheer up her up.

Poor Clare Daily, she never ever smiles

When you become a socialist does it mean you must be miserable all the time

Think it did actually

Was chattin away with her after the meeting in Sligo about random stuff and she's bang on.
Thoroughly approachable and down to earth.

Socialism is about making everybody happy

That's why it's called Socialism man comrade :cool:

Mr CJ

This is fantastic! Check it out. Anyone in fear of not registering you must watch this video. This has made me even more determined to help fight against this rubbish!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvPevANo3b0&feature=related

Pete M.

Mr CJ wrote: »

This is fantastic! Check it out. Anyone in fear of not registering you must watch this video. This has made me even more determined to help fight against this rubbish!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvPevANo3b0&feature=related

The policeman is fairly sound, but let us not go down that road please

What we should be trying to achieve is system change, not acceptance and living outside of a system.

Srsly, this campaign will be all about being able to convince ourselves, and others, with the simple, honest arguments that the best thing to do to effect change is not to pay.

Collect that junk mail when it arrives and send it back for a start

Slick50

K-9 wrote: »

....... It isn't perfect but that's tax for you!
................ double taxation is normal here,.....

Both sadly true, but this new tax goes a step beyond that. It is merely fishing for the information they will require to impose greater taxes in the not too distant future.

K-9 wrote: »

Well the same argument goes for cars, buying goods in a shop. You just sound opposed to a property tax full stop which is fine, double taxation is normal here, hope you've never bought a new car!

If you want to use a car analogy, it's like the government deciding that car sales have fallen so far that they are not getting enough tax from VRT. So now they're going to introduce a new tax, called Vehicle Retention Tax, but it's only a hundred €'s.... what's all the fuss about? (shouldn't be giving the knobheads ideas)

I am absolutely opposed to any tax on a private principal residence. I have bought a new car, not recently, but when I did I knew what the costs where beforehand.

dxhound2005

mikom wrote: »

And the next election will have the property tax as one of its main battlegrounds...... should it even last that long.

The next election is due in 2016 by which time I would expect any incoming administration to continue with the existing set up. Like Sinn Fein did in the North. If the Government falls before then on this issue then obviously the new administration couldn't continue with a property tax.

If they wanted to broaden tax revenues they might increase income tax but my preferred option would be a wealth tax. Contrary to what I wrote a few pages back the amount held by private savers in this country is around €120 billion and not €100 billion. I wasn't including about €13 billion in credit unions and other bits and pieces. The advantage of a wealth tax over a property tax is that there could be no "Can't Pay" element although as with other taxes I suppose there would be some "Won't Pay".

donalg1

dxhound2005 wrote: »

mikom wrote: »

And the next election will have the property tax as one of its main battlegrounds...... should it even last that long.

The next election is due in 2016 by which time I would expect any incoming administration to continue with the existing set up. Like Sinn Fein did in the North. If the Government falls before then on this issue then obviously the new administration couldn't continue with a property tax.

If they wanted to broaden tax revenues they might increase income tax but my preferred option would be a wealth tax. Contrary to what I wrote a few pages back the amount held by private savers in this country is around €120 billion and not €100 billion. I wasn't including about €13 billion in credit unions and other bits and pieces. The advantage of a wealth tax over a property tax is that there could be no "Can't Pay" element although as with other taxes I suppose there would be some "Won't Pay".

Can't see a wealth tax working its basically telling people become successful and we'll fcuk you over so your better off leaving the country and paying your taxes elsewhere

mikom

donalg1 wrote: »

Can't see a wealth tax working its basically telling people become successful and we'll fcuk you over so your better off leaving the country and paying your taxes elsewhere

Makes a change from "Save up for a house and we'll fuck you over".

The Quadratic Equation

donalg1 wrote: »

Can't see a wealth tax working its basically telling people become successful and we'll fcuk you over so your better off leaving the country and paying your taxes elsewhere

I am sucessful and wealthy, and I have no objection to a wealth tax, the more you earn the more % tax you should have to pay, yet the golden circle billionaires in this country get away scot free with creative accounting and tax loopholes. Let such parasites fck off to another country and the sooner the better.

The richest 300 people in Ireland alone have a combined wealth of €57 billion, an increase of €6.7 billion in the last year. No recession for the Golden circle.

lividduck

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

I am sucessful and wealthy, and I have no objection to a wealth tax, the more you earn the more % tax you should have to pay, yet the golden circle billionaires in this country get away scot free with creative accounting and tax loopholes. Let such parasites fck off to another country and the sooner the better.

The richest 300 people in Ireland alone have a combined wealth of €57 billion, an increase of €6.7 billion in the last year. No recession for the Golden circle.

That post is substantially incorrect as it refers to Irish Citizens as opposed to those living in Ireland. For instance it would include Galen Weston a Canadian Multi-Billionaire because he has Irish citizenship through marraige.
It would also include the likes of Denis O'Brien, and AJF O'Reilly who are not resident in Ireland and consequently not liable for most if not all Irish taxes.

dxhound2005

donalg1 wrote: »

Can't see a wealth tax working its basically telling people become successful and we'll fcuk you over so your better off leaving the country and paying your taxes elsewhere

I only put the idea forward because it is an alternative suggested by the anti brigade. But like you say it's unlikely to be introduced. It seems that while nearly every country in Europe has property taxes very few have a wealth tax.

http://www.socialistparty.net/economy/597-dont-believe-the-lies-ireland-is-still-rich

The article is a year old but I can't see that the figures would have changed very much.

squod

donalg1 wrote: »

Can't see a wealth tax working its basically telling people become successful and we'll fcuk you over so your better off leaving the country and paying your taxes elsewhere

Yeah fuhk off back to France and pay a wealth tax and an equitable council tax for services you actually receive.......:rolleyes:


Trollololol

The Quadratic Equation

lividduck wrote: »

That post is substantially incorrect as it refers to Irish Citizens as opposed to those living in Ireland. It would also include the likes of Denis O'Brien, and AJF O'Reilly who are not resident in Ireland and consequently not liable for most if not all Irish taxes.

Fully Irish when it suits, and yet 'living' in holiday homes abroad when it suits for tax purposes.
Nice loopholes for the golden circle again. One low tax system for them and a fully taxed system for the rest of us.
They must love the fact that Ireland is a plutocracy, and that their pathetic sycophants are determined to keep it that way for them.

lividduck

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

I am sucessful and wealthy, and I have no objection to a wealth tax, the more you earn the more % tax you should have to pay, yet the golden circle billionaires in this country get away scot free with creative accounting and tax loopholes. Let such parasites fck off to another country and the sooner the better.

The richest 300 people in Ireland alone have a combined wealth of €57 billion, an increase of €6.7 billion in the last year. No recession for the Golden circle.

As i said that post is factually incorrect.

lividduck

The Quadratic Equation wrote: »

Fully Irish when it suits, and yet 'living' in holiday homes abroad when it suits for tax purposes.
Nice loopholes for the golden circle again. One low tax system for them and a fully taxed system for the rest of us.
They must love the fact that Ireland is a plutocracy, and that their pathetic sycophants are determined to keep it that way for them.

So how do you propose that the state levies a tax on individuals who are neither domiciled nor resident here, actually since they dont reside here why shoild they pay tax here?