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Yet, another one sided Apartheid opinion (girls inside)

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    #92
    The Israeli
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    RichieC wrote: »
    No one says the conflict is one sided.. it's only one sided militarily.

    Richie, you can be the hero and come to watch Qassam rockets flying above your head, or RPG, or more advanced anti tank rockets flying at your bus. Or you can be the hero and stop a single terrorist who will stub you and your friends, only because you are the wrong man at the wrong time.


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    #93
    The Israeli
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    wes wrote: »
    Oh please your country is stealing there land on a daily basis, stop pretending that colonization is not a violent process. End the land grab, and the reason for violence on both sides will diminish. There will be nutters, be they Israeli settlers or Hamas types who will still engage in violence, but they will go away over time, as people don't really like taking pointless risks, when they have something to lose.

    Like they have gone away between 48 to 67?
    You are taking a chance for us - the Israelis. It's not for you to take..


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    #94
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    The Israeli wrote: »
    Dudess wrote: »
    OP, do you think men are thick the way you entice them with sexy women images?

    OP, I can understand how an Israeli person would be angered and hurt by the sidelining of Israeli civilians who have suffered due to Palestinian terrorists, but to those outside, the behaviour of the Israeli state is atrocious. Try to remove yourself from your position of bias and look at how the Israeli state (not ordinary Israelis - give the "anti Israeli" bullsh1t allegations a rest will ya?) is going to appear to the rest of the world. Bullies - no two ways about it.

    These vids do their job, and they are contributing. They aren't just images. If you watched it, you know.

    I always put myself on both sides. I often describe the Palestinian pain and suffer, but what can I do that I don't want to deteriorate my countries security..
    We should talk all the time, despite of how impossible peace sounds.
    We should teach soldiers how to treat palestinian citizens in a better way.
    We shouldn't do stupid things like withholding the Palestinian tax money like it was done during this month.

    We should protect our borders and not compromise before terror.
    A future agreament should be final and bring the conflict to an end. Both parties will have to give up on important things to them. Not just one.
    Right now however, I don't think that the people from both sides are ready to end this conflict. Too many palestinians want to destroy Israel, and many of them hold key positions, and there are many Israelis that believe in "the complete" Israel and are ready to suffer for it, though if a permanent and real aggreament will be in sight, they will move.
    Israel also needs to quit its thuggish "one Israeli life = 100 Palestinian lives" approach.


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    #95
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Netanyahu (a real snake) said to the US congress that “Jerusalem Must Never Again Be Divided” effectively saying "peace is off the table". He said it to a rousing applause. in fact, there effectively is no peace process any more as Israels current "situation on the ground" makes it impossible.

    The entire Palestinian territory is criss crossed with with Jewish only highways and a huge big wall and snakes around and chokes any hope of a contiguous Palestinian nation.

    All talk of a peace process is smoke and mirrors while the Israelis expand further and further.

    Your talk of a peace process completely disingenuous.


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    #96
    Siuin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Siuin


    The Israeli wrote: »
    Richie, you can be the hero and come to watch Qassam rockets flying above your head, or RPG, or more advanced anti tank rockets flying at your bus. Or you can be the hero and stop a single terrorist who will stub you and your friends, only because you are the wrong man at the wrong time.

    Oh puh-lease! Says he from his comfortable Tel Aviv apartment :rolleyes:
    Don't try to convince people that you actually suffer, because you don't.
    There are some communities in the south which get infrequent rockets, but the vast majority do no damage. Israeli missiles, on the other hand, tend to reach their targets fairly successfully.


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    #97
    wes
    Registered Users Posts: 11,747 ✭✭✭✭wes


    The Israeli wrote: »
    Like they have gone away between 48 to 67?

    If you want to talk about the past, you will find that Israel doesn't come out looking all that great btw. I am talking about right now, and I see no reason to rehash history, but if you want to go down that road, Israel won't come out looking any better than her neighbors.
    The Israeli wrote: »
    You are taking a chance for us - the Israelis. It's not for you to take..

    Oh please, Israel has nuclear weapons and the the complete support of the US, and huge military advantage over everyone in the region. The Palestinians are an occupied people, who little hope of doing any real damage to Israel. The risk involved on the Israeli side is far less than that of the Palestinians, who have no way to defend themselves from a belligerent Israel.

    It very simple, you either choose the Biblical greater Israel fantasy or peace. Right now Israel has chosen the greater Israel fantasy, and is engaged in a constant violent colonial process, and the Palestinians are very much the ones at risk, and not Israel. What is being done to them, is very similar to what was done to the Native Americans, and as such they are the ones at risk.

    Israel on the other hand, has defacto US support for its colonial project, and would continue to have US, support in the event of any peace deal. Israel would remain militarily superior to any Palestinian state and anyone else in the region, not to mention that any such state would be linked economically to Israel, being such close neighbors. It would go against Palestinian interests to attack Israel, if they had a proper viable state for themselves, and as such the risk to Israel would be minimal. The occupation is the cause of the violence on both sides, in the case of the Palestinians fighting against it, and in the case of Israel enforcing it and engaging in colonial expansion.


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    #98
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    RichieC wrote: »
    Netanyahu (a real snake) said to the US congress that “Jerusalem Must Never Again Be Divided” effectively saying "peace is off the table".

    Let's talk about dividing up this cake while I stuff my face with it and you watch with your hands tied behind your back.

    Netenyahu is one of the most dangerous people in the Middle East imo. Even senior Israeli security people don't trust him when it comes to attacking Iran.

    I think there'll be another blood letting in Lebanon (proxy war between Iran & Israel/US).


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    #99
    The Israeli
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    I'm just too tired to answer. Maybe tomorrow (really), but I couldn't not to notice:

    siuin:
    Oh puh-lease!..

    You forget that I know very well what is like a rocket attack. Though I don't suffer as them, but what is the relevance?
    Also, this rockets to kill a few people a year, and it is an extensive precotions of the trained cevelians.
    New missiles get to Beer Sheva,, Ashdod, Ashkelon and smaller cities and villages.

    wes:
    Oh please..

    are you brothers?

    wes, you are missing a point. Palestinian weapons kill. Period.
    Most of the Israelis don't care about the greater Israel, but they do care about security. Wider border help to keep it better. Once we will know that we can trust them, we will retreat. How do I know that? I live here, talk with people, watch TV, remember how it was in 94 when people were ready do give everything and got suicide bus bombers (you have no idea how terrible it was in those years).


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    #100
    Nodin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 46,938 ✭✭✭✭Nodin


    The Israeli wrote: »
    We should protect our borders and not compromise before terror.
    .......

    Israel would protect them better if it was on its own side of them.


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    #101
    Andy!!
    Site Banned Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Andy!!


    The Israeli wrote: »
    I'm just too tired to answer.

    Oh please...

    More like people are making too much sense here, and you can't give an answer you would like.

    Anyone else remember that plane crash in Denmark in the 90's that the Israelis sweared up and down for 6 months that the plane contained nothing but 'flowers and perfume' until the finally admitted the plane was carrying a chemical component exclusively used to create sarin gas?

    Yeah.

    I'm afraid you're not going to be convincing anyone in this thread Mr.Israeli.

    I think many of us believe that Israel is actually a very very dangerous country, not just for the Muslim countries it opposes, but for the general peace and stability of our world too.


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    #102
    HavingCrack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭HavingCrack


    Why does the US support Israel so much? The main reason I always hear is the 'Jewish lobby' in the US but Jews only make up 2% of the population there or something, hardly a massively important political base.
    RichieC wrote: »
    Did anyone see the videos the Israeli government released warning "good israelis" not to marry American Jews?

    not jewish enough!

    true story, only happened this week.

    They're worried due to the level of emigration from Israel to Europe and the US so they're trying to entice them back to Israel. An awful lot of Israeli's are fed up of the whole situation and see better prospects, both for security and more importantly economically, elsewhere. That and the vast majority of them are entitled to European passports so it's fairly easy for them to get the fcuk out of there.


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    #103
    The Israeli
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    Andy!! wrote: »
    Oh please...

    More like people are making too much sense here, and you can't give an answer you would like.

    Anyone else remember that plane crash in Denmark in the 90's that the Israelis sweared up and down for 6 months that the plane contained nothing but 'flowers and perfume' until the finally admitted the plane was carrying a chemical component exclusively used to create sarin gas?

    Yeah.

    I'm afraid you're not going to be convincing anyone in this thread Mr.Israeli.

    I think many of us believe that Israel is actually a very very dangerous country, not just for the Muslim countries it opposes, but for the general peace and stability of our world too.

    I have barely slept in the last 24 hours.. What do you know about me with that "oh please"?

    Second, it was holand.

    Third, yes, you are right.


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    #104
    The Israeli
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    HavingCrack wrote: »
    Why does the US support Israel so much? The main reason I always hear is the 'Jewish lobby' in the US but Jews only make up 2% of the population there or something, hardly a massively important political base.



    They're worried due to the level of emigration from Israel to Europe and the US so they're trying to entice them back to Israel. An awful lot of Israeli's are fed up of the whole situation and see better prospects, both for security and more importantly economically, elsewhere. That and the vast majority of them are entitled to European passports so it's fairly easy for them to get the fcuk out of there.

    I know something that we don't know..


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    #105
    Siuin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Siuin


    The Israeli wrote: »
    You forget that I know very well what is like a rocket attack. Though I don't suffer as them, but what is the relevance?
    Also, this rockets to kill a few people a year, and it is an extensive precotions of the trained cevelians.
    New missiles get to Beer Sheva,, Ashdod, Ashkelon and smaller cities and villages.

    Gee, yeah, I hear Tel Aviv gets hit by rockets all the time. Really kills the 'Mediterranean cool' ambience :rolleyes:
    You speak as if you're being bombarded by rockets, and yet you live an extremely sheltered life and the only 'nuisance' you experience, or indeed actual contact you would ever have with Palestinians living in these kinds of dire conditions is through your army service. You're not even well versed on Middle Eastern history, which is obvious by your remark regarding the Arabs' behaviour between '46 and '67 when Israelis carried out a horrifying array of disgusting attacks on innocent civilians to try and force them off their land throughout this period-- the Qibya, Qalqilya and Deir Yassin Massacres are only a few of the ones which spring to mind right now.
    A few people each year -- versus how many Palestinians in a matter of days? I'm not condoning Hamas' terrorist attacks, but let's put this in perspective.


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    #106
    Siuin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Siuin


    HavingCrack wrote: »
    They're worried due to the level of emigration from Israel to Europe and the US so they're trying to entice them back to Israel. An awful lot of Israeli's are fed up of the whole situation and see better prospects, both for security and more importantly economically, elsewhere. That and the vast majority of them are entitled to European passports so it's fairly easy for them to get the fcuk out of there.

    Yep, very true. It's becoming pretty apparent: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4157152,00.html


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    #107
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    HavingCrack wrote: »
    Why does the US support Israel so much? The main reason I always hear is the 'Jewish lobby' in the US but Jews only make up 2% of the population there or something, hardly a massively important political base

    regardless of the actual Jewish population of the US, AIPAC is one of the most important and powerful lobby groups in the US. if you want to be president you kiss their ass.


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    #108
    HavingCrack
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,847 ✭✭✭HavingCrack


    Siuin wrote: »
    Yep, very true. It's becoming pretty apparent: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4157152,00.html

    A massive number of Russians are heading back actually, turns out that most of them feel far more Russian than Israeli than they realised.
    RichieC wrote: »
    regardless of the actual Jewish population of the US, AIPAC is one of the most important and powerful lobby groups in the US. if you want to be president you kiss their ass.

    Suprised nobody has called their bluff at this stage.


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    #109
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    HavingCrack wrote: »

    Suprised nobody has called their bluff at this stage.

    It's not a bluff...they can and do ruin careers overnight.


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    #110
    Siuin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Siuin


    HavingCrack wrote: »
    A massive number of Russians are heading back actually, turns out that most of them feel far more Russian than Israeli than they realised.
    Yep. My boyfriend is a Russian born Israeli and he identifies himself first and foremost as Russian. Partly due to the discrimination he faces for not being 'Jewish enough' for them, mind. He can't wait to be rid of the place and his only regret is that he can't take his mom and siblings with him.


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    #111
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,019 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Siuin wrote: »
    Yep, very true. It's becoming pretty apparent: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4157152,00.html
    HavingCrack wrote: »
    A massive number of Russians are heading back actually, turns out that most of them feel far more Russian than Israeli than they realised.

    It seems to me that a dream has turned into a nightmare.


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    #112
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    HavingCrack wrote: »
    Why does the US support Israel so much? The main reason I always hear is the 'Jewish lobby' in the US but Jews only make up 2% of the population there or something, hardly a massively important political base.

    Not a large base but Jews have a lot of wealth. Wealth buys influence. They also have Christian Zionist support and the support of people of a Neocon persuasion (a lot of who would be pro-Israel Jews too).

    Then there's AIPAC who have considerable influence over the Israel/Palestine narrative in the US.

    If you're running for election and you express any opinions on the conflict that don't clone the traditional Israel/US line you will find money and resources being pumped into your rival's campaign.

    A lot of people think that the tail wags the dog but I'd subscribe to Noam Chomsky's view that the relationship is more symbiotic.

    More here if you're interested.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNQv5YSg_YA


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    #113
    The Israeli
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    Siuin wrote: »
    Yep. My boyfriend is a Russian born Israeli and he identifies himself first and foremost as Russian. Partly due to the discrimination he faces for not being 'Jewish enough' for them, mind. He can't wait to be rid of the place and his only regret is that he can't take his mom and siblings with him.

    I happen to know many christian Russians that passed the army with me or worked with me. They are living happily here.

    Godspeed to your bf and to you.

    Also, nobody official asks about your religion when you go to army, college or apply for a job. It's a thing that your pals may ask you, but I can't recall a problem with that. Sounds like the problem is not in the society.
    No body official has ever asked me for me religion, and I happen to be an ex Russian and have some of the Russian look, as you know.


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    #114
    The Israeli
    Registered Users Posts: 413 ✭✭The Israeli


    Siuin wrote: »
    Gee, yeah, I hear Tel Aviv gets hit by rockets all the time. Really kills the 'Mediterranean cool' ambience :rolleyes:
    You speak as if you're being bombarded by rockets, and yet you live an extremely sheltered life and the only 'nuisance' you experience, or indeed actual contact you would ever have with Palestinians living in these kinds of dire conditions is through your army service. You're not even well versed on Middle Eastern history, which is obvious by your remark regarding the Arabs' behaviour between '46 and '67 when Israelis carried out a horrifying array of disgusting attacks on innocent civilians to try and force them off their land throughout this period-- the Qibya, Qalqilya and Deir Yassin Massacres are only a few of the ones which spring to mind right now.
    A few people each year -- versus how many Palestinians in a matter of days? I'm not condoning Hamas' terrorist attacks, but let's put this in perspective.

    <snip>, what springs your mind right now is your new anti Israeli coat..
    What is my personal life has to do with the life of the people that under the missiles range. Should I suffer like them too to have the right to speak for them?
    Your logic is out of the world.
    I don't want any missiles being fired on Israel at any time, anywhere. Too much to ask for?
    "Oh dear... those tinny rockets? they are barely mosquitoes"

    You don't take into account the Fedaiun and some other fellow murderers.
    What for were the arabs fighting back then?
    I can dive in into your examples and explain how was it and not just throw names. But tell me - were they your answer to the arabic anti Israeli actions to the time before 67? Like they had to fight because that they Israelis massacred them?

    So accordingly to you, if we retreat to 67, things will be alright?
    What else should we do?

    How do you explain the raging violence each time Israel goes on peace talks? How should IDF deal with that? (80 missiles a day, suicide bombers..)


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    #115
    Siuin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Siuin


    The Israeli wrote: »
    I happen to know many christian Russians that passed the army with me or worked with me. They are living happily here.
    That's not the impression I got at all. In fact, many Israelis look down on Russians (especially non-Jewish ones'- it's not just 'one or the other' you know, and they're not all automatically Christian). I remember very vividly you being in a room among these 'happy Christians' during army service talking to me on webcam and then you whispered "They're not all Jewish..." like it was something to be ashamed about that you should warn me of. I met another non-Jewish Russian when I was in Israel who said that his life was made very difficult by it and that it's a very big reason why many leave Israel again. Hell, even when I was in Israel there was snobbery from Jews.
    The Israeli wrote: »
    Also, nobody official asks about your religion when you go to army, college or apply for a job. It's a thing that your pals may ask you, but I can't recall a problem with that. Sounds like the problem is not in the society.
    No body official has ever asked me for me religion, and I happen to be an ex Russian and have some of the Russian look, as you know.
    You are very obviously Jewish looking, and my boyfriend is very obviously not Jewish looking. I don't even live in Israel and I can tell a Jew from a non-Jew a mile off. People don't need to ask in the army, they already know for giving holidays and whatnot.
    EDIT: also, as for 'official bodies' asking your religion- it's completely obvious from your tehudat zehut (for everyone else, it's a form of ID were Jews have their 'normal' birthday and 'Jewish' birthday on it-- a way they circumvented the fact that it was found to be illegal when they put down exact religion on everyone's). I got asked if I was Jewish by countless security, staff at the train station and a LOT of Israelis-- for something that apparently doesn't matter, they sure do seem to care a great deal.


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    #116
    Siuin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,659 ✭✭✭Siuin


    The Israeli wrote: »
    (name), what springs your mind right now is your new anti Israeli coat..
    What is my personal life has to do with the life of the people that under the missiles range. Should I suffer like them too to have the right to speak for them?
    Your logic is out of the world.
    I don't want any missiles being fired on Israel at any time, anywhere. Too much to ask for?
    "Oh dear... those tinny rockets? they are barely mosquitoes"

    You don't take into account the Fedaiun and some other fellow murderers.
    What for were the arabs fighting back then?
    I can dive in into your examples and explain how was it and not just throw names. But tell me - were they your answer to the arabic anti Israeli actions to the time before 67? Like they had to fight because that they Israelis massacred them?

    So accordingly to you, if we retreat to 67, things will be alright?
    What else should we do?

    How do you explain the raging violence each time Israel goes on peace talks? How should IDF deal with that? (80 missiles a day, suicide bombers..)
    I was by no means saying that the rockets were nothing- however, in comparison to the damage that Israel creates in areas such as Gaza in a matter of days, they bear absolutely no comparison.

    You constantly try to deflect the blame back to the Arabs, and yet don't acknowledge the wrongs of Israel- major reason why people here are getting so frustrated with your posts.

    The actions of Israel were far more brutal and on a much larger scale than the Palestinians at that time. They were fighting for their land, which was being systematically stolen from them by new immigrants.
    DO tell me 'how was it' in my examples. Brilliant- he's going to justify massacres now. Tell me about it.

    Yes you should retreat to the '67 borders, and this whole process of aliyah (ie bringing rich American Zionists to Israel because they're Jews while the actual native inhabitants are denied entry) should be completely abolished.

    There is violence from both sides during peace talks because people are frustrated. Oh please, there hasn't been a suicide bomber in years since Hamas declared that they would stop, and they did. 80 missiles a day? Would you like to provide proof of that? Because statistics from 2010 are showing that it's more in the region of 30 per WEEK (and that's from a pro-Israel source, so no doubt exaggerated) http://cifwatch.com/2010/12/25/how-many-enemy-rockets-were-fired-into-your-country-this-week/


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    #117
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,861 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    The Israeli wrote: »
    We should protect our borders and not compromise before terror.

    Would you like to talk about the terrorist activities of the Haganah and Irgun?


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    #118
    ejmaztec
    Registered Users Posts: 24,019 ✭✭✭✭ejmaztec


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Would you like to talk about the terrorist activities of the Haganah and Irgun?


    Like this one:

    King David Hotel bombing

    The explosion occurred at 12:37. It caused the collapse of the western half of the southern wing of the hotel. Soon after the explosion, rescuers from the Royal Engineers arrived with heavy lifting equipment. Later that night, the sappers were formed into three groups, with each working an eight hour shift. The rescue operation lasted for the next three days and 2,000 lorry loads of rubble was removed. From the wreckage and rubble the rescuers managed to extract six survivors. The last to be found was D. C. Thompson, 24 hours after the building had collapsed. He appeared to be more or less unhurt, but later died due to shock.
    91 people were killed, most of them being staff of the hotel or Secretariat: 21 were first-rank government officials; 49 were second-rank clerks, typists and messengers, junior members of the Secretariat, employees of the hotel and canteen workers; 13 were soldiers; 3 policemen; and 5 were members of the public. By nationality, there were 41 Arabs, 28 British citizens, 17 Palestinian Jews, 2 Armenians, 1 Russian, 1 Greek and 1 Egyptian. 46 people were injured. Some of the deaths and injuries occurred in the road outside the hotel and in adjacent buildings. No identifiable traces were found of thirteen of those killed. One of the dead was Yulius Jacobs, an Irgun sympathizer

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing


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    #119
    Zebra3
    Registered Users Posts: 13,861 ✭✭✭✭Zebra3


    And the ethnic cleansing and lebensraum policy continues.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/05/israel-forcibly-remove-bedouin-west-bank


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    #120
    RichieC
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,333 ✭✭✭RichieC


    Zebra3 wrote: »
    Would you like to talk about the terrorist activities of the Haganah and Irgun?

    They were good terrorists!!11


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    #121
    Chuck Stone
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,030 ✭✭✭✭Chuck Stone


    People should really forget about a return to the 1967 borders.

    That is not going to happen.


This discussion has been closed.
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