Are you going to pay the household charge? [Part 1]

pavcro10

I think it's so unfair doing a same charge for everyone. Like whatever it is. Say 20 euro a week is a lot for some people, they would really miss it. But to say, a Denis Desmond or someone, it's nothing

ci985

What has become of this country?? Can people not see that paying this tax will take more money from the country?? What is up with the goverment using scare tactics to force people to pay an unaffordable for tax?? Would this money not be better spent on local business to try and encourage some home industries to create jobs and in turn reduce unemployment and increase the tax take???? At this time of year everyone ought to take a moment and check how much of your gifts and food are irish made!!! Perhaps a little more from ireland would help the irish!!! Instead of letting the goverment squander what little we all have left to go around!!!! If we help each other out perhaps we can regain some confidence in our country again!!! SAY NO TO THIS TAX SPEND YOUR MONEY IN YOUR LOCALITY INSTEAD!!

zenno

so the government are going to take this tax out of your wages or social welfare payments. how can you stop them doing this ? I can't see a way to stop it. but if they do it will cause uproar.

gerryo777

doomed wrote: »

Q1 Are people seriously planning to go to jail for something that costs less than one cigarette a day?

Q2 Did we really elect these people?


Q3 After all the things that have happened to this country are we really making a stand over a very low and long overdue property tax.

In answer to Q3, have you ever heard the expression 'the straw that broke the camel's back'?
The people of this country have taken enough!

daltonmd

zenno wrote: »

so the government are going to take this tax out of your wages or social welfare payments. how can you stop them doing this ? I can't see a way to stop it. but if they do it will cause uproar.

That's what it looks like. I am waiting to see what fines Joe Higgins et all will receive and whether they'll pay it in installments or pay it in full out of their 90k plus salaries....

CricketDude

Everyone will pay it.
It will happen like this

15 TDs try to increase their popularity by saying they wont pay.

Lots of people decide to follow and dont pay.

Revenue chase those 15 TDs only.

The 15 TDs pretend they arent going to pay no matter what happens.

Revenue decide we'll put you 15 in jail.

15 TDs pay. They have achieved nothing. But pretend they are the peoples warriors, even though they knew this exactly how they would end up.

Everyone else pays up.

Toby Take a Bow

CricketDude wrote: »

15 TDs pay. They have achieved nothing. But pretend they are the peoples warriors, even though they knew this exactly how they would end up.

Everyone else pays up.

Some of those TDs have refused to pay similar taxes in the past and have gone to jail for doing so. This was in relation to bin taxes (which were brought in in the end, as far as I recall).

Some of those (same) TDs protested against water charges (in the 90s?) and those charges weren't brought in (at the time).

So, yeah, sometimes protesting achieves its aim, and other times the protesters stick by their principals.

dxhound2005

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

Some of those TDs have refused to pay similar taxes in the past and have gone to jail for doing so. This was in relation to bin taxes (which were brought in in the end, as far as I recall).

Some of those (same) TDs protested against water charges (in the 90s?) and those charges weren't brought in (at the time).

So, yeah, sometimes protesting achieves its aim, and other times the protesters stick by their principals.

The situation has moved on in the last few days. It looks like there will be no way to avoid paying so anyone who can afford to should pay if they like a quiet life. Apart from the fines being deducted from wages people won't be able to sell their houses until the full amount owing (plus fines and interest) is discharged. So I would suggest that any constituent of these TD's should ask them for something in writing about how to cope with these eventualities before following them over the barricades.

Under the Fines Act, the Minister for Justice, Alan Shatter, is to bring in additional measure to allow for small amounts of money to be taken from wages or social welfare to facilitate the payment of fines.

CricketDude

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

Some of those TDs have refused to pay similar taxes in the past and have gone to jail for doing so. This was in relation to bin taxes (which were brought in in the end, as far as I recall).

Some of those (same) TDs protested against water charges (in the 90s?) and those charges weren't brought in (at the time).

So, yeah, sometimes protesting achieves its aim, and other times the protesters stick by their principals.

Well if they were left in jail until they paid, i bet they wouldnt be so gung ho.

Latchy

Time to maybe get the metal detector out and haunt for old viking gold or silver which may be lying undiscoverd .

psychward

dxhound2005 wrote: »

Under the Fines Act, the Minister for Justice, Alan Shatter, is to bring in additional measure to allow for small amounts of money to be taken from wages or social welfare to facilitate the payment of fines.

will people living a subsistence lifestyle on minimum social welfare payments seriously have to pay this charge too ? :eek:

gigino

To solve the problem of the household charge, the least they can do is refuse to increase the pay of those public servants ( pay incrtements ) paid over 80,000 per year. Thats the value of the property tax easily sorted

Toby Take a Bow wrote: »

I presume those increments are built into the Croke Park agreement?

no they are not

dxhound2005

psychward wrote: »

will people living a subsistence lifestyle on minimum social welfare payments seriously have to pay this charge too ? :eek:

There are certain exemptions and waivers.

http://www.moneyguideireland.com/household-charge-property-tax-more-details.html

psychward

dxhound2005 wrote: »

There are certain exemptions and waivers.

http://www.moneyguideireland.com/household-charge-property-tax-more-details.html

On that website it states :

"Co-owners of property shall be jointly and severally liable for the charge, and payment of the charge by any one co-owner shall discharge the liability for all the co-owners"

What does this mean in practice ? For example if you co-own a property with someone who refuses to pay their share of the tax do you remain liable for the full amount outstanding plus fees and interest if you only pay your half of it ?

dxhound2005

psychward wrote: »

On that website it states :

"Co-owners of property shall be jointly and severally liable for the charge, and payment of the charge by any one co-owner shall discharge the liability for all the co-owners"

What does this mean in practice ? For example if you co-own a property with someone who refuses to pay their share of the tax do you remain liable for the full amount outstanding plus fees and interest if you only pay your half of it ?

Have a read through this.

http://www.oireachtas.ie/documents/bills28/bills/2011/7411/b7411s.pdf

i live in the country, up a rural lane, on a road so damaged and destroyed by potholes that a car hardly goes up and down the road for fear of damage. I have lived here 6 years and the council have never once even looked at it - if i pay the property tax will my road get fixed?

i also have a well, why do i have to pay for the water?

i wont own my house for another 24 years either, and if i default on my mortgage my "property" will be owned by the bank as it is a debenture, surely EBS should pay the tax on my behalf?

TD's are spouting off listing the services that will benefit, so im just wondering what my income tax / road tax/ universal social charge pays for?

tigger123

simit wrote: »

I'm only renting but if my lanlord tries to pass the charge on to me, he'll be getting his keys handed back to him.

+1

Freddie59

gigino wrote: »

To solve the problem of the household charge, the least they can do is refuse to increase the pay of those public servants ( pay incrtements ) paid over 80,000 per year. Thats the value of the property tax easily sorted


no they are not

According to Happy Gilmore during the week, the reason he cited for keeping the PS wages increment gravy train on the rails was the Croke Park agreement.

He said that these workers were granted mortgages on the basis of receiving these increments, but might not be able to meet the repayments if they didn't get them. Just another example of the bubble that Happy & Co. live in.:rolleyes:

44leto

Yes I will along with the silent majority who will.

Even though I know this is a tax here to stay and it will eventually be more, a lot more.

But I recognise the gov need more income for public services, so it is either get it this way or more income tax. Either way they get it.

Freddie59

44leto wrote: »

Yes I will along with the silent majority who will.

Even though I know this is a tax here to stay and it will eventually be more, a lot more.

But I recognise the gov need more income for public services, so it is either get it this way or more income tax. Either way they get it.

Surely you mean Public Sector wages?

Zebra3

44leto wrote: »

But I recognise the gov need more income for public services

The government needs more money because it has decided we will foot the bill for private gambling losses. :mad:

Flex

Zebra3 wrote: »

The government needs more money because it has decided we will foot the bill for private gambling losses. :mad:

Do peopl actually believe the above statement, or is it kind of like a trump card they use to avoid having to face facts? Ive seen it repeated alot in this thread.

Basically, the reason for the government raising taxes is because the public deficit is somewhere around €16B a year. Now, the bank bailout was dreadful and all, not disagreeing there, but its not the reason we have a deficit. Not 100% on these figures, so feel free to correct me (Im in a rush as I typ this :P);

By 2015 our projected national debt will be €200B, up from approx ~€40B in 2007. The bailout added approx €50B to this, the other €150B is from government spending on Public Services and Social Welfare, as well as not raising enough revenue through taxes. That €50B bailout is borrowed money, its not comeing out of current expenditure directly. (Rough figures again) lets presume the €50B bailout came with 5% interest, that would mean its costing us €2.5B a year. Our deficit this year is €16B. Even if we never had to bailout the banks the resulting deficit (caused by the collapse of the property bubble, loss of stamp duty and income tax paid by construction workers and rising Social Welfare costs) would still be €13.5B.

If you dont want the government to raise taxes, then start demanding they cut Public Sector pay and Social Welfare benefits (of course the same people on here saying they wont pay more in tax are the usually same people who recoil in disgust when cutting Social Welfare, pensions, etc. is mentioned :rolleyes: ). Constantly saying you wont pay more taxes because of "gamblers debts" or because 'all of its going to French banks' or whatever is a cop-out. Its going towards Public Services and Social Welfare.

squod

Flex wrote: »

Its going towards Public Services and Social Welfare.

That's not the case. If you can show me an improvement in either after the introduction of the tax I'll eat my chocolate hat. The country is fubar because of the massive private debts which are overwhelming our economy.

Also because current government policy is not job creation or investment focused.

Garrfield

Not planning on paying. Dont mind conviction or a few days in jail as its principle.

I do however have my own business and therefore will be seeking advice as to whether non payment will make me non tax compliant as this will seriously affect my business. I am probably not the only one in this position and if it as I suspect then I will be forced to pay to keep working.

starbelgrade

Malignant Paddy wrote: »

I bet those other 17,000 posts are as interesting and original as that one, you could put them together, get yourself a publisher, go to print, and never ever run out of toilet paper.

Good luck with that.

Did you just join Boards so you could whine like a little girl, or did you have any other less constructive purpose in mind?

Freddie59

Flex wrote: »

Do peopl actually believe the above statement, or is it kind of like a trump card they use to avoid having to face facts? Ive seen it repeated alot in this thread.

Basically, the reason for the government raising taxes is because the public deficit is somewhere around €16B a year. Now, the bank bailout was dreadful and all, not disagreeing there, but its not the reason we have a deficit. Not 100% on these figures, so feel free to correct me (Im in a rush as I typ this :P);

By 2015 our projected national debt will be €200B, up from approx ~€40B in 2007. The bailout added approx €50B to this, the other €150B is from government spending on Public Services and Social Welfare, as well as not raising enough revenue through taxes. That €50B bailout is borrowed money, its not comeing out of current expenditure directly. (Rough figures again) lets presume the €50B bailout came with 5% interest, that would mean its costing us €2.5B a year. Our deficit this year is €16B. Even if we never had to bailout the banks the resulting deficit (caused by the collapse of the property bubble, loss of stamp duty and income tax paid by construction workers and rising Social Welfare costs) would still be €13.5B.

If you dont want the government to raise taxes, then start demanding they cut Public Sector pay and Social Welfare benefits (of course the same people on here saying they wont pay more in tax are the usually same people who recoil in disgust when cutting Social Welfare, pensions, etc. is mentioned :rolleyes: ). Constantly saying you wont pay more taxes because of "gamblers debts" or because 'all of its going to French banks' or whatever is a cop-out. Its going towards Public Services and Social Welfare.

Agreed. But not "all of it" is going to service the SW or PS either. While I agree 100% that SW and PS wages need to be drastically cut, this won't happen while Happy Gilmore is in power.

But you cannot - ever - forget what these banks have landed us in, aided and abetted by two Governments. It truly is a gambling debt, with the foreign banks playing the part of a hustler trying to claim his stake back after losing.

It is truly pathetic.

Freddie59

Flex wrote: »

Its going towards Public Services and Social Welfare.

You seem to have omitted that some €280m next year will go towards "honouring" public sector pay increases.:rolleyes: The Irish Government seem to be the only bankrupt entity that has to honour it - and everyone else's - debts.

Frank Black

Malignant Paddy wrote: »

Oh yea, I forgot, I have citizenship there too, so I never have to come back to this toilet seat pretending to be a functioning democracy.

Did you ever notice that Dublin for the most part stinks of stale urine. I don't think theres a wall in the entire city that hasn't been pissed on. In most places I can see the stains. Never noticed that kind of **** when I grew up here, sure as hell notice it now.

I'd rather be a drama queen anyday, than be you, walkin around with my head between my cheeks, smelling vaguely of old farts and Guiness

Enjoy it, you loser

I'll gladly drive you back to the airport.

gigino

Freddie59 wrote: »

You seem to have omitted that some €280m next year will go towards "honouring" public sector pay increases.:rolleyes:

So in other words if 2,800,000 houses each pay 100 euro each....thats equivalent to next years public sector pay increases...thats a lot more houses than are eligible to pay the tax.

At least people can see where their taxes are going;)

jaffacakesyum

I haven't taken part in any discussions on boards.ie about the household charge. I haven't even had time to read any articles in the papers about it, yet I see it on the headlines every day

I honestly am baffled to why people are objecting so much to this. I am certainly not well off but whether it be upper class middle class or even lower class I think everyone can afford to pay €100 euro a year. And if it generates money that contributes to getting us out of this economic mess why wouldn't you?

Here are some suggestions as to how you can afford this:

1. Buy one less pint every fortnight in the pub if you drink
2. Try cut down on your cigarettes if you smoke.
3. Don't buy that pack of digestive biscuits/jaffa cakes/bag of donouts from the bakery in your weekly shopping

etc. etc.

Honestly, I understand that people are so used to being spoilt from their Celtic Tiger days, but people complain so much over nothing. Pay the tax and get over it

No doubt I will be flamed for this but feck it